Author Topic: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T + teardown  (Read 16096 times)

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Offline 5370H55V

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2021, 07:01:16 pm »
Purchased one from the seller for £100. Requested a total from him with a message mentioning I was in the US and he was willing to ship it for an additional £35.
 
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Offline ArsenioDev

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2021, 07:03:05 pm »
Fraser,
I gotta dig up the code i had a while back that ran a Lepton 2.5 on a Teensy 3.2 at full frame rates, was a pretty good tech demo but now that I've got high performance thermals around it fell by the wayside.
It's somewhere in my archives
 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2021, 07:23:37 pm »
5370H55V,

Thanks for letting us know that the selelr will ship internationally now. Sadly the UK can be quite expensive for international shipping so I am not surprised that it is £35 to the USA.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2021, 07:40:27 pm »
The 'mystery' of the Klein Tools camera and its claim of >10,000 pixels has been solved. Their claim is true. Uni-T make a UTi120P model with 120x90 pixels.

https://www.uni-trend.com/meters/html/product/Environmental/Thermal_Imager/UTi80%20UTi120%20Series/UTi120P.html

Guide Sensmart make a miniature "TIMO" microbolometer with 120x90 pixels.... I wonder if this is used in the UTi120P ? The specs seem to match. Note the increase in frame rate to 25fps ... this is a definite pointer to a China sourced imaging core  ;)

Youtube video of UTi120P.....

https://youtu.be/77bFXmtWLmY

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 10:59:02 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2021, 07:58:34 pm »
The possible move away from the FLIR Lepton to a locally produced Chinese microbolometer core by Uni-T, when developing the UTi120P from the UTi80P predecessor, does not surprise me and is likely a very wise move. FLIR are a US company with all the red tape that such involves when buying microbolometer cores from them. The cost and supply is also dictated by the US which can be a significant issue when it comes to costing the products BoM and ensuring a reliable supply chain. The Guide Sensmart and Infiray (IRAY) imaging cores may be lower cost and they are made in China so easier shipping and communications between OEM and camera manufacturer.

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Offline kripton2035

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2021, 09:16:26 pm »
UTI120P is available at eleshop for €165 + VAT
https://eleshop.eu/uni-t-uti120p-thermal-imaging-camera.html
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2021, 10:01:43 pm »
Kripton5035,

Thanks  :) Once you get up to that sort of price, the UTi260B starts to look appealing though. The UTi260 uses the higher resolution Core from Infiray(IRAY) and I would look at that or the Infiray C210 camera. The only reason I considered the UTi80P was its compact size and the magic price point that made the deal worth it for me. For others it may make better sense to go for the UTi260B or C210 as they are very competitively priced.

Fraser
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Offline kripton2035

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2021, 06:37:04 am »
I'm afraid the UTi80P on ebay UK, plus shipping and vat and customs to France, will not be far in price from the european Eleshop UTi120P plus shipping and vat...
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2021, 04:12:55 am »
UTI120P is available at eleshop for €165 + VAT
https://eleshop.eu/uni-t-uti120p-thermal-imaging-camera.html

Damn, that's less than I paid for my UTi120P a few months ago.

I'm very happy with mine. I don't get how EEVBLOG isn't all over these cameras.

I wonder if mine is hackable to the higher resolution.  :o
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2021, 12:00:52 pm »
Fungus,

The budget end of the thermal imaging camera market has literally ‘exploded’ in recent years. The availability of relatively cheap imaging cores has driven this and new cores are being developed in China that will further improve the situation in the market.

