Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown

[andy1read]

Using a OTG cable that has an extra cable for an external power source would overcome the problem of having no 5v on the cameras micro usb,to power a usb WIFI dongle, wouldn't it? Would just mean having to strap a little 5v battery power pack to the camera.

[amyk]

You could periodically swap the charging screen with an inverted version, if you didn't want the image to burn in.

What's why I'd love to see a teardown images of an Exx-series TIC - for reference what WIFI was used there...

I've been waiting for exactly the same thing. For the same reason!

Anyone examined the firmware yet? The drivers would give a good clue what it is...

[Aleksander]

I am planning on using this on a multirotor to help the local Red Cross during SAR.
To transmit the picture to the ground I would prefer to have a video-out port, something that seems to not be avaliable.
To solve the problem I have been thinking about using a RasPi, connect to the E4 via USB, and use it as a USB-webcam to video converter.

The questions I am left with are:
Is there a video out on the PCB somewhere in the E4?
would I be able to adjust some of the settings via the USB? switching between FLIR, normal camera and MSX is the most useful I can think of right now.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I am planning on using this on a multirotor to help the local Red Cross during SAR.
To transmit the picture to the ground I would prefer to have a video-out port, something that seems to not be avaliable.
To solve the problem I have been thinking about using a RasPi, connect to the E4 via USB, and use it as a USB-webcam to video converter.

The questions I am left with are:
Is there a video out on the PCB somewhere in the E4?

No. USB via UVC is the only simple way. Hardware conversion from LCD interface wouldn't be too hard though - strap a video DAC on a board plugged into the LCD connector. Just need to check that framerate is something sensible, and maybe need to deal with the 320x240 timings - worst case you'd need a small FPGA to do a simple scan-rate conversion.
And there is the 60fps raw sensor datastream if you're feeling adventurous. Main issue with this is you need to do all the calibration, scaling, noise filtering etc. yourself

would I be able to adjust some of the settings via the USB? switching between FLIR, normal camera and MSX is the most useful I can think of right now.

Probably - you can certainly generate keystrokes via the console (either vis USB/RNDIS or the UART on the internal connector), there may also be an rset command to select image mode

[Fraser]

@Aleksander

1. It would be worth searching for videos of such usage on YouTube. There are some that I have seen there using 9fps. You need to decide whether 9fps is adequate in terms of image quality with movement. 60fps is recommended for such uses. 9fps tends to give OK images when the aerial platform is hovering, but not so great when it is moving.

2. AFAIK the E4 does not have a useable video output anywhere on the PCB. Only the raw digital data stream coming out of the micro-bolometer module. USB webcam mode is the only route for extraction of video from the E4 demonstrated to date.

3. If you are considering USB control, you will need a wireless USB link. They are available but tend to have short range due to the data rates involved.

4. A 'Heath Robinson' approach to video output could be constructed using a small PCB camera observing the LCD screen of the E4. A bit like the old Oscilloscope camera idea.

5. A better choice for your 'drone' would appear to be one of FLIR's tactical models designed for hunting and maritime use. They will still be 9fps but they are 'torpedo' shaped and offer composite video output on the outside of the case. You may find one cheaply on the internet as some users may have upgraded to better models or even an E4 !

http://www.flir.com/cs/emea/en/view/?id=42106

If the Autoliv AUDI and BMW FLIR Tau based cameras (30fps) could be made to operate without the control box, they would be an excellent choice for an aerial drone. Maybe that is why they are locked down  Mike is looking into the possibilities that such units offer. We may get a definitive answer on that front in the future.

[Aleksander]

My plan was to mount this on a stabilised camera gimbal, I currently have a Sony NEX5 on it (video of it here: http://youtu.be/WYpcbq3oqEg) 
So the current plan is to mount a cut down (removed handle and battery) E4 with E8 firmware on the gimbal and have a RasPi up in the air, and maybe input a RC-servo signal or more to the RasPi to control the camera, I might connect directly to the buttons on the E4 to control it from the ground, time will tell.

I liked the idea about replacing the LCD with a DAC, so I might have to look into that option..
So I basically want to use the E4 just to get a <$1000 core with 320x240 resolution.
If using USB only gives 9fps, what FPS does the camera feed to the LCD?

[mikeselectricstuff]

The other thing to consider is the lens on the E4 is probably rather wide to be useful on an aerial platform.

