Author Topic: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)  (Read 5424 times)

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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2019, 07:59:54 pm »
Hi Vipitis,

No, afraid not. The FLIR A20 and A40 are in another class above that of the OMEGA/A10. They share much with the Pxx and Sxx series industrial camera designs but are in a static deployment format. Excellent quality industrial cameras but also quite expensive on the used market. I have an A40 and it is a lovely bit of kit :)

Fraser
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2019, 08:21:26 pm »
So what's in the 5000 model?  It's also got an Indigo sticker.  A good bit more than $100, but there are several on eBay.  I've got an HT-18 which is all I need for now. 

But for $100 I'd bite just for the toy.  I'd like to have a thermal imaging microscope for PCB thermal analysis.  I took the HT-18 apart to study how it was constructed to see what could be done to reduce the parallax error at close range.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2019, 08:39:25 pm »
rhb,

Please clarify, which model camera ? The 5000 series comprises 5200, 5200HD2, 5600 and 5800.
The cameras have “Evolution 5000” on their casings and not the specific model number.
They all contain the OMEGA core but the 160 or 320 version, depending upon the camera resolution.

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 09:02:43 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2019, 12:51:30 am »
For example this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSA-Evolution-5000-for-PARTS-AND-REPAIR/292798861878?epid=0&hash=item442c2c1236:g:f8EAAOSwl5Jb2zIi

What are the differences among the versions and how does one identify them?  I rather suspect a lot of others are interested.  Even more so than I.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2019, 01:24:30 am »
BTW In regard to ITAR,  A USA or USMC colonel was sentenced to federal prison for sending  reflex optical sights for an AR-15 to three Japanese officers he met in Iraq or Afghanistan during a deployment.  He bought them in the US at a gun store upon returning home and shipped them to Japan without getting a permit.

Idiotic? Yes.  But that's the way it works. SARCO, a major class 3 licensed parts dealer will not ship magazines for *anything* out of the US.  Regulatory compliance costs too much.  And if you get it wrong, the consequences are *very* severe.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2019, 08:59:37 am »
rhb,

The whole series of Evolution 5000 cameras are detailed here......

http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/content/minesafetyappliances/Evolution%20Thermal%20Imaging%20Camera%20Bulletin%20-%20EN

The camera you referenced in the auction is the Evolution 5600.

The Standard 5200 is all black, the entry level 5600 is back and grey whilst the high resolution 320 x 240 pixel u its are either all black (5200HD2) or black and and green (5800). They all contain an Indigo Omega 160 x 120 Pixel or 320 x 240 pixel core (depending up the required resolution).

The most common ex fire service cameras found on eBay are the 5200 and 5600. The higher resolution 5200HD2 is far less common but does appear now and again, but at high prices.

Just Google “MSA 5000” for more information.

Hope this helps

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 09:08:14 am by Fraser »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2019, 09:15:18 am »
In case you are interested, that 5600 camera you referenced is suffering from a common issue with these units. The ‘armoured’ LCD screen protection plastics are a laminated assembly and they delaminate with age and high temperatures over time. Mine was looking very tired indeed. It would be possible to replace the plate or may be possible to peel off the delaminated thin layer and clean away the adhesive to enable use of the thicker polycarbonate (?) part of the screen protector. The LCD is unaffected by this delamination as it is a separate assembly that sits behind the screen protection.

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 09:40:59 am by Fraser »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2019, 09:52:29 am »
The 160 x 120 pixel 5200 and 320 x 240 pixel 5200HD2 can be hard to differentiate.

http://www.rockymountainphoenix.com/equipment/rescue/evolution-5200-tic.html

Fraser
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2019, 10:11:27 am »
Some recent eBay.com auctions for MSA 5000 cameras at decent prices. Do not overpay on these, especially if untested !

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSA-Evolution-5000-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TIC-System-5200-Series-/192866604938?hash=item2ce7bed78a%3Ag%3AA3YAAOSw4S1clPlN&nma=true&si=gJx6nd1uQQZFvsu9EsCt%252FR2zWvA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Msa-5000-Series-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TIC-Missing-Battery-Door-Evolution-5600-/123699405614?epid=1870295636&hash=item1ccd0f232e%3Ag%3AjwsAAOSwDcJckTdW&nma=true&si=gJx6nd1uQQZFvsu9EsCt%252FR2zWvA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSA-Evolution-5000-Thermal-Imaging-Camera/223372682383?hash=item34020ca48f:g:3jMAAOSwZntcW2mK


