Sencore LC102 & LC103 Capacitor & Inductor Analyzer

[HighVoltage]

This thread is about the Sencore LC102 and LC103 Capacitor & Inductor Analyzer





Attached are the LC102 and LC103 datasheets

[cahillsr]

I have one needs repair. Everything seems to  work execpt ESR and leads won't zero on open. I am in NH USA

[HighVoltage]

I have found a broken Sencore LC103 instead and bought it.
Might be a good repair thread.

[coromonadalix]

Just bought one too, for a very low price, (never tough it would be best offer accepted loll)  clean casing, nothing broke,  no xformer no test probes. 
Luckily i have a matcing xformer with the right plug who will fit nicely, and at my company we have very good Belden rf cables who could work.

The zeroing problems are known,  you have a white relay who oxidize over time, some had sucess with deoxit spray,  but opening the relay is tricky, and you have to be careful not to contaminate the inside with debris.

You have the test plug with the integrated fuse who get loose some times

And some had problems with the small black reed relays, they get stuck or dont operate properly

And in the manual you have a section for the specs or failures when zeroing,  impedances values  etc..  and use an 93-96 ohm low capacitance cable ...


LINK :  Sencore LC-102 Cable 'zeroing' issue and 'fix'
https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=286666

Some link here :
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sencore-lc102-cap-analyzer/
Replies #20 and 21  are interesting

[HighVoltage]

Nice, thanks for the info
I am looking forward to get my ReZolver !

[Sencoretech]

Nice, thanks for the info
I am looking forward to get my ReZolver !

Having worked on both the 102 and the 103 for a decade as my full time job I can tell you the 102 will be easier to fix in the field vs the 103.  I'm hoping you find it with no major issues.   If you need some help troubling shooting I'm more then willing to help, but PM me as I don't check these forums often.

[HighVoltage]

Thank you,

The LC103 is on its way and I hope it has not too many issues.
The seller claimed it needs calibration, so I am not sure if the label is expired or if it has an issue.

[coromonadalix]

Received my lc102, i think i've scored big,  all  zeroing / open test leads works,  all coils and caps ive tested seems fine

The only thing i have to figure out is : the selected output voltage, is it a pulsed voltage to the selected value, or it is continuous when i push the test button ??

I have the right power supply plug,  but an leader 12vac xformer instead of an dc one ........  unless i hack a rectification in it ??

[coromonadalix]

Tks mr.fabe

Checked the bnc fuse contacts just in case, i think it was never unscrewed ?

Opened the casing,  never touched or repaired, all seems fine, managed to supply it thru an computer fan connector on the 3 pins psu  dc in / battery in connector .....  12vdc  simulated battery works fine but it wont start on the 3 pins dc plug, it need at least 15 - 18vdc to start.

Found an 2 feet bnc to 3.5 mm already made cable   (dont know its use or how i got it 10 years ago ??,  it zero and open fine  yepeeee loll   test at 6.5 pf ?? gonna add an 3.5mm female plug with 2  clip connectors, i'll sse if it accepts them

And find an 12vdc lead acid battery of the same size ??

This one has different / newer reed relays,  they are "metallic" enclosed ??  from American Relay

[HighVoltage]

Received my lc102, i think i've scored big, 

I got my LC103 today as well and it works like a charm.
It is by far the best capacitor tester I have seen.

In leakage test mode, it applies up to 1000 Volts DC directly to the pins of the cap.

I had a DMM in parallel to the cap to watch the voltage and a good cap was detected as bad because of the 10 MOhm of the DMM.

Over the years I had collected lots of bad electrolytic and also bad film capacitors.
And the LC103 detected all failure modes perfectly.

I will post pictures soon.

What a great instrument, highly recommended!
May be we should move this thread to the Test Equipment section.

[mr.fabe]

Tks mr.fabe

Checked the bnc fuse contacts just in case, i think it was never unscrewed ?

Opened the casing,  never touched or repaired, all seems fine, managed to supply it thru an computer fan connector on the 3 pins psu  dc in / battery in connector .....  12vdc  simulated battery works fine but it wont start on the 3 pins dc plug, it need at least 15 - 18vdc to start.

Found an 2 feet bnc to 3.5 mm already made cable   (dont know its use or how i got it 10 years ago ??,  it zero and open fine  yepeeee loll   test at 6.5 pf ?? gonna add an 3.5mm female plug with 2  clip connectors, i'll sse if it accepts them

And find an 12vdc lead acid battery of the same size ??

This one has different / newer reed relays,  they are "metallic" enclosed ??  from American Relay

BNC fuse connector causes a lot of issues with the Sencores that use them.  Poor contact affects the lead zeroing.

The power plug requires at least 18 VDC.  You can power the unit with lower voltage but it will shutdown on leakage tests depending on the test voltage used.

Cables used for test leads are the RG62 / 93 ohm stranded core similar to the Belkin 8255 but a little softer.  Some LC units can zero out with RG58 but have issues with lower cap readings.

Powersonic batteries work with clip with adapter plug. 

[HighVoltage]

Powersonic batteries work with clip with adapter plug.

Interesting,
Do you have a link to that battery?

I see some batteries on ebay for around 70 US$
Are they worth it?

[GEOelectronics]

I've had the LC103 since it first came out, now they cost more used than new back then, wish I had bought a spare! L+C but not R specifically. Be careful at the HV settings, they mean business. Blew out one GR polyethylene decade cap during testing- egad, IET does not sell individual caps but glad to sell an individual  decade switch- at a price.

This is my first capacitor meter that does a lead test first, shorted and open, then subtracts the measured capacitance from the device under test measurements. Sencore was high end for the service technician's workbench, still have several of there scopes in service.

Still hanging on to the old bridges and meters out of nostalgia, but will probably start selling them to make space pretty soon, including some ESI universal impedance racks.

