Sencore LC102 & LC103 Capacitor & Inductor Analyzer

[mr.fabe]

The lc102 need a few  parts for calibrating it myself

I have a hard time to find 0.25% precision caps and some coils values in Canada

You really can get by with using higher (>0.25%) components for calibrating the unit.  Verify the component values on a calibrated LCR and use those values to adjust the trimmers for each of the respective ranges.  Just make sure you use the original 39G219 or low capacitance cable and perform the lead zero operation before making your adjustments.

[Xenawise]

@Xenawise
Very interesting, thanks.

OK, I will get the EPROM version 1.53 read out.

Based on your facts, it really seems that my unit was repaired at a later time and the new FW installed.

Any progress on getting that EPROM read and posted? Thanks! 

Regards,

Xenawise

[mr.fabe]

@Xenawise
Very interesting, thanks.

OK, I will get the EPROM version 1.53 read out.

Based on your facts, it really seems that my unit was repaired at a later time and the new FW installed.

Any progress on getting that EPROM read and posted? Thanks! 

Regards,

Xenawise

Would you be able to read the memory chip at U21 (24LC16B) off one of your boards and post it?  I believe this chip may hold the calibration settings for the LC103 and hope to get it decoded.  Thanks!

[coromonadalix]

Bought two already hand made cables  on Ebay,  i can zero my test cable but do an open test,   found many coils and capacitors parts to do some tests, the lc102 seems to be on par with them,   my job ordered an DE-5000, ill do more cross checks between the two.

EDIT August 30
Received the cables, they are worth the price,  perfect  open and zero calibration

[Xenawise]

Would you be able to read the memory chip at U21 (24LC16B) off one of your boards and post it?  I believe this chip may hold the calibration settings for the LC103 and hope to get it decoded.  Thanks!

I will see about desolding that chip and reading it out and posting it.

Speaking of posting, here are my BIN files (rename to .BIN from .TXT)

Regards,

Xenawise

[volvo_nut_v70]

Hello;

Would any one have a new or used membrane keyboard for a LC102?

[philexile]

Hello,

I acquired a Sencore LC103 from an auction this past summer. Luckily, it seems to work well. At the time, I did some digging for any information I could about the unit and, over time, came up with some interesting materials....

1. Complete BOM files for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

2. Calibration procedures for  LC77, LC102, and LC103

3. Schematics and parts lists for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

4. Common fix list for the LC103

5. Sencore's "FinalCal" calibration software for the LC103


I'm assuming that item 5 will interest most people here. 

The FinalCal software is complete (please see the attached pictures of the software up and running on my old XP laptop) and even includes the source code in a separate folder. There are some things to figure out though, see below:

• You will see in the calibration procedure instructions, included with the images, that there are a few separate items called for: final test box, cal disk (more on this in the next point), ringer test box, and ringer cal box. There is also a note towards the end instructing the operator to bring the unit to the z-meter bench in "Service."

• When opening the software, there is a prompt to insert the floppy disk NOW. This is also noted in step 4 of the calibration procedure document – but there it is called "cal disk" and not floppy. I believe this floppy would have included the two "cal" files called for in step 6: "P071_03.cal" and "P72_10.cal" – thankfully, I have these files as well. I haven't been able to try to include them on a floppy disk however as I don't have any floppies currently!

• There is an error shown in the pictures, related to LabVIEW. I'm not sure what this means. It is possible that even though my LC103 was hooked up via the RS232 port, it wasn't communicating properly. I didn't troubleshoot this.

• I am able to navigate to the two cal files, but I haven't run any of the tests or calibrations, since I'm still trying to figure this out – and I'm still missing essential parts of the calibration – the external "boxes."

So where do I go from here? I'm hoping that some of you can help! I think the biggest obstacles will be finding or reproducing the external "boxes" as I assume they were Sencore's proprietary units: final test box, ringer test box, and ringer cal box. That said –

• Maybe a former Sencore tech can help out here?
• Perhaps some information can be gleemed from the source code?

In any case, with this software, I think we are much closer to having these units be serviceable by their owners -- as it should be in 2020!

