Author Topic: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread  (Read 362106 times)

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Offline KD0CAC John

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1100 on: August 31, 2021, 03:25:37 pm »
Your correct , more than I want to bother at this time , future is unknown ;)
A lot of interesting options .
Thanks again
 

Offline XOIIO

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1101 on: September 20, 2021, 04:42:19 am »
Ok so I've wanted one of these on and off for years, I've gotten my foot in the door for metal casting, and it's making me want one again.

Only read a couple pages, but it sounds like now flir caught on to us modding them, so the e4 can't go above 250c now even with a modified firmware? Does the resolution increase still work? I'm not sure what the current state is like.

Honestly 550c is kind of low for what I'm doing, but still, I'd love one. Sounds like I should have ponied up for one years ago though :(

If I was looking for a used e4 to mod, what hardware revision/serial range/firmware would work to get the extended temp range and whatnot?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 04:44:49 am by XOIIO »
 

Offline KD0CAC John

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1102 on: September 20, 2021, 01:54:07 pm »
I was in a similar situation , read here for some yrs. now and wanted one of these .
Came across a local ad and came back to these threads to check what to look for .
My unit was , dang forgot the hole software number , but was close to 3.?? ending in 13 , someone suggested a member called Bud , just above .
Problem for me is , that this has become such a large subject spreading across multiple threads , and my memory sucks at older age
;(
Bud has downloads one of these threads , somewhere around number 470 or close , if the old memory works a little ?
So someone may showup with more info .
So the bottom line is , the hack may not work someday , but sounds like people are stilling working on this and close to new should work , but if you do not have one yet - hopefully what you find will work .
 

Offline Bud

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1103 on: September 20, 2021, 06:00:31 pm »
I do not think E4 had ever had extended temperature limit, I believe it was E6.
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Offline Bud

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1104 on: September 20, 2021, 06:04:39 pm »
The list of compatible firmware revisions was given in reply #183

Quote
'=====================
Update March 7, 2019: So far the following FW versions confirmed working: 3.9.0, 3.11.0, 3.12.0, 3.13.0, 3.16.0. They may use different packages, you need to scan this thread for information and attachments for a particular fw version.
'=====================
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Offline XOIIO

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1105 on: September 20, 2021, 10:25:17 pm »
I do not think E4 had ever had extended temperature limit, I believe it was E6.

Ahh, ok, so maybe the e4 has a cheaper sensor but it's the e6 that is more limited by software then, I'll have to figure that out.

Wish the software mod increased the temperature range, if I wanted one that did 1k Celsius or higher it's 20 grand, uhg. Wish I was rich enough to buy one, same situation as a high end 3d scanner. Would be so useful.

Offline Bud

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1106 on: September 20, 2021, 11:27:09 pm »
The mod only unlocked the capabilities that were intentionally crippled. If there was no specific capability, there is nothing to unlock. Also, even if the sensor allowed, there is no calibration data exist for the extended temperature range.
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Offline bdeianov

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1107 on: September 21, 2021, 03:31:47 am »
I do not think E4 had ever had extended temperature limit, I believe it was E6.

Ahh, ok, so maybe the e4 has a cheaper sensor but it's the e6 that is more limited by software then, I'll have to figure that out.


The "xt" models have the higher range. Those go from E5xt to E8xt. The single-range E5 to E8 have now been discontinued (you can find them used, but you are better off getting an E4 as the hardware is the same). The E4 only has a single-range version, but comes in WiFi (current) and non-WiFi (discontinued) models.

The "xt" models can be "liberated", including the higher range. My experience with an E5xt is in reply #1011.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 03:42:13 am by bdeianov »
 

Offline XOIIO

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1108 on: September 21, 2021, 04:27:02 am »
Oh, well, then that takes this thoroughly out of budget again. :(

Offline Psi

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1109 on: September 22, 2021, 04:51:51 am »
This maybe impossible, but just a thought if you needed higher temp range.
Is there maybe a filter you can put in front to block 50% of the IR reaching the sensor so everything reads a temp 50% lower?  Or does it not work that way?

You'd have to calibrate it yourself with a lookup table to convert display temp to real temp, (Unless maybe you could hack that data into the units own cal table).   but it might work, assuming a filter like that is possible
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 04:55:05 am by Psi »
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Offline Bill W

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1110 on: September 22, 2021, 10:45:44 am »
Thermal cameras are linear in energy, not simply temperature. 

However a very crude external iris would do the job, just blank off the outer 75% of the lens area to reduce energy by 75%.  So a 20mm diameter lens would become a 10mm central aperture.

Do note that the temperature of the blanking is then part of the equation of apparent image temperature

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1111 on: September 22, 2021, 12:16:51 pm »
If I needed a thermal camera to measure high temperatures, say up to 750C or even 1000C, I would look for a used Ex fire service thermal camera. Such cameras often came with multiple temperature ranges that were automatically selected as the target temperature increased. In a fire fighting scenario it is no uncommon to find very high temperature targets so these came rare ‘made fir the job’. You would want a camera that directly reads temperature from the sensor array, rather than one that uses a separate IR thermometer module. That means you are looking for a Microbolometer based camera rather than a BST type.

