Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
241 (26.5%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
427 (46.9%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
43 (4.7%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
41 (4.5%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
158 (17.4%)

Total Members Voted: 751

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 2665077 times)

KD0CAC John, lou and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7025 on: May 24, 2015, 01:35:47 pm »
Guys,

I have so far tried two VLC versions... 2.2.1 (latest) and 2.010 (2014)

Both failed... Bud, can you tell exactly what software and version are you using to stream?

@SeanB

Did you actually try the 2.2.1 version with streaming video from E4? Any success report?

The guide I have found on Flir site, also doesn't work... they also do not tell the exact software and version number... it looks different from both the 2.2.1 and 2.0.10, I couldn't recognize it and interface seems different...

UPDATE:

Managed to stream from VideoUSB device, but still not able to record (lack some M4 encoder?)
It is streaming true DirecShow Filter at 3 fps, quality is bad,  spatial and temporal noise.

Maybe it is because the unit got too warm (it shows 44C on the inside sensor while ambient temperature is over 30C), but I remember clearly in the night when it was 10 degrees below, there wasn't that many spatial pixelization (not removed by calibration proc).

Maybe put it into fridge for a while ? :0

Joking :) DO NOT DO THAT!!! it will condensate water vapor on sensor... :(




« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 02:54:02 pm by Solare »
 

Online Bud

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7026 on: May 24, 2015, 03:01:56 pm »
As i said i used VirtualDub to record my videos.
I think codecs may need to be installed separately and i used couple generic codec packages from the Net.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7027 on: May 24, 2015, 05:19:51 pm »
B.t.w.,

I found this line in calib.rsc:

measureInfo.temporalMk double 26.017904

As far as I understand this is actually measured temporal average noise during calibration cycle?

If so, could you guys please share which number you have in this line?

Just for comparison... it's easy - RNDIS, ftp, view file in notepad, find measureInfo.temporalMk and post the value :)

No need to change, download or decrypt.

Let's start the value survey :)

P.S:  Can I CHANGE calib.rcs without bothering CRC032 changing?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 05:28:39 pm by Solare »
 

Online Bud

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7028 on: May 24, 2015, 06:04:52 pm »
I do not think touching anything in calibration is a good idea. I never did.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7029 on: May 24, 2015, 07:18:35 pm »
@Bud,

well, maybe it wasn't that bad idea :)

I took that risk and altered calib.rcs file without altering the CRC. The device didn't brick!

I have progress - I have further reduced spatial pixelation (temporal I reduced in my previous session, see above), including raw noise and calibration stability by factor of 3 at least. After all, I only have this nasty horizontal lines like from humming on old TV and since all other noises were reduced and this one - not, it is now the main contributor :)

Well, how I did that? Naively, as always...

I discovered there is default calibration data for the Z3 camera in the folder.

I pinned my attention to the fact that double float values in actual calib.rcs files are mostly, replica from the same resource keys in the default file, but ... they are trimmed by factor of 100 in decimal accuracy. So, actual calib.rcs uses the same default values, but of smaller numerical precision. I therefore assumed that this would lead to numerical instabilities of all sorts, lower calibration accuracy (spatial) etc.

I copied the values from the default calibration files into matching keys of actual calib.rsc files and voila! I have it after reboot.

ATT.: to those who are seduced to try this!

Always backup!!!! :)

This will not increase sensitivity or reduce temporal noise. This only improves calibration cycles and makes it hold longer and more accurately. In my case, I have over 1 minute stability in 2C temperature span (10 seconds before this modification were enough for spatial noise start to emerge noticeably, so had to always calibrate in a dark isothermic room :)

As a bonus, I can now see my shadow in matte surfaces in isothermic environments... this is pretty faint signal actually, and before it was not possible to notice.

Thanks all for your neverending help, support and understanding,

I am carrying on further experimentation!

TODO: remove those fracking horizonal temporal raws noise.



« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 09:22:47 pm by Solare »
 

Online Bud

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7030 on: May 25, 2015, 01:43:21 am »
I can now see my shadow in matte surfaces in isothermic environments...

Yikes! Spooky... Now watch ghost hunters coming in droves to buy E4s
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7031 on: May 25, 2015, 11:03:11 am »
@HiVoiltage:
Yes, it is pretty hackable... just be aware that particular sensor in your E4 may differ a lot, as I learned... if you are lucky, you get sensor from E8, then you'll get clear, nice picture. If you are not lucky, it will be bad sensor, noisy... yes, the hack will increase resolution to 320x240, but it is questionable benefit, unless your sensor is good... this is lottery :) no way to know before you buy. As I said, Flir removed possibility to measure noise in 2.3.0, so you are helpless mostly in fine tuning :(

Hello Solare,
Thanks for that feedback. I just ordered an E4 here in Germany and should get it in the next few days.
Before I attempt any hacking, is there a way of finding out if I have the good quality, high resolution E8 sensor installed?
Thanks for any feedback
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7032 on: May 25, 2015, 01:39:27 pm »
@HighVoltage,

High resolution is there, by design.

However, without good signal to noise ratio (low noise) this is more a toy than a tool.

After the hack will remove 'artificial noise'm you are left on your own with your particular sensor sensitivity and S|N .
If these are high and low, you are a king. If these are low and high, you are a looser :)

As far as I can tell there is a way to tell before actually applying hack. You'll need to install SetRNDIS.permanent.fif, reboot, open FTP client and look at the noise levels which where measured actually during calibration procedure. In 2.3.0., you only have TemporalNoise total. Good sensors will show 15 mK there, while bad sensors will approach 30.

Pretty good difference in visual comparison, especially if, as in my case, main contributor to the total is raw and column noise, which are usually smaller than pixel noise.
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7033 on: May 25, 2015, 02:04:25 pm »
Good sensors will show 15 mK there, while bad sensors will approach 30.

calib.nrdp.ds250C_we_ap_fi_le.measureInfo.temporalMk double 14.203512  ;D  :-+
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline leoibb

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7034 on: May 25, 2015, 03:33:40 pm »
Hmmm,

just playing with my converted E4 looking out of my window at people passing by (I live on 8th floor so it is observation from 20 meters height, at the distance over 50 meters away). It was early evening and surrounding temperature was 25.

I was expecting to see walking bodies glowing white in Iron palette(assuming these are not zombies) as I believed their temperature is well above 30C. But they didn't glow white! Then, I used 'color above threshold' palette so they should appear red, while the surroundings should remain gray.

I was surprised to see that all people in my area are actually zombies, because they didn't trigger the threshold anyway... they were of course not naked, but close to that at such temperature, but they appeared only slightly warmer than surroundings, so I had to set the threshold to 25.5 before they started to emerge red in grey.

At this distance, a typical figure of man is 12 to 16 pixels high, 6 to 8 pixels wide. Quite enough I would say for successful detection. Meanwhile, my own body, although observed from 10 meters in mirror, shows 35.4 C and 36.6 with the camera at the closest possible point.

Question: are they really zombies or something is wrong with measuring distant objects temperature? 50 meters are clearly not enough for factors like humidity come into play.

P.S> I expected that even a single pixel measurement will trigger the threshold, no matter how cold the surrounding pixels are... but now I assume some interpolation or statistics is applied to a group of pixels and, basically, it results in some limiting gradient value along the chosen direction or what?
I have the same thing . How far can these see as from what I can see not too far really . Anyway of improving distance
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7035 on: May 25, 2015, 03:34:25 pm »
Lucky...

Guys I need more statistics! Please submit as PAOPBZ did!

Report your Noise value as:

set RNDIS -> FTP -> FlashFS/System -> Calib.rsc -> calib.nrdp.ds250C_we_ap_fi_le.measureInfo.temporalMk
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7036 on: May 25, 2015, 03:44:18 pm »
@PAOPBZ

Can I have your calib.rsc file and conf.cfg file for a closer look analysis?