The 34470A does a lot of things better, but not everything. ACAL every day, sometimes several times, it does drift with temperature. Using 34470A to test 1G Ohm resistors overnight has given me renewed confidence in my ESI Precision Resistance Measurement system for high R values, it comes really close and it only takes 30 seconds. That rack is a keeper.

George Dowell

[mr.fabe]

Powersonic batteries work with clip with adapter plug.

Interesting,
Do you have a link to that battery?

I see some batteries on ebay for around 70 US$
Are they worth it?

Not worth it. 
Powersonic PS-1223 2.3 Amp Hr works for my LC103
I'll have to check for the links...

[coromonadalix]

battery specs: 12vdc at 2.3 amps
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2694/4298/files/PS-1223_SPEC_SHEET.pdf?16089243122879519379

Length:
 7.17" (182mm)   
Width:
 0.94" (24mm)   
Height:
 2.40" (61mm)   

They ressemble old portable camera and camcorder pack ??  Around   55$  CAD  in my country

[mr.fabe]

Here's a pic of the battery and clip..  I think I paid around $24 USD  for the battery and $5 for the clip.

[HighVoltage]

I've had the LC103 since it first came out, now they cost more used than new back then, wish I had bought a spare!

Good idea.
I think I will buy a second LC103, if I find another one for a good price.
One quote I got from a used equipment seller was US$ 7200
It is totally crazy, how much some instruments have increased in price over the years.

[Zucca]

I was thinking my Agilent 4263B was enough to test L or C components...
Why there is always a new toy to buy?

[BU508A]

I was thinking my Agilent 4263B was enough to test L or C components...
Why there is always a new toy to buy?

This question will be answered here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/

 

[coromonadalix]

I will upload to K04BB  website the joint together multi part pages for the boards, took few hours to do

The 1000 board,  already made by someone

Made by me
The block diagram
The 2000 and 3000 board   

Around 17 megs each,  had to patch  ic16 ic17  and ic26 on the 2000 "Mcu" board, no manual around the web has this section correctly scanned ??

Hope it help

Copied in the test instruments,  until someone complain or the admins remove it ?

[coromonadalix]

Uploaded the LC102 calibration procedures at K04BB too

[philexile]

Hello,

I recently purchased an Sencore LC103 and I'm waiting for it to be delivered. It will be arriving without a power supply and I'm having problems identifying the 3-prong power jack on the rear of the unit. Does anyone know the name of this connector? I don't think that it is proprietary to Sencore, but I could be wrong.

Should I instead ignore that and go through the 12v battery connector? If so, what sort of molex connector is that?

Also, I've attached the calibration procedure PDF for the LC103. It appears to require specific software and hardware. You'll see mention of Final Cal Test program, final test box, ringer test box, ringer cal box, final test box, large inductance box, and high cap box. There is also mention of a Standards book "on the bench."

Does anyone have access to the items noted above or performed a calibration?

Thank you

[HighVoltage]

I just took my LC103 apart for the first time but it is difficult to get to the connector on the inside.
It would require to remove the top or bottom PCB

Here are some tear down pictures.

I do not know the manufacturer of that 3 pic connector

[HighVoltage]

More pictures

[mr.fabe]

I do not know the manufacturer of that 3 pic connector

I don't know the manufacturer but the connector type is a Mini-IEC (ACL117) that sells for $7.95 AUS.

https://www.wagneronline.com.au/mini-iec-to-bare-wire/ac-power-leads-iec/power-240vac/power-lighting/acl117-47410/969715/pd/

You should probably ask the sysop move this topic to test equipment or start a fresh thread....

[coromonadalix]

Managed to get the Sencore IB78 RS232 interface  for a premium price

Gonna try to make a schematic for it,  the eeproms dump now exists,  will compare to mine when i'll have it ...

A member here pigrew is trying to simplify the design for his usage, dont know if it'l get public

I'll try to do the same on slightly older tech ??  5v i/o fpga / cpld ...  but i'm rusty

Tested my lc102 so far, i had the supply cord from an leader ac xformer,  made a new dc supply for it,   works fine, lc102 seems pretty spot on,  cant find any calibration service near me to do a cal of this unit

[HighVoltage]

You should probably ask the sysop move this topic to test equipment or start a fresh thread....

Requested, may be an admin will notice.

[mr.fabe]

Tested my lc102 so far, i had the supply cord from an leader ac xformer,  made a new dc supply for it,   works fine, lc102 seems pretty spot on,  cant find any calibration service near me to do a cal of this unit

If the readings are pretty close, I wouldn't adjust it unless you absolutely have to.  You have a LC102 and can perform the calibration yourself since the unit has variable pots.  Much similar to the LC53, LC75, LC101 type units.  I wish the LC103 had that option since calibration was quoted at $500-$600 USD.  Pretty ridiculous pricing for a non-Lab type piece of equipment...

[coromonadalix]

The lc102 need a few  parts for calibrating it myself

I have a hard time to find 0.25% precision caps and some coils values in Canada

You need:

caps
1500pf
1.2uf
500uf

coils
20uh
80uh
800uh
8mh
60mh
80mh
800mh
2 henry
8 henry

res  not wire wounded type   not too difficult to find
1 ohm
15 ohms
20 ohms
150 ohms
250 ohms
1,5K ohms
50k ohms

[mr.fabe]

Here's a pic of the battery and clip..  I think I paid around $24 USD  for the battery and $5 for the clip.

(Attachment Link)

Sorry about the delay on the battery clip information...

The battery clip I purchased was from DigiKey.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/mpd-memory-protection-devices/ZA5350-B/ZA5350-B-ND/124921

[HighVoltage]

The lc102 need a few  parts for calibrating it myself

I have a hard time to find 0.25% precision caps and some coils values in Canada

The caps and inductors should also be easy to get.
Let me see what I can find in my bins.

I will use my Philips / Fluke PM6306 to select the values of caps and inductors.

