Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
241 (26.5%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
427 (46.9%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
43 (4.7%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
42 (4.6%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
158 (17.3%)

Total Members Voted: 751

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 2668959 times)

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Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7150 on: June 19, 2015, 07:37:15 pm »
So I may just have bought 5x E5s off eBay for a total of £500... Tbh, I doubt it's legit but PayPal has my back. They're coming from China so I'm expecting a brick in a box!

If they all do miraculously turn up, who wants a cheap E5?

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Offline alank2

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7151 on: June 19, 2015, 07:38:53 pm »
Taking a Chanc3 on it?  :)  I hope it works out for you!
 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7152 on: June 19, 2015, 07:41:50 pm »
Haha, I did indeed! I actually bought them all with the intention of letting a few go on here for cost, then using the rest for training and keeping one for myself!

I have a little bit of hope that it's legit, but at the end of the day it's no loss for me :)

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Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7153 on: June 19, 2015, 07:54:10 pm »
Another 5 just popped up! Worth a punt!

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Online TopLoser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7154 on: June 19, 2015, 08:44:50 pm »
Another 5 just popped up! Worth a punt!

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Go on then, I'll have a punt as well :) PayPal takes the risk not me :)
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7155 on: June 19, 2015, 10:06:08 pm »
What did you guys smoke?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 10:42:06 pm by Bud »
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Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7156 on: June 19, 2015, 10:11:42 pm »
You never know! :D seller looks legit haha

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Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7157 on: June 19, 2015, 10:15:31 pm »
You are not telling us you just paid 500 pounds for actually, cats in the bag, are you?! What does it mean 'looks legit'? Was he a Chinese type of Jesus?  :popcorn:
 

Online TopLoser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7158 on: June 19, 2015, 10:23:21 pm »
PayPal has a problem not me...
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7159 on: June 19, 2015, 10:28:28 pm »
I don't get it...  |O Why you keep saying it's PayPal's problem? Does PayPal guarantee that you actually receive what is written by the merchant in the order line?! I thought, PayPal only guarantees the merchant will receive your money at the moment you receive what the merchant declares to be what is written in the order line. And it is not the same, because merchant may believe that the E5 with this image go without sensors t ex.. now how PayPal in any way could take responsibility on its own for the third's party declarations coincides with your expectations?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 10:33:03 pm by Solare »
 

Online TopLoser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7160 on: June 19, 2015, 10:44:42 pm »
PayPal treats sellers like crap and charges them extortionate fees.

PayPal treats buyers very well indeed, any sign of a problem and they refund your payment immediately. Buyer protection rules.

I imagine that before the day is out I'll get an email from PayPal saying they have cancelled the transaction and refunded my payment. If they don't then I have up to 180 days to report any issue.

 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7161 on: June 19, 2015, 10:46:20 pm »
You are not telling us you just paid 500 pounds for actually, cats in the bag, are you?! What does it mean 'looks legit'? Was he a Chinese type of Jesus?  [emoji14]opcorn:
They have been a member for awhile and has relatively good feedback!

Will post back when my rocks in a box turn up! Haha - only time I like paypal!

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Offline Bud

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7162 on: June 19, 2015, 10:49:55 pm »
PayPal has a problem not me...

That was what those folks were thinking in the "Best eBay deal ever ..." saga with multimeters (you can search the forum for it). Some ended up with "unpaid item" record in their eBay account.
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Online TopLoser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7163 on: June 19, 2015, 10:55:03 pm »
PayPal has a problem not me...

That was what those folks were thinking in the "Best eBay deal ever ..." saga with multimeters (you can search the forum for it). Some ended up with "unpaid item" record in their eBay account.

Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt(s). All unpaid items were deleted soon after. Buyers have SO got the advantage on eBay and with PayPal.
 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7164 on: June 19, 2015, 10:56:12 pm »
Only time I've taken a punt like this was with some 3TB drives. Seller promptly removed items, but PayPal covered them all.

Nothing to lose!

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Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7165 on: June 21, 2015, 02:36:38 pm »
As suspected, too good to be true :D will have to hunt for that elusive bargain.


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Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7166 on: June 21, 2015, 10:18:18 pm »
For those with a general interest in thermal camera technology, I provide a couple of links below to the reverse costing reports of the SEEK Thermal camera> The important detail is sadly blurred as they wish to sell the report for over $3000.

There are two versions of the report so I provide links to V1 and V2 in case there are differences.