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Best Regards

[HighVoltage]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

How can I get a copy of all your files.
I always have a old XP laptop in the lab for such old software.
Will be very interesting to try.
 

[coromonadalix]

Same here   i would like the files

[mr.fabe]

I would appreciate all the files as well.

My LC103 is the only one that I have not been able to do a calibration on.  I was going to try a backdoor method by comparing chips and tweaking the differences but having the software will definitely be useful.

Has the latest LC103 ROM been posted yet?  I think it is 1.53...

[NY2KW]

You can run a 32b Win XP as a virtual machine in any Windows 10 environment.  Just need to download a copy of XP with SP3 and easy to find product keys by Google.

Jerry

[HighVoltage]

You can run a 32b Win XP as a virtual machine in any Windows 10 environment.  Just need to download a copy of XP with SP3 and easy to find product keys by Google.

Jerry

This does work for a few applications.

... I have an old Fluke Software that was made for Win98 and works perfectly
within XP, but I can not get it to run on a virtual XP machine.
Therefore I am keeping a few pure XP machines around in the lab.

So, I am looking forward testing this LC103 software on XP.

[Sencoretech]

As the last Sencore Tech to officially service these let me answer these questions:

First of the error you are getting is because you are missing the cal text file as you stated.  This contains your expected software revisions as well as the expected vs actual values of your test fixtures.  With out this file the calibration will not be accurate.  I do think it'll run but it'll go to the default values and whatever it pushes to your LC103 might be in the ball park but probably out of the tolerance you'll want.

What you need for cal it a cap decade box, inductance decade box, some coils for calibrating the ringer(this is manual and rarely is ever out of spec) and a 20 ohm resistor for the ESR calibration.  What you can't get is the proprietary current source and leakage current box.  I know sencore had two of them made and I've only briefly looked at them, they are a series of relays/caps/resistors with an IEEE port to talk to the PC to make calibration partially automated.   

All the data is sent to the LC103 via the RS232 port on the back,  if you look at the menu you will notice it erases all the cal data as one of the first sets so I would not run this since you'll never be able calibrate the current source.

I haven't worked at Sencore in 3+ years so I don't know if any of the old set up still exists, I'm guessing not but it was there when I was walked out the door so maybe they still have it stuff in storage somewhere.

Sorry for not having better info for you.

Hello,

I acquired a Sencore LC103 from an auction this past summer. Luckily, it seems to work well. At the time, I did some digging for any information I could about the unit and, over time, came up with some interesting materials....

1. Complete BOM files for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

2. Calibration procedures for  LC77, LC102, and LC103

3. Schematics and parts lists for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

4. Common fix list for the LC103

5. Sencore's "FinalCal" calibration software for the LC103


I'm assuming that item 5 will interest most people here. 

The FinalCal software is complete (please see the attached pictures of the software up and running on my old XP laptop) and even includes the source code in a separate folder. There are some things to figure out though, see below:

• You will see in the calibration procedure instructions, included with the images, that there are a few separate items called for: final test box, cal disk (more on this in the next point), ringer test box, and ringer cal box. There is also a note towards the end instructing the operator to bring the unit to the z-meter bench in "Service."

• When opening the software, there is a prompt to insert the floppy disk NOW. This is also noted in step 4 of the calibration procedure document – but there it is called "cal disk" and not floppy. I believe this floppy would have included the two "cal" files called for in step 6: "P071_03.cal" and "P72_10.cal" – thankfully, I have these files as well. I haven't been able to try to include them on a floppy disk however as I don't have any floppies currently!

• There is an error shown in the pictures, related to LabVIEW. I'm not sure what this means. It is possible that even though my LC103 was hooked up via the RS232 port, it wasn't communicating properly. I didn't troubleshoot this.

• I am able to navigate to the two cal files, but I haven't run any of the tests or calibrations, since I'm still trying to figure this out – and I'm still missing essential parts of the calibration – the external "boxes."

So where do I go from here? I'm hoping that some of you can help! I think the biggest obstacles will be finding or reproducing the external "boxes" as I assume they were Sencore's proprietary units: final test box, ringer test box, and ringer cal box. That said –

• Maybe a former Sencore tech can help out here?
• Perhaps some information can be gleemed from the source code?

