Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
255 (27%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
436 (46.1%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
46 (4.9%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
47 (5%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
162 (17.1%)

Total Members Voted: 780

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 2959491 times)

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4400 on: March 16, 2014, 11:07:22 pm »
Perhaps someone has already asked that, but I can not find the answer.
Is it possible to upgrade the camera Flir E40 to 320x240?
If so, whether this is done the same way as the E4?
Yes- method is very similar to the (pre 1.2x) E4
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Offline steve69163

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4401 on: March 17, 2014, 04:10:01 am »
I have reviewed the instruction of how to hack the e4 firmware 1.21, but I do not really understand 100% of how to begin the change. Can anyone put it in a youtube for more visual instruction. Thank you.
 

Offline uski

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4402 on: March 17, 2014, 04:35:49 am »
If you have a Exx without MSX (year 2012) you can activate the MSX menu but you only see a live real image on the LCD.
If you take a picture, then you save a normal MSX jpg on your SD card.

I think, the MSX code is embedded in the windows CE binaries but not in the fpga code.

This is my conclusion too from my attempts to enable MSX on my "old" E30bx.

And I'm very unhappy at FLIR for not pointing out there are different models.
When I bought their website was clearly stating that the Exx series all had MSX.
 

Offline emptech

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4403 on: March 17, 2014, 05:03:13 am »
When FLIR advertises a product line, they highlight the features of the top end model, in the case of
the eXX series, all you will hear about is the e60.  When you try to sell a product, you start at the top
and go down, never at the bottom.  It does not become obvious that the lower models don't have
the top features until you look at a comparison chart.  I think the reason I chose the e40 over the
 e30 is because of the resolution and I think blue tooth/wi-fi.  To spend more for the e50 and e60 just wasn't worth it to me, but we all know now, the cameras, at least the e40 - e60 are really
 the same camera.

Is is determined that the e30 does NOT have any wireless?

There is a product called Eye-Fi, I believe it is an sd memory card but has wi-fi built in.  I wonder
what would happen if it was inserted into an e30 or any of the eX series.  It seems the issue would
be drivers.  Since the memory card is made to transmit data from cameras in general, I have to
wonder if it would work with a FLIR camera.  I sent the company an e-mail a couple days ago asking
if it would work, they have not responded, doesn't surprise me.  Their website doesn't say much.

Jim

"What this country needs is less people telling us what this country needs"
 

Offline echen1024

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4404 on: March 17, 2014, 05:18:45 am »
And you here about the base model price.
I'm not saying we should kill all stupid people. I'm just saying that we should remove all product safety labels and let natural selection do its work.

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Offline Gallymimus

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4405 on: March 17, 2014, 05:33:31 am »
I have reviewed the instruction of how to hack the e4 firmware 1.21, but I do not really understand 100% of how to begin the change. Can anyone put it in a youtube for more visual instruction. Thank you.

Wow talk about spoon feeding!  Why do people hate to read so much.

Since this was your first post.  It would be great if you would read some of the thread, write up a tutorial (or follow the existing ones in the thread) and ask for help filling in the specific parts you don't understand.  THEN YOU can produce a youtube and it would be a huge contribution to justify all of the free work and knowledge you are getting to leverage.  What a bargain!! and you'll learn a ton like we all did reading every page.

So, just to be sure, did you read this post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg403480/#msg403480 which is listed at the beginning of the 1st page of the thread?

The more I think about it the more I think it's a great idea for you to create that youtube video.  It will be awesome.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 05:35:54 am by Gallymimus »
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4406 on: March 17, 2014, 10:33:44 am »
Perhaps someone has already asked that, but I can not find the answer.
Is it possible to upgrade the camera Flir E40 to 320x240?
If so, whether this is done the same way as the E4?

I saw that you hacked succesfull your E4 and have now a E40.

Some user had seriosly trouble with WLAN.
Better use RNDIS and FTP

My suggest:

(1) Download config file here:
so here the E60 files I used for my E30, pw funzt666

(2) use the tutorial for the i3 (see attached pdf from user nersut - compressed < 1000kb )
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg348174/#msg348174

Offline Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4407 on: March 17, 2014, 12:35:08 pm »
On the topic of the earlier 'non MSX' Exx series.... there was a question on the official FLIR support site asking if an earlier Exx may be sent to a FLIR service centre for the MSX function to be added. FLIR responded saying that it was not possible to retofit MSX to the earlier model Exx units.
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline muvideo

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4408 on: March 17, 2014, 04:43:24 pm »
@muvideo,

Please see my post here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg394322/#msg394322

It should be possible to make a simple telescope just like adding a telescope auxilliary lens to a normal optical camera. BUT the problem is in finding the correct lens elements with the required focal lengths. Do some Googling on "simple telescope" and you will discover what I mean. You will need a nice large (say 50mm diameter) biconvex or plano convex front lens with a long focal length of approx 200mm. This lens will then feed the image to a second smaller biconvex or plano convex lens with a shorter focal length (say 50mm).

