Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown (Read 3798133 times)

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #4475 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:05:18 pm »

I'm not convinced there is a TEC in the Ex - I think more likely just a heater - would be easy enough to check by looking at power draw at different ambient temps.
It would be not too unreasonable for a device like this to not be specced to perform optimally above an ambient of 30 deg.C
I can't immediately find an operating temp spec

A thought on the sensitivity thing - does the E8 have the high-contrast pallette as standard? Could it be as simple as that?

DaveWB · « **Reply #4476 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:42:58 pm »

Quote from: DaveWB on February 28, 2014, 11:50:06 pm

Anyone more of a visual learner I uploaded a tutorial:
1.19.8 Resolution hack:

1.19.8 Menu hack:

Uploaded a video for the 1.21 and 1.22 Hack

tomas123 · « **Reply #4477 on:** March 20, 2014, 11:18:58 pm »

great work

suggest: collect the links for your four E4 video tutorials in one post and let Mike set a link to your post on the top of this thread

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #4478 on:** March 20, 2014, 11:36:20 pm »

Quote from: tomas123 on March 20, 2014, 11:18:58 pm

great work

suggest: collect the links for your four E4 video tutorials in one post and let Mike set a link to your post on the top of this thread

I've linked to the post above from the thread start - DaveWB please edit that post if there are any updates.

Fraser · « **Reply #4479 on:** March 21, 2014, 12:47:27 am »

Mike,

Optemp range is -15C to +50C

It would be a first for a TIC to use a heater for the temperature stability of a microbolometer and FLIR tend to be traditionalists and have fitted TEC's to their microbolometers since day 1. It is a trusted and reliable way of taming the microbolometers bad habits of being sensitive to its environs.

I recall certain Fire Fighting TIC manufacturers that used BST FPA's poking fun at a competitors product because it contained a new fangled microbolometer. At the time the microbolometer was considered a very poor choice in the application because of its inability to cope with changes in temperature within the camera. It is fair to say that a microbolometer is inferior in this respect to a BST FPA as it has a very non liner response to die temperature change and one that is not predictable across all pixels. In truth the microbolometer cameras did cope OK with use in Fire Fighting situations as the FPA was directly coupled to a TEC driven by a closed loop controller to keep the module chassis at +30C. The two options available today are TEC temperature stabilisation or no temperature stabilisation at all. In the latter case a different microbolometer technology is used that has a very predictable behaviour at differing die temperatures. As the Ex range is 'budgret' I would not expect a non-TEC microbolometer to be used.

IMHO a 'heater only' solution would make a pretty poor job of taming the microbolometer as it would rely upon passive cooling in an overshoot situation. Unlike a OCXO ther is no insulation around the module to help slow Delta T effects. The camera would also be inoperable above an ambient of +30C as all temperature stabilisation would cease.

slpettus · « **Reply #4480 on:** March 21, 2014, 01:50:16 am »

Hey Guys,
Im playing around with my camera and the res worked great. I am attempting to do the menu hack but when I enter RNDIS my flir drivers in the corner pops up with trying to connect then about a minute later comes back with could not configure device. Im not sure what to troubleshoot on this. Ive uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers and I've used a second laptop and I've used my other camera and all of which have the problem.

Taucher · « **Reply #4481 on:** March 21, 2014, 01:56:50 am »

Quote from: slpettus on March 21, 2014, 01:50:16 am

Hey Guys,
Im playing around with my camera and the res worked great. I am attempting to do the menu hack but when I enter RNDIS my flir drivers in the corner pops up with trying to connect then about a minute later comes back with could not configure device. Im not sure what to troubleshoot on this. Ive uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers and I've used a second laptop and I've used my other camera and all of which have the problem.

Don't try the "triple" option - all 3 modes together won't work.

heavybarrel · « **Reply #4482 on:** March 21, 2014, 01:57:26 am »

Make sure you select RNDIS only and not the other rndis (with) other mode. I did the same a while back with the same problem. put the camera in rndis only and it came right up. Not to say that isn't how you tried it but i had the same issue.

slpettus · « **Reply #4483 on:** March 21, 2014, 02:10:46 am »

I have only used the RNDIS only mode. I've plugged and unplugged and tried my other camera and laptop. I have the same problem on both camera's and both laptops.

Taucher · « **Reply #4484 on:** March 21, 2014, 02:18:17 am »

Quote from: slpettus on March 21, 2014, 02:10:46 am

I have only used the RNDIS only mode. I've plugged and unplugged and tried my other camera and laptop. I have the same problem on both camera's and both laptops.

cold boot your FLIR cam, use the drivers supplied with the "player" and check if you have additional software running (security stuff) or didn't grant permissions as adminsitrator during driver installation .... also check if your windows services list the Flir service (FLIR Systems Camera Monitor = C:\Program Files\FLIR Systems\FLIR Device Drivers\FLIR T3Srv\sysx64\T3Srv.exe)

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #4485 on:** March 21, 2014, 09:08:59 am »

Quote from: Aurora on March 21, 2014, 12:47:27 am

IMHO a 'heater only' solution would make a pretty poor job of taming the microbolometer as it would rely upon passive cooling in an overshoot situation.
Unlike a OCXO there is no insulation around the module to help slow Delta T effects

Why would it overshoot? It's in a fairly stable envrionment, in a metal frame moderately insulated from the outer case, so isn't going to see any sudden temperature load change.