[Xenawise]

@HighVoltage:

Hello, looks like you have a first production version of you PCB's (Version "B"). I recently repaired this version LC103 (it would fail the "OPEN" test but complete the "SHORT" test - turns out it was one of the SOT-23 2N3906 - Q13 - transistors in the low current source circuit. The transistor is completely open, all leads! Not sure what happened to it, there are no physical signs of failure either like too much current blew a chunk out of the case or something. It looks "normal" just like it's sister (it is connected in a darlington pair). Took quite a while to find this as well, I would say I have over a week into troubleshooting alone and since I have two LC103's now I could do some part swapping to help with the process.

In any case, I see that your EPROM is version 1.53! I have a Version "C" LC103 as well (I have two of them and actually three LC102's, one of them I need the LCD displays for as they got cracked during some shipping damage) and it has version 1.41 of firmware. Perhaps you could pull the EPROM and read it and post up the resulting BIN file? I would love to update to the latest firmware, although I wonder if the calibration of the unit is somehow tied the version of firmware (highly likely) so it might just be better to stick with whatever EPROM shipping in the unit to maintain the calibration. My Version "B" LC103 has firmware version 1.31. I have swapped the 1.41 firmware chip into the Version "B" and it does work, and your pictures show you have a Version "B" unit with version 1.53 firmware. Maybe it was sent in for repair or calibration and Sencore updated the firmware during the repair. As for Version "A" models, I don't think they were sold and were probably the last of the pre-production units. I believe Version "B" PCB's were the first production runs. My Version "C" unit does not have any of the bodges that the Version "B" PCB's have, and the power supply unit has some significant changes as well.

In any case, have fun with your LC103! They will only rise in value as time goes on I predict, unless some manufacturer comes up with something that can replace it which I doubt will ever happen.

Regards,

Xenawise

[coromonadalix]

A 20 farad or 20 henry lcr seems improbable, with an 1kv leak test ?? more improbable ?  seen tons of models up to  100,000uf  seen nothing in recent models higher or equal to the lc102, lc103  can offer ??

I can be wrong

[HighVoltage]

@Xenawise
Very interesting, thanks.

OK, I will get the EPROM version 1.53 read out.

Based on your facts, it really seems that my unit was repaired at a later time and the new FW installed.

[syau]

Scored a LC102, unable to zero on short, other capacitor measurement work except the ESR which give -ve 

Managed to open up the cover on the big white relay, cleaned the contact with deoxit, also did so with the adjacent one. Still fail when I do zero on short. Surprising, it show short when I shorted the lead during capacitor measurement.

Need to do some trouble shooting on the ESR circuit.

[coromonadalix]

@syau   does it says  error 7 ??  do you have an original test cable ? 


With a cable i had for years :  i've made the open short tests, they are okay, but if i add some tests clips to complete the cable  it doesn't pass the open test, but pass the short test  ... i have to get the correct impedance vs the cable capacitance ...

You have explications in the user manual for the errors test(s)

[syau]

It show error 4 during short cal. I did bypassed the input coax and directly shorting the input to the pcb (the one has 1 thin white wire and 3 thick red) with the same result. (the white go to the shield, center red go the the coaxial center, the right red go to the coaxial center after the fuse)

Tried to remove the fuse (by turning bnc anti-clockwise) but unable to do so, looks like the previous owner turn it too hard in order the secure a good contact 

No error 7 during esr measurement, only give -ve which keep changing

Note: The test lead I am using is not original.

[Johnny10]

Since we started repairing these Sencore units on the EEV Blog Forum the price has gone way up!

I repaired a number of these units a few years back.
I did buy parted out units etc. from this eBay seller.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SENCORE-LC103-LC102-LC101-LC77-LC76-LC75-LC53-TEST-LEADS-SET-OF-THREE-NEW/113767939522?hash=item1a7d18fdc2:g:69QAAOSwhURZgj8w

All my units Zero, open and short, with a BNC adapter and regular clip cables.
When they don't zero it takes a while to track down the exact cause,  i.e. BNC Fuse Holder, Relays...
The relays were available on eBay also. I bought a few of the black ones from someone mismatching manufacturer name. They had 50 or so but that was a few years ago.

I should look that up again.

[coromonadalix]

As Johny10 wrote

I did all the checkups  for the mta crimp connectors, some claimed the wire cut in the connector,   unscrewed the bnc fuse, it was tighten very well, i put an bnc connector and turned slowly counterclockwise with a pair of pliers, done every checkups i could do for oxydation on the 2 big relays and the bnc test plug.

With the calibration procedures i re-checked every voltages in the lc102, they were almost perfect for its age ?   touched nothing else.

Tested the open and short tests, everything went fine.

Sencore LC-102 Cable 'zeroing' issue and 'fix'   mostly the error 7
https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=286666

Normally the test leads are made with an low capacitance cable rg-62u


@syau    Your error4   Value beyond zeroing limits, see page 18 of the user manual

It simply could be your tests leads are not accepted by the lc102


Just checked my tests leads, they are slightly over 1800 pf,  damn loll         short pass,  open fail 
They are coaxial, but no specs written

[syau]

I suspect that the relay L1 failed to close during ESR and Short Zero measurement and will test it out later today. In the mean time, I ordered several 5VDC reed relay from RS (diff pin out) but better spec, which should be delivered within 3 days.

Testing has been done on the P3 connector so it ruled out the test lead issue.

By the way, any one know the source of the fused bnc jack ?

[HighVoltage]

Since we started repairing these Sencore units on the EEV Blog Forum the price has gone way up!

It is really crazy, how much they have increase since this thread is open!
For LC102 and LC103

I just got a quote from a company for a LC103 in good condition for US$ 4800 !

[Mr. Scram]

It is really crazy, how much they have increase since this thread is open!
For LC102 and LC103

I just got a quote from a company for a LC103 in good condition for US$ 4800 !

Such is the Eevblog. The prices will come down again when the initial hype blows over though.

[BU508A]

I just got a quote from a company for a LC103 in good condition for US$ 4800 !