Things to note:

1. If viewing shiny targets, such as metal, the Emissivity of the target needs to be carefully considered. Shiny steel at room temperature may have a different emissivity when glowing cherry red. Most fire fighting cameras have a fixed emissivity so will not automatically correct for different emissivity especially… you would have to estimate from the provided readings and maybe some real world testing using contact and non contact measurement methods.

2. Fire fighting cameras are calibrated t give a decent indication of target temperature but the designer is unlikely to have expected laboratory use so the temperature measurement accuracy may be a little less than a high end scientific thermal imaging system. Gain the accuracy may be tested in real world scenarios.

3. Surplus fire fighting cameras appear on eBay regularly, especially in the USA. Some are surplus after an equipment refresh and others are retired from service due to performance degradation or faults. It is not uncommon to see dozens of fire fighting cameras sold by the palette load at US government auctions ! These get bought in bulk, tested and resold by surplus dealers. Some work, some are untested and some are faulty. Buy wisely ! I recommend buying a camera that is stated as working and is shown with its display lit and providing a thermal image with reasonable temperature measurement for ambient conditions.

4. A fire fighting thermal camera is a specialist piece of kit and it’s embodiemnt may seem less than ergonomic for hobby use but it is built fir tough conditions and ruggedness so forgive the ‘clunky’ appearance and focus on what it can offer in practical terms.

5. Do not over pay ! I am ever surprised at how inexpensive surplus fire fighting cameras are on eBay. I have seen some real bargains but sadly shipping and VAT to the UK ruins the deal fir me :( I have seen working MSA 5000 series cameras for less than $200 and bought one a few years ago for only $100 and it works fine. As a case in point, the MSA 5000 series camera that I bought from the USA for $100 contained an excellent Indigo/FLIR  Omega/M10 160 x 120 pixel VOx camera core that is easily deployed on its own and may be configured using FLIR configuration software. The Omega cores lens may be manually focussed and do not let the 160 x 120 pixel resolution put you off…… do you want ultra sharp pretty pictures or temperature measurement ? Sadly I do not think the Omega core can measure very high temperatures without a suitable filter/diaphragm but this gives you an idea of why I think Ex fire fighting thermal cameras can be absolute bargains. They are waterproof so the interior is often like new even if the exterior is tatty.

6. Know that if you buy surplus kit it comes without a warrantee and can fail at any time. You may have to put some effort into restoration, such as a replacement screen protector and new cells in the battery and possibly  make your own charging dock. All relatively simple and when these inexpensive cameras are involved, well worth the effort.

7. Fire fighting thermal cameras range in price and many that are now surplus cost their original owners $10K to $20K so you are getting professional kit for a bargain price  :-+

8. A fire fighting camera from the late 1990’s and 2000’s will not produce the pretty colourised images or offer the functionality of an Ex series camera…..but it is more affordable, offers greater temperature measurement range and may be considered an excellent entry into thermal imaging fir many users who do not wish to spend a lot of money on a thermal camera.

Fraser
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 12:19:45 pm by Fraser »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1112 on: September 22, 2021, 12:28:09 pm »
As a side note, I placed a standard photographic Tiffen Haze glass filter in front of my Exx series camera and it worked well as a high temperature filter/attenuators but some real world testing would be needed to calibrate that combination if any sort of accurate measurement was needed and not just imagery. IRISYS chose this approach th their high temperature camera. I own one. It has two calibrated ranges, one standard and one with the ‘filter’ attached. The filter is a plastic membrane mounted in a screw on adapter and this increases temperature measurement to +500C. As others have stated, another option is an IRIS in front of the lens. There are many very nice quality, affordable IRIS assemblies on eBay for microscope and photographic use. I bought some from China for just a few Dollars. They come in different sizes to meet differing applications. Personally I prefer the multi range thermal camera however.

Fraser
 

Offline Bud

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1113 on: September 22, 2021, 03:33:56 pm »
With the filter approach the liberated E4 can be used, since it has the External Window Compensation mode. See this post:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-wifi-resolution-and-menu-hack-thread/msg1383838/#msg1383838
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1114 on: September 22, 2021, 04:05:48 pm »
The official FLIR “range doubler” attachment for the Exx series and others is detailed here….

