Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
236 (26.3%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
423 (47.1%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
42 (4.7%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
40 (4.5%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
157 (17.5%)

Total Members Voted: 773

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 2600783 times)

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Offline ysmalkie

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8075 on: December 21, 2016, 09:46:35 pm »
I did it ! Many thanks Mike and all! :-)
 

Offline Tine

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8076 on: December 25, 2016, 01:43:50 am »
Hey Guy's,
I'm very new with this topic and I was searching a little what is the best camera for less then 1000 bugs.
Therefore I'm strugeling to buy a new E4, but I'm not sure if it's possible to hack.
Is 2.11 the latest firmeware and is it possible to do the downgrade / hack with this version.

Does anyone have experience with this?


Thanks a lot for your feedback  :-+
 

Offline matus

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8077 on: December 26, 2016, 12:56:58 am »
Hey Guy's,
I'm very new with this topic and I was searching a little what is the best camera for less then 1000 bugs.
Therefore I'm strugeling to buy a new E4, but I'm not sure if it's possible to hack.
Is 2.11 the latest firmeware and is it possible to do the downgrade / hack with this version.

Does anyone have experience with this?


Thanks a lot for your feedback  :-+

Hi there,

I just bought E4 with 2.11 fw, and I can confirm, the hack is working without downgrade to 2.3. I used 2lps'  2.3 hack with modification for 2.11 fw. The hack takes only 15 minutes, and both resolution and menu mod works like a charm! Thanks 2lps!

Matus
 

Offline m4rkiz

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8078 on: December 26, 2016, 02:40:46 am »
my hacked e4 has shorter and shorter battery life, recently only half hour after overnight charging so i decided to replace its 18650 instead getting new battery from flir for 80 odd euros

i couldn't find any pictures except of internal pcb with protection circuits so here it goes:








i barely know anything about 18650 though, so is PANASONIC NCR18650B/ST a good replacement?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 02:47:25 am by m4rkiz »
 
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Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8079 on: December 26, 2016, 04:06:27 am »
As long as the voltage is the same (which it probably is) it should be fine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8080 on: December 26, 2016, 06:24:06 am »
This useful post showing the internal structure of the Ex battery pack will get lost in this massive thread. Do you mind if I add the pictures to the FLIR E4 Useful information thread where it may be easily found. The pictures will include appropriate attribution.

Fraser
 
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8081 on: December 26, 2016, 06:39:31 am »
I took the brass camera adaptor out of an old camera, and put it in the base of the battery, where the rubber spacer is, and used some superglue to hold it in. Now the camera has a tripod mounting point, and can be held firmly for use as a video camera over USB.
 
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Offline m4rkiz

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8082 on: January 01, 2017, 11:59:59 pm »
after replacing this 18650 with NCR18650B/ST i have just under 5h (4:43-4:57) runtime with screen set as 'bright' and with no pictures taken - great improvement over my 35-50 minutes, also that would indicate that my old battery had only quarter of original capacity after just four years

p.s. is there any reason to do any update of E4 1.0 firmware 1.18.8 with e4hack3b?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 06:38:32 am by m4rkiz »
 

Offline Bill W

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8083 on: January 02, 2017, 08:14:02 am »
also that would indicate that my old battery had only quarter of original capacity after just four years

Not uncommon for a Lithium Cobalt IMO.  Generally quoted as 300 cycles to 70% capacity, but there is a time factor as well.  If you can adjust it, try charging the slightly under the normal final voltage and it should last a lot longer, and you do not lose much time on each run.



Bill

Offline max-bit

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8084 on: January 03, 2017, 07:59:54 pm »
Does anyone have older versions of the software, eg 1.19.8
To share in the network?

.......
 

