Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
241 (26.5%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
425 (46.8%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
43 (4.7%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
41 (4.5%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
158 (17.4%)

Total Members Voted: 749

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 2650397 times)

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Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7675 on: February 06, 2016, 11:15:04 pm »
Indeed the E4 noise is very blotchy suggesting a low resolution itself which contributes to what is for a 320 a rather horrid image. 
IMO what's happening is that the noise is being generated THEN noise reduction is applied to the generated noise. Due to the high amount of noise the noise reduction is working overtime thereby generating the blotchy image.
 

Offline DaveWB

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7676 on: February 07, 2016, 06:50:14 am »
Downgrade confirmed working from 2.8.0 to 2.3.0 using the most up to date software version of Flir Tools which was 5.4.15351.1001.
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7677 on: February 07, 2016, 11:35:48 am »
I think we were all a bit surprised that the noise generator was active on the most expensive models, hence the concern about turning it off completely.
The E60 is not the most expensive Flir model, therefore also this camera is crippled  ;)

I wrote in 2013 something about the real sensor noise and the noise generator.
At that time it was possible to do some nice noise measurements with the "old" service menu.
The "hardware" pixel noise of my E40 was <30mK.


targetNoiseMk is a noise generator in mK (conforming with NETD/ thermal sensity in Flir Datasheets of the selected cam)
Formerly I stacked some noisy images with Registax or AviStax  to subtract out the randomly noise and it works great!!

after setting targetNoiseMk to zero, stacking of images don't improve results  :(

here a sample from a Flir E40 (old cam hacked formerly from 160x120 to 320x240)
in service menu I can measuring the noise

Code: [Select]
rset .caps.config.image.targetNoise.targetNoiseMk  60 (MilliKelvin)

 Temporal noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      61.28      12.13
Row Noise        14.84      2.94
Column Noise     13.67      2.71

Spatial noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      25.69      5.09
Row Noise         7.08      1.40
Column Noise      7.82      1.55
Uniformity      198.23     39.25

Total noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise       67.01     13.27
Row Noise          9.71      1.92
Column Noise      10.10      2.00


and now without noise (cam temperature is 25 Grad):
Code: [Select]
rset .caps.config.image.targetNoise.targetNoiseMk  0 (MilliKelvin)

 Temporal noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      19.85      3.93
Row Noise         6.39      1.26
Column Noise      8.64      1.71

Spatial noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      18.98      3.76
Row Noise         4.70      0.93
Column Noise      5.54      1.10
Uniformity      210.23      41.63

Total noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      28.96      5.73
Row Noise         5.76      1.14
Column Noise      7.66      1.52


see the differences (NETD is 0,03 °C @ 25°C)

Quote
http://gs.flir.com/surveillance-products/surveillance-technology/imaging-technotes/IR_Technology_Parameters
Uncooled infrared cameras systems are typically a little noisier, in the range of 30 - 120mK. Noise in an image can be spatial or temporal.
Spatial noise is noise across the image at any given point in time. It is perceived as an unchanging fixed pattern on top of the image.
Temporal noise is noise at any point in the image over time. It is perceived as the static that moves in an image.
NETD is typically the measure of both these noise types.

remarkably Flir dont't disable the noise generator at the top cams of a serie (Flir E4 -> E8 , Flir E30 -> E60)

I have a untouched config file from a E60 with 40mK noise
Code: [Select]
#
 # Generated at 2011-04-28 17:34:36
 #
.caps entry
.caps.config entry
.caps.config.name text "app E60"
...
.caps.config.image.targetNoise entry
.caps.config.image.targetNoise.enabled bool true
.caps.config.image.targetNoise.targetNoiseMk int32 40
...
 # ID 490xxxxx

The data sheet for E60 says the Thermal sensitivity (N.E.T.D) @30°C is 50mK.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 11:38:28 am by tomas123 »
 

Offline bookaboo

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7678 on: February 07, 2016, 11:50:47 am »
Interesting, thanks guys.
Sure does seem that Flir want to differentiate the mid range E40-E60 from the Txxx models using noise as a factor.
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7679 on: February 07, 2016, 08:08:29 pm »
Well,

Naturally device with bigger and especially, GE lens will perform better. However, big lens is only part of success in making temp. hi-res photos. Our baby E4 can perform very well if doctored in a proper way ;)

On the photo:

a wardrobe section with dresses, hangers and aluminium (gold anodized) shoulder, back surface is white PVC (matt).