This should produce a useable telescope lens but in truth it will likely be pretty poor in terms of performance unless you don't mind a very long lens ! The Inframetrics lens contains at least 4 lens elements and none look to be the type that you can buy off of the shelf easily or cheaply. Bear in mind that teh Inframetrics telescope used Germanium optics and cost several thousand Dollars. If there were a nice cheap way to achievw the same performance, I think we would have seen alternatives available over the years.



Hello,
nice lens you scored, did you try it with E4?
I'd like to see results.

I finally found a little time to make a fast research on the topic.
Grossly simplifying the topic :
for a simple compound lens system of 2 lenses, total focal length f is

1/f=1/f1+1/f2-d/(f1*f2)

where f1 is first lens focal length, f2 is second and d is
distance between elements.
Required focal length for imaging an object on a sensor:

f=(Dtot*Simg)/(Sobj+Simg)

where Dtot is object distance, Sobj is object size and Simg
is object's size projected on the sensor.

Assumptions:
Simg=5mm
Sobj=50mm
Dtot=6000mm
f1=6mm E4 lens
f2=50mm auxiliary lens
gives
f=545mm
d=55mm

So a 50mm lens mounted 55mm from E4 front lens shoud
give 545 equivalent FL, is it possible?

For an auxiliary lens of 25mm FL (the minimum for cheap
ebay ones) d is about 30mm.

Unless I screwed up totally the numbers...
does all this makes sense at all?
It should be easy enough to try.

By the way: ebay's ZnSe lenses are plano-convex or biconvex?
Fabio Eboli.
 

Offline emptech

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4409 on: March 17, 2014, 05:44:04 pm »
Tomas:

I believe it was me, months ago having problems converting my e40 to an e60.
I was afraid I had bricked the camera, I didn't.  I was using the wi-fi to transfer the files via ftp.
I didn't see a reason to use RNDIS at the time since wi-fi did the trick, until I messed up some
files and wi-fi stopped.  I was then forced to use RNDIS to restore my backed up files, worked
fine.  I ended up using the files from funtz as a basis for my config file.  I made some changes
from that file and was able to meet my objective.

I know we have all heard this, but my biggest problem is the time was the CRC calc, once I
cleared that up everything went slicker than snot. 

There are probably some features I could still turn on but haven't.  I have not verified the
temperature accuracy, not my priority.

I believe it was you who flamed me for trying to turn a $4K camera into a paperweight.  I
think all of us are taking somewhat of a chance, but are willing to stick our noses out a
little.

The most important thing is that we help eachother and row this boat in the same direction.

Yes, people need to pay their dues, it took me hours to read all the posts.  Would be nice
if somebody was to distill the important posts down to a minimum.

Jim


I saw that you hacked succesfull your E4 and have now a E40.

Some user had seriosly trouble with WLAN.
Better use RNDIS and FTP

My suggest:

(1) Download config file here:
"What this country needs is less people telling us what this country needs"
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4410 on: March 17, 2014, 06:09:11 pm »
@muvideo,

Yes it is a very nice quality lens.....but the story does not end there.....

I bought the Inframetrics 525 TIC X3 telescope lens for $150 and then saw another X3 telescope designed for the slightly later Inframetrics 600 series camera. I did a deal with the seller and managed to get that one for $100. It is pretty much the same Telescope but with a bayonet mount as opposed to the 525's screw thread. I did some research and these X3 telescopes normally cost around $6000 each  :o 

Now the bad news. When the Telescope is placed in front of the E4 it produces an image, BUT it is inverted. This did not make sense to me as they are auxilliary lenses designed to sit in front of the thermal cameras built in lens. There are no 'invert image' requirements to use these telescopes with the cameras so I am left with the likelihood that this is down the the E4 lens not being at the correct focal point. Having looked at the 525 TIC cutaway diagram, I suspect that I have the E4 too close to the telescope rear lens. I need to do some experimentation and maybe use an intermediary ZnSe lens to sort out the focal point etc. Sadly I am battling illness so have not been able to experiment with the lens properly. I also need to make a new 'spring loaded plunger screw' for the focus ring. The 600 series lens is on its way to me from the USA at the moment but I expect the same inverted image issue. The quality of these X3 lenses certainly makes the effort to convert them for use on a PM570, PM695 or E4 worthwhile. $12000 of lenses for $300  :)

Now some warnings for those considering buying Thermal Camera lenses for experimentation.....be careful or you will waste a lot of money.