The UTi80P is a novel design that sits in the ‘basic pocketable camera’ camp. We have seen the Lepton inside mobile phones, the FLIR C series and Seek Reveal and Seek Shot cameras. All of these are designed to offer basic thermal imaging functionality that fits easily in the pocket or tool kit. Sometimes you do not need or want a larger, bulkier, camera with you. It is a little like DSLR Vs Digital compact cameras ….. each have their pros and cons and are best suited to somewhat different roles. In the case of the UTi80P, it is a neat little unit but it is somewhat ‘resolution challenged’ for some tasks. It was such a pity that the higher resolution Lepton 3.5 was not used in it but that would have increased cost which may have been a factor. With the development of better, lower cost imaging cores by companies like Infiray (IRAY) and Guide Sensmart we are seeing more affordable cameras on the market. The UTi120P is a result of this core development and has better resolution….. but still falls short of the 160 x 120 pixels or higher that people are now used to seeing when a Lepton 3, Seek Thermal or InfiRay core is used. 120 x 90 pixels is definitely better than 80 x 60 pixels but since the UTi80P was released we have seen other cameras coming out of China that offer better “bang for buck” in terms of resolution, performance and functionality.   
I bought the UTi80P because it was offered to me for £99. That seems about the right price for me in terms of the units usefulness in my applications, so I bought it. I would not have paid much more than £99 simply because there are other, better, cameras on offer from Uni-T and Infiray for not a lot more money. That said, I would not have bought them either as I already have several similar cameras in my collection. The UTi80P is, IMHO, a niche product that appeals to some thermal camera users for its portability and simple measurement capabilities. The UTi120P is similar in this respect. Some members of this forum get excited about new thermal cameras that offer excellent imaging at minimum cost or at least lower cost. The Chinese cores are still not at bargain prices but the likes of the Uni-T UTi260B and Infiray C210 have shown that, at this end if the market, paying a little bit more than that being asked for a basic camera can gain the buyer a far more capable device. For a manufacturer, this budget end of the market must be a bit of a nightmare as he market is demanding cheap prices for traditionally expensive technology that can be relatively expensive to manufacture. Profit margins may be slim compared to other products produced in China.

For those who want “pretty pictures”, the UTi80P and UTi120P would not be the best choice in the current market. From my perspective as a user of these ‘tools’ for electronics etc, the resolution just needs to provide the data points in a scene that are useful to me in interpreting the situation. XVGA resolution is just not required ! Comparing a decent (Fluke) IR thermometer with the UTi80P, I would prefer the UTi80P as I gain thousands of data points of reasonable accuracy plus I can see the exact point on the target that I am measuring. Context of measurement can be very important. Using a standard IR thermometer, you are kind of working blind due to the crude “spot size on target’ approach to that simple single pixel based system. Handheld IR thermometers and industrial static mounted versions definitely have their place in equipment maintenance and monitoring but comparing a decent FLUKE IR thermometer price to a reasonably priced and budget thermal cameras price shows the price gap is narrowing !  :-+
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 12:27:58 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2021, 12:44:47 pm »
Fungus,

Regarding resolution improvement….

At the budget end of the market the FLIR E4 is pretty unique in terms of the upgrade that provides full microbolometer resolution and additional functionality. Clever people reverse engineered the firmware to discover the camera (dirty little) secrets. This was aided by the use of a non secure operating system by FLIR, namely Win CE.

FLUKE  use the same resolution hobbling approach on their thermal cameras but, to my knowledge, the firmware has not be reverse engineered to discover ways to release the cameras full potential.

The above cameras are expensive, even in their most basic versions. The modern low budget thermal cameras coming out of China are unlikely to use a microbolomter or core that exceeds the specification of the camera as that would potentially impact profit. There are cores that are offered in several resolutions so the OEM picks the core to suit a specific cameras specification. Recent camera releases from China tend to offer the best resolution that they can for the price point so are less likely to play the games seen with FLIR and FLUKE etc. The Infiray range of cores offer the Tiny1 core that is available in two resolutions, much like the FLIR Lepton core. The Sensmart Guide TIMO core comes in a single resolution of 120 x 90 and, from the UTi120P specifications, it would appear that this TIMO core is what resides inside that camera. It is already operating at its full resolution so cannot be enhanced in that respect. The UTi80P is an older design so all units sold are likely using the Lepton 2.5. Fitting a Lepton 3.5 is unlikely to work, as I previously stated.