Peculiarities:

- as I am taking the shot standing in front of it, I myself is big but poor IR lamp :) This creates contrast on shiny surfaces, while air micro-convection creates contrast for the dresses;

- notice reflection of camera itself and its sensor in the back white PVC sheet;

- aluminium, although anodized, looks colder. This is okay since even anodized aluminium has typical emissivity of 0.75
 
- thermal shadow of the shoulder on the PVC white back - doesn't appear on visual DC camera shot;

- camera reliably reads temp. difference of 0.1C between thermal shadow and the non-shaded area;

- overall temperature range shown is only 0.9C (autolevel);

- all objects are readable and recognizable, and blopping noise is moderate; most artifacts are JPEG compression (although I use 100 quality); in fact, on live scene these are minor part of the noise (so far I didn't manage picture to be saved in alternative format as PNG, while still be one file);

- no digital post-processing was applied, only gamma was corrected

0.9C vs. 1.1C:

Adding only 20% to the temp span, we gave it drastic improvement! I think, if I had 1.2C object, the quality would become comparable to E60 (under certain conditions). But I don't have a full pack of champagne bottles, unless you send me one for testing the camera (but I may not return it in full!)  :-DD

So don't blame our baby E4 for bad images, blame yourself for not giving it proper treatment :)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 12:08:40 am by Solare »
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7680 on: February 07, 2016, 11:31:10 pm »
you don't set the level to auto level ;)
but I see the same noise like in my E4 image above

I don't say, that this result is bad!



For hardware enthusiasts and pixel peepers I found my service menu noise measurements of my Flir E4 from 2014:
(compare with E40 two posts above)
Code: [Select]
\>rls .registry.caps.config.image.targetNoise
enabled                     true
targetNoiseMk                  0

\>rls .system.tempsens
TSBoard                  317.285
TSFpa                    316.633
TShutterDigFilt1       322.03729
TShutterDigFilt2               0

// Service Menu
Temporal noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      17.50      1.63
Row Noise      11.02      1.02
Column Noise      9.59      0.89

Spatial noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      12.51      1.16
Row Noise      2.71      0.25
Column Noise      4.32      0.40
Uniformity      178.43      16.59

Total noise        MilliKelvin      Digital Units
Pixel Noise      17.86      1.66
Row Noise      4.81      0.45
Column Noise      5.89      0.55

We get a better N.E.T.D of 18mK (opposite 29mK with E40) but the images of E4 are significant noisier.
I think, this is a result of the better F-Stop of the E40 lens.

this measurement results are rarely in this forum
google found with
Code: [Select]
site:eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown MilliKelvin Spatial noiseonly this post
On my 1.19.8 F/W model, I've got a temporal noise of 14.899144 mK in the calibration file. Added 05/27/2015: F/W 1.19.8, H/W 1.1. May add row / Column noise later... Added 05/29/2015: Well, here it is, right from the internal test and calibration menu:

Code: [Select]
Temporal noise  MilliKelvin Digital Units
Pixel Noise 15.19 1.29
Row Noise 9.81 0.83
Column Noise 9.11 0.77


Spatial noise    MilliKelvin Digital Units
Pixel Noise 9.55 0.81
Row Noise 2.58 0.22
Column Noise 4.49 0.38
Uniformity 207.72 17.66


Total noise    MilliKelvin Digital Units
Pixel Noise 13.36 1.14
Row Noise 5.26 0.45
Column Noise 5.26 0.45
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 11:46:16 pm by tomas123 »
 

Offline Solare

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7681 on: February 08, 2016, 12:06:58 am »
I updated the image to be autolevel as requested. To my view, it looks even better, regardless the fact it is 0.9C vs. 1.2C. try to estimate the radius of blob from your bottles and mine objects. It clearly don't appear to reach the E60, but close, very close.
 