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSA-Evolution-5000-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TIC-System-5200-Series-/192786063751?epid=1133731970&hash=item2ce2f1e187%3Ag%3ADuUAAOSwohVcNsmC&nma=true&si=gJx6nd1uQQZFvsu9EsCt%252FR2zWvA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSA-Evolution-5000-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TIC-System-5000-Series-/202579607293?hash=item2f2aaf7efd%3Ag%3ARiwAAOSwwDJcT84m&nma=true&si=gJx6nd1uQQZFvsu9EsCt%252FR2zWvA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Msa-5000-Series-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TIC-With-Battery-amp-Charger-/273670923607?hash=item3fb80ee557%3Ag%3Ayz0AAOSwckVcSdHp&nma=true&si=gJx6nd1uQQZFvsu9EsCt%252FR2zWvA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSA-Evolution-5000-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TIC-System-5000-Series-/202568025935?hash=item2f29fec74f%3Ag%3AxXcAAOSwmMNcP3yS&nma=true&si=gJx6nd1uQQZFvsu9EsCt%252FR2zWvA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSA-Evolution-5000-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TIC-System-5000-Series-/202569639199?hash=item2f2a17651f%3Ag%3AHvwAAOSw8cFcQdSB&nma=true&si=gJx6nd1uQQZFvsu9EsCt%252FR2zWvA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSA-Evolution-5000-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TIC-System-5000-Series-/192793120073?hash=item2ce35d8d49%3Ag%3AGvUAAOSwfBlcP3uu&nma=true&si=gJx6nd1uQQZFvsu9EsCt%252FR2zWvA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MSA-Evolution-5000-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-TIC-System-5000-Series-/202559575525?hash=item2f297dd5e5%3Ag%3AmD0AAOSwqkRcNscP&nma=true&si=gJx6nd1uQQZFvsu9EsCt%252FR2zWvA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


As you can see, these cameras are not rare at good prices ! Remember that I am not interested in the cameras outside condition, I would be looking to harvest the Omega Core, the rest is just scrap. If you want a nice condition MSA 5200 you will have to do some searching to find one that has had light use, preferably not in the fire service, and expect to pay around $700 including battery and charger.

Ex fire service cameras are heavily used and normally pretty heavily marked by the time they are decommissioned. The reason why bunches of these cameras appear on eBay is simple, Fire brigades either upgrade to newer technology or dispose of cameras that have failed and can no longer be supported by the OEM. It is not unusual to see regional auction houses in the USA selling 50 cameras in a lot for very little money. eBay recycling companies buy them and either dump them on eBay in multiple auctions or drip feed them into the market to maintain the market value.

I have seen excellent thermal cameras sold as part of a 50 unit lot at a regional State auction that in real terms cost the buyer less than $30 each !

Now a working Indigo OMEGA for $30 is sweet indeed. But remember, you would have to buy 50 to get that deal and then, presumably, sell the excess on eBay, like other dealers. If you are really lucky you might find the odd 320 x 240 pixel OMEGA amongst the cameras in the lot  ;)  Sadly such auctions are only available to our friends in the USA. There are auctions and surplus dealers for fire equipment in the UK but prices can be higher.  I know a UK technology recycler who was offered a package of 20 ARGUS 4 cameras at only £20 each ! That is an amazing camera that is current issue in many fire brigades ! They may have been the 160 model as opposed to the 320, but still an amazing deal !

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 01:27:30 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2019, 11:03:22 pm »
Many thanks for the detailed explanation.  I'd seen your name mentioned many times, but never read any of your posts as I'm only mildly interested in thermal imaging.   I can see now why the high praise.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2019, 09:15:52 am »
Just go back through my past posts and you will see that I help where able and I am relatively open about what I know of the technology. I learnt about thermal imaging and thermal camera technology through professional use, collecting, maintenance and repair of thermal cameras from all era’s. I received invaluable help and guidance from fellow knowledgeable forum members and even the designers of such technology  :-+ I am very grateful to all who have helped me to better understand this technology, especially Bill W  :)

Fraser

 

Offline rhb

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2019, 09:49:10 pm »
I bought a copy of "Infrared Thermal Imaging" by Vollmer and Mollmann.  I've not yet read enough to know if it is any good.  If you have any other recommendations I'd be grateful.  My general rule is to get 2-3 references on a topic.  There is too much for any one text to cover it all.  The book would get too thick.  768 pages is quite enough.  A lot of times I just don"'t get it until I read the 2nd or 3rd explanation.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2019, 10:03:24 pm »
I made a list of free books and guides a while back.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/free-thermography-and-camera-use-guides-books-the-list-)/msg1220186/#msg1220186

I will look at the reference books I have and see which I can recommend but Infrared Thermal Imaging by Vollmer and Mollman is an excellent reference.

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 10:13:31 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2019, 10:30:23 pm »
FWIW I have a 5000+ volume personal technical library.  I just recycled about 500 lbs of old journals to make more room for books.  I'm very much interested in upper graduate level texts that are thorough and well written and either include or cite references to the detailed mathematical physics.

I bought "Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering" by Henry Ott.  After about 50 pages I gave up trying to read it.  The man could not explain a hammer.  Rather sad as the material covered is excellent, but it is so hard to read that it's only usable as a reference.  It's not usable for a quick survey of the topic.

