EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Thermal Imaging => Topic started by: Martin72 on April 18, 2023, 08:19:49 pm
-
Hi!
Finally I got a Flir Infracam, the one I know from work, with manual focus - Old but I like it and I was happy to get a used one for small money.
Today I check the cam, first everything looks normal, working normal.
But two things couldn´t be right, maybe they got the same cause:
- As I said, everything works, but when I try to make a picture, saving message appears - And the cam freeze, partly(is still working/refreshing).
Message persists, no reaction when pressing any button until you remove the accu.
- Second: I enter the correct date and time, after removing the accu the cam loose it.
Edit: There are some pics in the internal gallery- when you try to remove them (delete all? Yes), the cam freezes.
Edit 2: When trying to save the pic or delete and then freeze, it sounds like a writing problem, or ?
Any guesses/hints ?
Martin
-
The second problem sounds like real time clock battery. How old is the camera ?
20 years would be life on a clock battery - assuming the camera is normally off.
Now, is the memory problem related to that ?
Way back picture storage could be battery backed flash RAM
Fraser ?
-
Today I wanted to take a look inside, but don´t have such a small torx screwdriver.
But tomorrow I´ll have one.. ;)
Cam is from 2006, like the one we have at work.
And the one at work is saving an image inbetween a few seconds, so I have clearly a fault.
Also it keeps the time setting after removing/reinstalling the accu.
-
I have not worked on that model of camera. Real Time Clock circuits use either the main battery or a secondary power supply source for operation when the camera is switched off. In the models that use the main battery for the RTC, removal of the battery normally causes resetting of the RTC to default data. Models that use a secondary RTC power supply operate from that source when the camera is off. The power source is usually a small rechargeable button cell, a lithium non-rechargeable cell or a Super-Capacitor that may look like a button cell. If a camera is supposed to retain its RTC settings when the main battery is removed, there should be a secondary power source visible on the PCB. Some industrial modules use RTC/Memory modules that have a power cap or permanent battery installed within the RTC Module. I would not expect to see such a module in the Infracam. If a secondary RTC power source is present then there is the risk of it becoming discharged over time and loss of the RTC data results. This in itself is not normally an issue and a replacement power source may be fitted if the original has degraded. Sadly the secondary power sources that are charged by the camera whilst in use can suffer electrolyte leakage over time. This includes Super-Caps. The electrolyte leakage migrates over the PCB’s surface and corrodes any metal it contacts and can set up electrolytic action between points that are carrying power, and lower potential points on the PCB. I have seen IC pins dissolved to rust by such action. Close inspection of such secondary RTC power sources is recommended. Sadly the electrolyte can migrate under BGA IC’s and causes havoc. Many repair techs will not attempt a repair on PCB’s that have suffered such electrolyte leakage as there is the potential for ongoing problems with the PCB.
In the case of the Infracam, sadly I have no instant answers and would only be able to diagnose the issue with the camera on my test bench. It could be that the RTC and Flash memory fault are connected or it could be two separate issues, so coincidence. The Flash memory appears to be in fault from the boot log so that area of the camera needs close inspection. It may be possible to fit a replacement Flash chip but that IC may contain important data and the operating system so life is not always that simple.
Kind Regards
Fraser
-
Hi,
Disassembled the cam, I´m impressed about the superb building quality..
Thing 1: It´s the Infracam, without the suffix "SD", but an sd-cardholder is already on board (but not avaible from outside).
Thing 2: The backup (?) battery is a cr2225 type - And completely down (0V).....
Martin
-
First step…. Replace that lithium battery as it is not the rechargeable type and so is just at the end of its life.
Test the camera again after a couple of cold starts and setting the RTC to sensible data and time values. See whether your picture saving issue is fixed. It could well be if the RTC is used to hold some system configuration data. The camera will recreate that RTC data upon first cold boot so it is not lost. Then on the second cold boot the new data in the RTC is read out at boot.
Fraser
-
The RTC is the 1338 and that contains both the RTC plus a small area of non-volatile (battery backed) RAM. It is quite conceivable that FLIR use that non volatile memory as they have done so on other cameras of theirs that I have worked on. When the battery fails the camera get upset as it writes fresh RTC memory data into the RAM but it is lost at every fresh boot when it is needed. A sort of tragic unending “data write”-“data forgotten” loop that the camera cannot fix because the RTC RAM has the memory retention characteristics of a goldfish !
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/clocks-timing/application-specific-clocks/real-time-clocks/1338-real-time-clock-battery-backed-non-volatile-ram (https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/clocks-timing/application-specific-clocks/real-time-clocks/1338-real-time-clock-battery-backed-non-volatile-ram)
-
Hi,
Thank you for the informations.
I´ve just ordered the battery via amazon, should arrive tomorrow.
I am very curious if all problems will be solved with it.
That would be just super.
Will report back.. :D
-
Hi,
Battery arrived,exchanged it...
Now time and date won´t get lost when turning off/ remove the accu.
But the "main problem" still persists.
Freezing when trying to save a pic or delete a pic in the internal memory..Fu** :(
-
I believe I have a backup of the Infracam firmware if you think it may help to compare or swap out files.
Sadly this could be a hardware fault though :(
Fraser
-
I´m afraid it´s getting worser...
Today I took the usb-cable from our infracam at work to home, connect my cam to my notebook...
Windows 10 recognize it, displaying a usb drive, a little time passes by then abort it to read with a failure message.
In the same time, when plugging in the usb cable to the notebook, a message on the cam appear that now the computer have control.
After the windows failure message I´ve disconnect the cam from the notebook, but the screenmessage remains and the cam is freezed until I remove the accu...
Found the secret menu (press menu, then press and hold the "play" button), but it´s only nice to know, nothing interesting to adjust, only a dump function.
-
Try Microsoft’s chkdsk on the Infracam “USB” drive. It can sometimes fix faults in the memory contents and file structure.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/chkdsk?tabs=event-viewer
Fraser
-
Hi,
No chance...
Although it´s "there" but windows try (at the first time it´s plugged in) to read, read, read and abort it.
Chkdsk "say" couldn´t get access to drive.
-
:(
-
You could try the hex editor HxD, there you can open a drive directly to see if it is working on a low level and even make a backup dump of the data.
-
Thank you but I think nothing will help:
Did the same (Cam via usb to pc) with our infracam at work - works without any tricks or drivers needing.
Summary:
-Replacing the dead battery fixed the date lost thing
-Access to internal memory is possible, but deleting old pics not and makes the cam freeze.
-Saving new pics is not possible, makes the cam freeze.
-USB interface will be recognized but no access to the internal memory possible, cam will freeze.
The last three points must have one thing in common and that will be the failure of the cam.
The seller wasn´t aware of that ( I believe him) and gave me a part of the money back.
Now I have a nice build cam with manual focus that I only could use for "looking" without saving anything.
Fu... :(
My second used bought cam (Trotec) have a defective solonoid, I´ll give up the idea to get a cam with manual focus in a cheap way.
Thanks at all for trying to help! :)
-
There's a bug in earlier version of the camera's firmware. When filling up the internal memory with radiometric images, the software is sometimes unable to store 50 images and the last attempt to store an image gives an error message and a corrupted image file.
When this happens, it becomes impossible to delete any images in the camera.
To fix that you need to open a telnet session to the camera, unmount, delete and recreate the image storage partition.
I don't have the exact details because I did that like 10 years ago but maybe it will help you.