I hope, you've showed them this:

[HighVoltage]

I hope, you've showed them this:

Yup!

I am glad I have a good working LC103, that I got for a good price. I might buy a LC102, once the prices have come down again.
No hurry! 

In regards to open and short compensation, I have tried a normal 50 Ohm BNC cable and it would not confirm the open compensation. So it seems Sencore has limited this to special cables.
I will try a few other cables soon.

[syau]

I suspect that the relay L1 failed to close during ESR and Short Zero measurement and will test it out later today. In the mean time, I ordered several 5VDC reed relay from RS (diff pin out) but better spec, which should be delivered within 3 days.

Testing has been done on the P3 connector so it ruled out the test lead issue.

By the way, any one know the source of the fused bnc jack ?

Did an in circuit testing of L1, it works but still can’t cal short nor ESR (start with -1990 displayed on the LCD and the value slowly increase up to -9.0 ohm) 

Anybody has an idea how the ESR circuit works ? One member did mentioned that it use the ESR circuit to do a cal short.

[Johnny10]

That zero issue fix on Antique Radio was a bit off in technique.
I first cut into the top of relay cover as shown in pics.
Yet afterwards, I found I could simply squeeze rectangular cover and it unlocked and whole cover came off without having cut on top that then needed to be fixed.

[mr.fabe]

In regards to open and short compensation, I have tried a normal 50 Ohm BNC cable and it would not confirm the open compensation. So it seems Sencore has limited this to special cables.
I will try a few other cables soon.

With the LC53, LC75, LC101 (units that I've owned), RG62 cables were needed to be able to zero out the meter.
With my LC103, I have no trouble with open and close compensation with any of the cables I normally use.  I use the Sencore 39G219, Fluke tweezers, mini 7" BNC to clip hook leads, and sometimes a set of needle probes for in-circuit tests.

Per the LC103 Manual for Value Beyond Zeroing Limit...

An open (greater than 20kohms) or shorted (less than 1 ohm) test lead will cause the display to show "OPEN" or "SHORT"
Possible Causes:
1. The capacitance at the TEST LEAD input is greater than 1800pF
2. The inductance at the TEST LEAD input is greater than 18uH
3. The resistance at the TEST LEAD input is greater than 5 ohms

[syau]

Replaced L1 & L9, no improvement 

Will try to replaced the 4011 & 4066 in the ESR circuitry.

[volvo_nut_v70]

Hello;

I am looking for a new or used LC102 membrane keyboard to repair the one I have. One of the "button" is worn straight through....

Thanks!

[HighVoltage]

Hello;

I am looking for a new or used LC102 membrane keyboard to repair the one I have. One of the "button" is worn straight through....

Thanks!

Every once in a while, they show up on ebay USA but right now I do not see one.
You probably have to have some patience.
 

[mr.fabe]

The lc102 need a few  parts for calibrating it myself

I have a hard time to find 0.25% precision caps and some coils values in Canada

You really can get by with using higher (>0.25%) components for calibrating the unit.  Verify the component values on a calibrated LCR and use those values to adjust the trimmers for each of the respective ranges.  Just make sure you use the original 39G219 or low capacitance cable and perform the lead zero operation before making your adjustments.

[Xenawise]

@Xenawise
Very interesting, thanks.

OK, I will get the EPROM version 1.53 read out.

Based on your facts, it really seems that my unit was repaired at a later time and the new FW installed.

Any progress on getting that EPROM read and posted? Thanks! 

Regards,

Xenawise

[mr.fabe]

@Xenawise
Very interesting, thanks.

OK, I will get the EPROM version 1.53 read out.

Based on your facts, it really seems that my unit was repaired at a later time and the new FW installed.

Any progress on getting that EPROM read and posted? Thanks! 

Regards,

Xenawise

Would you be able to read the memory chip at U21 (24LC16B) off one of your boards and post it?  I believe this chip may hold the calibration settings for the LC103 and hope to get it decoded.  Thanks!

[coromonadalix]

Bought two already hand made cables  on Ebay,  i can zero my test cable but do an open test,   found many coils and capacitors parts to do some tests, the lc102 seems to be on par with them,   my job ordered an DE-5000, ill do more cross checks between the two.

EDIT August 30
Received the cables, they are worth the price,  perfect  open and zero calibration

[Xenawise]

Would you be able to read the memory chip at U21 (24LC16B) off one of your boards and post it?  I believe this chip may hold the calibration settings for the LC103 and hope to get it decoded.  Thanks!

I will see about desolding that chip and reading it out and posting it.

Speaking of posting, here are my BIN files (rename to .BIN from .TXT)

Regards,

Xenawise

[volvo_nut_v70]

Hello;

Would any one have a new or used membrane keyboard for a LC102?

[philexile]

Hello,

I acquired a Sencore LC103 from an auction this past summer. Luckily, it seems to work well. At the time, I did some digging for any information I could about the unit and, over time, came up with some interesting materials....

1. Complete BOM files for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

2. Calibration procedures for  LC77, LC102, and LC103

3. Schematics and parts lists for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

4. Common fix list for the LC103

5. Sencore's "FinalCal" calibration software for the LC103


I'm assuming that item 5 will interest most people here. 

The FinalCal software is complete (please see the attached pictures of the software up and running on my old XP laptop) and even includes the source code in a separate folder. There are some things to figure out though, see below:

• You will see in the calibration procedure instructions, included with the images, that there are a few separate items called for: final test box, cal disk (more on this in the next point), ringer test box, and ringer cal box. There is also a note towards the end instructing the operator to bring the unit to the z-meter bench in "Service."

• When opening the software, there is a prompt to insert the floppy disk NOW. This is also noted in step 4 of the calibration procedure document – but there it is called "cal disk" and not floppy. I believe this floppy would have included the two "cal" files called for in step 6: "P071_03.cal" and "P72_10.cal" – thankfully, I have these files as well. I haven't been able to try to include them on a floppy disk however as I don't have any floppies currently!

