Author Topic: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs  (Read 10776 times)

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Online Fraser

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2021, 04:57:46 pm »
Very interesting news Bill  :-+ I mistakenly thought that Microbolometers were filtered for LWIR only. Any ability to see in the MWIR band could possibly be exploited using a MWIR lens in place of the LWIR type normally fitted. Maybe an area worthy of experimentation for those eager to have some form of MWIR capability ? 10% is better than nothing  ;D Sadly MWIR lenses are uncommon and expensive.

Fraser
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 04:59:33 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2021, 06:24:07 pm »
Very interesting news Bill  :-+ I mistakenly thought that Microbolometers were filtered for LWIR only.


The majority are, if only by accident of the coatings used, and the likes of the ULIS Pico 384 used on the test above have a small response but hardly 'by design'.

ULIS did do trials with a broadband window, and I recall that some dies had a ~ 50% response in 3-5µm.
A bit about this in the SPIE papers that ULIS did early on - search for authors Tissot and Crastes.

Bill
 
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Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2021, 07:54:37 pm »
As noted in the teardown, the BST is a self-sufficient camera core, and the Argus3 chassis can be stripped of the fire camera extras and used as a basis for a smaller camera that offers much more user control thanks to the Raytheon software being 'out there'.

What follows below is taken from the reuse project documented here http://www.fire-tics.co.uk/project3/index.htm

The Argus 3 camera used the digital data from the Raytheon SECCA PCB, rather than the analogue output. However the analogue, and means to power the part-built camera, was provided to allow the core sub-assembly to be classed as a 'camera' for customs purposes.

These connections, and the fact that the BST core itself was designed for use in a simpler 'volts in - video out' stand alone camera such as the Raytheon Palm IR and vehicle vision products, means that a functional camera can be made solely with the Argus 3 detector PCB & the Raytheon parts to provide a 'volts in - video out' stand alone cameraor by using the 40 way connector with access to more controls via software and digital video data. The output in this case will the basic corrected core video and without the added graphics of the Argus3 camera.

The core fits inside a 'brick' of frontal area 125x184 mm, 70mm deep including the standard lens. The chopper diameter is 70mm and is fully enclosed within the frontal area.

 
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Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2021, 07:58:06 pm »
An extended guide to the relevant points on the detector PCB, before moving on to the minor hardware mods needed to get it going.

PCB functions, clockwise from the top

    Peltier override, allowed the EEV circuits to interrupt the peltier if the camera got too hot, also to assist startup.
    BST sensor
    Test points on DC control voltages for the BST core gain & Offset
    RS-232 connection for direct control of BST core image processing
    The 'BST DAC' sets up analogue voltages to control the core video gain and offset. Control by SPI from EEV boards via 40 way connector
    JTAG header for PLD
    The detector PCB PLD controls the iris in the lens by sampling the digital video stream and also shift logic to rephase the chopper wheel to match the mechanical arrangement of the Argus3. It has the digital data available (for iris control) so could be repurposed
    Testpoints on the 8 bit video data bus (upper bits of 10 from the core)
    40 way connector, 0.1" pitch with all necessary signals present, so can be a single connection
    R66, a link to allow the 5V regulator to receive input power
    5V regulator
    6 way 0.1" test connector with iris test, power in and video out.
    Lens connector, used for iris drive and limiting
    Iris drive, H bridge style pulsed power for the iris motor
    Chopper wheel sensor, detects the edge notch in the chopper wheel to allow it oto be synced to the video timing. As it is not the same angle as in the Raytheon basic design, the PLD has to phase shift the pulse

It should also be noted that a large number of test points exist, all labelled with the signal names, hopefully fairly obvious.


Bill
 
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Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2021, 04:08:19 pm »
Thank you Bill for this dense complement about the Argus 3 system.

One question (among others which will come... :D )

Would it be possible to substitute the whole bloc of the genuine motorized (Iris) lens by another optical bloc being manually focused, without any specific iris, a bit like in this version i dared to modify from your original diagram?

The fact that there would be no more iris actuator, or in other word, that the terminals from the Iris controller would be unplugged, would it create some management issues for the SECCA, and consequently for the Core Video Output, because of a lack of signal, no more pulled current detected, absence of any kind of feedback signal? Would it render the whole system inoperant?

I guess without iris, for fire environment, it would be a big issue concerning the dynamic range of the camera, but for using in normal ambient environment, night landscape and night wildlife monitoring ?

Thank you for your input on these points.... :)

Cheers.

