Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
254 (26.9%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
435 (46.1%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
46 (4.9%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
47 (5%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
162 (17.2%)

Total Members Voted: 778

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 2938565 times)

KD0CAC John, rockwell and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2300 on: December 13, 2013, 09:40:05 pm »
@zucca,

Regarding your previous post on my tests using a PM695 as a comparison of accuracy......

The PM695 was within spec during the +7 Degrees C test and the -8 Degrees C test. Readings were +7.3 Degrees C and -8.3 Degrees C. The Camera is rated at +- 2% between -40 and +500 Degrees C. No +-2 Degrees  shown as found in the E4 spec.

The E4 was accurate during the + 7 Degrees C test with a reading of +7  :) BUT when used to read the -8 Degrees C test piece the E4 read -11.6 degrees C. That is an error of over 30% on a camera that claims +-2% or +-2 Degrees C down to -20 Degrees C.

This phenomena appears to be confirmed by others experience with the camera. Personally I have no problem with this as I do not intend using it as an accurate thermal camera at low temperatures  ;) As has been stated, this is a budget camera that may not even be calibrated at sub zero temperatures. My PM695 can accurately read very low temperatures down to -40 Degrees C because it is an industrial preventative maintenance camera designed to be capable of such ...... but it cost over $50,000 so you might expect better performance in some areas when compared to a $1000 E4  ;D

I will do some more E4 temperature accuracy tests when I find time....Christmas is rushing up on me and much to do.

Manual including specs for the PM695 is here.

http://www.flir.com/uploadedFiles/Legacy_-_NEW/Thermography/ThermaCAMPM695.pdf

The PM695 manual contains a useful emissivity guide for many materials which may be used to set up your E4 emissivity option.

The manual contains no warnings regarding accuracy loss at sub zero C temperatures.

If there is an issue here, it is that FLIR suggest accurate use down to -20 Degrees C. I have yet to be convinced that such is true. Testing at these low temperatures is challenging as 'frost' quickly forms on the test piece. This ruins the accuracy of the test.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 11:05:53 pm by Aurora »
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline Zucca

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2301 on: December 13, 2013, 10:42:29 pm »
Thanks Aurora for cleaning up the air, I overlooked the -11,6 C in the picture.  :palm:

This confirm my theory that below 0C in the data sheet the management sales guys took over the FLIR developers, or the developers missed something huge.

Also it looks like my accuracy calculation is right  :phew:

Now I have to read the manual you suggested.

Thanks for correcting me.

Z
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2302 on: December 13, 2013, 11:07:17 pm »
I guess problem is somewhere in exiftool. It does not work even for sample photo from your post. Same result. When I extract embeded real image, it is correct. But IR image is corrupted.

the php script is only a wrapper for command line tools exiftool and convert
test the two lines direct und correct the script if necessary
see here for palette colors https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg343791/#msg343791
Code: [Select]
exiftool -b -RawThermalImage FLIR0238.jpg | convert - gray:- | convert -depth 16 -endian msb -size 320x240 gray:- -auto-level -resize 800x -depth 8 e4-gray.png
convert e4-gray.png iron.png -clut e4-iron.png

PS: load newest imagemagick version
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 12:48:21 am by tomas123 »
 

Offline Anders Olsson

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2303 on: December 14, 2013, 12:29:47 am »
I had another E4 delivered from proffsbutiken.se today (for a friend living abroad where the E4 is difficult to find):
Model: E4 1.1
Serial number: 639084XX
Software: 1.19.8
Calibration date: November 28

Upgrade worked perfectly this time too!

It seems like the claim the FLIR person at the job fair five weeks ago made, about them working on blocking the hack, is taking some time to implement  :)

I had an opportunity to borrow an i7 at the same time as i had the E4 and my "E8" at home.
Here is a video with all three cameras side by side in case anyone is interested:
It was difficult to capture the colors and details correctly, but it might give people who are not owners of thermal cameras an idea of what they are capable of.
 