• There is an error shown in the pictures, related to LabVIEW. I'm not sure what this means. It is possible that even though my LC103 was hooked up via the RS232 port, it wasn't communicating properly. I didn't troubleshoot this.

• I am able to navigate to the two cal files, but I haven't run any of the tests or calibrations, since I'm still trying to figure this out – and I'm still missing essential parts of the calibration – the external "boxes."

So where do I go from here? I'm hoping that some of you can help! I think the biggest obstacles will be finding or reproducing the external "boxes" as I assume they were Sencore's proprietary units: final test box, ringer test box, and ringer cal box. That said –

• Maybe a former Sencore tech can help out here?
• Perhaps some information can be gleemed from the source code?

In any case, with this software, I think we are much closer to having these units be serviceable by their owners -- as it should be in 2020!

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Best Regards

[HighVoltage]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

How can I get a copy of all your files.
I always have a old XP laptop in the lab for such old software.
Will be very interesting to try.
 

[coromonadalix]

Same here   i would like the files

[mr.fabe]

I would appreciate all the files as well.

My LC103 is the only one that I have not been able to do a calibration on.  I was going to try a backdoor method by comparing chips and tweaking the differences but having the software will definitely be useful.

Has the latest LC103 ROM been posted yet?  I think it is 1.53...

[NY2KW]

You can run a 32b Win XP as a virtual machine in any Windows 10 environment.  Just need to download a copy of XP with SP3 and easy to find product keys by Google.

Jerry

[HighVoltage]

You can run a 32b Win XP as a virtual machine in any Windows 10 environment.  Just need to download a copy of XP with SP3 and easy to find product keys by Google.

Jerry

This does work for a few applications.

... I have an old Fluke Software that was made for Win98 and works perfectly
within XP, but I can not get it to run on a virtual XP machine.
Therefore I am keeping a few pure XP machines around in the lab.

So, I am looking forward testing this LC103 software on XP.

[Sencoretech]

As the last Sencore Tech to officially service these let me answer these questions:

First of the error you are getting is because you are missing the cal text file as you stated.  This contains your expected software revisions as well as the expected vs actual values of your test fixtures.  With out this file the calibration will not be accurate.  I do think it'll run but it'll go to the default values and whatever it pushes to your LC103 might be in the ball park but probably out of the tolerance you'll want.

What you need for cal it a cap decade box, inductance decade box, some coils for calibrating the ringer(this is manual and rarely is ever out of spec) and a 20 ohm resistor for the ESR calibration.  What you can't get is the proprietary current source and leakage current box.  I know sencore had two of them made and I've only briefly looked at them, they are a series of relays/caps/resistors with an IEEE port to talk to the PC to make calibration partially automated.   

All the data is sent to the LC103 via the RS232 port on the back,  if you look at the menu you will notice it erases all the cal data as one of the first sets so I would not run this since you'll never be able calibrate the current source.

I haven't worked at Sencore in 3+ years so I don't know if any of the old set up still exists, I'm guessing not but it was there when I was walked out the door so maybe they still have it stuff in storage somewhere.

Sorry for not having better info for you.

Hello,

I acquired a Sencore LC103 from an auction this past summer. Luckily, it seems to work well. At the time, I did some digging for any information I could about the unit and, over time, came up with some interesting materials....

1. Complete BOM files for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

2. Calibration procedures for  LC77, LC102, and LC103

3. Schematics and parts lists for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

4. Common fix list for the LC103

5. Sencore's "FinalCal" calibration software for the LC103


I'm assuming that item 5 will interest most people here. 

The FinalCal software is complete (please see the attached pictures of the software up and running on my old XP laptop) and even includes the source code in a separate folder. There are some things to figure out though, see below:

• You will see in the calibration procedure instructions, included with the images, that there are a few separate items called for: final test box, cal disk (more on this in the next point), ringer test box, and ringer cal box. There is also a note towards the end instructing the operator to bring the unit to the z-meter bench in "Service."

• When opening the software, there is a prompt to insert the floppy disk NOW. This is also noted in step 4 of the calibration procedure document – but there it is called "cal disk" and not floppy. I believe this floppy would have included the two "cal" files called for in step 6: "P071_03.cal" and "P72_10.cal" – thankfully, I have these files as well. I haven't been able to try to include them on a floppy disk however as I don't have any floppies currently!

• There is an error shown in the pictures, related to LabVIEW. I'm not sure what this means. It is possible that even though my LC103 was hooked up via the RS232 port, it wasn't communicating properly. I didn't troubleshoot this.

• I am able to navigate to the two cal files, but I haven't run any of the tests or calibrations, since I'm still trying to figure this out – and I'm still missing essential parts of the calibration – the external "boxes."

So where do I go from here? I'm hoping that some of you can help! I think the biggest obstacles will be finding or reproducing the external "boxes" as I assume they were Sencore's proprietary units: final test box, ringer test box, and ringer cal box. That said –

• Maybe a former Sencore tech can help out here?
• Perhaps some information can be gleemed from the source code?

In any case, with this software, I think we are much closer to having these units be serviceable by their owners -- as it should be in 2020!

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Best Regards

[philexile]

Hi Sencoretech,

Thank you for getting back to me! I have a few followup questions, please see below –

First of the error you are getting is because you are missing the cal text file as you stated. This contains your expected software revisions as well as the expected vs actual values of your test fixtures. Without this file the calibration will not be accurate.

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear: I actually do have the two cal text files available – P071_03.cal and P72_10.cal – I assume that I just have to put these on a floppy, and have it inserted to avoid the error? These two files were included with the software.

What you need for cal is a cap decade box, inductance decade box, some coils for calibrating the ringer (this is manual and rarely is ever out of spec) and a 20-ohm resistor for the ESR calibration.

So the various items you've noted here would be able to be substituted for the "final test box" called for in the LC103 calibration procedure?