One paragraph appeared to be completely incorrect.  But after discussing it with a friend via email over the course of a day it became apparent that it was because he used the language of DC charges for an AC circuit.
 

Offline jumpy9734

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2019, 01:55:59 pm »
I'm interested in buying a MSA Evolution 5200 (160x120, 30hz).Seller has the option to ship from US to Romania (EU), is there anything i should worry about regarding the ITAR stuff/legal aspects? I wouldn't want to get in any sort of trouble, and i'm sure you have greater knowledge on these kinds of matter.  :)

Thank you.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 01:59:44 pm by jumpy9734 »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2019, 02:15:59 pm »
ITAR, BIS and Wassenaar are all applicable to the shipper and not the recipient but I do have personal experience of this specific case that may help.

My MSA5600 was being exported from the USA and entered US. Customs as it departed the USA. It did not reappear for overseas shipping for 20 days ! The Customs declaration stated “thermal camera” and I believe it was intercepted by US customs for export compliance reasons. It was likely checked with MSA or other reference sources and then released. US Customs appear to have considered the camera OK for export. The sender was not contacted by US Customs or USPS about the parcel contents. When the parcel arrived in the UK, complete with its honest customs declaration and true price paid, it was intercepted by UK customs and kept by them for 7 days ! They then released it, along with a fee request for the VAT due on the consignment.

When I picked up the box it was covered in US Customs and UK Customs tape. The Post master commented, saying it appeared to have attracted a lot of interest en route and “had quite a complex journey”.

So basically, my MSA 5600 160 x 120 pixel camera got inspected by both US and UK customs and did get released to me in the end. The customs declaration should be accurate and honest, anything else is risky and can lead to confiscation. I recommend sellers detail thermal cameras as “Pyrometer” in order to avoid theft in transit. Thermal cameras are often high value items and there are definitely thieves active in some countries postal systems and they read the Customs Declaration. I had a £600 HF receiver stolen out of the USPS US Customs Bond Warehouse because I was too detailed in my Customs Declaration :( It attracted a thief.

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 02:19:30 pm by Fraser »
 
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Offline jumpy9734

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2019, 02:20:29 pm »
So from what i understand, worst-case scenario it could be stolen/confiscated.I'm being tempted to take that risk  ;)
Again, thanks for the helpful insight  :-+
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 02:23:17 pm by jumpy9734 »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2019, 02:27:37 pm »
In my personal opinion you would be very unlucky to suffer either if you have the unit declared as an “MSA5200” or “MSA5200 Pyrometer”. You can explain to the sender the absence of the words  “thermal camera” as theft avoidance. They may insist on calling it a MSA5200 Camera, which is also accurate. Ultimately the sender takes responsibility for what is written on the customs declaration and it is totally up to them what they describe the item as and its true value. Do not ever try to ‘bully’ a sender into making a false customs declaration. That would be very unfair.

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 02:57:50 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline Kiwiinusa

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2019, 11:02:05 pm »
Hi. Love the forum. Just got a dead indigo a10 camera for $100 (ebay). Had been reverse polaritied, blew the fuse and protection diode. Repaired and can see digital data but no rs170. Have been trying to connect using Tau2 software, rs232, 57200 bps.
I can see gui communications and camera  responding but no connection is created..
Can not find control software for a10 anywhere on the web.
Does anyone have software that would give me register access to the a10 configuration so I can turn on the rs170 output?
Many thanks john
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2019, 11:12:25 pm »
I do not think the TAU GUI recognises an A10. I may be wrong though.

You need to find the Indigo Photon GUI as that should work with the A10. The Photon GUI is downloadable from the archived pages of Indigo on the Wayback machine.

Kind Regards

Fraser
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2019, 11:19:07 pm »
Hmmmm, looks like you need the Omega specific GUI as the available Photon version needs later camera firmware than your Micron will have loaded.

In case if interest, here is an Omega/Micron FAQ....

http://web.archive.org/web/20061103164702/http://www.corebyindigo.com/service/FAQ_Micron.html

I will see what I can come up with on the Omega GUI front as I cannot access my software archives at the moment.

Fraser
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2019, 11:24:53 pm »
OK, I have found the Indigo Omega/A10 GUI for you.

It is at the bottom of this support page.......

http://www.flir.tw/cores/display/?id=53130

Make sure your communications are +-5V and the correct mark space polarity !

Enjoy  :-+

Fraser
 

Online Fraser

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Offline triplex

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Great info, thank you very much.
I've seen a lot MSA evolution 4000 firefighter cameras on ebay, is the core inside them valuable/fun to play with too?
 

Online Fraser

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Triplex,

See this thread.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/%28repair%29-help-needed-msa-evolution-4000/

The MSA 4000 contains the BAE SCC205 core. It is an ‘open frame’ rather than cased core. Still good though and very well built. I have no connection or control data  for the SCC205 though so it’s current configuration as a fire fighting camera core may not be reconfigurable.

Fraser
 
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