Author Topic: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser  (Read 5880 times)

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Offline Bill W

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2023, 09:24:22 pm »

I tried the excellent Thermo Viewer software by Joe-C and that does not see the camera either.

I ran the SDK 4.3 example programs and the SDL program showed the thermal image. I cut that image from a screen grab and it contained approximately the correct number of pixels so the core is not locked down to 103x78 pixels from what I can see. I attach that screen capture and the output of the example program declaring 103 pixels x 78 associated with the camera ID.

As it is the top left of the image, I wonder if 'Simpleviewer' is thinking it is attached to the Seek '$99' camera, which is 103x78 ?

Thinking about getting one for more lens fun !
Interesting compare to the FLIR One and looks less aggro mounting it.  I spend longer fixing broken USB connectors than using the FLIROne....

Bill


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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2023, 09:48:59 pm »
Bill,

Thank you. I did not know the resolution of the $99 core as I kind of lost interest in SEEK Thermal products a while ago. I still cannot get the latest version of Simple Viewer to run with the camera but I am using Win7 so will try Win10 to see if that is the issue. Hopefully I can convince SEEK camera compatible programs to recognise the SEEK Scan imaging core. Sadly I have very little spare time in the coming week due to family commitments. For what I paid for the SEEK Scan, I am pleased with my purchase, but how I wish SEEK Thermal had used the QVGA core in this unit ! This unit also reminds me of how much better the imagery is that comes out of the Infiray Tiny1C and S0 cores.

Fraser
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Offline IwuzBornanerd

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2023, 10:59:34 pm »
...

I tried the excellent Thermo Viewer software by Joe-C and that does not see the camera either.

...
If I am honest, I have no great love of these Seek Thermal camera cores, so I will limit how much time I spend trying to work out what is going on as I have other, more pressing, tasks to undertake.
Thanks for all the info. Fraser.

What is the USB product ID for that core?  If it is different than the "Compact" units that may be why Joe-C's software does not recognize it.  Does the Seek app work with it? 

If the lens can be removed without damaging something else, I could find it useful for "mod" work, but I guess I'm not hot enough to have one to feel like making an E-bay account just to get one. 

Others in the US may be interested to know that the seller is running out of them--I put a $113 one in the cart a bit ago to see if I could buy without an account & it said "last one".
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2023, 03:48:54 pm »
Seek Scan thermal core details:

Model : J3-604-20x

Resolution : 206 H x 156 V 12um pixels

Lens : 4mm / f1.2

FOV: 35 Degrees H / 26 Degrees V

Sensitivity : <40mK (post processing)

Frame Rate : <9fps

Accuracy : +/- 0.3C between 36C and 40C, when used with Temperature Reference

USB identity to host PC : VID: 289D   PID: 0010*

Firmware version : 3.3.1.24

Processor Board Version : 3150

Interface : USB 2.0


*For information, the following USB PID's have been identified by Joe_C on other Seek thermal cameras:

PID 0010 (Compact + XR / Android or iPhone)
PID 0011 (Seek Pro)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2023, 04:14:35 pm by Fraser »
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2023, 05:22:18 pm »
I just connected the camera head, complete with its internal hub and visible light camera, to a Samsung A6 mobile phone. I used a known working Micro USB (M) to USB A (F) OTG adapter cable.

Upon installing the SEEK Thermal App I was rewarded with a thermal image from the camera head. The image was the full 206 x 156 pixels so no cropping. App temperature measurement functionality also worked fine (but the actual measurements need to be checked for accuracy) I took some pictures with my iPad just to show the unit working so they are pretty awful quality !

The camera is identified simply as the “3150” which is the identity of the Processor Board used in this particular core.

The target in these images is the same TV table that I used in previous images.

Fraser
« Last Edit: July 22, 2023, 05:39:22 pm by Fraser »
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2023, 05:37:09 pm »
Hmmm, just looking at those pictures again….. the ones with the delta T temperature mode selected do not look right. The maximum temperature may be correct but +29C on the cabinet as the minimum temperature looks way too high as the room is at +21C.

No time to investigate at the moment. That will have to wait until another day.