Also, would these boxes be okay to use:

cap decade box: Extech 380405
inductance decade box: Electronix Express Inductance Decade Box

What you can't get is the proprietary current source and leakage current box. I know Sencore had two of them made and I've only briefly looked at them, they are a series of relays/caps/resistors with an IEEE port to talk to the PC to make calibration partially automated.

Do you know what the proprietary current source and leakage current box was called? If a schematic exists, maybe it can be recreated – unless that would be cost-prohibitive.

All the data is sent to the LC103 via the RS232 port on the back, if you look at the menu you will notice it erases all the cal data as one of the first sets so I would not run this since you'll never be able to calibrate the current source.

I assume you mean the "calibration reset" menu item? Currently, my unit works well, and I don't plan on running this before being sure I have all the information to safely do so.

From what you've said here, I'm hoping that we can use this software to run some of the calibrations, such as capacitance and inductance, with the right substitute equipment.

I haven't worked at Sencore in 3+ years so I don't know if any of the old set up still exists, I'm guessing not but it was there when I was walked out the door so maybe they still have it stuff in storage somewhere.

Do you have any contacts that are still with the company who'd be willing to share? From what I understand, Sencore has moved on completely from the test equipment field – so this information would be of little value to them I assume.

Thanks again!

[Sencoretech]

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear: I actually do have the two cal text files available – P071_03.cal and P72_10.cal – I assume that I just have to put these on a floppy, and have it inserted to avoid the error? These two files were included with the software.

Yeah as long as you can get the files on a floppy you should be fine, you probably want to edit them with the values of your test fixtures.

So the various items you've noted here would be able to be substituted for the "final test box" called for in the LC103 calibration procedure?

Also, would these boxes be okay to use:

cap decade box: Extech 380405
inductance decade box: Electronix Express Inductance Decade Box

No the final test box is just the current source/leakage test box, you'll still need it to do those calibrations, you can do the all the others and write the cal stamp w/o it.  What you have should work fine as long as you know it's accurate.  Sencore had some pretty strict standards and we had all out equipment certified by a lab. 

Do you know what the proprietary current source and leakage current box was called? If a schematic exists, maybe it can be recreated – unless that would be cost-prohibitive.

Yeah there was a schematic for it,  I remember looking at it but it was only a paper one.  Chances are it's toast by now. 

Do you have any contacts that are still with the company who'd be willing to share? From what I understand, Sencore has moved on completely from the test equipment field – so this information would be of little value to them I assume.

Thanks again!

There are two people I would talk to, if they are still there Tory Hoteling, I believe he's still in customer support but he use to be the service manager when they still had the service department,  the other would be Ralph Belding, he is/was the Quality Assurance manager and might know where the equipment is.  I would just call the general number and ask for them,  I haven't talked to either of these guys in years but hopefully they'll help you out, but no guarantees.

[philexile]

Hi again,

Yeah as long as you can get the files on a floppy you should be fine, you probably want to edit them with the values of your test fixtures.

Good to know, just for reference, below are the values from my two cal docs – 

P071_03.CAL

201.1E-12
1701.1E-12
0.004E-6
0.018E-6
0.04E-6
0.18E-6
0.4E-6
1.764E-6
3.848E-6
19.610E-6
38.37E-6
172.04E-6
383.0E-6
1715.25E-6

P072_1.cal

8.1288
1.9915
1.49601
0.19871
149.22E-3
19.944E-3
14.951E-3
1.9971E-3
1.4937E-3
198.05E-6
10.31E-6
2.35E-6
78.98E-6
37.15E-6

There are 7 cal ranges.  The values listed above are grouped in two's; the first one is the high cal point and the second is the low cal point.

Actually . . . I wonder if those two documents are what was intended for the floppy disk. Looking at the instructions again, you'll see point #5 says to double click on "LC103 Final Cal" icon. I have a folder here with the following items:

LC103 Cal Data.ini
LC103 configData.nce
LC103 Final Cal.aliases
LC103 Final Cal.ini

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that THIS directory is what should go on the floppy disk, right?

Here are the contents of each of the files:

LC103 Cal Data.ini
[LC103 SW]
ver=1.53

;Capacitors
[C Range0]
200pF (73P71)
low_actual=202.7E-12
1700pF (73P71)
high_actual=1704.0E-12

[C Range1]
0.004uF (73P71)
low_actual=0.004E-6
0.018uF (73P71)
high_actual=0.018E-6

[C Range2]
0.04uF (73P71)
low_actual=0.04E-6
0.18uF (73P71)
high_actual=0.18E-6

[C Range3]
0.4uF (73P71)
low_actual=0.4E-6
1.80uF (74B211)
high_actual=1.765E-6

[C Range4]
4.0uF (74B211)
low_actual=3.849E-6
18.0uF (74B211)
high_actual=19.580E-6

[C Range5]
40.0uF (74B211)
low_actual=38.20E-6
180uF (74B211)
high_actual=171.21E-6

[C Range6]
400uF (74B211)
low_actual=381.04E-6
1800uF (74B211)
high_actual=1709.20E-6

;Inductors
[L Range0]
2.00uH (74A144)
low_actual=2.36E-6
10.0uH (74A144)
high_actual=10.32E-6

[L Range1]
40.0uH (74A144)
low_actual=37.14E-6
80.0uH (74A144)
high_actual=79.00E-6

[L Range2]
200uH (73P72)
low_actual=198.08E-6
1.50mH (73P72)
high_actual=1.4950E-3

[L Range3]
2.00mH (73P72)
low_actual=1.9983E-3
15.0mH (73P72)
high_actual=14.964E-3

[L Range4]
20.0mH (73P72)
low_actual=19.952E-3
150mH (73P72)
high_actual=149.42E-3

[L Range5]
200mH (73P72)
low_actual=0.19894
1.50H (73P72)
high_actual=1.49680

[L Range6]
2.00H (73P72)
low_actual=1.9948
8.00H (73P72)
high_actual=8.1361


LC103 Final Cal.ini

[LC103 Final Cal]
server.app.propertiesEnabled=True
server.ole.enabled=True
server.tcp.serviceName="My Computer/VI Server"
server.vi.propertiesEnabled=True
WebServer.TcpAccess="c+*"
WebServer.ViAccess="+*"
DebugServerEnabled=False
DebugServerWaitOnLaunch=False

No the final test box is just the current source/leakage test box, you'll still need it to do those calibrations, you can do all the others and write the cal stamp w/o it. What you have should work fine as long as you know it's accurate. Sencore had some pretty strict standards and we had all out equipment certified by a lab.