Offline plurn

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8085 on: January 04, 2017, 06:26:54 pm »
First post indicates that the e4 "has a 320x240 60fps sensor - same as the £4700 E8 model and even more expensive Ex0 series".

flir Ex series has maximum temperature reading 482°F  / 250°C
flir Ex0 series has maximum temperature reading 1,202°F / 650°C

If they are the same sensor, would there be some easy way for us to allow the E4 to be usable for seeing temperatures above 482°F  / 250°C ?
 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8086 on: January 04, 2017, 08:17:40 pm »
First post indicates that the e4 "has a 320x240 60fps sensor - same as the £4700 E8 model and even more expensive Ex0 series".

flir Ex series has maximum temperature reading 482°F  / 250°C
flir Ex0 series has maximum temperature reading 1,202°F / 650°C

If they are the same sensor, would there be some easy way for us to allow the E4 to be usable for seeing temperatures above 482°F  / 250°C ?

It might be possible on the older models to access the service menu where you can normally configure (and calibrate) the temperature ranges. I accidentally left a much higher range turned on, on a camera that didn't have it initially. I then had the calibration check carried out and it was 60°C off at 420°C! So yes, it failed! I had to call them and tell them to ignore the higher range haha.
 
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Offline T1

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8087 on: January 06, 2017, 08:19:07 pm »
Thank you all for making this possible.
Hacked successfully 1.2L 2.11 FW (windows xp sp3, using Fubar method and 2lps files).
I did only resolution hack.
I have some questions and maybe someone could answer.
Inside temperature readings seems trustable, but have some questions about outside temperature readings.
Outside air temperature was aprox. (-12'C).
Why does area temperature (where snow is located -bottom right corner) displayed as (-24'C). Temperature outside was stable and at least 3 hours after sunset. If I'm correct no material should be colder than (-12'C) . And if I point to sky, it's displayed as (-40 or even lower).
I understand, that I have to adjust emmisivity, reflective temperature and other settings to get trustable results.
I did check manual and there is some short explanation, but maybe somewhere on eev blog there is topic on learning to use camera, settings etc.
Thank you! (and sorry for my grammar)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 10:49:52 pm by T1 »
 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8088 on: January 06, 2017, 09:14:37 pm »
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the ice crystals could be reflecting some of the sky, which would give you much lower readings. Try changing the angle of measurement and see if that changes the temperature.
 
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Offline T1

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8089 on: January 06, 2017, 09:54:16 pm »
I do understand, that atmospheric radiation can cause interference in readings, but mostly objects were colder than air temperature, nomatter I pointed at brick wall or at building made out of wood, and did it from different angles, but wall temperature readings was colder than (-12'C).
Is this normal and I just have to change emissitivity settings, reflected temperature settings, distance settings, viewing angle and others, or is there problem with my camera.
In attachment - wooden building (same time,air temperature -12'C).
 

Offline Samogon

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8090 on: January 06, 2017, 09:57:50 pm »
In your picture it shows -8C  :-//
As skys at night cant radiate IR and can only reflect IR radiated by Earth surface your measurments are may be really influenced by many factors, like clouds etc.
 

Offline Samogon

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8091 on: January 06, 2017, 10:02:49 pm »
Yes reflection coefficient can play significant role in readings
 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8092 on: January 06, 2017, 11:43:38 pm »
Boil a pan of water and take a thermal image of that - and if you can also include the camera settings or thermogram, that would be useful.

 

Offline T1

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8093 on: January 07, 2017, 12:37:11 am »
Don't, have a pan at work...
Will try it at home.
What settings to use and where to point, when doing such a test, if I use stainless steel (polished) cookware?
Can I point at water directly and how close to 100'C should it be when boiling?
I'm aprox. 19 m above sea level.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 12:40:44 am by T1 »
 

Offline plurn

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8094 on: January 07, 2017, 12:56:32 am »
...
 but have some questions about outside temperature readings.
Outside air temperature was aprox. (-12'C).
Why does area temperature (where snow is located -bottom right corner) displayed as (-24'C). Temperature outside was stable and at least 3 hours after sunset. If I'm correct no material should be colder than (-12'C) ....