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-2000celcius-temperature-range-doubling-adapter-exx-txxx-t197993t199235/

Fraser
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1115 on: September 22, 2021, 04:09:12 pm »
The DIY range extender that I played with…. Just a single coated photographic grade glass Haze filter. Apparently multi-coated types do not work as well.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/range-extender-for-thermal-cameras-cheap-option-from-fraser/

Fraser
 

Offline garymeter48

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1116 on: September 29, 2021, 02:48:20 pm »
I'm going to be receiving a new E5-XT camera shortly. I purchased a T1020 for my company, and I will be receiving the E5-XT as part of the Flir Rewards program, for my personal use of course ;) Looking at the specs between the E5-XT and the E8-XT it looks like the IR resolution bumps up to 320x240 and a slight increase in temperature range. Can I safely upgrade the E5 using the procedures found in this forum, and will the temperature range also be enhanced to match the E8-XT? Also, are there any other features that would be added with the 'liberation' process. Thanks for responses in advance.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1117 on: September 29, 2021, 05:36:50 pm »
E4 is a single range device, there was nothing in the liberation procedure pertaining to extending temperature range.
You need to search this thread for E5-xt, if nothing found then nobody did it.
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Offline davith

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1118 on: October 13, 2021, 12:03:55 am »
I may have bricked my used E4.

I bought the device online recently with no hint the device had been tampered with, no warning screen or anything.
Checked the version, it was 2.3.0, old version, should update to the latest FLIR version. Still nothing to cause suspicion.

Launched up FLIR Tools to upgrade to 3.16.0 for the latest version.

Installed it, rebooted the camera... and the measurement cross-hair was gone. That was concerning... Tried to ping the device over USB at 192.168.02. Nothing.
Tried to read the device from FLIR Tools again. Nothing.
Now I am quite worried.
Tried the recovery procedure. Nothing.

The device was initial recognized as Flir E4, now it's just "FLIR USB Video -". It does power up and it does show thermal data, so it's still functional, I guess I should be happy about that. It takes photos with the original quality I believe but can not be recognized by any PC software that I've tried.

In hindsight I checked the info on the few images that I took before the upgrade. "Thermal Resolution 320x240". Fuck.

Thanks for all the work to everyone here. I wish everyone in the community was as careful and considerate as you all are.
So how screwed am I? Do I have any options to try and fix this?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 02:59:31 pm by davith »
 

Offline natman69

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1119 on: October 13, 2021, 07:05:41 am »
There are two models of E4 (HW is different) and from the firmware version you had before upgrade I think you have the old one.
Firmware 3.16.0 is for new models.

I think you must try to downgrade to 2.3.0 again.

Hope this hint can help...
 

Offline davith

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1120 on: October 13, 2021, 01:50:17 pm »
Hello, thanks for the hints! My HW revision is 1.2L so I believe that it is compatible with 3.16.0. FLIRs software was happy to apply the upgrade :/

I just bought a second hand FLIR E4 1.2L Non-Wifi that had 2.11.0 software installed.
...
I got upgraded to version 3.16.0 and to the point where I could start the liberation! That took about all of an hour, including all the time I was playing with every feature it had in each basic, advanced, and christmas pack modes, as well as backing up each mode individually to allow me to more easily swap between versions if I desire to.

I based that decision to upgrade off of this post.

That said, I can't even get flir's software to properly recognize the camera to apply a downgrade. It just says "FLIR USB Video -" instead of the 'FLIR E4' ish device that is saw before the 'upgrade'.

I also tried to use the "Set_RNDIS_temporary.fif" through "FLIRInstallNet.exe", but it says the connection times out without doing any processing as far as I can tell.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 02:54:43 pm by davith »
 

Offline davith

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1121 on: October 13, 2021, 02:56:22 pm »
I got FLIR Tools to acknowledge the camera by uninstalling and reinstalling the device drivers, but it fails soon after.
This means I might have the opportunity to downgrade back to 2.3.0, but I can't find the file.

This post has a link to it, but the link seems to be dead?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg839561/#msg839561

Any chance someone else has one to offer?
 

Offline Bud

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1122 on: October 13, 2021, 03:03:59 pm »
I would not try to downgrade, it may make matter worse.
Back in the time Flir device drivers were known to be flaky on Windows othef than XP. I recommend you get an XP virtual machine and install Flir drivers on it, then see if they can properly see and access the camera.
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Offline davith

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1123 on: October 13, 2021, 04:57:11 pm »
That worked! so far...

I did crash my computer a several times trying to launch the VM, no idea why that happened, very reliable BSOD if anyone wants a life hack for that...

Managed to install RNDIS, My camera was on 192.168.1.2, so that took a moment but it showed up on IFCONFIG, thank goodness. I've got all the current files 'backed up' as much good as they will do me.

I guess my only option from here is to attempt to apply the latest software from here in hopes it fixes the issues
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 04:59:22 pm by davith »
 

Offline Bud

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Re: FLIR E4 Wifi Resolution and Menu Hack Thread
« Reply #1124 on: October 13, 2021, 06:21:29 pm »
OK. Now on that XP system run remove RNDIS to put the camera in USB mode and then try  on your regular OS computer if the software can now see it. You can always go back to RNDIS using your XP installation.
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