Offline michaeliv

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7682 on: February 08, 2016, 07:47:41 am »
Hi, I have a FLiR E30 which I imported from a U.S. Supplier and its the full 30 fps version.
I would like to know if anyone else has done the E30 to E60 "conversion" on a 30 fps unit without it being then restricted to 9 fps. I can't find an explicit reference to fps in the config files ( I could have missed it ).
I don't know if the frame rate is hardware or software limited, but I would assume (don't like doing that) if it is a security requirement that it would be set by the hardware. Does anyone know this for sure?

Thanks
I used to have a Flir E30. I Upgraded it to a Flir E60. To do so I used the E60 config files, not the E8 config files. The frame rate obviously did not go down.
IMO(not backed up by anything) : The frame rate is hard-coded into firmware and not editable via config files. If you manage to hack the firmware you might be able to increase the frame rate but you will probably be limited by processor speed. The E4 sensor outputs native 60fps but the extra frame data is discarded.
 

Offline cuda12

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7683 on: February 12, 2016, 12:01:35 am »
I just sold my e4 that I had upgraded to an e8 to buy a e30bx that the person sold as hacked to an e60, and it is but the bluetooth when turned on shuts itself off in about 1 second so no bluetooth is possible, and the wlan can not connect to even open networks. I already backed up everything and my thoughts where to start from scratch but the info is not nearly as complete as doing an e4 so I was wondering if maybe there was something else to try before starting at the beginning. Thanks!
 

Offline tomtom007

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Flir E5: Application Error after hard reset H E L P !
« Reply #7684 on: February 12, 2016, 08:37:59 pm »
Hello,
I have an E5 with Firmware 1.22 and 1.1L Hardware. I made the hack as described. I works perfect. Then I made a hard reset by pressing the button for making photos while switching power on. The E5 makes a reboot and I got the Application Error massage. In the Windows is the following text: Application appcore.exe encounter a serious error and must shut down. When I press OK for closing the Windows, the E5 shows only the thermal Image. It is not possible to got to the menu and no key is working. Only the Power-Off Switch will work. Is there anyone who has an Idea??? Is there any file I have to erase or to modify? I stored the old files to the E5, but no results...

Today I solved the problem. I made a Firmware Update to 2.3.0 by Hand with the FLIRInstallNet Program. Everything works good!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 07:33:07 pm by tomtom007 »
 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7685 on: February 12, 2016, 09:04:47 pm »
It shouldn't have persisted after restoring the backup. Which files did you replace?

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7686 on: February 12, 2016, 09:05:48 pm »
I just sold my e4 that I had upgraded to an e8 to buy a e30bx that the person sold as hacked to an e60, and it is but the bluetooth when turned on shuts itself off in about 1 second so no bluetooth is possible, and the wlan can not connect to even open networks. I already backed up everything and my thoughts where to start from scratch but the info is not nearly as complete as doing an e4 so I was wondering if maybe there was something else to try before starting at the beginning. Thanks!
Try restarting it and applying the hack again.

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Offline sharpharp

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7687 on: February 12, 2016, 11:23:26 pm »
Hi all,

Just about to buy a new Flir e4, what is the current firmware they come with?

Can I do the downgrade to run the hack?

I read that the resolution can be upped to an e8, but what about the thermal sensitivity?
On the e4 it is <0.15, on the E6 onwards its <0.06 -Will the hack also unlock the thermal sensitivity?

Is there any other reason why to buy an E6 or E8 which can't be achieved by a hacked E4?

Also, a main dealer in the Uk told me that the E4 comes with the latest firmware which cannot be modified, is this correct?
 