Fraser
« Last Edit: July 22, 2023, 05:40:35 pm by Fraser »
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Offline IwuzBornanerd

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2023, 07:42:18 pm »
Seek Scan thermal core details:

...
USB identity to host PC : VID: 289D   PID: 0010*
...

*For information, the following USB PID's have been identified by Joe_C on other Seek thermal cameras:

PID 0010 (Compact + XR / Android or iPhone)
PID 0011 (Seek Pro)

So it's not that then.  I would expect that Joe-C's software would at least recognize that a Seek camera is connected, so perhaps the control commands are different.  The ordinary "Compact" I bought in January of 2017 reports:

Camera Hardware
HW: v7 TH: v2 TLID: -1

Camera Software
1.3.0.0

So there may be differences in there.  Happy to know the app works with it but it would be great to be able to use "third party" software.
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2023, 07:47:20 pm »
I will try again with Joe-C’s software. I just selected the SEEK option in the left hand menu plus “connect” but no camera was found. I could have a driver we issue maybe.

Fraser
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2023, 08:47:55 pm »
Just tested the camera with "Thermo Vision" from Joe_C again. Sadly no dice. The camera is not seen as being connected yet is present in Device manager and working with the SDK.

Temperature accuracy when running on the Samsung A6 was checked and it is accurate. It is confusing that the 3150 core will work with the phone APP, the early Simple Viewer program (although only at 103x78 pixels) but not with the later (SDK3v8) Simple Viewer, Thermo Vision, or SeekOFix. This would need some further investigation but sadly I have little time to 'play' for the next few weeks :(

So whilst the SEEK Scan may still be good value for money at £120, it is not directly compatible with the 3rd party PC programs and I do not know the cause at this time. Compatibility with Thermo Vision would have been great so that is a bit of a downer  :(

Fraser
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Offline gabiz_ro

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2023, 06:11:02 am »
I may be wrong but with "Thermo Vision" from Joe_C I think you need to use other driver (libusb or winusb) installed with zadig
Seek driver for SDK
libusb or winusb via zadig for Thermo Vision
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2023, 09:20:11 am »
gabiz-ro

Yes it is WinUSB and I tried that using Zadig.

The SEEK provided driver is WinUSB version 4 and the camera is titled Seek Camera, or something similar, in the Device manager  under USB devices.

Using Zadig the WinUSB installed is version 6 and the camera is titled differently in device manager. Something like PIR206i.

This difference was noted by user Ben321 some time ago and he found that he needed the Seek provided driver for Seek SDK programs and the Zadig installed driver for 3rd party programs. Neither driver works for Thermo vision in my case. Of note is that SDK 3.8 fails to work with the SEEK Scan camera yet SDK 4.3 does work. This explains why the later Simple Viewer does not see the camera….. it uses SDK 3.8 in its creation and there is no Simple Viewer built using SDK 4.

Fraser
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 09:23:05 am by Fraser »
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2023, 07:56:46 pm »
Back to the SEEK Scan ... I have just found the Patent application for the SEEK Black body temperature reference and it contains lots of detailed images  :-+ I attach the PDF from the USPTO here. I have also included the Patent application for the SEEK Scan system.

Fraser
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 08:22:07 pm by Fraser »
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Offline dalittle

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2023, 04:14:47 am »
Thanks Fraser, another very interesting and entertaining read. Appreciate your sharing with us.
david
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2023, 11:33:43 am »
dalittle,

It is a pleasure to produce posts that others may find interesting  :-+ Sadly I am limited in both spare time and funds so cannot buy as many interesting thermal imaging items as I did when in full time employment. I tried to obtain modern camera samples from companies for testing and review but unless you have a YouTube or Instagram presence with a lot of followers it is a waste of time asking. I hope the few posts I still create on thermal imaging related hardware are of interest though  :)

Fraser
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Offline ArsenioDev

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2023, 01:21:31 pm »
Fraser, personally I am always excited for another deep dive on something whenever you post. The knowledge you share is incredibly helpful and much appreciated
 

Offline gabiz_ro

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2023, 06:53:53 am »
@Fraser
You already do much interesting stuff, and already take pictures so making a video during this will be more useful.I understand this is work in plus but something like bigclive is fine.
Some editing on video or even play-pause recording may be enough.
As for followers I thing you'll have a lot in short time.
 

