Author Topic: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post  (Read 4449 times)

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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« on: May 08, 2023, 11:58:51 pm »
I'm considering getting yet another meter. I was hoping to get something higher-end, but not sure what the best option is, especially in the lower price ranges.

My primary DMM for the past 12 years has been an Amprobe 37XR-A. It's been great for the most part, and I love that it has inductance in addition to the standards. I also have a dozen other meters including the DE-5000 and the new Shannon tweezers.

My primary uses are for electronics work on guitars, amplifiers, pro audio, and some more precise stuff like my FUtracer tube tracer. Generally speaking, I don't need 30 digits, but I do want solid performance.

If something is available with common TRMS DMM specs plus inductance, that would be awesome. I guess I want a higher accuracy / broader spec version of the 37XR-A. I always use voltage, diode, impedance & continuity, sometimes current, and capacitance, and sometimes inductance. If trying to get inductance included is unrealistic, that's fine. I'm not trying to spend thousands of dollars on a DMM. I'm not interested in paying for the Fluke name either.

These seem to be nice options from the Multimeter chart thread (and the 1000 other threads like this one), but I don't think any do inductance:
Brymen BM869
Hioki DT4282
Uni-T UT181A
CEM DT-9987
EEVblog / Brymen BM786

Does anybody have a reason why a bench model might be preferred? From my understanding, they typically cost more, take up more space, and aren't isolated because they usually use wall power.

I don't really want to spend a lot on this, so I might trade (or sell) my SDG2042X towards a nice meter. It's barely used at all (probably less than an hour total) since I got it shortly before my SDS2104XP, and then only used the built-in AWG. If I get something cheaper like the BM786 I'll just keep it.

Thanks,
Josh
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 02:43:21 pm by KungFuJosh »
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Online tautech

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2023, 12:16:21 am »
Does anybody have a reason why a bench model might be preferred? From my understanding, they typically cost more, take up more space, and aren't isolated because they usually use wall power.
Of course a bench DMM has isolated terminals, what DMM doesn't !

Isolation from mains is provided within the meter and they typically offer a rating into the reference terminal of 500V max above mains ground.
See image:
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2023, 12:50:26 am »
Does anybody have a reason why a bench model might be preferred? From my understanding, they typically cost more, take up more space, and aren't isolated because they usually use wall power.
Of course a bench DMM has isolated terminals, what DMM doesn't !

Isolation from mains is provided within the meter and they typically offer a rating into the reference terminal of 500V max above mains ground.

Oh, that's cool. I read somebody claiming otherwise on this site (I never bothered to research further, Oops). Ok, so the Siglent DMMs can be on the list too. 😉

I didn't see anything for inductance on those either tho.
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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2023, 12:55:31 am »
I didn't see anything for inductance on those either tho.
Correct.
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Offline GigaJoe

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2023, 12:57:28 am »
and of course, touchscreen

 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2023, 01:31:00 am »
I also have a dozen other meters including the DE-5000 and the new Shannon tweezers.

Inductance is a pretty rare feature to have in a general-purpose DMM of any type.  If you already have LCR meters, there's not much point in trying to replicate that function.  The only feature that I think would be a worthwhile improvement for your usage would be a meter with a high-impedance input function and on your budget, that is most likely going to be a used unit since the lowest price new versions are $700+.  I'm thinking of something like a HP34401A or Fluke 8842A.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2023, 01:36:38 am »
I also have a dozen other meters including the DE-5000 and the new Shannon tweezers.

Inductance is a pretty rare feature to have in a general-purpose DMM of any type.  If you already have LCR meters, there's not much point in trying to replicate that function.  The only feature that I think would be a worthwhile improvement for your usage would be a meter with a high-impedance input function and on your budget, that is most likely going to be a used unit since the lowest price new versions are $700+.  I'm thinking of something like a HP34401A or Fluke 8842A.
All the Siglent bench DMM's offer such.

And 100% on inductance as any good set of tweezers can provide useful inductance measurements.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2023, 01:41:36 am »
Of course a bench DMM has isolated terminals, what DMM doesn't !

Isolation from mains is provided within the meter and they typically offer a rating into the reference terminal of 500V max above mains ground.

Oh, that's cool. I read somebody claiming otherwise on this site

A non-isolated DMM would be as much use as a chocolate teapot.


I didn't see anything for inductance on those either tho.

DMMs don't have inductance as a rule.

Maybe you should look into LCR meters first. That would free your mind when you go looking for a DMM.

The DE-5000 is popular around here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/recommendation-on-a-decent-lcr-meter/
 
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Offline bdunham7

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2023, 01:44:52 am »
All the Siglent bench DMM's offer such.

Really?  I thought it was just the 6.5-digit model?  Or do the lesser ones have Hi-Z on the millivolt ranges only?  That's not quite as useful.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2023, 01:49:07 am »
All the Siglent bench DMM's offer such.

Really?  I thought it was just the 6.5-digit model?  Or do the lesser ones have Hi-Z on the millivolt ranges only?  That's not quite as useful.
From datasheet:
200 mV and 2 V Range 10 MΩ or >10 GΩ selectable
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2023, 01:51:28 am »
Maybe you should look into LCR meters first. That would free your mind when you go looking for a DMM.