Offline KingVidiot

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2304 on: December 14, 2013, 12:37:50 am »
I received the Flir E4 two days ago, and I tried the hack for it, but it does not work. the firmware on it is 1.19.8. and has a  date of Nov-23-2013 as its date of it being installed with the Firmware  So unless Im doing something wrong, then the Hack for the E4 no longer works. 
If  I am doing something wrong then please let me know. >:( :(
You are probably doing something wrong. Errors in creating the CRC are the usual issue

I agree. I was doing something dumb before and failing the hack, and now everything is updated and running great.
 

Offline mkaufer05

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2305 on: December 14, 2013, 01:00:40 am »
I was succesful in finally hacking the E4 into the E8. And yes it was the CRC that i was doing wrong.
 

Offline Taucher

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2306 on: December 14, 2013, 01:05:07 am »

:clap: :clap:
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Largest thread on the EEVblog!
:clap: :clap: :clap:
 :clap: :clap:

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2307 on: December 14, 2013, 01:10:42 am »
This clearly demonstrates the great interest in the E4 thermal camera and its hidden secrets  :)

For info the latest Calibration Certificate that we have seen for an E4 is 3 December.

Anyone have an even more recent certificate ?

Full history of calibration dates, firmware and serial numbers is here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/flir-e4-the-useful-information-thread/msg332428/#msg332428

Update: We have a 4th December certificate now  :)  E4 V1.1 as expected.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 03:30:47 am by Aurora »
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2308 on: December 14, 2013, 01:26:51 am »
@Anders,

Thanks for making that comparison video. Very useful to see the three cameras side by side. I am left with the view that the E4 in standard build still puts in a good performance. The E8 does, of course, perform even better  ;)

FLIR did a nice job on the Ex series EXCEPT for that damned micro USB socket......what were they thinking when they decided to use that awful connector  :-//  I have fed that comment back to Andy at FLIR and I did get thanks for my input. The Exx series gives you two USB connector types plus a separate charging socket.....I know the E4 is budget but the E8 isn't !
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline junktronix

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2309 on: December 14, 2013, 02:35:45 am »
I'm sure this will be lost in the noise, but I wanted to say that I got an E4 delivered from Amazon today which has firmware 1.19.8 and upgraded to 320x200 with 5 minutes effort.  THANK YOU for the information and _excellent_ video(s)
 

Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2310 on: December 14, 2013, 02:41:12 am »
I'm sure this will be lost in the noise, but I wanted to say that I got an E4 delivered from Amazon today which has firmware 1.19.8 and upgraded to 320x200 with 5 minutes effort.  THANK YOU for the information and _excellent_ video(s)
can you give the calibration date, that is of great use to the people in this thread.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done." -George Carlin
 

Offline ixfd64

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2311 on: December 14, 2013, 02:52:15 am »
From what I can tell, FLIR is in no hurry to "fix" the hack.

Offline Hypernova

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2312 on: December 14, 2013, 06:26:35 am »
This clearly demonstrates the great interest in the E4 thermal camera and its hidden secrets  :)

For info the latest Calibration Certificate that we have seen for an E4 is 3 December.

Anyone have an even more recent certificate ?

Full history of calibration dates, firmware and serial numbers is here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/flir-e4-the-useful-information-thread/msg332428/#msg332428

Update: We have a 4th December certificate now  :)  E4 V1.1 as expected.

Forgot to add in my post (Nov 29th Cal) my HW is also 1.1.
 

Offline QuadESL63

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2313 on: December 14, 2013, 08:17:55 am »
For convenience I have attached the emissivity lists taken from the manuals of the E4 and PM695.

J
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2314 on: December 14, 2013, 09:17:43 am »
From what I can tell, FLIR is in no hurry to "fix" the hack.
They could certainly have easily fixed it several weeks ago if they'd really wanted to.
We know that they know about it, so the only conclusion can be they're not especially bothered. I've been keeping an occasional eye on Tequipment's stock, and E4's are still selling well, though they've also shifted a few E8/6/5 (or returned them!)
I'm sure they won't be too unhappy about leaving Fluke in the dust!
   
