Zeroplus LAP-C 16032 Logic Analyzer Logic Cube

[c4757p]

do you know it and do you have serial number generator for the protocols?

PM me a lockpick for the local bank's vault and I'll PM you a serial number generator.

Don't steal. They put in hard work to make that stuff for you. If they don't want you to have it for free when you've modified your board, then hmm... I guess you'll have to pay up.

[eemkutay]

@Kryoclasm and @c4757p

yes, you're right.

[tancioste]

HI all, I’m going to buy the LAPC-16032 and I would like to upgrade it to 162000, I need more ram but I do not need 32 channels.
Can someone explain the procedure? What RAM IC should I buy?
Do I need to patch the EEPROM or I can “simply” modify the DLL? if so, how Am I supposed to do that? What about the clock speed? 16032 is 100MHz device, 16128 or 16200 is 200Mhz device..Does the EEPROM hack increase the clock speed too?
Thanks Stefano

[0xdeadbeef]

I'm not so sure if anybody ever upgraded from a C16032 to anything above a C32128 but even this was some years ago. When I bought my C16032 in 2011 or so, it could be hacked to a C16128 without any HW modification, but even back then, the upgrade to 32 channels didn't seem to work anymore (different ASIC as far as I recall). Later versions came with smaller SRAM and cut pins, so you needed to replace the SRAM and reconnect the cut pins even to upgrade from C16032 to C16128.
My (patched) C16032 works perfectly fine with sample rates up to 200MHz though. The patching however only affected the available RAM (128K instead of 32K).
128K should be sufficient for most purposes btw. Honestly, most of the times I use my Open Logic Sniffer which has only 24K samples in 8bit mode, but usually I use 16 channels with only 12K samples - not because I need the channels, but because this usually improves the RLE quite a bit.

[mr.os]

I bought a C16032 some weeks ago. I have the new ASIC. The unit was upgradable to a C16128 only with modifing the eeprom content (with zeroprog or zerominus). It works beautiful.
With adding an additonal input buffer and some passives it was possible to convert it to a C32128. You only must cut the traces at the bottom of the PCB which shorts the ASIC inputs.
When you want to have an C322000 (or 162000, but you only need components for some dollars for the conversion to 32 channel, so i doesn't matter), you must replace the SRAM (Digikey part 428-3253-ND, really expensive! nearly 150€ for me, more than the analyzer itself) and solder the 4 cutted pins from the ASIC down to the board. I used a file to do the same like 'lux' in this thread. But it is not to easy to replace SRAM because of the lead-less solder.

So I have a fully working C322000. It is only important to register the analyzer at zerominus after the modifiction. Elsewhere you are not able to use the protocol plugins. So you have also the additional free plugins for the C322000.

[tancioste]

Hi,
thank you very much for your quick answers.
I think I'm going to buy the LAP-C 16032 and try the EEPROM upgrade only. I Really do not need more than 16 channel, however I can use a little bit of extra memory
Now I'm going to ask a "stupid" question, so please forgive me
If I understand correctly, the LAP-C 16032 (or 16128) is capable of sampling signals on a bus and stores the captured samples in the buffer (the storage space should be the channel depth... is it right?). What I do not understand is how many samples can be stored.
I think it is depends from the bus data (it should store only state changes in the bus signal and not all samples...is it right?).
I 'm going to work with SPI (12MHz bus speed)and I2C, how many seconds of data can be captured? (this is the stupid question )
The logic sniffer is quite interesting, and I like it because I can use it on Linux too, however I'm afraid it has not enough RAM. I saw on you tube you can store 2sec max of data.
Why do you prefer the Logic Sniffer to the LAPC?
Thanks
Stefano

[0xdeadbeef]

128k means 128000 samples (usually an 8bit analyzer stores one byte at once, for 16bit it's one word and so on). Without compression this would mean that e.g. at 10MHz you can store for 128000/10000000 = 0.0128 seconds (or 12.8ms). To store a 12MHz SPI (which seems rather high btw.), you should use at least 25MHz, better 50 or 100MHz. So with 100MHz this time is reduced to 1.27ms.
Then again, with compression, the time that can be stored depends on the signals and the compression strategy. Usually the strategy is a rather simple run length encoding, so if all signals (e.g. all 8 or 16 channels) stay the same during N successive sample cycles, they can be stored as number N plus sample instead of N samples. So with sporadic signals, the recording time can be much higher.

[tancioste]

Thank you 0xdeadbeef, it is clear now.
LAP-C seems to be a good toy to play with... and the software looks fine to me.
Why do you still use the Logic Sniffer? What are the pros?
Thanks
Stefano


 

[0xdeadbeef]

The OLS has much better trigger possibilities, although I must admit I almost never need them (LPC can only trigger on simple edges/patterns).
However, the real reason why I use it more is mainly that it doesn't need a SW installation and it's very small, so it's convenient to always have it in my bag.
So I use it even at work where I could also use a ~10k€ Agilent Logic Analyzer (noisy, no decoder plugins).
For the LPC you's need to install a big SW package plus dozens of single protocols where each protocol dumps a large Chinese pdf in the installation folder.

[Mark_O]

Then again, with compression, the time that can be stored depends on the signals and the compression strategy. Usually the strategy is a rather simple run length encoding, so if all signals (e.g. all 8 or 16 channels) stay the same during N successive sample cycles, they can be stored as number N plus sample instead of N samples. So with sporadic signals, the recording time can be much higher.

For the LAP-C's, ZeroPlus indicates that runs of up to 256 dup samples can be compressed.  Thus a 1-byte count for each sample slice.  This would come in very handy when capturing comms traces, because the relatively "dead time" between packets would be factored out, leaving just the meaty data burning up sample slots.