The DE-5000 is popular around here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/recommendation-on-a-decent-lcr-meter/

I mentioned in the OP that I already have the DE-5000, the Shannon tweezers, and my Amprobe 37XR-A all can do inductance. Since my Amprobe has it, I was hoping another nice DMM does too. Not a deal breaker either way. I like to be lazy and not have to reach into my meter drawer and pull out another device if I don't have to. 😉
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Offline GigaJoe

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2023, 02:35:35 am »
i would suggest a dual display bench dmm , that can measure 2 functions in the same time, playing with sound amplifiers very much to measure AC and DC in the same time, or AC current and voltage ,  it kind useful.  Sometimes  i need precision to match resistors for filters. or so ...
200000 count or 5.5 digit qute useful as you can do choose between precision,   wide range ( set to 200.00 V - cover all your basic measures no worries )  or speed  ( like set 3.5 digit with a few hundreds updates per sec - very useful for spikes )

and it should not be a new device ...

check this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/394614612431  , dual display
disassemble, replace caps, clean the case \ cover ; maybe buttons , display perfect,   dont like it will sell in a moment for the same price ...
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 02:40:52 am by GigaJoe »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2023, 04:20:54 am »
I like to be lazy and not have to reach into my meter drawer and pull out another device if I don't have to. 😉

You could tape the DE-5000 to the top of the bench DMM instead of keeping it in a drawer.

Bench DMM with built-in LCR meter! :)
 
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Offline J-R

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2023, 05:31:08 am »
My 2 cents:
The Amprobe 37XR-A is decent.  10,000 count plus some bonus functions.  But the 50k/60k count Brymens would be a step up in resolution and accuracy and are pretty popular.  US warranty support might be a minor negative.

A modern bench DMM could offer you a large, color screen with trend information and lots of statistics all at once.  Then there is the 4-wire Ohms mode which may or may not be interesting depending on use case and the fact you already have the DE-5000.

A calibrated, vintage bench DMM could offer lots of spot-on digits.  Everything else is somewhat lacking.
 
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Offline BillyO

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2023, 02:31:15 pm »
A non-isolated DMM would be as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Such a thing exists.  This last Easter we found a chocolate teapot with a little chick in it.  Like a hollow chocolate Easter egg, except in the shape of a chick filled teapot.  I could not help wondering how much work it was getting the printed foil lined up right on those. :-//
Bill  (Currently a Siglent fanboy)
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Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2023, 04:39:30 pm »
I'm leaning towards one of these 3:

Hioki DT4282 $431 on Amazon
Uni-T UT181A $360 on Amazon
EEVblog / Brymen BM786 $165 $173 shipped from Aus, or $199 from Amazon

Diode testing is important to me, and it appears that the Hioki is the best of these. But is it worth the cost difference? The Uni-T looks to be a really good set of specs for the price, but it has the same diode rating as my amprobe, and the BM786 is only slightly better. Would any one of them really be better at testing for leaky diodes?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2023, 02:13:18 pm by KungFuJosh »
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Offline wasedadoc

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2023, 04:53:59 pm »
I don't see anything the OP has written which justifies needing more than 3 plus some fraction digits.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2023, 05:17:05 pm »
Diode testing is important to me, and it appears that the Hioki is the best of these. But is it worth the cost difference? The Uni-T looks to be a really good set of specs for the price, but it has the same diode rating as my amprobe, and the BM786 is only slightly better. Would any one of them really be better at testing for leaky diodes?

What diode testing specs are you looking at and do you really mean "leaky diodes"?  Leaky would seem to imply you'd want to use the conductance feature, which they all have.  I don't see any obvious difference in normal forward voltage testing as they all seem to specify a 3.0V range.

The BM786 is bandwidth limited to 7kHz and not all that accurate above 1kHz, so if you are working on audio stuff perhaps that matters?

If it was me I would avoid the big-bang-for-buck UNI-T and take the Hioki.  However, I'd check and see exactly what warranty and support you are entitled to if you buy it at a discount from seller 'BUGS BUNNY'. 
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2023, 05:40:37 pm »
Among the choices I would pick the Hioki.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2023, 07:51:13 pm »
Among the choices I would pick the Hioki.

Either that or the $4 Big Clive DMM: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/trashy-meters-redux/
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 07:53:46 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2023, 08:18:52 pm »
Among the choices I would pick the Hioki.

Either that or the $4 Big Clive DMM: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/trashy-meters-redux/

lol, I have plenty of trashy meters stashed in drawers, I'll pass on that one.
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Offline rcjoy

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2023, 09:59:45 pm »
  Does anybody have a reason why a bench model might be preferred?

Bench models usually have a way to control it remotely, via GPIB or Ethernet or USB or RS-232 (and often some combinations of those).
That's really useful when you need to collect data in an automated fashion.

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2023, 10:30:41 pm »
lol, I have plenty of trashy meters stashed in drawers, I'll pass on that one.

On the bench? Both show identical numbers...  :-//

 

Offline KungFuJoshTopic starter

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2023, 02:19:07 pm »
I think I'm just going to sell or trade my SDG2042X towards the SDM3055. I think my Amprobe covers my needs well enough compared to the other handhelds. With the minimal price difference between the nicer handhelds and the SDM3055, I don't see a reason not to get it. (besides it being overkill, not really needing it, etc.) Or maybe I'll be dumb and make room for both on my bench. 🤣


Also, just to throw this out there... Is there a $500 competitor to the SDM3055 that anybody thinks is as good or superior? I'm really not interested in a used meter, so let's not go there. Used meters are projects, I have plenty of projects.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2023, 02:41:47 pm by KungFuJosh »
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Yet Another DMM Indecision Post
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2023, 05:52:28 pm »
..... Or maybe I'll be dumb and make room for both on my bench. 🤣

That would be Smart, as you'll need all the digits & signals you can get in those Radiation Hardened Thermionic Emission Field Effect Encapsulated Devices to find those Leaking Electrons that were Thermionic Emitted from the Bright source and got lost on their way to be Collected at the Dark side :)

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