Stéphane
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 04:16:42 pm by Lambda »
 

Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2021, 04:16:03 pm »
Thank you Bill for this dense complement about the Argus 3 system.

One question (among others which will come... :D )

Would it be possible to substitute the whole bloc of the genuine motorized (Iris) lens by another optical bloc being anually focused, without any specifci Iris, a bit like in this version from your original diagram?

No problem at all.  Works fine with the lens unplugged, all that would happen is the drive would be trying to open or close all the time, none of it goes back to the SECCA (= Raytheon control board) it is all in the PLD.
If you had the Argus3 control board attached and were using that video, you would get a warning triangle graphic as it would think the iris was stuck.

As you suspect though, dynamic range would be limited but the SECCA AGC could be made available. I don't think Cadillac cameras had an iris

regards
Bill

Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2021, 09:50:54 pm »
An extended guide to the relevant points on the detector PCB, before moving on to the minor hardware mods needed to get it going.

The only dependency for the 'core' on the rest of the camera is that the 5V logic on the EEV detector board is powered from the 10V supply in the rest of the camera (mainly for the LCD).
Hence my highlighting the 5V regulator in the image above.  Fortunately 'someone'  :-X put in a link to solve this problem.  R66 connects 'power in' +ve to the 5V regulator input.  Downside is that you lose the bottom end of the input range, you need >7.5V for the regulator to be happy, and also need to keep below 10V for the core to be happy (in case you have any dodgy tantalums on the Raytheon SECCA).

Without the 5V, no chopper pulse from the PLD although you could rewire that directly if low voltage operation is vital.

Next step is dealing with the DC control voltages for the SECCA video gain and offset.  The default condition through the DAC's without the rest of the camera is that of 'DC control' and the 'DC control' is set to zero.
By far the easist answer is hooking up the RS-232 and running the Raytheon software to take control of the core and make it 'computer' controlled, and this can be saved so that it starts up that way.  All this was a hang over from the original 'analogue' core where this was the only way to set gain and offset.

The software is linked in this thread, down on post #23
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/the-story-of-a-radiance-1-camera-and-frasers-quest-to-find-information-on-it/
with thanks to the contributor, but you'll probably need a WinXP machine with a serial port.

I'd have to add the alternative of keeping with the DC control, 5V on the two selects would make the SECCA go to 'auto' or putting variable DC on the 'os' and 'gn' lines give you DC control.  All would need battering the DAC into submission, again handy resistors make this easy.
  • R49 - Offset enable
  • R50 - Gain enable
  • R51 - Gain DC level
  • R52 - Offset DC level
C30 & C25 have the 5V DC from the SECCA to use for pots / links rather than the PCB 5V

Bill


 
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Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2021, 07:53:56 am »
Hello. :)

Thank you Bill for you replies.

I am a bit ashamed to ask you a so trivial question for you, but i need to clarify this for my understanding..

Did i assume correctly the pinout of the 6 ways connector used for a basic Video-out/power-in basic mode ( see the extract i annotated, coming from your website http://www.fire-tics.co.uk/project3/index.htm ) ?

Thank you!

Best regards.

Stéphane
 

Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2021, 10:49:43 am »
Hello. :)

Thank you Bill for you replies.

I am a bit ashamed to ask you a so trivial question for you, but i need to clarify this for my understanding..

Did i assume correctly the pinout of the 6 ways connector used for a basic Video-out/power-in basic mode ( see the extract i annotated, coming from your website http://www.fire-tics.co.uk/project3/index.htm ) ?

Thank you!

Best regards.

Stéphane

No, the other way round.  Go by the legend text.  I'll go fix that page to deal with narrow screens.

Might as well add the following about power.  The boards DO NOT include reverse polarity or spike protection. Protection should be considered if the core is not powered from a clean DC supply.
A number of 'DIY' conversions to vehicle use have failed as car alternator spikes will kill the BST core, mainly through poorly specified tantalum capacitors. At startup there is a power surge at 10W until the sensor peltier control has stabilised, one reason there is a peltier interrupt on Argus3 as noted in another thread.
Once in normal running, power draw drops to around 3.5W.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 08:10:16 pm by Bill W »
 
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Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2021, 11:22:38 am »
Ok Bill.  :-+

It is crystal clear!

Thank you.

Stéphane
 

Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2021, 08:16:29 pm »
The relevant bits around the DAC for video control.  I can go into more about the DAC, but suspect anyone doing this will go the RS-232 route.

Again the legend has the directions indicated.




Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2021, 08:23:47 pm »
The other way to connect is the 40 way on the bottom of the board.  This has all the connections needed, and a fair few others that might be of interest as there is access to the digital video and also the SPI (analogue gain DAC's and PLD).

Note the presence of '10V' (pin 11) and '5V' (pin 40) as well as '+VE' (pins 1/3/5), so a few options to sort out the on-board 5V supply issue.  The '10V' is only there for the 5V regulator so does not need to be 10V.
So, a +9V on 1/3/5/11 will be fine, or 5V on 1/3/5/40, but watch the current draw at low input.


Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2021, 07:54:21 am »
Hello.

Bill, when i read gain your disclosure in your page project, i have still some incertitudes in my comprehension (  :-[ :-[ :-[ ), concerning a proper way to settle the core in a "Power In - Video Out" mode.

I have the feeling that the pinout of the 6 ways connector used for a basic Video-out/power-in basic mode has to be used, as you clearly explained here, and in your website. But i have also understood that the pin 11 has also to be fed by a DC supply providing 7.5V minimum (or the pin 40, directly with 5V).

So for the basic mode "Power In - Video Out":

6 ways connectors:
- Vin (0/+) (5-9 V)
- Video out (0/V)

AND (???)

40 ways connector:
- pin 11: Vin (7.5V mini)
OR
- Pin 40: Vin (5V)

Is it correct?

Thank you again for this additional clarification, and sorry (also again) for my slowness for understanding...

Best regards.

Stéphane
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 08:40:52 am by Lambda »
 

Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2021, 08:10:05 pm »
Hello.

Bill, when i read gain your disclosure in your page project, i have still some incertitudes in my comprehension (  :-[ :-[ :-[ ), concerning a proper way to settle the core in a "Power In - Video Out" mode.

I have the feeling that the pinout of the 6 ways connector used for a basic Video-out/power-in basic mode has to be used, as you clearly explained here, and in your website. But i have also understood that the pin 11 has also to be fed by a DC supply providing 7.5V minimum (or the pin 40, directly with 5V).

So for the basic mode "Power In - Video Out":

6 ways connectors:
- Vin (0/+) (5-9 V)
- Video out (0/V)

AND (???)

40 ways connector:
- pin 11: Vin (7.5V mini)
OR
- Pin 40: Vin (5V)

Is it correct?

Thank you again for this additional clarification, and sorry (also again) for my slowness for understanding...

Best regards.

Stéphane

The PCB 5V needs a supply.  There are several ways to do it, it can be all be via the 40 way (for people going that route) or

To ONLY use the 6 way:

6 ways connectors:
- Vin (0/+) (7.5-10 V)  *** NOTE the 7.5V minimum if going this route
- Video out (0/V)
- Fit R66

R66 joins the Vin +ve to the '10V' input at pin 11, and all the 10V is only there to power the 5V regulator.
In the drawing, 'Power' is the Vin power.

Obviously this is only OK once there is no 'motherboard' connected, or it can all get a bit wierd.

The reason, Argus3 was designed to run from a Sony camcorder battery of 5 x NiMH so not enough volts for a 5V supply.  Easier and no worse in efficiency to tag the trivial load of the 5V from the '10V' needed for the LCD display than to have a Vin - 5V switching converter.

regards
Bill

« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 08:15:58 pm by Bill W »
 

Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2021, 08:23:34 am »
Ok Bill. :)

When you indicate " - Fit R66 ".

Do you mean that a resistor has (also) to be settled on the PCB, between the two visible little silver pads (surrounded by the purple cirlcle)? This resistor is not already present?

If a resistor has to be settled, what is the value required for this resistor ?

Thank you for your patience....  :-[ :-[ :-[

I will try to do a proper scheme for representing a practical configuration with an external DC power supply and a video screen....

I keep on doing my homework.... :)

Regards.

Stéphane

« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 08:31:46 am by Lambda »
 

Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2021, 10:18:08 am »
Ok Bill. :)

When you indicate " - Fit R66 ".

Do you mean that a resistor has (also) to be settled on the PCB, between the two visible little silver pads (surrounded by the purple cirlcle)? This resistor is not already present?

If a resistor has to be settled, what is the value required for this resistor ?

Thank you for your patience....  :-[ :-[ :-[

I will try to do a proper scheme for representing a practical configuration with an external DC power supply and a video screen....

I keep on doing my homework.... :)

Regards.

Stéphane

Hi Stephane,

R66 can be a 0R0 or simply a wire link. (Will update website, thanks)

R66 is not fitted on the normal camera build of the PCB.  When I am making up cores for resale as 'volt-in video-out' I have to fit R66 as part of the conversion.

regards
Bill

Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2021, 05:00:39 pm »
Bill, ...