In any case, with this software, I think we are much closer to having these units be serviceable by their owners -- as it should be in 2020!

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Best Regards

[philexile]

Hi Sencoretech,

Thank you for getting back to me! I have a few followup questions, please see below –

First of the error you are getting is because you are missing the cal text file as you stated. This contains your expected software revisions as well as the expected vs actual values of your test fixtures. Without this file the calibration will not be accurate.

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear: I actually do have the two cal text files available – P071_03.cal and P72_10.cal – I assume that I just have to put these on a floppy, and have it inserted to avoid the error? These two files were included with the software.

What you need for cal is a cap decade box, inductance decade box, some coils for calibrating the ringer (this is manual and rarely is ever out of spec) and a 20-ohm resistor for the ESR calibration.

So the various items you've noted here would be able to be substituted for the "final test box" called for in the LC103 calibration procedure?

Also, would these boxes be okay to use:

cap decade box: Extech 380405
inductance decade box: Electronix Express Inductance Decade Box

What you can't get is the proprietary current source and leakage current box. I know Sencore had two of them made and I've only briefly looked at them, they are a series of relays/caps/resistors with an IEEE port to talk to the PC to make calibration partially automated.

Do you know what the proprietary current source and leakage current box was called? If a schematic exists, maybe it can be recreated – unless that would be cost-prohibitive.

All the data is sent to the LC103 via the RS232 port on the back, if you look at the menu you will notice it erases all the cal data as one of the first sets so I would not run this since you'll never be able to calibrate the current source.

I assume you mean the "calibration reset" menu item? Currently, my unit works well, and I don't plan on running this before being sure I have all the information to safely do so.

From what you've said here, I'm hoping that we can use this software to run some of the calibrations, such as capacitance and inductance, with the right substitute equipment.

I haven't worked at Sencore in 3+ years so I don't know if any of the old set up still exists, I'm guessing not but it was there when I was walked out the door so maybe they still have it stuff in storage somewhere.

Do you have any contacts that are still with the company who'd be willing to share? From what I understand, Sencore has moved on completely from the test equipment field – so this information would be of little value to them I assume.

Thanks again!

[Sencoretech]

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear: I actually do have the two cal text files available – P071_03.cal and P72_10.cal – I assume that I just have to put these on a floppy, and have it inserted to avoid the error? These two files were included with the software.

Yeah as long as you can get the files on a floppy you should be fine, you probably want to edit them with the values of your test fixtures.

So the various items you've noted here would be able to be substituted for the "final test box" called for in the LC103 calibration procedure?

Also, would these boxes be okay to use:

cap decade box: Extech 380405
inductance decade box: Electronix Express Inductance Decade Box

No the final test box is just the current source/leakage test box, you'll still need it to do those calibrations, you can do the all the others and write the cal stamp w/o it.  What you have should work fine as long as you know it's accurate.  Sencore had some pretty strict standards and we had all out equipment certified by a lab. 

Do you know what the proprietary current source and leakage current box was called? If a schematic exists, maybe it can be recreated – unless that would be cost-prohibitive.

Yeah there was a schematic for it,  I remember looking at it but it was only a paper one.  Chances are it's toast by now. 

Do you have any contacts that are still with the company who'd be willing to share? From what I understand, Sencore has moved on completely from the test equipment field – so this information would be of little value to them I assume.

Thanks again!

There are two people I would talk to, if they are still there Tory Hoteling, I believe he's still in customer support but he use to be the service manager when they still had the service department,  the other would be Ralph Belding, he is/was the Quality Assurance manager and might know where the equipment is.  I would just call the general number and ask for them,  I haven't talked to either of these guys in years but hopefully they'll help you out, but no guarantees.

[philexile]

Hi again,

Yeah as long as you can get the files on a floppy you should be fine, you probably want to edit them with the values of your test fixtures.

