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Author Topic: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread  (Read 150509 times)

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Offline lwi004

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #175 on: December 22, 2017, 03:03:37 pm »
Hi Fraser,

at present it's about seeing what might reasonably be achievable and deciding if it's a route worth taking. Thereafter, yes we could do "proper" testing thereafter! Sadly my E4 was a version 2 something firmware and I couldn't extend the temperature with the hidden setting...


Do you know if there are any "tapes" one can use instead of paint? For lower temperature I use this one but it's only rated to 250C
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thermometer-accessories/1252269/

Thanks again
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #176 on: December 22, 2017, 03:10:18 pm »
Ouch! That tape is expensive.

In the industry normal PVC electrical tape is used as that has good Emissivity. Sadly the temperatures you are looking to create will fry most common tapes that I would use. There are high temperature Mylar and Kapton tapes but you would need to test their Emissivity using a simple boiling water test. Set your cameras Emissivity to 0.96. Place the tape on a baked bean (or similar) tin of boiling water, measure the waters temperature using a thermocouple, or you could just view the water with the camera (water Emissivity is good), then view the tape on the outside of the tin with an Emissivity setting of 0.96. If the readings are reasonably close, it is a decent Emissivity tape and you can test it further to determine its actual Emissivity in order to enter its value into the camera.

More on that from me if needed.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 03:13:54 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #177 on: December 22, 2017, 03:23:39 pm »
If you are located not too far away in the UK I may be able to bring some of my thermal cameras and ResearchIR 4 Max along for a test at some point in your development. I am thinking of the fast frame rate FLIR E60 and A40 cameras. I also own fire fighting cameras that are capable of measuring very high temperatures at 30fps.

Fraser
South Midlands
UK.
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Offline lwi004

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #178 on: December 22, 2017, 03:25:46 pm »
yes it was a silly price. I hadn't considered the Kapton tape and I have enough of that. Anyway I reckon that reel, should last me a few years anyway!! Sadly Mylar and Kapton Tape isn't rated much above 250-300C.

Used typical electrical tape to begin with but as temp went higher and the glue became a mess, decided to invest in something else!

Currently working in Switzerland though!!! Thanks for the offer.


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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #179 on: December 22, 2017, 03:30:49 pm »
No problem..... I would not mind a trip to Switzerland  ;D

All the best

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #180 on: December 22, 2017, 03:45:19 pm »
Some more ideas for Emissivity enhancers are to be found here......

http://www.flir.com/science/blog/details/?ID=71556


I still think a coating on the PCB is possibly the most effective treatment. You could experiment with simple children's powder paint or even coat the board with candle soot ! The coatings need not be permanent. FLIR even mention Scholl foot powder as a possibility ! Once tested, the coating may be rinsed off using water or a safe solvent.

I know you have concerns regarding dielectric strength so obviously that needs to be considered.

Fraser
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Offline lwi004

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #181 on: December 22, 2017, 03:56:49 pm »
Again thanks for the links. For test purposes dielectric strength isn't particularly critical. Just paints etc to always clean up etc is a pain. I'll look into the powders etc. Or at least just put a splodge of paint on, but wonder if that might cause a hotspot...

Oh well, will carry on testing etc.

All the best
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #182 on: December 22, 2017, 06:59:55 pm »
Regarding a 'hot spot', no this should not occur with a coating of paint as the emissivity is being increased leading to a greater efficiency in thermal radiation. Hence why shiny plain aluminium heat sinks offer inferior performance to those coated with a high emissivity finish. Forced air cooling can lead to hot spots in areas not in the cooling air stream however.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 07:51:33 pm by Fraser »
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Offline lwi004

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #183 on: December 22, 2017, 08:32:45 pm »
Thank you again. You're right. I had never thought it properly through!!
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Offline theBigK

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #184 on: January 07, 2018, 05:14:55 am »
So if I want dual use for this flir, one for automotive diagnostic and one for electronic PCB repair, can I have the 3D printed lens adapter + the laser lense, is it difficult to swap a few times a day. Or should I avoid doing that
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #185 on: January 07, 2018, 10:49:39 am »
The various lens holders for the E4 are easy to fit and remove.

The alternative is to have a lens focus tool printed and adjust the focus as needed. This works well but some users dislike the idea of adjusting the focus point set at the factory. In truth that is just a rough set focus optimized at 4 metres and relying upon depth of field for adequate focus at other distances. For Automotive use the standard focus setting may be adequate or you may wish to bring the focus down to your normal operating distance when working in the engine bay etc. It would be worth having the close up lens and the focus tool as neither cost very much. The E4 lens can be adjusted to focus very close for PCB inspection work. The ETS320 detailed elsewhere on this forum is just an E series camera chassis and lens in a different outer casing. It is used for PCB inspection as a dedicated tool. Focus is factory set at 70mm with +-10mm depth of field in that unit.