I have noticed some posts mention that E4 accuracy at cold temperatures can be terrible. For example:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg348622/#msg348622

If this is the case, I am not sure if it is the case from new or if it gets out of calibration over time? I don't know if this is the problem you are experiencing. You could search through this thread to try and find more info about this. Good luck.


edit: found another  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg348761/#msg348761

way outside the +-2% accuracy specification though it was not new - so maybe in need of calibration?

edit again:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg350039/#msg350039

"Some people may already know this but it was new for me and it surprised me a little bit, so I wanted to post it here.
Today I took a look at the datasheet for the E4 and it says as follows.

Measurement
Object temperature range   –20°C to +250°C (–4°F to +482°F)
Accuracy   ±2°C (±3.6°F) or ±2% of reading, for ambient temperature
10°C to 35°C (+50°F to 95°F) and object temperature
above +0°C (+32°F)" ...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg350062/#msg350062

"@stefbeer,

Good spot. I totally missed that important specification detail ! Or more accurately I misread it as a statement that the +-2.0C applied at above 0C ! To be truthful I wasn't buying for amazing accuracy so it wasn't of that much interest.

It makes it very clear that the camera has a specified accuracy only above 0C. FLIR do not calibrate the E4 below 0C, as others have suggested. 

My industrial Raytek IR thermometer actually refuses to measure any temperature below 0C as it would not be accurate at such temperatures.

From the lack of any accuracy detail below 0C in the specs of the E4, it would appear that any temperature shown is basically a 'best guess' and not to be trusted." ...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 01:32:35 am by plurn »
 
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Offline Chanc3

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8095 on: January 07, 2017, 01:00:16 am »
That looks fine to me!

I think it's just a case of interpreting the image with the snow. I live in the UK and on the coast so don't see much of it to comment!
 
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Offline T1

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8096 on: January 07, 2017, 01:39:07 am »
Thanks, plurn!
At least I know it's common issue in temperatures below 0!

Update:
Just tested (air temperature ~15'C).
If I set emissivity to 0.6 and reflected temperature -39, then I can get wall temperature -3'C (or even hotter), so I guess it's just matter of knowing/understanding what values/settings to use.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 04:02:18 am by T1 »
 
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Offline jmaja

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8097 on: January 11, 2017, 08:48:29 pm »
I just bought a new E4 calibrated in June 2016 with 2.11. The hack worked fine without downgrade and with all the menus working. Thanks for all involved! My E4 seems to have 85 dead pixels thus 99.89% are OK.
 

Offline fourtk

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8098 on: January 15, 2017, 10:31:11 am »
Hi all
Firstly a big thank you to all who have contributed to this hack and thread.

My story
I've been looking to get a TIC for a while but like everyone my budget and required spec were not matching up.
I found a second hand E4 at a very good price and while trying to compare specifications of the E4, E6, & E8 found this thread, decision made and deal done.
it had 1.22 Firmware, I downloaded

It took a lot of searching and reading(probably due to the older firmware version) before I tried to upgrade so here is a quick run through of what i did
RNDIS             http://cdn.cloud.flir.se/swdownload/assets/other/flir_device_drivers.exe
tools                https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg403480/#msg403480
betamenu 3     https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg326024/#msg326024
filezilla              https://filezilla-project.org/download.php?show_all=1

Then followed DaveWB's instruction video for 1.22 upgrade https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg409787/#msg409787

5 attempts later I was still ending up with poor resolution and no MSX
(I had issues with reconnecting the E4 each time I disconnected it having to do numerous cold reboots of the E4 and reboots of the laptop, also the IP switched between 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.2)

despite looking here various times still couldnt find a mistake with what I was doing

After more attempts and reading here I downloaded
cfc_generator from stefbeer              https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=86215

First attempt and I noticed it was generating a different CRC03 than I was getting in command prompt
Transferred the new conf.cfc with filezilla
Cold reboot and everything upgraded and working perfect.

Thanks again to everyone

Now I will have to investigate why I was getting an incorrect CRC03 with command prompt, could it be down to running 64bit windows 10?
I will update if/when I find an answer



 

Offline artanker

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #8099 on: January 15, 2017, 05:32:08 pm »
Hi guys . Problem as in post # 7862 page 315 . Python gives an error and doesn't want to do a resolution of 320x240 . please help me too.  :'(
 


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