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 12:47:58 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2021, 05:26:59 pm »
The camera arrived today  :-+

First impressions are good. It is better than I had expected  :) It’s diminutive size, similar to a 3 Metre tape measure, makes it very convenient to carry and it looks like it can survive a few bumps and knocks without breaking  :) Unit is brand new and includes the following…..

The thermal camera
Wrist strap
USB A to Micro USB Charging cable
16GB Toshiba Micro SD card
Micro SD card to SD card adapter
Semirigid carry case.
Instructions

 :-+
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 12:43:34 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2021, 06:29:55 pm »
The contents of the box  :)
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2021, 06:35:57 pm »
Some sample images I just captured and, of course, I took pictures of our cats as well as the ‘Coffee Cup’ test that I always do  :-+ We were having peas as part of our tea so I imaged them before cooking. Straight out of the freezer that is running at -22C ! Remember, this camera is specified to only -10C and calibration is not guaranteed outside the -10C to +400C specified range.

As I expected, the wide angle lens works against image detail but as you get closer to the target, the image captured improves. Now I do not know where the focus is set so moving closer to the target may improve the image in one respect (detail), the de-focus effect can degrade that image (blurring).

I shall have to experiment with the lepton focus point  :)

Fraser

Images to be added in a minute…….
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 11:33:12 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2021, 06:46:23 pm »
Our Lily in a monochrome palette  :)

Considering the FPA is only 80 x 60 pixels, I am pleased with the images that this little camera produces. The wonders of Interpolation eh  ;D The images are interpolated from 80 x 60 pixels up to 320 x 240 pixels. IRISYS used to interpolate up from 16 x 16 pixels to 128 x 128 pixels on their IRI1001/1011 cameras !

This camera is definitely very useable and not a toy. If you look closely at teh detail in the monochrome images you can see Lillys tabby markings that have different emissivity. I took these pictures of Lily at around 10 inches distance so likely seriously focus compromised.

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 07:43:18 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2021, 08:14:28 pm »
The image analysis software for the camera is nothing very sophisticated, but it does basic measurments etc.

I attach the PDF report that it produces.

The software does not offer file type conversion from BMP to JPG or PNG and it automatically activates centre, highest and lowest temperature markers whether you want them or not. In a word....basic  ;) Look at the PDF file size that it produces.... 1.7MB ! The BMP thermal image is only around 225KB so where does the rest of the file size come from ?

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 08:25:19 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2021, 09:14:12 pm »
I will carry out some basic checks on the camera to determine true minimum focus distance and the units suitability, or not, for PCB work when fitted with a 12mm ZnSe close-up lens. More to follow as I find time.

I did just try a 6" focal distance close up lens on the camera when viewing Lily and it did permit more detail to be seen on Lily's face, including her wiskers. I tried a FLUKE X2 telephoto supplemental lens as well but the results were not as expected so something is amiss with that combination of lenses.

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 12:45:56 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2021, 09:22:41 pm »
The picture I quickly grabbed of Lily with a very crude setup of me holding a 6" FL lens in front of the camera without perfecting focus as Lily was moving all the time !  ;D Note that her wiskers are easily visible in this image.

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 09:27:38 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Vipitis

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2021, 07:29:30 am »
It's a variation on how the Lepton looks. There is some blurry upscaling, but not as horrible as the default FLIR One results. I still prefer nearest neighbor and will never forget the results I had a few years ago with my first camera. The noise also feels a bit different, perhaps they don't run any strong noise reduction before upscaling.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2021, 09:22:50 am »
I will have a close look at the BMP file produced by the camera. I had to convert the images to PNG to post on the forum but I chose zero compression in the hope that it did not mess with the image too much.

So are you saying that interpolation is not being used and it is just some sort of pixel duplication approach ? If that is the case, it is a pity as interpolation can deliver impressive results if employed correctly.