Offline LaserSteve

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2023, 02:22:49 pm »
I'm working with JoeC trying to get the scan to work with his software.  Not much luck so far, I can get the software to recognize the Scan about 50% of the time, but still no imaging.

Steve
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Offline IwuzBornanerd

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2024, 08:06:56 pm »
The price of these things has come down to where I found it irresistible.   What ultimately  made it irresistible, though, was that I could order it from the seller's web site without making yet another account.  :)

https://industryrecycles.com/shop/seek-scan-thermal-body-imager-206-x-156-resolution-yw-aaa-2/

Mine arrived Friday & gave me images "out of the box" on my own software...sort of--everything was either -40 or  few hundred degrees F.  It took me several hours to ferret out the problems & get reasonable output, but the result is sweet.  :-+

The first problem is that the frames of data that the camera spits out upon initialization are apparently only spit out on first init. after power up.  If I shut down my program & then re-start without unplugging the camera & re-plugging it, my program just sits there timing out & giving errors.

The major problem for me is that the "frame 9", which I use as a thermistor lookup table, has the same range of values as the Pro dongles rather than what the non-pros have (the ones I have anyway).  The new non-pros might now have that same data set too, for all I know.  It took me a few hours to figure out how to handle this & still cover the old dongles, but now I have it "close enough" to get reasonable images out of the 'scan :~)  I need to do some massaging to get the temperatures closer to correct, but it's working quite well now.  :clap:

Other observations:

The data from the camera is 206 x 156 pixels but the bottom row is all 0's.

Whenever there is a shutter event the camera outputs frames with status byte 1, 6, & 20.  Values in frames 1 & 6 are similar but values in frame 20 are more than twice as big.

Camera Type is reported as 3150 rather than "Compact", also:
Software version: 2.3.0.0
Image Processing Software: 2.11.3.2
Camera Hardware: HW: v0  TH: v5  TLID: -1
Camera Software: 3.8.1.24

I can only guess what caused the problems Fraser had with 3rd party software.  One guess is that perhaps the other software is expecting certain return messages from the setup commands & not getting what is expected.  I don't process any of those return messages so it won't matter to my software.

I don't have the SDK & don't use "zadig" or "winUSB", so I can't say if there are any issues with those.  I use libUSB under Debian Linux & the only problems I had are the ones I stated above.

So the big news is that there are no special codes needed to get the Seek Scan to yield the usual temperature range, OR to get it to work at all--the same USB commands work for the (non-pro) Compacts & the SeekScan.  There might be something that needs to be sent to make it work without unplugging the camera every time, but that is not catastrophic for my purposes.  Further good news is that this problem does not appear to occur with the Seek phone app.  I even force-stopped the app & opened it again & it worked without unplugging the camera.

HOWEVER, there is one disappointing thing with the phone app in that the TIFFs saved from the Scan contain scaled images, only 103x78 pixels, including the temperature data set.  The images also are screwed up as shown.

Image in TIFF:
2012420-0

Corrected image:
2012426-1

Image on phone:
2012432-2

I intend to dig into the black body at some point, but for now I feel like I should just be happy with how well this works & do other stuff for a while.  :)

Image from my software
2012438-3

I will attach a set of startup & shutter frames from the 'scan in case they are of help to anyone troubleshooting 3rd party software.
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: SEEK SCAN Covid-19 countermeasure system - Teardown by Fraser
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2024, 10:41:06 pm »
IwuzBornanerd

Excellent ! Thank you for your work on this. Sadly my SCAN system has sat in its box since I tested it. I shall have to dig it out again and try it with your software :) Thank you for sharing your experiences with the unit. As you say, they are very inexpensive on the surplus market now  :-+ People sometimes need a static camera to monitor a scene or equipment and FLIR offer their AX8 for that roll with only a Lepton 2.5 80x60 pixel image. The SEEK SCAN could serve well in that roll if coupled to more general use software than the original app.

Fraser
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 10:47:06 pm by Fraser »
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