Good to know, just for reference, below are the values from my two cal docs – 

P071_03.CAL

201.1E-12
1701.1E-12
0.004E-6
0.018E-6
0.04E-6
0.18E-6
0.4E-6
1.764E-6
3.848E-6
19.610E-6
38.37E-6
172.04E-6
383.0E-6
1715.25E-6

P072_1.cal

8.1288
1.9915
1.49601
0.19871
149.22E-3
19.944E-3
14.951E-3
1.9971E-3
1.4937E-3
198.05E-6
10.31E-6
2.35E-6
78.98E-6
37.15E-6

There are 7 cal ranges.  The values listed above are grouped in two's; the first one is the high cal point and the second is the low cal point.

Actually . . . I wonder if those two documents are what was intended for the floppy disk. Looking at the instructions again, you'll see point #5 says to double click on "LC103 Final Cal" icon. I have a folder here with the following items:

LC103 Cal Data.ini
LC103 configData.nce
LC103 Final Cal.aliases
LC103 Final Cal.ini

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that THIS directory is what should go on the floppy disk, right?

Here are the contents of each of the files:

LC103 Cal Data.ini
[LC103 SW]
ver=1.53

;Capacitors
[C Range0]
200pF (73P71)
low_actual=202.7E-12
1700pF (73P71)
high_actual=1704.0E-12

[C Range1]
0.004uF (73P71)
low_actual=0.004E-6
0.018uF (73P71)
high_actual=0.018E-6

[C Range2]
0.04uF (73P71)
low_actual=0.04E-6
0.18uF (73P71)
high_actual=0.18E-6

[C Range3]
0.4uF (73P71)
low_actual=0.4E-6
1.80uF (74B211)
high_actual=1.765E-6

[C Range4]
4.0uF (74B211)
low_actual=3.849E-6
18.0uF (74B211)
high_actual=19.580E-6

[C Range5]
40.0uF (74B211)
low_actual=38.20E-6
180uF (74B211)
high_actual=171.21E-6

[C Range6]
400uF (74B211)
low_actual=381.04E-6
1800uF (74B211)
high_actual=1709.20E-6

;Inductors
[L Range0]
2.00uH (74A144)
low_actual=2.36E-6
10.0uH (74A144)
high_actual=10.32E-6

[L Range1]
40.0uH (74A144)
low_actual=37.14E-6
80.0uH (74A144)
high_actual=79.00E-6

[L Range2]
200uH (73P72)
low_actual=198.08E-6
1.50mH (73P72)
high_actual=1.4950E-3

[L Range3]
2.00mH (73P72)
low_actual=1.9983E-3
15.0mH (73P72)
high_actual=14.964E-3

[L Range4]
20.0mH (73P72)
low_actual=19.952E-3
150mH (73P72)
high_actual=149.42E-3

[L Range5]
200mH (73P72)
low_actual=0.19894
1.50H (73P72)
high_actual=1.49680

[L Range6]
2.00H (73P72)
low_actual=1.9948
8.00H (73P72)
high_actual=8.1361


LC103 Final Cal.ini

[LC103 Final Cal]
server.app.propertiesEnabled=True
server.ole.enabled=True
server.tcp.serviceName="My Computer/VI Server"
server.vi.propertiesEnabled=True
WebServer.TcpAccess="c+*"
WebServer.ViAccess="+*"
DebugServerEnabled=False
DebugServerWaitOnLaunch=False

No the final test box is just the current source/leakage test box, you'll still need it to do those calibrations, you can do all the others and write the cal stamp w/o it. What you have should work fine as long as you know it's accurate. Sencore had some pretty strict standards and we had all out equipment certified by a lab.

Okay, so without the "final test box" is the source/leakage box and didn't have anything to do with calibrating the capacitance and inductance? Sorry if I'm being dense – but there were so many "boxes" referenced in the calibration procedure! (final test box, ringer test box, large inductance box, ringer cal box)

Yeah there was a schematic for it,  I remember looking at it but it was only a paper one.  Chances are it's toast by now.

I'll dig. 