Fraser
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Offline Vipitis

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2021, 10:10:03 am »
Even nearest neighbor (=duplicating pixels) is interpolation. That's not the case here. They use some filter afterwards. I believe the most common one is biliner (look at adjacent 4 adjacent pixels) or bicubic (look at 8 adjacent pixels). There is a bunch of options, but the basic ones aren't computationally expensive.


I really want to take a course on image (and video) compression, but haven't found one yet.
 

Offline jeremy

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2021, 11:33:45 am »
I forgot to post and say thanks to Fraser for sharing this; I picked up two of them shipped to Australia. Looking forward to the pocket form factor.

I really want to take a course on image (and video) compression, but haven't found one yet.

Look up "Discrete Cosine Transform" in any moderately advanced signal processing course, but be warned, compression is very mathematics heavy. There are however lots of course notes and example code available online.
 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2021, 11:34:54 am »
Vipitis,

I know nothing about how interpolation is achieved in thermal cameras so I did some reading on how IRISYS approached the challenge of turning their 16 x 16 pixel scene into one providing 128 x 128 pixels. It sounded like an impossible task but the ‘before’ and ‘after’ images showed the power of interpolation when true optical resolution is lacking. From memory the system they employed worked something like this….

Pixel 1 has a value of, say ‘100’
The pixel to the left has a relative value of ‘50’
The next pixel to the left has a relative value of ‘0’

The interpretation of the three pixels is that the middle pixel is half illuminated by the scene as it has ‘0’ to its left and ‘100’ to its right.
In order to be half illuminated it must be getting the illumination from its right side as that is where the strongest ‘signal’ is present. The algorithm carries out the same comparison all around its pixel to determine delta T transition points and which side of a pixel the energy is positioned. The algorithm then calculates a value of a virtual pixel that would sit between real pixels. In the above example I suppose a virtual pixel of value ‘75’, or something like that, would be placed between the middle pixel and that to its right and another virtual pixel would be placed between the middle pixel and the one to its left, but the chosen value may not be the obvious ‘25’ as, remember, the middle pixel is believed to be half illuminated on its right side so a virtual pixel to its left needs to reflect the likely gradient across the middle pixel. The virtual pixel may be assigned a value of only ‘5’ for instance. This is a massive simplification of course as there will be pixels all around the three detailed here and they influence the virtual pixel values too. Done properly, this form of resolution enhancement can be very effective and repetition of the interpolation process may be undertaken to create larger pixel count outputs. The problem with this multi-interpolation pass approach is that the original pixel data can become effectively corrupted if not protected from change. Interpolation of this type adds visual enhancement but adds nothing in terms of real data points. Virtual pixels are just a ‘best guess’ after all. In a nutshell, the IRISYS interpolation method was able to determine from what side, or sides, thermal energy was illuminating a particular pixel by using the signals coming from the 8 pixels around it. Virtual pixel valued could then be placed between the central pixel and the 8 surrounding it…. That was then repeated across the whole array.

I will see if I can find the paper that was written by IRISYS describing the interpolation that they used. From memory the process was used in their people counters as well as the IRI1001/1011 cameras.

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 12:01:24 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2021, 11:38:55 am »
Jeremy,

Thank you.

I am not a lover of maths ! I use ‘operational maths’ to get through life and cope fine at the practical level. I avoid the maths heavy signal processing stuff as it hurts my brain  ;D

My overly simplified IRISYS interpolation process is likely a mathematical nightmare in real life and the paper I read was for the layman so even had pictures to help explain the process  :)

I will leave the maths heavy areas of image processing to those who love maths :)

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: Cheap new basic thermal camera on eBay - Multicomp / Uni-T
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2021, 11:46:26 am »
As a side note, my PM series cameras apply some form of interpolation when the eZoom function is used. This seems obvious of course as the output image size remains 320 x 240 pixels on the viewfinder, but the image quality is far better than I have seen on other thermal cameras that are in X2 or x4 eZoom mode. I did an experiment with eZoom comparing an image at 0.5m from target and then at 1m from target but with eZoom X2 enabled. It was hard to see a difference on the display between the two images unless you took a close look at the fine detail.

Fraser
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