For something small & light, the FlirOne may be worth waiting for, as that may solve all your requirements in one go

[mikeselectricstuff]

My plan was to mount this on a stabilised camera gimbal, I currently have a Sony NEX5 on it (video of it here: http://youtu.be/WYpcbq3oqEg) 
So the current plan is to mount a cut down (removed handle and battery) E4 with E8 firmware on the gimbal and have a RasPi up in the air, and maybe input a RC-servo signal or more to the RasPi to control the camera, I might connect directly to the buttons on the E4 to control it from the ground, time will tell.

I liked the idea about replacing the LCD with a DAC, so I might have to look into that option..
So I basically want to use the E4 just to get a <$1000 core with 320x240 resolution.
If using USB only gives 9fps, what FPS does the camera feed to the LCD?

Haven't checked but 60hz is a common LCD refresh rate, but as it's only 320 wide, the line rate is probably too slow to easily get it to composite without some messing. If you can get some custom code running, it may be able to tweak the LCD timings on the MCU, but at best you'd probably end up with a rather squished image.
 I think the visible cam feed has a higher framerate then the 9Hz thermal.
For visual use (i.e. no measurement) it may not be too hard to process the raw sensor stream into something useable with a small FPGA, though you'll probably need at least a frame buffer, both for scan conversion and flat-field correction.

[Aleksander]

Ok, thanks for all the advice so far.
I think I need to plan this out some more, the extra cost of an alternative module might be worth it after all...

[Fraser]

@Aleksander,

Have you considered buying a used fire fighting thermal camera ? I bought several for prices between GBP30 ($45) and GBP200 ($300). Most need some TLC due to a hard life but the good points are that they are often just a small aluminium chassis inside a larger heat and water proof case    I have several ISG Talisman Wasps that are built in this way. Once you remove the bulky case and non essential parts they come down to the compact BST head and a couple  of small PCB's. Now the really good news...non tube based Fire fighting cameras are usually at least 320x240 resolution with 30 or 60 fps refresh rate    They usually have decent Germanium optics as well ! 

As a bonus, most have both internal video displays AND composite video output on an external socket. The Talisman series and many others also offer an option for a 1.3GHz or 2.4GHz long range video transmitter for communication back to a command and control centre at an incident. I have not checked to see if that option is fitted in my units but it is easily added anyway. My Talisman Wasps also include a X2 electronic zoom function activated by a simple button press.

The joy of fire fighting thermal cameras is that they are well designed with fully automatic operation and most of the features needed for a Drone deployment 

Have a look at your local auction sites and see if you can find yourself a bargain. Be careful buying off eb*y as some of the fire fighter cameras sell for silly prices and if they do not work you take a risk of wasting your money. I repair them for fun so that issue was not a problem for me. You may wish to ensure the camera actually works before buying. Avoid a Pyro Vidicon based camera like the EEV ARGUS 1 (Yellow Case) as its internals are too bulky and sensitivity is lower than the later BST based cameras such as the ARGUS 2 (Black case) Even the ARGIS 2 is a little bulky inside. Look for an ISG Talisman Wasp or Elite if you can finds one. Avoid the pyro Vidicon standard Talisman for the same reasons as the ARGUS 1.

Final comment... most of the 320x24 pixel 30 and 60 fps fire fighter cameras are subject to ITAR regulations so be careful if trying to export out of the USA.

[Dekker]

Long time lurker, read about all posts in this thread.

Noticed talk about wifi/bluetooth which I wouid love so I can share what I found the other day just browsing through my backup files I took before applying the hack.

from: FlashFS/system/services.d/config.d/conf.cfg

Code: [Select]

.caps entry
.caps.config entry
.caps.config.name text "srvs E4"
.caps.config.revision text "1.0"
.caps.config.wlan entry
.caps.config.wlan.enabled bool false
.caps.config.bluetooth entry
.caps.config.bluetooth.enabled bool false
# ID 639XXXXX
# CRC01 XXXXXXXX

could that be the settings for appcore to load the drivers for wlan/bluetooth?

[nazar404]

Thank to all the FLIR E4 has been working great ! I wonder now if the same can be done with the E40 to update the firmware to have the options installed of the FLIR E60 !!!

Has there been any such postings or updates!

Best Regards to All

[john19]

Somebody had to do it. 360 degree panorama:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/qtvr/irpano/irpano.html
(Worlds first?)

You can choose flash or devalvr viewer in the pulldown menu at right bottom, and I highly recommend devalvr if you have windows, although it requires a small plugin (very easy to install).
Fullscreen is best of course (with devalvr). You can zoom with the mouse wheel.

It consists of 126 stitched images, and since it was a pain in the *** to do I wish in retrospective I had chosen a more more intresting subject, but I think it turned out ok anyway.

[calle]

Somebody had to do it. 360 degree panorama:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/qtvr/irpano/irpano.html
(Worlds first?)