My PM570 and PM695 cameras are microbolometer LONGWAVE cameras. The earlier PM550 was a SHORTWAVE Stirling Engine Cooled camera. Many older thermal cameras that used Liquid Nitrogen or a Stirling cooler are SHORTWAVE. Why is this an issue ? Well a lens that is designed for use with a Shortwave TIC has a different AR coating suited to use from 1um to 5um. The Shortwave coating behaves like a mirror when viewed by a Longwave camera. A Shortwave lens is totally useless for applications involving the Longwave FLIR E4. And no, the AR coating cannot be removed, Even if possible, Germanium performs very badly without the coating with less than 40% transmission, as opposed to 98% with the correct AR coating.

I was very lucky to find Telescopes that were designed for Longwave use. The detector in the Liquid Nitrogen Cooled Inframetrics 500 and 600 series cameras are unusual in that they are Longwave.

Also please note that many older thermal cameras with removeable lenses used a system where the front lens assembly could be changed, yet the rear part of the lens assembly was fixed in the cameras chassis. This lowered the manufacturing costs of the lenses as less Germanium was used in them. Such a lens, as fitted to the AGEMA 870 and 880, will not work with an E4 as half the lens structure is missing ! (its inside the 8xx camera)

With regard to the ZnSe lenses sold out of China for CO2 laser use. I have found that the lenses with a FL greater than 50mm are Bi-Convex. FL 50mm or less are Plano Convex. I have also found some 15mm Plano Concave lenses on e*ay at good prices. It is not unusual to see a ZnSe lens being used in a sophisticated thermal lens system that contains both Germanium and ZnSe optics.  They are very versatile with a decent transmission spec.

With regard to the design of a telescope, I am no expert on such so the information provided by the internet is your best guide.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 07:14:25 pm by Aurora »
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline MindBender

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4411 on: March 17, 2014, 09:24:08 pm »
Thanks for all the great work, guys! It's really awesome.

I've been using a FLIR A40 for board bring-up so far, but it has always been a hassle, setting it up, hooking it up to a monitor or network. This E4 a lot more convenient to use and your hack made me decide to get one. It works beautifully!

Not pretending to have discovered hot water: Did you guys found the E4 embedded website already? It's accessible from its IP address with USB in RNDIS mode. The FTP user/pass will get you in. I didn't activate service mode yet, but the service pages seem a wealth of information, including dead pixel info and it even offers a couple of tools.
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4412 on: March 17, 2014, 09:50:32 pm »
Yes, people need to pay their dues, it took me hours to read all the posts.  Would be nice
if somebody was to distill the important posts down to a minimum.

I hacked my E40 long time before this thread starts and I helped for fun.
I'm interested in the reverse engineering of the exif header.
see my long post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg342072/#msg342072
 
Why do you don't write a nice tutorial for the Exx upgrade?
Mike links a good post on the first site.

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4413 on: March 17, 2014, 11:42:46 pm »
Did you guys found the E4 embedded website already? It's accessible from its IP address with USB in RNDIS mode.

Probably some have already seen this


yeah, it's been discussed before. The unlock password is 1235.

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4414 on: March 18, 2014, 12:24:08 am »

Now the bad news. When the Telescope is placed in front of the E4 it produces an image, BUT it is inverted. This did not make sense to me as they are auxilliary lenses designed to sit in front of the thermal cameras built in lens.
Maybe those cameras have a software option to un-invert?
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Offline scientist

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4415 on: March 18, 2014, 02:56:41 am »
Oh, crickey!  This thread is becoming hilarious, and/or a "bag of hurt!" All those "I'm new here" people with < 40 posts on the forum should be required to read the thread before being allowed to post!

Oh, and you have far more posts?  :palm: Looky here mate, if you knew who I was are were was been...

ah dern it, doesn't matter anyway....
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 03:08:02 am by scientist »
 

Offline emptech

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4416 on: March 18, 2014, 04:29:14 am »


Why do you don't write a nice tutorial for the Exx upgrade?
Mike links a good post on the first site.

