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Hello,
First let me thank you for this post. I operate an exploration, research and recovery group and have used an A-10 Micro since 2007. and just a few weeks ago ours failed. And since we are self funded out of pocket I didn't think I would ever be able to replace it. However, after I read your blog here I ordered a used MSA 5200HD for quite a bit more than $100. and after I looked inside, it doesn't have an A-10 core? I can return it no problem, but I'm confused as to why it didn't have an A-10 core and curious how to make sure I get one next time.
The 5200HD I bought contained a core that was aluminum, short and seemed to be fully integrated into the PC board. Looks to be a Photon
Is that better than a A-10?
I found an MSA Evolution 5000 - Will this have the A-10 Micro core?
Also, the core itself, will it put out full resolution out of the AV output without any setup?
I appreciate your experience with Thermal imagery devices and hope to be able to get your advice as well.
Thanks,
Robert Kryder
Kryder Exploration
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Hi Robert,
Did the 5200HD have the Indigo label on its handle ?
I was not aware of an ‘open chassis’ core being used in that model. It must have been a change dictated by non-availability of the 320 x 240 pixel core at the time of production. Did you take any pictures of the core ?
All ‘standard’ 160 x 120 or 120 x 120 pixel 5000 series cameras contain an Indigo Omega / A10 core. The higher resolution HD model that you purchased clearly did not use the OMEGA 320 x 240 pixel core for reasons that are unknown to me.
If you just want a 160 x 120 pixel Omega, look for any of the 5000 series cameras with that resolution. I have detailed the different models earlier in this thread.
Fraser -
I didn't take a picture but this is the closest I could find. I believe it's a "Photon". (it has a little different lens)
I have a few questions if you don't mind:
Are you very familiar with these and how the Photon would compare to the A-10?
My A-10 seemed to have great resolution- Does the A-10 come with higher res than 160x120?
Am I correct to assume that the photon is twice the resolution of the A-10?
Finally, I'm wondering if the photon is "power in-video out" so I could connect power and get a video signal direct from the camera. And what it would take to connect to it and set it up for stand alone use.
Thanks for your help,
Rob
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Core Chronology:
First there was the Indigo Alpha
Then there was the Indigo Omega (FLIR A10)
Followed by the FLIR Photon(using Indigo expertise)
Then the TAU
Finally the TAU2
Performance improved with each successive core name.
The Indigo Omega (aka FLIR Micron A10) came in 160 x 120 and 320 x 240 pixel variants.
The Photon was a direct development of the omega core and was also available in 160 x 120 and 320 x 240 pixel variants. The Photon would normally provide a slightly lower noise image than the Omega due to improved microbolometer noise processing algorithms. The TAU cores are even better.
All of these cores can be configured in fully automatic mode with “power in - video out”. The configuration GUI is available from FLIR but you may need to construct a USB to UART interface to connect to the camera. See my TAU repair post in this Thermal forum for details of the interface. The full installation manual is also available from FLIR free of charge. Many of us have both this and the GUI.
Hope this helps
Fraser
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I cannot thank you enough. Sometimes the simplest information can be the most elusive and most helpful. I/we appreciate your expertise!
I've been researching the Photon and it seems I should be able to use it for our needs.
So basically it will be the same resolution as our 320x240 A10 but with more advanced circuitry and software. Its a little larger and heavier...
Yes I will have to build everything else from scratch...
To start, I assume I would need to build or obtain what I've seen called a "break-out connector" to put power in and get raw video out. That would be all we need at this time... **Unless** it requires something else and or using the GUI to set it up to send NTSC video or other req etc...?
Do you have a posting showing how to build a simple break-out connector for the photon?
So from your above I assume the Photon and Tau have the same connector and pin configuration?
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"All of these cores can be configured in fully automatic mode with “power in - video out”"
By configured, do you mean by wiring it directly or that it must be configured through a GUI first? -
That depends upon the original deployment of the core. In the case of a core that is used in a fire fighting camera, it is common for the core to be factory configured for fully automatic mode and provides video output upon power being applied to it. There is often a separate controller board in the camera that deals with the cameras power management, display and sometimes, special video overlays. That board is usually designed and provided by the camera manufacturer and not the core manufacturer.
The GUI is used to setup the operating state of the core at startup. This can be such things as electronic zoom level, image orientation (flipped vertical, flipped horizontal or just inverted), and things like on screen graphics, measurement and colour palette. Once the configuration is set and saved, the camera core remembers it and applies the settings on every start. The configuration data is held in non volatile memory on the core. That is to say, the core does not need an external controller board or a PC to start and operate. Just like your A10.
In a 5200HD camera the core will be configured to start up in fully automatic monochrome mode as soon as power is applied.
Fraser -
A side note,
The imaging cores provide a composite video output on their high density I/O connector and often also on a coaxial connector or contacts on the case exterior (for Video transmitter or DVR use). The quality of the image produced on a decent external monitor is often far superior to that seen on a fire fighting cameras internal monitor. Display technology has moved on since these older cameras were built.
Fraser -
And yes per your question above... it did have the indigo logo on the handle. I'll attach a pic...
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Excuse my lack of knowledge of terms.
I'm not sure what this is: "high density I/O connector"
The case on these units has a sm coaxial video out.... However I'm curious, does this feed come from the separate controller board or the camera itself?
Also I am still curious as to how to assemble a simple "break-out" adapter for "power in - video out" use. I've included a picture of one but it doesn't indicate how to build one or what parts to acquire.
Thanks again!