There is a very nice lens holder and focus tool detailed in this threads recent postings ......

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-wifi-resolution-and-menu-hack-thread/425/


Direct links to 3D files:

Holder:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2108075


Focus tool:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:188896


Fraser
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 10:59:05 am by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #186 on: September 17, 2020, 12:00:19 pm »
I am just raising this thread from the dead in case it is useful to newcomers to the forum  ;)

Fraser
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Offline calel

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #187 on: September 17, 2020, 04:29:51 pm »
k so I take it this the right thread

so as I was saying, anyone know if the hack in this link: https://web.archive.org/web/20190409142550/https://fubar.gr/hacking-the-flir-e4/ (which only works on 2.3.0 if I'm not mistaken) also disables the cam's noise generator?
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Offline EthanSpitz

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #188 on: July 18, 2021, 06:56:31 pm »
Continuing on the useful stuff, I wanted to share that I modified one of the FLIR E4 lens holders to add tabs to assist in removing.

It's based on this from thingiverse: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:683107

I converted it to a solid and added on the tabs, here is the solid file which can be exported as an STL

https://cad.onshape.com/documents/48808614b9599f5c34653a5c/w/415ebb503c4f5b42dd3a97fe/e/92a6f1940ab5b5c777ae7b4b
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Offline Bud

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #189 on: July 19, 2021, 11:01:07 pm »
Thanks, i actually have one of the original design, using it fairly often.
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Offline GSJ

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #190 on: December 19, 2021, 09:30:07 am »
Quote from: Fraser on January 23, 2014, 10:41:12 pm
External Charger disassembly & detail


I have disassembled my FLIR E4 external charger to establish the quality of the design.

The rubber coated case is held together with a single screw under the ID label at the bottom of the charger. The base is a combination of metal and rubber. Construction is good and looks like it will last. The soldering is not the best I have seen and the excess flux has not been removed from the manually soldered micro USB connector. The unit is made in Malaysia.

I can advise that it is a standard 3 contact (NTC) Li-Ion charger design as will be seen below:

The main components contained within the charger are as follows (along with the common ID where known)

1. 1L4001  =  Linear LTC4001 Battery management IC. 2A charger with Timer & NTC sense input.
2. MNAB ZC5 = T.I. LMC555 - Yes the venerable 555 (CMOS version).
3. UL46 = USBLC6-4 TVS diode array for USB2.
4. PZ = Not known but possibly BZB84-B33 Zener diodes
5. G3A = Diode

The data sheet for the charge manager (LTC4001) is attached. This details all that is needed to build your own charger, or to understand the FLIR design. The battery contains only an NTC thermistor of value 10K Ohms. No other 'management' is contained in the battery pack. It will have a protection circuit for the cell though.

The input connector for power is the same awful micro USB type as on the Ex, but at least it does not need to be unplugged often. A micro USB car charger may be used to produce a car charging pod for those on the move. The LTC4001 is tolerant of current limited power supplies.

For those wondering, the 555 timer just provides the low frequency drive to make the blue LEDs flash during charging.

Note the charging contacts. They look like they belong on a Canon Li-Ion battery charger. It may be possible to convert such a charger with relative ease but it may need its protection timer adjusted to take account of the Ex battery capacity.

The metal moulding in the bottom of the charger is a heat dissipator plate that is sinking heat from the LTC4001 via the PCB ground-plane. Not the most efficient design but it does not get very warm so appears adequate.

The component on my T127715-E PCB is burned. I need some help to find proper replacement.
I assume that the answer is in quoted post, but I'm not sure. Is it maybe Zener diode?
The picture shows burned component near timer for LEDs.
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #191 on: December 19, 2021, 04:37:06 pm »
The attached are the datasheets for all the components that I identified when I looked at the charger design. I may have a schematic somewhere but I did not find it with the datasheets in my archive.

The components that are fried on your charger were marked "G3A" on my unit. That is quite a common marking and i di not think I identfied a specific datasheet for that part. If theer is another component with teh same marking on your PCB that is nor damaged, you can identify what it is by test. There is an identical component leading to the 555 timer on my PCB. Alternatively your can reverse engineer the circuit around the 555 timer IC. If in the output circuit they will be either diodes or transistors. The role will not be demanding so generic replacement parts will be useable. You need to consider why the original component(s) burned up though.