There are two people I would talk to, if they are still there Tory Hoteling, I believe he's still in customer support but he use to be the service manager when they still had the service department,  the other would be Ralph Belding, he is/was the Quality Assurance manager and might know where the equipment is.  I would just call the general number and ask for them,  I haven't talked to either of these guys in years but hopefully they'll help you out, but no guarantees.

Great, thank you again for all the help!

[philexile]

Hello,

Just a quick update — I spoke to a rep at Sencore and they confirmed that the cap and inductance boxes weren’t exclusive to Sencore. They’re trying to dig up exactly what was used — and additional info on the final cal box.

In the meantime, does anyone have LabView version 3.1 or 5.1 available?

Thanks

[globe_02]

Hi,is this https://www.freesoftwarefiles.com/development/labview-nxg-3-1-free-download/ what you are looking for?
Very large file. 3Gb.

[vaer1977]

Hi to all,
After a few hesitations , I finally decided to buy a LC103 in very good condition.
It has the V1.46 firmware
Here's the dump:

[joeqsmith]

Hello,

Just a quick update — I spoke to a rep at Sencore and they confirmed that the cap and inductance boxes weren’t exclusive to Sencore. They’re trying to dig up exactly what was used — and additional info on the final cal box.

In the meantime, does anyone have LabView version 3.1 or 5.1 available?

Thanks

If you still have something you wanted brought up to a more recent version, feel free to post it here and I can attempt it. 

[Xenawise]

Hello,

I acquired a Sencore LC103 from an auction this past summer. Luckily, it seems to work well. At the time, I did some digging for any information I could about the unit and, over time, came up with some interesting materials....

1. Complete BOM files for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

2. Calibration procedures for  LC77, LC102, and LC103

3. Schematics and parts lists for the LC77, LC102, and LC103

4. Common fix list for the LC103

5. Sencore's "FinalCal" calibration software for the LC103


I'm assuming that item 5 will interest most people here. 

The FinalCal software is complete (please see the attached pictures of the software up and running on my old XP laptop) and even includes the source code in a separate folder. There are some things to figure out though, see below:

• You will see in the calibration procedure instructions, included with the images, that there are a few separate items called for: final test box, cal disk (more on this in the next point), ringer test box, and ringer cal box. There is also a note towards the end instructing the operator to bring the unit to the z-meter bench in "Service."

• When opening the software, there is a prompt to insert the floppy disk NOW. This is also noted in step 4 of the calibration procedure document – but there it is called "cal disk" and not floppy. I believe this floppy would have included the two "cal" files called for in step 6: "P071_03.cal" and "P72_10.cal" – thankfully, I have these files as well. I haven't been able to try to include them on a floppy disk however as I don't have any floppies currently!

• There is an error shown in the pictures, related to LabVIEW. I'm not sure what this means. It is possible that even though my LC103 was hooked up via the RS232 port, it wasn't communicating properly. I didn't troubleshoot this.

• I am able to navigate to the two cal files, but I haven't run any of the tests or calibrations, since I'm still trying to figure this out – and I'm still missing essential parts of the calibration – the external "boxes."

So where do I go from here? I'm hoping that some of you can help! I think the biggest obstacles will be finding or reproducing the external "boxes" as I assume they were Sencore's proprietary units: final test box, ringer test box, and ringer cal box. That said –

• Maybe a former Sencore tech can help out here?
• Perhaps some information can be gleemed from the source code?

In any case, with this software, I think we are much closer to having these units be serviceable by their owners -- as it should be in 2020!

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Best Regards

philexile, where can I get a copy of your software for the LC103 and perhaps any other files you have related to this instrument? Thanks for a reply!

Regards,

Xenawise

[Hugoneus]

Has anyone managed to get the software files?

[HighVoltage]

Has anyone managed to get the software files?

No, unfortunately the files have not been shared.

[mapleLC]

I didn't want to create a new thread so I was glad to find this one

Can someone please help me understand these 2 units by comparing and contrasting them?

I am in the market for one, but can't find a good reference to understand what the differences are.

[HighVoltage]

I think they are very similar in their usage and data.

Main difference is display and keyboard.
My LC103 works extremely well.
Enclosed are the highlights in a LC103 datasheet / brochure.