Author Topic: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)  (Read 5421 times)

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Offline KRYDER

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2019, 11:52:14 pm »
Hello,
First let me thank you for this post. I operate an exploration, research and recovery group and have used an A-10 Micro since 2007. and just a few weeks ago ours failed. And since we are self funded out of pocket I didn't think I would ever be able to replace it. However, after I read your blog here I ordered a used MSA 5200HD for quite a bit more than $100. and after I looked inside, it doesn't have an A-10 core? I can return it no problem, but I'm confused as to why it didn't have an A-10 core and curious how to make sure I get one next time.

The 5200HD I bought contained a core that was aluminum, short and seemed to be fully integrated into the PC board. Looks to be a Photon ??? Is that better than a A-10?


I found an MSA Evolution 5000 - Will this have the A-10 Micro core?

Also, the core itself, will it put out full resolution out of the AV output without any setup?

I appreciate your experience with Thermal imagery devices and hope to be able to get your advice as well.

Thanks,

Robert Kryder
Kryder Exploration

« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 12:39:32 am by KRYDER »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2019, 10:35:23 am »
Hi Robert,

Did the 5200HD have the Indigo label on its handle ?

I was not aware of an ‘open chassis’ core being used in that model. It must have been a change dictated by non-availability of the 320 x 240 pixel core at the time of production. Did you take any pictures of the core ?

All ‘standard’ 160 x 120 or 120 x 120 pixel 5000 series cameras contain an Indigo Omega / A10 core. The higher resolution HD model that you purchased clearly did not use the OMEGA 320 x 240 pixel core for reasons that are unknown to me.

If you just want a 160 x 120 pixel Omega, look for any of the 5000 series cameras with that resolution. I have detailed the different models earlier in this thread.

Fraser
 
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Offline KRYDER

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2019, 09:43:12 pm »
I didn't take a picture but this is the closest I could find. I believe it's a "Photon". (it has a little different lens)

I have a few questions if you don't mind:

Are you very familiar with these and how the Photon would compare to the A-10?

My A-10 seemed to have great resolution- Does the A-10 come with higher res than 160x120?

Am I correct to assume that the photon is twice the resolution of the A-10?

Finally, I'm wondering if the photon is "power in-video out" so I could connect power and get a video signal direct from the camera. And what it would take to connect to it and set it up for stand alone use.

Thanks for your help,

Rob
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2019, 10:14:31 pm »
Core Chronology:

First there was the Indigo Alpha
Then there was the Indigo Omega (FLIR A10)
Followed by the FLIR Photon(using Indigo expertise)
Then the TAU
Finally the TAU2

Performance improved with each successive core name.

The Indigo Omega (aka FLIR Micron A10) came in 160 x 120 and 320 x 240 pixel variants.
The Photon was a direct development of the omega core and was also available in 160 x 120 and 320 x 240 pixel variants. The Photon would normally provide a slightly lower noise image than the Omega due to improved microbolometer noise processing algorithms. The TAU cores are even better.

All of these cores can be configured in fully automatic mode with “power in - video out”. The configuration GUI is available from FLIR but you may need to construct a USB to UART interface to connect to the camera. See my TAU repair post in this Thermal forum for details of the interface. The full installation manual is also available from FLIR free of charge. Many of us have both this and the GUI.

Hope this helps

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 10:37:35 pm by Fraser »
 
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Offline KRYDER

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2019, 11:21:57 pm »
I cannot thank you enough. Sometimes the simplest information can be the most elusive and most helpful. I/we appreciate your expertise!

I've been researching the Photon and it seems I should be able to use it for our needs.
So basically it will be the same resolution as our 320x240 A10 but with more advanced circuitry and software. Its a little larger and heavier...
Yes I will have to build everything else from scratch...

To start, I assume I would need to build or obtain what I've seen called a "break-out connector" to put power in and get raw video out. That would be all we need at this time... **Unless**  it requires something else and or using the GUI to set it up to send NTSC video or other req etc...?

Do you have a posting showing how to build a simple break-out connector for the photon?

So from your above I assume the Photon and Tau have the same connector and pin configuration?