Offline cuda12

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7688 on: February 13, 2016, 12:54:11 am »
Well I connected to the service menu 192.168.02 and it just shows the * sign at the spot where the bluetooth/wifi module is, so I guess I might not have the actual hardware in mine like some people have had. Mine is one of the last built of the e30bx units sept. 2013 in case someone is looking at buying one. I didn't really need the bluetooth just wanted it if you know what I mean.
 

Offline DaveWB

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7689 on: February 13, 2016, 09:04:48 pm »
Downgraded a 2.8.0 camera to 2.3.0 then upgraded it to 2.11 for the heck of it and then downgraded it again and it all worked perfectly, same method as downgrading a 2.8 camera.
 

Offline sharpharp

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7690 on: February 16, 2016, 01:40:18 am »
Hey guys,

Got my E4 today, its the following:

model: E4 1.2L
part number: 63901-0101
Software 2.3.0

Is this good for doing the hack?
 

Offline ElectricGuy

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7691 on: February 16, 2016, 02:08:30 am »
Hey guys,

Got my E4 today, its the following:

model: E4 1.2L
part number: 63901-0101
Software 2.3.0

Is this good for doing the hack?

Yes. Read first post!
Thank you!
Regards
ElectricGuy
 

Online Pinkus

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7692 on: February 16, 2016, 10:21:06 am »
Well I connected to the service menu 192.168.02 and it just shows the * sign at the spot where the bluetooth/wifi module is, so I guess I might not have the actual hardware in mine like some people have had. Mine is one of the last built of the e30bx units sept. 2013 in case someone is looking at buying one. I didn't really need the bluetooth just wanted it if you know what I mean.
yes, this will be the case. Somewhere (can't find it now) a serial # range was posted so you can check upfront if a E30 will come with or without the hardware for bluetooth and wifi.
 

Offline DaveWB

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7693 on: February 16, 2016, 03:13:25 pm »
Forget the e4... Get the new FLIR X6900sc with 1000 fps
 

Offline cuda12

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7694 on: February 16, 2016, 05:38:09 pm »
Well I connected to the service menu 192.168.02 and it just shows the * sign at the spot where the bluetooth/wifi module is, so I guess I might not have the actual hardware in mine like some people have had. Mine is one of the last built of the e30bx units sept. 2013 in case someone is looking at buying one. I didn't really need the bluetooth just wanted it if you know what I mean.
yes, this will be the case. Somewhere (can't find it now) a serial # range was posted so you can check upfront if a E30 will come with or without the hardware for bluetooth and wifi.
It's bugging me now so I am on the hunt for a e40bx to modify lol Thanks for the confirmation, I searched but did not find a serial number post on hardware.
 

Offline -jeffB

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7695 on: February 16, 2016, 06:40:04 pm »
Forget the e4... Get the new FLIR X6900sc with 1000 fps

Nah. No built-in display, non-ergonomic handle. It doesn't even plug into my phone.  ::)

Any idea what the price range will be on this? US$30K, or higher?
 

Offline DaveWB

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7696 on: February 16, 2016, 06:55:48 pm »
Haha yea I was just kidding but I'm sure the price is outrageous. I'd rather have 30 E4's...
 

Offline Hedis

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7697 on: February 17, 2016, 02:53:44 am »
Is it possible to modify the E40bx to a E60 and get the +650*C range or will it me limited to +120*C as the E60bx?
 

Offline DaveWB

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7698 on: February 17, 2016, 05:10:01 am »
Is it possible to modify the E40bx to a E60 and get the +650*C range or will it me limited to +120*C as the E60bx?
Probably, however there aren't many resources as to what firmwares are upgradeable
 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #7699 on: February 17, 2016, 07:01:46 am »
Is it possible to modify the E40bx to a E60 and get the +650*C range or will it me limited to +120*C as the E60bx?
You can enable new ranges in the service section of the camera (plug it in to PC via USB and go to 192.168.0.2 in Internet explorer).

Any new ranges that are added are not calibrated, thus the readings can be inaccurate.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

 


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