V1:

http://www.systemplus.fr/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/S-C_RS201_Seek-Thermal-Camera_Sample.pdf

V2:

http://www.systemplus.fr/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/S-C_RS201_Seek-Thermal-Camera_Sample_V2.pdf

With reduced microbolometer manufacturing cost we will hopefully see a significant increase in affordable thermal imaging technologies for a range of uses. The SEEK camera has demonstrated that a Raytheon microbolometer with decent resolution may be viable at low cost of production.

Aurora
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7167 on: June 22, 2015, 10:36:00 pm »
Very interesting reports, Aurora, thank you!

However, from what I've seen on YouTube, the quality of the Seek Thermal image is inferior to Flir E8+... and this is not only due to halved number of pixels... the optics is also much smaller, and focusing is not perfect, image occurs as blurry as the reports are :)

More to that... I feel skeptical about microbolometer sizes sub 17 um... consider the wavelength of LIR upper limit - 14 um, when the size of sensor is smaller than the wavelength, image goes bad with Airy optical resolution limit effect... although theoretical value is 1/2 lambda, any microscope user would confirm that actually image starts to degrade at about 1.0 - 1.5 lambda. It is still possible to reconstruct (resolve) close pixels with heavy digital processing... however, this clearly wasn't done with Seek Thermal devices.

The E8+ is, on the other hand, an older technology with much larger pixel (~36 um if I am not mistaken), and that means that no image degradation due to wavelength limit is there even close. Indeed, with proper focusing, one can get each pixel clearly resolved and very sharp edges.

So I vote for the E8+, albeit it is much more expensive.

@All

guys, don't fall asleep! keep the Thread running! :)

I again call for your help with permanently set added Palettes... who knows what about this, how this could be done?

Thank you!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 02:15:50 pm by Solare »
 

Offline ixfd64

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7168 on: June 29, 2015, 06:30:39 pm »
It's interesting that FLIR hasn't released any new firmware in a long time. I wonder if they've given up on trying to stop people from hacking their cameras. :D
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 09:21:00 pm by ixfd64 »
 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7169 on: June 29, 2015, 06:53:45 pm »
It's interesting that FLIR hasn't released new firmware in a long time. I wonder if they've given up on trying to stop people from hacking their cameras. :D
It's more likely that they have been incredibly busy with the likes of the C2, moisture meter, One V2 etc. I suspect if things ever quieten down a bit... BAM new firmware!

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Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7170 on: June 29, 2015, 07:06:52 pm »
It would be fair to say that hacking a FLIR E4 is no longer the simple task that I enjoyed with Firmware 1.19. I suspect that the rate of end user upgrading has dropped off significantly since Firmware 2.xx was released. As far as FLIR are concerned, this likely is the end of the story for them. Equipment will always be hacked, it is the rate of occurrence that FLIR will have wanted to impact with their countermeasures. The Hack did not break ITAR so it was purely an internal policy matter. The cost of further Firmware development is likely now greater than the concern over the low hack rate.

Slightly OT but consider what has just happened in the FLIR Camp..... they have just released a new 2nd Generation FLIR ONE camera for both iOS and Android at an amazing price. That is to say, a 160x120 pixel FLIR thermal camera for your phone costing only $249. Being a FLIR product it should deliver on its promises, and so many potential owners of thermal camera technology may consider it a cheap way into the thermal world. It is, after all, at least a 1/3 the price of the E4, still has MSX, and possesses reasonable resolution....... all without the need to hack it. What is not to like ?

It will be interesting to see what FLIR does with its future line up of thermal cameras. I wonder if the 80x60 and 120x90 resolution units will be dropped in favour of new budget models having the cheaper LEPTON 160x120 pixel core and higher end units having conventional 320x240 cores. I am still VERY surprised that the new FLIR ONE is so reasonably priced yet the new C2 contains an original 80x60 LEPTON core at a far higher price point of ~$700. Weird, damned weird.

Interesting times

Aurora
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 07:12:49 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7171 on: June 29, 2015, 10:18:09 pm »
Ah... finally... somebody alive on this Thread :) I though, everybody's gone to Hawaii :)))

I am soon returning back to my dirty business with improving my E4 expierence... just wait :)

I was away for a while on a business.

Nice to see you guys!

P.S> Palettes?  >:(
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7172 on: June 29, 2015, 10:30:47 pm »
C2 is a tool, Flir One is a gadget.
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Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7173 on: June 29, 2015, 10:42:47 pm »
C2 is a toy, Flir One is a toy ;)

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Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7174 on: June 29, 2015, 11:02:59 pm »
@Bud,

So why did FLIR not place the 160x120 LEPTON core in their new cool "tool". That is the bit that confuses me.

At $700 it certainly deserves the higher resolution core. Maybe that will be in the C3  ;D

Aurora
 


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