You can choose flash or devalvr viewer in the pulldown menu at right bottom, and I highly recommend devalvr if you have windows, although it requires a small plugin (very easy to install).
Fullscreen is best of course (with devalvr). You can zoom with the mouse wheel.

It consists of 126 stitched images, and since it was a pain in the *** to do I wish in retrospective I had chosen a more more intresting subject, but I think it turned out ok anyway.

mighty cool!

[pomonabill221]

Using a OTG cable that has an extra cable for an external power source would overcome the problem of having no 5v on the cameras micro usb,to power a usb WIFI dongle, wouldn't it? Would just mean having to strap a little 5v battery power pack to the camera.

I am going to try exactly what you are talking about...
I ordered a battery pack (POWER BANK ROSEWILL RCBR-13001) from the egg (they are giving a $6 promo this month) and am going to fab a data cable from the battery to the E4 (since I doubt the data lines are used in the battery), and break out the +5 going back to the "output" port that will go to my laptop... similar to the cable you have a picture of.
We'll see!

[pomonabill221]

Somebody had to do it. 360 degree panorama:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/qtvr/irpano/irpano.html
(Worlds first?)

You can choose flash or devalvr viewer in the pulldown menu at right bottom, and I highly recommend devalvr if you have windows, although it requires a small plugin (very easy to install).
Fullscreen is best of course (with devalvr). You can zoom with the mouse wheel.

It consists of 126 stitched images, and since it was a pain in the *** to do I wish in retrospective I had chosen a more more intresting subject, but I think it turned out ok anyway.

VERY nice!!!  You can even see the path that people have walked.
What time of day was this?  Is the dark area where the foot prints are, grass?
Thanks!

[john19]

Somebody had to do it. 360 degree panorama:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/qtvr/irpano/irpano.html
(Worlds first?)

You can choose flash or devalvr viewer in the pulldown menu at right bottom, and I highly recommend devalvr if you have windows, although it requires a small plugin (very easy to install).
Fullscreen is best of course (with devalvr). You can zoom with the mouse wheel.

It consists of 126 stitched images, and since it was a pain in the *** to do I wish in retrospective I had chosen a more more intresting subject, but I think it turned out ok anyway.

VERY nice!!!  You can even see the path that people have walked.
What time of day was this?  Is the dark area where the foot prints are, grass?
Thanks!

It was in the middle of the day. It was cold (-10 degrees Celsius) and the ground was covered in new snow. That's why you can see the foot prints because the ground is warmer than the snow. The brick walls nearby are also warm. Just a day ago it was +5 degrees C.

[john19]

It was in the middle of the day. It was cold (-10 degrees Celsius) and the ground was covered in new snow. That's why you can see the foot prints because the ground is warmer than the snow. The brick walls nearby are also warm. Just a day ago it was +5 degrees C.

Here is a part of the panorama in normal light:

http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/visible.jpg

[pomonabill221]

Somebody had to do it. 360 degree panorama:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/qtvr/irpano/irpano.html
(Worlds first?)

You can choose flash or devalvr viewer in the pulldown menu at right bottom, and I highly recommend devalvr if you have windows, although it requires a small plugin (very easy to install).
Fullscreen is best of course (with devalvr). You can zoom with the mouse wheel.

It consists of 126 stitched images, and since it was a pain in the *** to do I wish in retrospective I had chosen a more more intresting subject, but I think it turned out ok anyway.

VERY nice!!!  You can even see the path that people have walked.
What time of day was this?  Is the dark area where the foot prints are, grass?
Thanks!

It was in the middle of the day. It was cold (-10 degrees Celsius) and the ground was covered in new snow. That's why you can see the foot prints because the ground is warmer than the snow. The brick walls nearby are also warm. Just a day ago it was +5 degrees C.

Well... BBRRRRRR!!!!
Oh really??? +5C!  a REAL heat wave!  ha!
Thanks for posting!

[fairuse]

@tauncher
 I read some pages on the wifi link, from what I understand,  they were talking about fitting a wifi chip inside, which something I wouldnt want to attempt myself.
 Is it possible for the E4 to recognise and use a usb wifi dongle?

Extremely unlikely. Firstly the USB port does not output 5V, so almost certainly no host/OTG support in hardware.
The Flir models that have WiFi (teardown anyone?) will most likely use an internal module, probably on a UART or SPI interface, though could be USB.
AIUI USB wifi dongles tend to rely heavily on software running on the host, so again unlikely and if it did have support, chances are it would only be for a specific chipset.

Thank to all the FLIR E4 has been working great ! I wonder now if the same can be done with the E40 to update the firmware to have the options installed of the FLIR E60 !!!