 
 

Offline KRYDER

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2019, 11:24:46 pm »
"All of these cores can be configured in fully automatic mode with “power in - video out”"

By configured, do you mean by wiring it directly or that it must be configured through a GUI first?
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2019, 11:49:06 pm »
That depends upon the original deployment of the core. In the case of a core that is used in a fire fighting camera, it is common for the core to be factory configured for fully automatic mode and provides video output upon power being applied to it. There is often a separate controller board in the camera that deals with the cameras power management, display and sometimes, special video overlays. That board is usually designed and provided by the camera manufacturer and not the core manufacturer.

The GUI is used to setup the operating state of the core at startup. This can be such things as electronic zoom level, image orientation (flipped vertical, flipped horizontal or just inverted), and things like on screen graphics, measurement and colour palette. Once the configuration is set and saved, the camera core remembers it and applies the settings on every start. The configuration data is held in non volatile memory on the core. That is to say, the core does not need an external controller board or a PC to start and operate. Just like your A10.

In a 5200HD camera the core will be configured to start up in fully automatic monochrome mode as soon as power is applied.

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 11:55:16 pm by Fraser »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2019, 12:05:26 am »
A side note,

The imaging cores provide a composite video output on their high density I/O connector and often also on a coaxial connector or contacts on the case exterior (for Video transmitter or DVR use). The quality of the image produced on a decent external monitor is often far superior to that seen on a fire fighting cameras internal monitor. Display technology has moved on since these older cameras were built.

Fraser
 

Offline KRYDER

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2019, 03:03:43 am »
And yes per your question above... it did have the indigo logo on the handle. I'll attach a pic...
 

Offline KRYDER

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2019, 03:14:33 am »
Excuse my lack of knowledge of terms.
I'm not sure what this is: "high density I/O connector"

The case on these units has a sm coaxial video out.... However I'm curious, does this feed come from the separate controller board or the camera itself?

Also I am still curious as to how to assemble a simple "break-out" adapter for "power in - video out" use.  I've included a picture of one but it doesn't indicate how to build one or what parts to acquire.

Thanks again!
 

Offline Cat

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2020, 11:19:41 pm »
Here is the teardown of a FLIR Micron A10 core. It's more or less the same what can be seen in the already posted teardown but in pictures  ;)
An interesting tear-down video of an OMEGA core that was being used in a CCTV camera housing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=D0OlWmr5R10

Unfortunately the core does not work :-BROKE
Current consumption seems OK (~185mA @ 5V) but there is no FFC event and the video out has 3,2V DC instead of the RS-170 video signal.
RS-232 lines stay at 0V but this seems to be the auto shutdown feature of the MAX3221.
Voltage regulators seem to work, on the power board there are 5 switch mode regulators:
LT1308A (SEPIC converter, 6,43V out)
2x LTC1877 (marking LTLU, buck converter, 1,50V and 1,78V out)
LT1613 (marking LTED, boost converter, 1,78V in, 3,38V out)
LT1617 (marking LTKA, inverting converter, -17,5V out)

Nothing gets unusually warm or hot, the DSP and the LT1498 (OPA on the ADC board) get a bit warm and the FPGA stays cool.

Interesting thing is the photoelectric sensor (IR LED + phototransistor in one "black" 4-pin package on the connector board in the corner near the green bodge wire). With a NIR-Cam it can be seen lighting up and it seems like the current consumption is a bit higher when there is no reflector while the power is supplied (202...198mA @ 5V without reflector, 192...178mA with reflector).

If anyone has a hint what could be wrong, let me know  ;D
Unfortunately there is another report of a dead A10:
I operate an exploration, research and recovery group and have used an A-10 Micro since 2007. and just a few weeks ago ours failed.

I'd try to get a serial connection, does anyone have a copy of the software mentioned here?
OK, I have found the Indigo Omega/A10 GUI for you.
It is at the bottom of this support page.......
http://www.flir.tw/cores/display/?id=53130
Maybe some settings are wrong but I doubt the imager can be completely halted by software.

regards
Cat
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Offline Cat

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Re: FLIR Micron A10 160 x 120 hiding in ‘disguise’ bought for $100 :)
« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2020, 12:56:37 am »
Seems like a few pictures didn't upload with the previous post...
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