Okay, so without the "final test box" is the source/leakage box and didn't have anything to do with calibrating the capacitance and inductance? Sorry if I'm being dense – but there were so many "boxes" referenced in the calibration procedure! (final test box, ringer test box, large inductance box, ringer cal box)

Yeah there was a schematic for it,  I remember looking at it but it was only a paper one.  Chances are it's toast by now.

I'll dig. 

There are two people I would talk to, if they are still there Tory Hoteling, I believe he's still in customer support but he use to be the service manager when they still had the service department,  the other would be Ralph Belding, he is/was the Quality Assurance manager and might know where the equipment is.  I would just call the general number and ask for them,  I haven't talked to either of these guys in years but hopefully they'll help you out, but no guarantees.

Great, thank you again for all the help!

[philexile]

Hello,

Just a quick update — I spoke to a rep at Sencore and they confirmed that the cap and inductance boxes weren’t exclusive to Sencore. They’re trying to dig up exactly what was used — and additional info on the final cal box.

In the meantime, does anyone have LabView version 3.1 or 5.1 available?

Thanks

[globe_02]

Hi,is this https://www.freesoftwarefiles.com/development/labview-nxg-3-1-free-download/ what you are looking for?
Very large file. 3Gb.

[vaer1977]

Hi to all,
After a few hesitations , I finally decided to buy a LC103 in very good condition.
It has the V1.46 firmware
Here's the dump:

[joeqsmith]

Hello,

Just a quick update — I spoke to a rep at Sencore and they confirmed that the cap and inductance boxes weren’t exclusive to Sencore. They’re trying to dig up exactly what was used — and additional info on the final cal box.

In the meantime, does anyone have LabView version 3.1 or 5.1 available?

Thanks

If you still have something you wanted brought up to a more recent version, feel free to post it here and I can attempt it. 

[Xenawise]

Hello,

I acquired a Sencore LC103 from an auction this past summer. Luckily, it seems to work well. At the time, I did some digging for any information I could about the unit and, over time, came up with some interesting materials....

1. Complete BOM files for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

2. Calibration procedures for  LC77, LC102, and LC103

3. Schematics and parts lists for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

4. Common fix list for the LC103

5. Sencore's "FinalCal" calibration software for the LC103


I'm assuming that item 5 will interest most people here. 

The FinalCal software is complete (please see the attached pictures of the software up and running on my old XP laptop) and even includes the source code in a separate folder. There are some things to figure out though, see below:

• You will see in the calibration procedure instructions, included with the images, that there are a few separate items called for: final test box, cal disk (more on this in the next point), ringer test box, and ringer cal box. There is also a note towards the end instructing the operator to bring the unit to the z-meter bench in "Service."

• When opening the software, there is a prompt to insert the floppy disk NOW. This is also noted in step 4 of the calibration procedure document – but there it is called "cal disk" and not floppy. I believe this floppy would have included the two "cal" files called for in step 6: "P071_03.cal" and "P72_10.cal" – thankfully, I have these files as well. I haven't been able to try to include them on a floppy disk however as I don't have any floppies currently!

• There is an error shown in the pictures, related to LabVIEW. I'm not sure what this means. It is possible that even though my LC103 was hooked up via the RS232 port, it wasn't communicating properly. I didn't troubleshoot this.

• I am able to navigate to the two cal files, but I haven't run any of the tests or calibrations, since I'm still trying to figure this out – and I'm still missing essential parts of the calibration – the external "boxes."

So where do I go from here? I'm hoping that some of you can help! I think the biggest obstacles will be finding or reproducing the external "boxes" as I assume they were Sencore's proprietary units: final test box, ringer test box, and ringer cal box. That said –

• Maybe a former Sencore tech can help out here?
• Perhaps some information can be gleemed from the source code?

In any case, with this software, I think we are much closer to having these units be serviceable by their owners -- as it should be in 2020!

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Best Regards

philexile, where can I get a copy of your software for the LC103 and perhaps any other files you have related to this instrument? Thanks for a reply!

Regards,

Xenawise

[Hugoneus]

Has anyone managed to get the software files?

[HighVoltage]

Has anyone managed to get the software files?

No, unfortunately the files have not been shared.

[mapleLC]

I didn't want to create a new thread so I was glad to find this one

Can someone please help me understand these 2 units by comparing and contrasting them?

I am in the market for one, but can't find a good reference to understand what the differences are.

[HighVoltage]

I think they are very similar in their usage and data.

Main difference is display and keyboard.
My LC103 works extremely well.
Enclosed are the highlights in a LC103 datasheet / brochure.

[HighVoltage]

and ... Shahriar did a nice video on the LC103 a few weeks ago:

[mapleLC]

and ... Shahriar did a nice video on the LC103 a few weeks ago:

I saw that, though there was no mention of the other model or any feature differences.

[HighVoltage]

Feature wise they are the same, as far as I can tell.
The display and the membrane keyboard have been updated significantly on the LC103.

Looking at the picture of the LC102, it seems this one is missing the "In Circuit" testing capability for capacitors and inductors.

[mapleLC]

Is that an option?

[HighVoltage]

Here is the old datasheet of the LC102 for comparison attached.

The "In Circuit" testing was a new feature of the LC103 only. Not an option for the LC102.