As a boomerang i am coming back for a new question....  :-[ :)

Concerning the chopper used in the Argus 3, it seems that:

- On one hand, it is made from a "full" frame with an opaque helicoidal shape, the remaining clear surface out of the helicoidal shape being "translucide".... (left chopper in the photo below (extraction from your website)
- On the other hand, you propose as spare part, an individual chopper configured to be used with Argus 2/3, but this one is made with the same opaque helicoidal shape, the remaining surface being simply empty (no translucide film, nothing, empty....)... (right chopper in the photo below (extraction from your website).


Why is there this difference (on one hand, clear aperture of the chopper being a translucide film, on the other hand, empty space...) between these two choppers...

As a small remark, i would imagine that the second version (clear empty aperture) would let pass through more LWIR light and allow to obtain more signal, with also a more sharp "on/off" alternance ?

In advance, thank you for your lights on this specific points (Fraser i am sure you would have also very interesting input also about such specificities...)

Cheers.

Stéphane
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 05:06:54 pm by Lambda »
 

Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2021, 06:19:35 pm »
The 'cut out' chopper was a very early version, I am not aware of any measureable difference in use, although as you say there must be some.
As dynamic range was a limit on BST for general use, maybe the loss was not considered a problem


I stayed with that image so it is obvious which pattern I have as spares - ie not the narrow spiral ones for Cadillac vehicle vision cameras.  In fact all my spares (now) are full film ones

Some people have bought them for Cadillacs and did not take me up on the return refund that I offered, so they must have been at least partly useable.

regards
Bill

Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2021, 09:16:04 am »
Hello,

Thank you Bill. Ok for this additional information for the chopper.

I dare to ask one more thing (the last? i can not promise...  :-[ :D ) .
I was again studying your website:

the part concerning the video control of the core of the Argus 3

http://www.fire-tics.co.uk/project3/index.htm

If i summarize well (not sure....), i understand the following:

- For people who wants to buy one of your spare core, you would reset the core for setting it in a kind of "fixed or automatic brightness and contrast control", which would allow to use the core in a stand-alone mode by itself, independently of any external informatic interface, for a DIY project ("Videoput/power in").
I suppose that for preparing the core in this sense, you will proceed following the idea given in the green frame (in combination with your notice to be read in the purple frame.

But,

- I see that there would be also a possibility to acquire a kind of "manual" control of the brightness and contrast by using potentiometers to be added.
such configuration allowing to obtain this control without using the RS232 port and any computer, external microcontroller, whatever...
See your teaching coming from the red underlined text in combination with the blue underlined text and frame.

I would like to know a bit more on this second point:

- what do you concretely mean by:

" Disconnet the DAC and set up DC control level externally via pots. See test points "gn" and "os". "

What i can imagine is that the idea is to substitute the analog signals normally delivered by the DAC (fed by the digital control signals produced by the computer), by analog voltages directly applied to specific input on the PCB of the core, while bypassing/disabling the DAC.... But:

- at which points (something related to "gn" and "os" i guess ? (one pot between "gn" and ground, one other pot between "os" and ground, other configurations?)
- what value of potentioneters, which voltage span, origin?

Sorry again for all these questions, but as you guess, i consider to contact you for buying one of your core in the "near future"..... i try to have a basic but correct understanding for my next project and would like to do things properly....

Thank you again.

Best regards.

Stéphane
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 09:21:46 am by Lambda »
 

Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2021, 03:04:03 pm »
Hello,

Thank you Bill. Ok for this additional information for the chopper.

What i can imagine is that the idea is to substitute the analog signals normally delivered by the DAC (fed by the digital control signals produced by the computer), by analog voltages directly applied to specific input on the PCB of the core, while bypassing/disabling the DAC.... But:
-

I was going to avoid the subject and only explore it when I get round to writing up about the Argus2 cores - which are analogue only and have some extra pads to make it easier.

However, since you ask...

The DAC is controlled by the Argus Control board over SPI, not the external computer on the BST RS-232. 

The control voltage is 0 - 5V, and there is a 5V supplied from the SECCA for this.  It is used on the MAX510 DAC as the reference input.
The 4 analogue control lines simply go to an ADC on the SECCA, so the selects can simply be 0R0 links while for the controls Raytheon recommend a 10k pot, but may be better if done as a chain (10k - 10k pot - 10k) as there is not much use at the far ends.