..of course we shouldn't over-estimate our own importance in all this - only 76K thread views and 180  downloads of the latest hack zip is chickenfeed in the worldwide market. How many  potential buyers even know of the existence of EEVBLOG or Hackaday ?
They've sold maybe 50-100 units to people who otherwise wouldn't have been in the market, again not a huge deal.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 09:19:43 am by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2315 on: December 14, 2013, 11:42:01 am »
you are right, Flir is not afraid

As I wrote ahead, the hack is not "new"
I hacked my old Flir E40 a year ago.
I used another way, without a CRC Generator

I think, that many engineers found this simple way:

The Exx has a open WiFi.
After connecting to the wifi, you find at address 192.168.64.1.

port 23
a open telnet without password (administrator rights!!)

port 21
ftp with the login flir/3vlig
Flir publiced the ftp login password in a flir manual

port 80 Webserver
http://192.168.64.1/service
"These web pages are password protected, and only intended for trained personel."
with the same login/password  flir/3vlig
-> now you have activate the highres mode  320x240 px

it's not really hidden...
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 11:45:31 am by tomas123 »
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2316 on: December 14, 2013, 11:47:43 am »

Same result. I have downloaded imagemagic and exiftool on friday. Corrupted image is coming from the exiftool. Computer is Win7, x64.
I will try from scratch on another computer to see the result. Thank you for you support so far.

please send an flir e4 image and post
Code: [Select]
$ exiftool -ver
9.38
$ convert -version
Version: ImageMagick 6.8.7-2 2013-10-24 Q16 http://www.imagemagick.org

Offline nacke

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2317 on: December 14, 2013, 03:04:57 pm »
Hello, thank you all for the information you have shared here on this topic. I recently received my E4 for this mod, worked ok but some errors were seen. Has anyone seen such a behaviour on the screen like on picture 1? It went away with battery removal. Next strange phenomenon was when I left camera stationary on the desk for few secons, IR picture "burned" on the screen and "shadow" of it refused to go away :scared: Battery removal, again.

What do you think about pics 2 and 3, decent quality? It's a fridge compressor..
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2318 on: December 14, 2013, 03:34:27 pm »
Regarding picture #1. The pattern reminds me quite a bit on what I've seen when I take pictures with the internal shutter closed. Although the temperature range would seem to be a bit off. Then again, if this was taken with the internal shutter accidentally shut then maybe the firmware got confuzzled.  :scared: So maybe the shutter hadn't fully opened? Anyways, that is just a guess purely based on the pattern.
 

Offline nacke

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2319 on: December 14, 2013, 03:43:19 pm »
I'm 99 % sure that the shutter was open, when closed it shows just some flat orange :)
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2320 on: December 14, 2013, 03:43:38 pm »
Same result. I have downloaded imagemagic and exiftool on friday. Corrupted image is coming from the exiftool. Computer is Win7, x64.
I will try from scratch on another computer to see the result. Thank you for you support so far.

If the embedded thermal image is PNG, then exiftool will extract it as is. Which means that exiftool treats is as a binary blob that you get unaltered. So you get the unaltered PNG header followed by the unaltered PNG data, which due to the Flir implementation happens to be 16-bit gray pixels with bytes in the wrong order.

But as tomas123 pointed out, please post the original picture causing the issue so we can test it. :)
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2321 on: December 14, 2013, 03:45:59 pm »
I'm 99 % sure that the shutter was open, when closed it shows just some flat orange :)

So how about the remaining 1%? That is still statistically valid material.  ;D Internal shutter (the one closed during automatic calibration under camera control) != external shutter (the thingy you flick open before taking pictures).
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2322 on: December 14, 2013, 03:47:12 pm »
@nacke,

Please provide the firmware version (1.19.8 ?), first 5 or 6 digits of the serial number, Calibration date and E4 version of your camera (1.0 or 1.1)
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline nacke

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2323 on: December 14, 2013, 03:48:36 pm »
Oh, I mixed those shutters. That's good to know, thanks.

Aurora: You already have them on your list ;)
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2324 on: December 14, 2013, 03:56:17 pm »
Oh, I mixed those shutters. That's good to know, thanks.
Anyways, I am not saying it must be the internal shutter. Just that the pattern (the upper part) looks a lot like what I see with internal shutter closed. The temperature range & that low temperature stripe on the bottom are a bit of a mismatch, but it's just something to keep in mind should this happen again in the future.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 03:59:33 pm by mrflibble »
 


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