Fraser

« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 12:25:14 pm by Fraser »
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #192 on: January 19, 2022, 12:21:06 pm »
I am often being asked about the FLIR E4 and upgrades etc.

I am dusting off this old thread in case it is of use to anyone. It is from a long time ago when I was more involved in ‘all things E4 related’ but much of the content remains valid today. I discontinued adding to this thread as my focus moved onto other cameras etc.

I sold both my E4 cameras a while back as my E40(E60+) replaced them in my lab.

Fraser
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 12:24:53 pm by Fraser »
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Offline charlyd

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FLIR E4 - parts wanted switch or switchpanel
« Reply #193 on: August 21, 2022, 08:59:15 pm »
hello i am looking for the switch or switchpanel. from the Flir E4 63901
in detail my "BACK" SWITCH IS BROKEN.

how can help me ?
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Offline Marekx89

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #194 on: December 11, 2022, 01:53:15 pm »
Hello, i have focus adjustment tool, but when i try focus, i dont see changes. What i do wrong ?
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #195 on: December 11, 2022, 02:27:00 pm »
Make sure the tool is engaged in the lens properly. Some 3D printed tools are a tight fit whilst others will not fit properly due to a poor print.

Be assured, if you are actually rotating the lens barrel, you WILL see a significant change in focus for very little movement as the focus travel on these cameras is very short.

Fraser
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Offline Marekx89

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #196 on: December 11, 2022, 04:47:17 pm »
I create mark on lens, i see change when i focus, but not change on display. At focus, work it only on non MSX mode ? Because lens adjuster block digital camera
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #197 on: December 11, 2022, 04:57:22 pm »
YES, the focus adjustment is only changing the focus of the thermal imaging camera and does not change the visible light camera focus that creates the MSX edge enhancement data.

Use the focus tool when working in "thermal only" non MSX mode to see its effect. Trying to do close up work with MSX switched on can be challenging due to the parallax error that occurs at close range.

Fraser
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Offline Marekx89

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #198 on: December 11, 2022, 05:38:04 pm »
Ok, i see change, my lens has been very unscrew.
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Offline tske

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Re: FLIR E4 - The useful information thread
« Reply #199 on: April 18, 2025, 11:14:03 am »
Quote from: Fraser on November 18, 2013, 02:04:42 am
Serial Number recorded against calibration date and firmware

Serial Number   Calibration Date   Firmware

6390 27xx              20 Sep            1.17.7 Note: Hardware Version is E4 1.0
6390 2xxx              20 Sep            1.18.7
6390 3xxx                  ?                 1.18.7
6390 35xx              30 Sep            1.18.7
6390 3xxx              30 Sep             1.18.8
6390 3xxx              01 Oct             1.18.8
6390 37xx              02 Oct             1.18.7
6390 38xx              02 Oct             1.18.8
6390 3xxx              03 Oct             1.18.7
6390 48xx              25 Oct             1.18.8
6390 5xxx              23 Oct             1.18.8
6390 5xxx              28 Oct             1.18.8
6390 5xxx              28 Oct             1.19.8
6390 55xx              30 Oct             1.19.8
6390 63xx              07 Nov            1.19.8
6390 65xx              09 Nov            1.19.8
6390 68xx              11 Nov            1.19.8 E4 V1.0
6390 686x              13 Nov            1.19.8
6390 688x              13 Nov            1.19.8
6390 ?                   19 Nov            1.19.8
6390 76xx              21 Nov            1.19.8 E4 V1.0
6890 77xx              22 Nov            1.19.8
6390 7xxx              25 Nov            1.19.8
6390 83xx              27 Nov            1.19.8
6390 84xx              28 Nov            1.19.8
6390 85xx              28 Nov            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6390 86xx              29 Nov            1.19.8 E4 V1.1  (H/Lines on visual image at low bat)
6390 88xx              02 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6390 89xx              03 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6390 9xxx              04 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1 (UI Crash/Screen Noise. Cold boot OK)
6390 970x              09 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6390 971x              09 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6390 974x              09 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6390 975x              09 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 01xx              12 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 0xxx              13 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 0xxx              17 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 0xxx              20 Dec            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 16xx              07 Jan 14        1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 17xx              07 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 23xx              16 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 25xx              18 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 260x              18 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 261x              18 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 266x              20 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 267x              22 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 269x              ?? Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 272x              21 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 273x              21 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 283x              22 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 286x              22 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 29xx              23 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 36xx              29 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 369x              29 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 3xxx              30 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 408x                 ??               1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 408x              04 Feb           1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 44xx              29 Jan            1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 44xx              05 Feb           1.19.8 E4 V1.1
6391 444x              05 Feb           1.19.8 E4 V1.1
Not in Camera @    05 Feb           1.21.0 RELEASED on FLIR web site - Built 13 Jan COUNTERMEASURED 
6391 46xx              7 Feb             1.21.0 E4 V1.1L First reported countermeasured camera
6391 47xx            14 Feb             1.21.0 E4 V1.1L    
6391 475x            ?? Feb             1.21.0 E4 V1.1L    
6391 49xx            17 Feb             1.21.0 E4 V1.1L                                                        
6391 494x            ?? Feb             1.21.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 500x           10 Mar             1.21.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 613x           25 Feb             1.21.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 69xx           ?? Mar              1.21.0 E4 V1.1L
                           10 Mar             1.21.0 Hacked
Not in Camera @ 10 Mar             1.22.0 RELEASED on FLIR web site
                           10 Mar             1.22.0 Hacked
6391 7xxx            ?? Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 84xx            11 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 85xx            11 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 851x            11 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 85xx            12 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 853x            12 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 86xx            12 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 862x            12 Mar             1.21.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 86xx            13 Mar             1.21.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 89xx            13 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 9xxx            14 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 95xx            16 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 989x            20 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6391 996x            20 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L