NameFunctionOperation
ABC ON / ENOSEnable offset control as manual or automatic0V = manual, NC or 5V = Auto
ABC SET / OSDCDC offset control level when under manual control0 - 5V
GNMODE / ENGNEnable gain control as manual or automatic0V = manual, NC or 5V = Auto
MNGN / GNDCDC gain control level when under manual control0 - 5V

regards
Bill

Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2021, 01:01:07 am »
Ok Bill, thank you for your disclosure. :)

I tried to do a kind of summarized scheme, based on one of your general photo of the PCB, with figuring how i would settle it, following your explanations, from the beginning, for a stand alone project, with gain and contrast manual control.
I have nevertheless difficulties to localise the ABC ON/ENOS and GNMODE/ENGN lines or terminals, and i guess i need to ground them (0V) for manual selection.

(for the voltage dividers, on a practical point of view i could use a unique DC source (the red one [7.5-9]V) and just adapting the ratio between the pots and hill-resistors for reaching a max of 5V for "gn" and "os"? i suppose there is little if not almost no current drawn in "gn" and "os" input ?)

In advance, thank you for correcting/completing, if you wish, my attempt.

(For the scheme and its readability, i just roughly reproduce the position of the terminal/input "gn" and "os", hidden behind the chopper...)

Regards.

Stéphane
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 01:05:14 am by Lambda »
 
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Offline Bill WTopic starter

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2021, 03:17:15 pm »

I tried to do a kind of summarized scheme, based on one of your general photo of the PCB, with figuring how i would settle it, following your explanations, from the beginning, for a stand alone project, with gain and contrast manual control.
I have nevertheless difficulties to localise the ABC ON/ENOS and GNMODE/ENGN lines or terminals, and i guess i need to ground them (0V) for manual selection.

(for the voltage dividers, on a practical point of view i could use a unique DC source (the red one [7.5-9]V) and just adapting the ratio between the pots and hill-resistors for reaching a max of 5V for "gn" and "os"? i suppose there is little if not almost no current drawn in "gn" and "os" input ?)

In advance, thank you for correcting/completing, if you wish, my attempt.

(For the scheme and its readability, i just roughly reproduce the position of the terminal/input "gn" and "os", hidden behind the chopper...)

Regards.

Stéphane

I would recommend using the 5V the SECCA provides'+5CONT' I think it is called, but may not be labelled up.  There may have been a reason that Raytheon said it should be used, like power sequencing.

I do not have the circuit handy just now but from the PCB image:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/argus-3-(bst)-teardown-and-repairs/?action=dlattach;attach=1212055

Pin 4 of MAX510 is the reference, so C26/C30 have the '+5VCONT' on them

There are series resistors for the 4 voltages are R49/R50/R51/R52 and decoupling for OS and GN (C23 / C24).
The ENOS / ENGN are the other two channels from the MAX510 that are not OS and GN.

I will look out the circuit and post back (sometime)

regards
Bill


 
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Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2021, 09:10:29 am »
Hello. :)

Just a short passage for keeping a trace in this small "log-book", following your last reply, Bill.

in the following scheme, i think i have at least spotted the 5V ref provided on pin 4 of the MAX510 by the SECCA, and a ground line GND.
Added also diagrams and pinout of a MAX510AEWE collected from the net...

I have now to figure out where are exactely the ABC ON/ENOS and the GNMODE/ENGN, for switching them (by grounding them if i understood properly...) in manual control of gain and offset.

I am focusing on your infos here, for this last point:

There are series resistors for the 4 voltages are R49/R50/R51/R52 and decoupling for OS and GN (C23 / C24).
The ENOS / ENGN are the other two channels from the MAX510 that are not OS and GN.

I will look out the circuit and post back (sometime)

Investigation is going on.

Thank you.

Best regards.

Stéphane
 
The following users thanked this post: Fraser

Online Fraser

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2021, 11:10:39 am »
Lambda,

Thank you for documenting your work so well. I am sure your posts will be very helpful to others in the future  :-+
It is so nice to see someone giving back to this community after asking for help  :-+ :-+

Fraser
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline Lambda

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Re: Argus 3 (BST) teardown and repairs
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2021, 11:43:06 am »
Hello Fraser. :)

Honestly  :-[  :), this is the least i can do for the community and you guys who are so helpful and good willing.

Here, I just try to re-draft a bit on my own "visual" manner the teaching of Bill.

Generally speaking, I like the idea to collect/share practical infos in a forum and to see it as a wonderful interactive archive or open "log-book"....

Best regards.

Stéphane
 


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