You can get conf.cfg by decrypting it with Python scrips cfccfgV2.py (search on this Thread exactly match) with your SUID, which is shown on web-interface (192.168.0.2 most likely or 192.168.1.2).

cfccfgV2.py SUID conf.cfc conf.cfg in case you didn't know.

Thank you!
 

Offline alank2

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7037 on: May 25, 2015, 04:49:01 pm »
...
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 03:13:42 am by alank2 »
 

Offline TurboTom

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7038 on: May 25, 2015, 06:02:33 pm »
On my 1.19.8 F/W model, I've got a temporal noise of 14.899144 mK in the calibration file. Added 05/27/2015: F/W 1.19.8, H/W 1.1. May add row / Column noise later... Added 05/29/2015: Well, here it is, right from the internal test and calibration menu:

Temporal noise  MilliKelvin Digital Units
Pixel Noise    15.19    1.29
Row Noise    9.81    0.83
Column Noise    9.11    0.77


Spatial noise      MilliKelvin    Digital Units
Pixel Noise    9.55    0.81
Row Noise    2.58    0.22
Column Noise    4.49    0.38
Uniformity    207.72    17.66


Total noise      MilliKelvin    Digital Units
Pixel Noise    13.36    1.14
Row Noise    5.26    0.45
Column Noise    5.26    0.45


Btw, since some other owner reported they "updated" their old F/W camera accidentially, I've also done that but was able to return it back to the original configuration with some tricks... Please look up my old posts from maybe five months ago.

Cheers,
Thomas
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 11:17:18 pm by TurboTom »
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7039 on: May 25, 2015, 07:09:26 pm »
Thank you all!

More reports, please!
 

Offline stefbeer

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7040 on: May 25, 2015, 08:19:01 pm »
.calib.nrdp.ds250C_we_ap_fi_le.measureInfo.temporalMk double 13.422328
 

Offline leoibb

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7041 on: May 25, 2015, 08:38:24 pm »
Can anyone tell me if there is a magnification lenses which can be clipped on for distance ?
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7042 on: May 25, 2015, 08:53:27 pm »
I can remember only one post dedicated to telescopic system for E4... not actual, really... long ago. Unless really expensive, it will be long tube difficult to attach, which will turn image upside down :)

@All

Please, participate in this short survey about NoiseMk value in calibration file.

So far, I am absolute looser with mine... good idea also to add camera hw version and fw vesion to this data

Thank you!
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7043 on: May 25, 2015, 09:00:13 pm »
@Leoibb

What you describe is called a telescope lens and none are presently publicly available for the Ex series.

I have commercial X2 and X3 lenses and can advise that they are very expensive and do not 'clip on' to the Ex series. They cost several thousands of US Dollars new and several hundred on the secondary market.

Your challenges will be in finding appropriate lens elements at affordable prices plus making the telescope assembly and a docking ring for the E4 camera.

Aurora
 

Offline leoibb

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7044 on: May 25, 2015, 09:17:00 pm »
Thankyou for the replies. Appreciated  :-\
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7045 on: May 25, 2015, 10:44:03 pm »
@Aurora

I have wrote a PM for you, but there was a glitch during submitting it, so I am not sure if it was sent actually?

Thank you!

 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7046 on: May 25, 2015, 10:47:10 pm »
Nothing received

Aurora
 


Offline OrBy

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7048 on: May 26, 2015, 01:20:26 pm »
If I am reading that right - you can get a Lepton with shutter for $131USD. Wow. I wonder if anyone is working on a portable project like Mike did to just plug one in and have a little mini imager on the cheap?
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7049 on: May 26, 2015, 02:15:59 pm »
We may soon see the Lepton 160x120 available via retail outlets as well. That will certainly be interesting and a great opportunity for all manner of bespoke projects  :)

Aurora
 


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