6392 0xxx            25 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6392 019x            21 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6392 023x            21 Mar             1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6392 17xx            03 Apr              1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6392 21xx            08 Apr              1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6392 29xx            11 Apr              1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6392 4xxx               ?                   1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6392 5xxx            28 Apr              1.22.0 E4 V1.1L
6392 54xx            28 Apr              1.22.0 E4 V1.1L

Not in Camera @    18 May           2.1.0 RELEASED on FLIR web site - Built 16 May

6392 85xx            23 May             2.1.0 E4 V1.2L
                                                         
                                                           

As can be seen, there are four Firmware versions known to exist (Superceded - see updates)

1.17.7
1.18.7
1.18.8
1.19.8

A Fifth Firmware is rumoured to exist (1.20.3) but this has not been independently verified.
Update: As the report of a 'countermeasured' fimware 1.20.3 is now old, and 1.19.8 is still being deployed by the factory as at 4 December, the report must be considered bogus. A possible Trolling attempt on the part of a mischievious person.
It would appear that the latest confirmed Firmware Version, 1.19.8, was released on 28 October 2013 if the calibration date is used as the date reference. 1.19.8 is not available to download from FLIR at the time of writing.

I will continue to update this list as and when new details are submitted by owners.

UPDATE 11 Dec 13

It is now confirmed that two E4 versions exist. E4 V1.0 and E4 V1.1. The differences have yet to be identified and investigated. Both versions are currently using the 1.19.8 firmware and remain open to user 'enhancement'.  (as at 03 Dec 2013)

UPDATE 05 Feb 14

FLIR have just released firmware version 1.21.0. Built 13 Jan. No release documentation detailing changes from previous versions. Recommendation.... DO NOT INSTALL this update until more is known about it.

UPDATE 05 Feb 14 follow up

It has been confirmed by 'Taucher'. FLIR FW 1.21.0 has been designed to hamper/prevent the enhancement of the Ex series cameras. See here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg382081/#msg382081

UPDATE 20 Feb 14

The first reported E4 with firmware 1.21.0 installed carried a 7 February 2014 calibration date.
It is worthy of note that the camera had a Hardware version of 1.1L. The meaning of the L suffix is not known at this time, but could indicate a hardware change to counter upgrade attempts.

Update:
Latest known E4 with FW 1.19.8 is  : 6391 444x  05 Feb 1.19.8 E4 V1.1

UPDATE 10 March 14
First signs of a successful hack on the 1.21.0 firmware. See the Teardown thread.
New firmware released on FLIR web site ! Version 1.22.0. No change needed to hack.

UPDATE 18 May 14
First signs of a new firmware 2.1.0 built 16 May 14. Yet to appear in a camera.

UPDATE 30 May 14
First report of E4 with FW 2.1.0 s/n 6392 85xx. New hardware revision of 1.2L Cal date 23 May 14

UPDATE:

Collection of serial numbers and firmware versions has been suspended as of 5 July 2014. I will not be adding any more data to this Posting.
What's the difference among those hardware revisions?
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