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Here is the teardown of a FLIR Micron A10 core. It's more or less the same what can be seen in the already posted teardown but in pictures
An interesting tear-down video of an OMEGA core that was being used in a CCTV camera housing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=D0OlWmr5R10
Unfortunately the core does not work
Current consumption seems OK (~185mA @ 5V) but there is no FFC event and the video out has 3,2V DC instead of the RS-170 video signal.
RS-232 lines stay at 0V but this seems to be the auto shutdown feature of the MAX3221.
Voltage regulators seem to work, on the power board there are 5 switch mode regulators:
LT1308A (SEPIC converter, 6,43V out)
2x LTC1877 (marking LTLU, buck converter, 1,50V and 1,78V out)
LT1613 (marking LTED, boost converter, 1,78V in, 3,38V out)
LT1617 (marking LTKA, inverting converter, -17,5V out)
Nothing gets unusually warm or hot, the DSP and the LT1498 (OPA on the ADC board) get a bit warm and the FPGA stays cool.
Interesting thing is the photoelectric sensor (IR LED + phototransistor in one "black" 4-pin package on the connector board in the corner near the green bodge wire). With a NIR-Cam it can be seen lighting up and it seems like the current consumption is a bit higher when there is no reflector while the power is supplied (202...198mA @ 5V without reflector, 192...178mA with reflector).
If anyone has a hint what could be wrong, let me know
Unfortunately there is another report of a dead A10:I operate an exploration, research and recovery group and have used an A-10 Micro since 2007. and just a few weeks ago ours failed.
I'd try to get a serial connection, does anyone have a copy of the software mentioned here?OK, I have found the Indigo Omega/A10 GUI for you.
Maybe some settings are wrong but I doubt the imager can be completely halted by software.
It is at the bottom of this support page.......
http://www.flir.tw/cores/display/?id=53130
regards
Cat
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Seems like a few pictures didn't upload with the previous post...
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Hi all,
since I was not able to download the software for the A10 using the wayback machine, I would kindly like to ask if someone has a copy of the Indigo Photon GUI which he can share with me. It would be really helpful.
Thanks a lot! -
Mrlight
There are Omega-A10 cores and Photon cores. Please confirm which GUI you need and I will upload it.
Fraser -
Hi Fraser,
I'm not a 100% sure which GUI I will need. I assume that it is an Omega-A10 Core.
My Cam has not very much valuable information on it.
It has a indigo 11mm lens installed. And a label with a type id of 412-0006-07 Rev.310 on it.
Comparing the pictures in the ThermoVision Micron/A10 Camera User Guide. It is a Omega A10
Thank you very much for your help!
Mrlight
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I have uploaded the Omega Core GUI here for anyone to download.....
http://www.filedropper.com/omega-gui
Remember, it will likely need WinXP as the platform on which it is run. Observe correct signal polarity and amplitude when connecting to the Omega Core. It is NOT standard RS232 levels !
Fraser -
Hi,I have msa 5200 and 5600 and cores are identical with photon cores inside the flir sr 19 cameras. I will swap them and have a play. Sr core have 320 resolution. My Sr cores have shutter actuator failed. Any ideas where from can I get parts?
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MickVA, I reintegrated my core with a broken FFC shutter actuator in a custom shroud that reads off the drive signal for the shutter and flips another motor to an endstop.
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hello Fraser, I am looking for the software for a indigo omega core, the file hosting site which you used appears to no longer have the file available:( I have just procured the last of the parts needed to hook up my core via rs232 but I am not having any luck finding a download for what the user manual is calling the (micron/a10 control panel software), I believe that's what I need. I have the Indigo omega core, I believe its is the 160x120 resolution model, I just need the software to use it on my pc, I have a machine running xp that I use for legacy equipment, which I would assume would work with that era of software. I would greatly appreciate any help with finding this software, thank you!
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I will look in my software archive for you
Fraser -
69uremum,
Link to the file on my Google Drive sent via PM
Fraser -
I just got my Indigo Omega today, it seems to have a few problems...
The most annoying one is the picture have a warm halo, that is, it become brighter and more difficult to see things towards the edges.
It don't correct with NUC, and it's not changing with different lens, and it's not perfectly centered.
if I put my hand in front of the sensor while NUC, it makes a difference. (Why?)
Any idea what cause this?
I saw similar issue before on a TAU2 and my Fluke IR-insight, although I didn't test the hand-in-front on them.
Other problems are:
The NUC motor frame and gear is slightly broken, it burst out a loud noise(gear slides sound) every NUC. Which indicates the unit might be dropped. But this does not affect the correct NUC action.
The GUI cannot connect to the camera, I'm using 3.3v TTL which works on TAU, what's OMEGA's logic level? -
Just to add here, MSA 4100 seems also use this Indigo core (guessed from GUI).
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The GUI cannot connect to the camera, I'm using 3.3v TTL which works on TAU, what's OMEGA's logic level?
I guess it would be standard RS232 levels, but maybe someone else can confirm that?
I've seen many fire fighting TICs with this core on ebay with "white screen of death", what could cause that? -
The GUI cannot connect to the camera, I'm using 3.3v TTL which works on TAU, what's OMEGA's logic level?
I guess it would be standard RS232 levels, but maybe someone else can confirm that?
I've seen many fire fighting TICs with this core on ebay with "white screen of death", what could cause that?
Yes, standard 232.
White screen is caused by FPGA failure, checked by swapping across FPA between a white screen and normal unit, works fine on another board, just with bad pixel map as expected.
May do an instrumentation run on the FPA to get signals out and then document startup. Have a few borked Indigo photons and would like to give em another lease on life