What I don't quite understand is that the memory on these internally is 36-bits wide.  That suggests only 4-bits would be available for repeat counts when running 32-bit wide sampling, but 20-bits for counts with just 16-bit samples.  However, nothing to that effect is mentioned by ZeroPlus.

Ah, they do give this stipulation... "Data Compression : Max 128K bits x 256, Available 24CH".  Thus when capturing the full 32-channel width, the compression is much more limited (or unavailable completely?).

[bingo600]

The OLS has much better trigger possibilities, although I must admit I almost never need them (LPC can only trigger on simple edges/patterns).
However, the real reason why I use it more is mainly that it doesn't need a SW installation and it's very small, so it's convenient to always have it in my bag.
So I use it even at work where I could also use a ~10k€ Agilent Logic Analyzer (noisy, no decoder plugins).
For the LPC you's need to install a big SW package plus dozens of single protocols where each protocol dumps a large Chinese pdf in the installation folder.

Did you see the 64MB OLS ?
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5907

That's cute ..

/Bingo

[tancioste]

Well, OLS with 64MB of memory is really interesting, There is also a "custom" version of the software capable of high speed data transfer between OLS and PC...
LPC has a trigger plugin, maybe it can be usefull:
http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/products.php?pdn=1&product_id=385

Stefano

[0xdeadbeef]

Did you see the 64MB OLS ?
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5907

Sure, but the FPGA board seems impossible to get here in Europe and buying in the US is pretty expensive (+customs etc.).
Also I guess you would need some input circuitry (maybe one could use the extension wing for the original OLS).

@Stefano
The LPC "trigger" plugin is a software solution, not really am extended HW trigger. Was discussed here before.

[braddie]

I can confirm that the mod still works with a late 2013 unit. I was able to upgrade my 16032 to a 32128 with the hardware (openschemes) and firmware mods. Thank you to those who've shared the information and their experiences which gave me the confidence to try it

[ljwinkler]

It is good to hear that they haven't fixed it yet

Cheers,
LJ

[gmb42]

Does anyone know of a workaround to get the drivers working on Win 8.1 (64 bit)?

At the moment I have to keep my old netbook around (running XP) to run the Zeroplus.

[ljwinkler]

I didn't use mine in last couple of months but I've just connected it to my updates Win8.1 and I can confirm I have the same issue as you.
Windows can see the device but claims that "The drivers for this device are not installed" :/

I will let you know if I find anything useful.

I just downloaded and installed the latest software from their website (V3.12.03 from 2014-03-17) - no change

[braddie]

Does anyone know of a workaround to get the drivers working on Win 8.1 (64 bit)?

At the moment I have to keep my old netbook around (running XP) to run the Zeroplus.

It can be tricky to get it working on Windows 7 sometimes so I'm not surprised it doesn't work with Windows 8. You can use a virtual machine that has USB support with an older version of Windows (possibly MS Virtual PC/Windows XP Mode). When I first got mine I had it working with VirtualBox and (a lightweight) Win XP.

[gmb42]

Tried with Virtual Box (running XP) with the VB Extension pack installed, no go.  The ZeroPlus doesn't show up in Device Manager in the XP guest.

[c4757p]

You know you have to specifically tell VBox to connect the device to the guest OS, right? Works fine for me...

[gmb42]

As in the image attached.

What host OS are you using? Does the ZeroPlus show up in Device Manager on your host and guest?

The Zeroplus doesn't show up using `vboxmanage list usbhost` on the host either, nor is it listed in the VB guest menu item, Devices | USB Devices

[ljwinkler]

I just found a win8 drivers: http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/software_download/lac_s31200_all(win8).zip

The file is on their website however, you cant find it through the product page 

I will try installing it when I get home.
Hope it helps!

[ljwinkler]

Boom, sorted

Here are the steps:
1. Download http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/software_download/lac_s31200_all(win8).zip
2. Extract the zip file
3. Navigate to the "Driver Setup" folder and extract the "Data1.cab" file (or double click on it to see its contents)
4. Copy the following files to: "C:\Program Files (x86)\PC-Based Instrument\ZEROPLUS\DRIVER\"
 - Bulkusb.inf8 and rename it as bulkusb.inf
 - Bulkusb.sys7 and rename it as bulkusb.sys
 - Bulkusb64.cat3 and rename it as bulkusb64.cat
5. Go to the Device Manager, right click on the LAP-C Analyser device, select "Update Driver Software"
6. Click on "Browse my computer for driver software" and select the folder from point 4 above
7. Enjoy!

Cheers,
LJ

[gmb42]

Boom, sorted

Here are the steps:
1. Download http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/software_download/lac_s31200_all(win8).zip
2. Extract the zip file
3. Navigate to the "Driver Setup" folder and extract the "Data1.cab" file (or double click on it to see its contents)
4. Copy the following files to: "C:\Program Files (x86)\PC-Based Instrument\ZEROPLUS\DRIVER\"
 - Bulkusb.inf8 and rename it as bulkusb.inf
 - Bulkusb.sys7 and rename it as bulkusb.sys
 - Bulkusb64.cat3 and rename it as bulkusb64.cat
5. Go to the Device Manager, right click on the LAP-C Analyser device, select "Update Driver Software"
6. Click on "Browse my computer for driver software" and select the folder from point 4 above
7. Enjoy!

Cheers,
LJ

Thanks for that.

I used the files from my previous download (lac_s31202_all.zip which may be newer than yours) renamed them as above and the ZP is now working.  Many thanks.

[ljwinkler]

I'm glad I could help