Has there been any such postings or updates!

Best Regards to All

I'm interested in the possibility of turning the E40 into a E60 with firmware hack too. I'm guessing the hack isn't too much different than the hacking a E4 into a E8.

I'll be in possession of a E40 pretty soon, and I'm willing to do a tear down. I don't really have much in terms of equipment to do direct signal readings or ripping out IC chips. Best I could probably do is just upload detail pictures of the expose PCB and hopefully the IC labels are clear.

[mikeselectricstuff]

@tauncher
 I read some pages on the wifi link, from what I understand,  they were talking about fitting a wifi chip inside, which something I wouldnt want to attempt myself.
 Is it possible for the E4 to recognise and use a usb wifi dongle?

Extremely unlikely. Firstly the USB port does not output 5V, so almost certainly no host/OTG support in hardware.
The Flir models that have WiFi (teardown anyone?) will most likely use an internal module, probably on a UART or SPI interface, though could be USB.
AIUI USB wifi dongles tend to rely heavily on software running on the host, so again unlikely and if it did have support, chances are it would only be for a specific chipset.

Thank to all the FLIR E4 has been working great ! I wonder now if the same can be done with the E40 to update the firmware to have the options installed of the FLIR E60 !!!

Has there been any such postings or updates!

Best Regards to All

I'm interested in the possibility of turning the E40 into a E60 with firmware hack too. I'm guessing the hack isn't too much different than the hacking a E4 into a E8.

I'll be in possession of a E40 pretty soon, and I'm willing to do a tear down. I don't really have much in terms of equipment to do direct signal readings or ripping out IC chips. Best I could probably do is just upload detail pictures of the expose PCB and hopefully the IC labels are clear.

I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't possible to hack the Ex0 in a very similar way.
It will certainly be very interesting to compare the internals.
Looking at the specs, the E40,50 and 60 look like the same hardware, but E30 looks like it's  missing the wireless & other hardware
 

[Taucher]

...

No. USB via UVC is the only simple way. Hardware conversion from LCD interface wouldn't be too hard though - strap a video DAC on a board plugged into the LCD connector. Just need to check that framerate is something sensible, and maybe need to deal with the 320x240 timings - worst case you'd need a small FPGA to do a simple scan-rate conversion.
And there is the 60fps raw sensor datastream if you're feeling adventurous. Main issue with this is you need to do all the calibration, scaling, noise filtering etc. yourself

would I be able to adjust some of the settings via the USB? switching between FLIR, normal camera and MSX is the most useful I can think of right now.

Probably - you can certainly generate keystrokes via the console (either vis USB/RNDIS or the UART on the internal connector), there may also be an rset command to select image mode

@Changing mode via USB/Rset -> definately possible and pretty easy - just compare recursive rls output before and after switching

.caps.config.ui.fusion.enabled would be one of my first tries

btw...
rset .caps.config.ui.mode.enabled true
rset: not supported

Any ideas on that one - adding it to the e8 config (.caps.config.ui.mode.enabled bool true) doesn't seem to do the job 

EDIT: selected stuff that's changing when switching MSX to IR:

.image.state.current = "FUSION" or "HCF" or "FREEZE" --> "LIVE"
.image.sysimgInstances.main.fusion.fusionMode = 3 --> 1
.ui.state.fusionMode = "HCF" --> "ZOOM"

.image.framegrab.fusion.cmd               "STATE_FREEZE"  -> "GRAB_LIVE"
Note: .image.services.nuc.commit = true ... while dumping MSX... so likely the above is related to NUC

[Rasz]

@tauncher
 I read some pages on the wifi link, from what I understand,  they were talking about fitting a wifi chip inside, which something I wouldnt want to attempt myself.
 Is it possible for the E4 to recognise and use a usb wifi dongle?

Extremely unlikely. Firstly the USB port does not output 5V, so almost certainly no host/OTG support in hardware.

Its somewhat easy to check
http://blog.binaryninjas.org/?p=116
This emulates devices connected over USB and checks host response = gives you a list of devices host knows how to enumerate.

[daves]

For those who are interested in BFIC application, which can do what Flir Tools cant... New version is out.
This is last echo about new version, since this version will notify you about new version, when you are online.

Whats new ? More palettes to use, faster conversion and interactive editor ! Under development of course

You can download on link at footnote bellow. Make copy of your old version in case something will go wrong with new one !

Feel free to comment, share, use ... give ideas ... send me bugs => PM me or email me.

[Hypernova]

For those who are interested in BFIC application, which can do what Flir Tools cant... New version is out.

Getting corrupted image output.

Win7 x64