Both, the LC102 and the LC103 are sold these days for more than when they were new.
Although I have several capacitor testers, I usually use only the LC103.

[mapleLC]

I doubt they redesigned the entire board for that feature but looking at the 2 boards, they visually look quite different, so I wonder if the entire tool was redesigned between versions.

I wonder if the 102 can be modded?  The in-circuit thing matters to me.

[HighVoltage]

I wonder if the 102 can be modded?  The in-circuit thing matters to me.

I don't think so.
If the "In-Circuit-Testing" is important to you, get the LC103.

[mapleLC]

If anyone has a 103, I am in the market.  Not at stupid ebay prices, but nonetheless in the market.

[jackberg]

I am in search for that software too. Does anybody have it?

[HighVoltage]

The software has not been released to "us", still waiting

[HighVoltage]

My LC103 has the firmware v1.53 installed and I was asked to read it out.
Maybe someone else also likes a copy of it.
So, here it is:

LC103_Firmware_v1.53.zip

[jpaudio]

Hi. I was wondering if someone from members here has a Sencore LC103 for selling. If yes, please send me a PM.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
John

[jpaudio]

Hi. I am interested for a faulty unit also. If someone has one on a shelf unused and forgoten...
Regards,
John

[alm]

How many people would you expect to have suddenly acquired a unit they want to sell since your last message two days ago?

I'd suggest creating your own topic in the Buy & Sell section instead of hijacking this topic.

[jpaudio]

Sorry, I did not want to spoil this topic, I didn't know that there is a special "buy & sell" section either. My apologies. I will post a new thread there.
Regards,
John

[glicos]

I have a Sencore LC102 Capacitor inductor analyzer. Working ok in terms of testing but theres always an annoying buzzer sound inside when i turn it ON. Anyone knows whats the propable cause.
Thanks

[coromonadalix]

could be some coil or xforer oscilations ?

some schematics exists for the 102 ...

[Mike Flosse]

Hello,
Thanks for sharing all that valuable information. How can I get a copy of all your files? I would be very grateful. I have the chance to buy a used old Sencore LC103, but I cannot spend 2000$ If I am not able to calibrate it.
Thanks a lot in advance
Mike

[coromonadalix]

go to ko4bb  website  everything is supposed to be there, search in sencore

http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals


self calibrations    as far as we know is impossible, you need some reference material and the software was not made public,  an eevblog member was supposed to post here


but in the end if you do not need an 1kv  test

you have plenty of bench lcrs  who can do  in serial or parallel tests and wont cost as much as the lc102 or 103, and some can be easily calibrated

Sencore are in a special niche ....  obsolete, still good if you find one in very good shape   but way over priced

[Mike Flosse]

Hello,
Thanks a lot for the prompt answer. I checked carefully on the ko4bb website and I was not able to find the "C103 Final Cal" software to calibrate the LC103. Did any of you ever download that software? Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks again in advance
Mike

[The Real MC]

New member here, 40+ years experience with bench test equipment.  My day job is Systems Engineer with automated test systems.

Last weekend I was browsing a guitar show and found a box of various bench test instruments labeled "make an offer".  Pulled out a Sencore LC-102 thinking "why does this look familiar?"  Included the power supply, test lead (with missing clip), and the test lead adapter (but not the hold down rod).  A capacitor analyzer would be useful on my workbench.  I opened my wallet to the seller that had less than $60 inside - he took $50 for the LC-102.  He says that it does work.

It was later that night that I realized a) what their value is on the market b) the demand for these things, and c) from discussions in this forum that these units have a lot of common malfunctions.  From pictures of other LC-102 units, the panel on mine has yellow aging so it must had seen a lot of sunlight.  As you can see from my website http://www.analoguediehard.com I am not intimidated by instrument restorations.

Soooo... after printing the manual, schematics, patents, tech tips, calibration procedures, circuit descriptions, references in this forum (THANK YOU!), and organizing them all in a three ring notebook, I reviewed the unit operation and prepared to fire it up - expecting the worse.

Power on self test - PASS
Test Lead zero test - PASS
Test Lead short test - PASS
LCD Display test - PASS

Other than the test lead needing a replacement clip, this thing is free of defects! 

I popped the hood - by the datecodes on the ICs and other components, this unit was built in 1996.  So it's a fairly late model.  There's a bunch of jumper wire modifications combined with floating components, I haven't documented them yet. 
Firmware eprom is v17.  Expecting to find eight of the Fairchild relays known to fail, I only found five.

In place of three of the Fairchild relays are American Relay Inc substitutes Z051B300R0A (L4) and Z051A550R0B (L1, L9).  The relays are cylindrical (you're not prying these puppies open!), are axial pin-for-pin direct replacements, and have 1996 datecodes like the rest of the unit.  They show no sign of solder reflow/repair so they must be original from the factory.

Hello...!  Did Sencore identify a more reliable substitute late in the product life?!?

American Relays Inc was acquired by Standex Electronics in 2021.  I tried various search terms to locate any info on the American Relay "Z" series and came up empty.  None of the usual suppliers (Mouser, Digikey) show any available.

One thing I have learned in restorations: if your unit has the 4xxx CMOS ICs made by RCA, replace them with new NS or TI CMOS.  The RCA CMOS of the 70s/80s have a history of rotting substrates due to chemical interactions causing a short to ground, and according to my RCA databook they do NOT have overvoltage protection on the input pins now standard on modern CMOS.

[HighVoltage]

Hello,
Thanks a lot for the prompt answer. I checked carefully on the ko4bb website and I was not able to find the "C103 Final Cal" software to calibrate the LC103. Did any of you ever download that software? Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks again in advance
Mike

That software has not been made available to us.

[HighVoltage]

I opened my wallet to the seller that had less than $60 inside - he took $50 for the LC-102.  He says that it does work.

What a great deal!
I am sure you will enjoy this unit, once you get to know it.