I'll try to put something together, I'll share it with you before I put it out, can't do it right now,
but it is now on my list -

Jim
"What this country needs is less people telling us what this country needs"
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4417 on: March 18, 2014, 06:35:24 am »

I'll try to put something together, I'll share it with you before I put it out, can't do it right now,
but it is now on my list -

Jim

great, the pdf for the ix hacking is a good starting point
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg407320/#msg407320

add a conf.cfg as template

damned last CR/LF:
Use EzCRC from Taucher as keygen (it's foolproof ;) )
Check visible resolution while deactivating MSX

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg332090/#msg332090

... and copy the conf.cfg from tauchers subfolder with ftp (WLAN or USB/RNDIS) to the Exx

Offline echen1024

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4418 on: March 18, 2014, 04:21:25 pm »
As of now, is there any recommendation as to which specific eBay lens seeme to be of the highest quality and the best for the Flir E4?
I'm not saying we should kill all stupid people. I'm just saying that we should remove all product safety labels and let natural selection do its work.

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Offline RAWebb

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4419 on: March 18, 2014, 06:00:54 pm »
As of now, is there any recommendation as to which specific eBay lens seeme to be of the highest quality and the best for the Flir E4?

I can't attest to highest quality but I followed Aurora's lead in purchasing a couple of eBay item #321078811086 and they work great, modulo my limited experience with IR in general. There are drop-downs to select the material, diameter, and focal length. I went with 20mm dia and 50, 100 focal lengths.

ZnSe is transparent at optical wavelengths, which is probably why the eBay picture looks like it has a mottled surface; you're seeing through to the foam behind it. The lenses arrived in individual paper packets, so no worries about them grinding against the foam during transit.
 

Offline nvana

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4420 on: March 18, 2014, 08:25:04 pm »
First of all: great work modders / tweakers.  I am amazed about how such a prosumer product comes to live within the modding / tweaking community  8)

Quick question: Is a FLIR E4, with firmware 1.21.0 and hardware revision 1.1L still moddable to 320x240 ?

I find alot of postings about the 1.21.0 being moddable with the new CRC3 calculator, but nothing about the 1.21.0 / 1.1L combo.

Arno
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4421 on: March 18, 2014, 08:37:01 pm »
@nvana,

Hardware 1.1L only came into existance with Firmware 1.21.0 so the answer is YES, FW 1.21.0 or 1.22.0 and HW 1.1L can be modded to 320x240 + menu additions, Zoom function etc  :)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 08:38:44 pm by Aurora »
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline Gallymimus

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4422 on: March 19, 2014, 02:21:47 am »
As of now, is there any recommendation as to which specific eBay lens seeme to be of the highest quality and the best for the Flir E4?

After some research we ordered one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230838327998?var=530072348308&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

ZnSe 50.8mm focal distance
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4423 on: March 19, 2014, 03:40:45 am »
As of now, is there any recommendation as to which specific eBay lens seeme to be of the highest quality and the best for the Flir E4?

I can't attest to highest quality but I followed Aurora's lead in purchasing a couple of eBay item #321078811086 and they work great, modulo my limited experience with IR in general. There are drop-downs to select the material, diameter, and focal length. I went with 20mm dia and 50, 100 focal lengths.

ZnSe is transparent at optical wavelengths, which is probably why the eBay picture looks like it has a mottled surface; you're seeing through to the foam behind it. The lenses arrived in individual paper packets, so no worries about them grinding against the foam during transit.

Which focal length do you find more useful?
 

Offline echen1024

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #4424 on: March 19, 2014, 04:07:27 am »
As of now, is there any recommendation as to which specific eBay lens seeme to be of the highest quality and the best for the Flir E4?

I can't attest to highest quality but I followed Aurora's lead in purchasing a couple of eBay item #321078811086 and they work great, modulo my limited experience with IR in general. There are drop-downs to select the material, diameter, and focal length. I went with 20mm dia and 50, 100 focal lengths.

ZnSe is transparent at optical wavelengths, which is probably why the eBay picture looks like it has a mottled surface; you're seeing through to the foam behind it. The lenses arrived in individual paper packets, so no worries about them grinding against the foam during transit.

Which focal length do you find more useful?
Probably 50 for PCB work.
I'm not saying we should kill all stupid people. I'm just saying that we should remove all product safety labels and let natural selection do its work.

https://www.youtube.com/user/echen1024
 


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