Quote

The camera would also be inoperable above an ambient of +30C as all temperature stabilisation would cease.

Would it be inoperable, or just less accurate, or need more frequent shutter calibrations? It produces perfectly useable images from cold before it's heated up.
I don't know much about the physics of TECs, but after the microbolometer, ADC, vacuum chamber and window, there doesn't seem to be a lot of space in there for a TEC as well.
However as that sensor is also used for automotive applications, these would be specced over a wider temp range, though in that application you don't really care about absolute temp accuracy.

Fraser · « **Reply #4486 on:** March 21, 2014, 10:01:40 am »

Mike,

I have asked my friends at FLIR for comment

We will see if they are able to confirm temperature stabilisation and microbolometer type (VOX or aSi)

A response usually takes a couple of days.

Aurora

Fraser · « **Reply #4487 on:** March 21, 2014, 10:30:40 am »

Having just re-read the Autoliv research document it is apparent that they were experimenting with an ALTERNATIVE to VOX and a-Si microbolometers. They were using a MEMS manufacturing technology to simplfy production and lower cost. It is conceivable that the Ex series contains this type of 'budget' microbolometer. No detail is given of the temperature stabilisation requirements beyond commenting that it may not need to be stabilised.

Aurora

jshishilla · « **Reply #4488 on:** March 21, 2014, 11:16:25 am »

I have an E4 1.0 and am looking to sell it, it have 1.18.7 on it. Where would be a good place to sell it?

Gallymimus · « **Reply #4489 on:** March 21, 2014, 11:40:07 am »

Quote from: jshishilla on March 21, 2014, 11:16:25 am

I have an E4 1.0 and am looking to sell it, it have 1.18.7 on it. Where would be a good place to sell it?

This is obvious, but Ebay is probably your best bet.

Craigslist, or used test equipment companies are also options but I tend to see best sale prices on Ebay.

steve69163 · « **Reply #4490 on:** March 21, 2014, 05:22:18 pm »

Can anyone tell me where I can download ADDMenu-BETA 3, and RNDIS driver? Is the RNDIS driver simply to change the E4 setting to RNDIS, or do I need to look into the Flir web to download its RNDIS driver also? Please advise.

Gallymimus · « **Reply #4491 on:** March 21, 2014, 05:29:13 pm »

Quote from: steve69163 on March 21, 2014, 05:22:18 pm

Can anyone tell me where I can download ADDMenu-BETA 3, and RNDIS driver? Is the RNDIS driver simply to change the E4 setting to RNDIS, or do I need to look into the Flir web to download its RNDIS driver also? Please advise.

the beta 3 menu is linked from the first page of the forum!!!

The RNDIS driver is from FLIR's website.

steve69163 · « **Reply #4492 on:** March 21, 2014, 05:38:49 pm »

Thank you.
Also, on DaveWB's youtube 1.21 hack instruction, which program was he using? microsoft words? I am sorry, I am bad with this.
Thanks again.

DaveWB · « **Reply #4493 on:** March 21, 2014, 06:03:26 pm »

Quote from: steve69163 on March 21, 2014, 05:38:49 pm

Thank you.
Also, on DaveWB's youtube 1.21 hack instruction, which program was he using? microsoft words? I am sorry, I am bad with this.
Thanks again.

That is just notepad

DaveWB · « **Reply #4494 on:** March 21, 2014, 06:04:26 pm »

Quote from: steve69163 on March 21, 2014, 05:22:18 pm

Can anyone tell me where I can download ADDMenu-BETA 3, and RNDIS driver? Is the RNDIS driver simply to change the E4 setting to RNDIS, or do I need to look into the Flir web to download its RNDIS driver also? Please advise.

If you click on the video and go to the youtube site, all the links are in the description.

steve69163 · « **Reply #4495 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:26:31 pm »

Thanks,
I now encounter that I try to the command prompt, I followed the instruction, but it said "can not find the path specified" . Did I do something wrong? I typed in the same pathway where I saved the files.

steve69163 · « **Reply #4496 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:41:01 pm »

I got it. Thank you very much Dave. One last question, if I want to resort it back to original factory setting, do I just push restore on the e4 menu?

Gallymimus · « **Reply #4497 on:** March 21, 2014, 09:05:45 pm »

Quote from: steve69163 on March 21, 2014, 08:41:01 pm

I got it. Thank you very much Dave. One last question, if I want to resort it back to original factory setting, do I just push restore on the e4 menu?

If you read the instructions on the forum linked from page one it explains that you should make a backup of your files on the FLIR before making changes. I am pretty sure that you can't put it back without removing the files manually or overwriting them with the originals.

Rainer · « **Reply #4498 on:** March 22, 2014, 02:27:03 am »

While i´m reading thru my config-file, i see some more measurement-options set to "false". so my question is: has anybody the configfile of an E60bx (the one for building applications)?

Did the special options of the Ebxx meet the isotherm-options set to false in the E8-config?

tomas123 · « **Reply #4499 on:** March 22, 2014, 09:22:33 am »

user uski own an e30bx
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg397343/#msg397343

Do you compared your settings with my config file?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg371680/#msg371680


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Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown (Read 3798133 times)

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