Author Topic: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser  (Read 46925 times)

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Offline schmiernippel

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #100 on: August 21, 2019, 11:45:53 am »
At the moment i have borrowed the cam a friend so i can not make a photo. But just google "micro usb pinout". When you have soldered the wires on the usb, double check the polarity !
 

Offline exciter

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #101 on: September 22, 2019, 11:49:41 pm »
Hi,
buyed a dead F1G2 on eBay.
Had to reflow the NAND to have the orange LED starting working for now...
previous owner broke the black 4Pin Socket on the mainboard. This socket is used for 4Pin mobile phone connector.
I measured 1mm pitch but I don’t know it’s height since it’s gone.
Can someone please measure out?
Regards
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 11:51:43 pm by exciter »
 

Offline exciter

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2019, 07:02:28 pm »
Hard reset didn’t change anything. Got only the orange light, no charging led...
So I removed the AT91SAM, reballed the Chip and soldered it back.
Now the device is working as it should. You could clearly see that some solder balls didn’t made contact to the BGA because some contacts didn’t shine after removing. So after Nand (0.35mm) and CPU (0.5mm)  reball the device is fine.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 02:35:37 am by exciter »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #103 on: September 30, 2019, 07:33:10 pm »
Exciter,

Excellent post  :-+

I have had FLIR ONE G2 unit’s that also do not respond to a hard reset. I basically put them in storage until such time as I either felt motivated to investigate further, or harvested the Lepton core from them for other projects. I never did feel motivated to delve deeper into the F1G2 issues as I fell out of love with the design!
At one point I had around a dozen dead F1G2 units piled up awaiting my attention. That is when I knew the product has ‘issues’. No other thermal camera I had come across was so prone to failure or power related issues. I wonder if the F1G3 is more reliable ? I decline to work on any of these FLIR One unit’s now as they are not worth my time.

It is very interesting to read that there is a BGA ball flow issue as that helps to explain why there seemed to be whole batches of dud F1G2 units hitting the market. There was clearly a production line issue that was not detected. Some units suffer from battery or power management chip issues but this latest comment from you suggests that the F1G2 may also suffer from extensive BGA production defects.

Please will you detail the equipment you used to rework the small BGA components. I have hot air and IR BGA Rework stations. I bought the IR BGA Rework station to experiment with repairing laptop motherboards, specifically the North and South Bridge chips. Those are huge compared to the BGA components in the F1G2 ! On the hot air front I have both conventional sized hand pieces with various nozzles and various hot air pencils for fine SMT work.

Fraser
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 07:38:13 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline Uho

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2019, 06:52:33 am »
I watched two broken F1G3 from one batch. Symptoms of failure are the same with F1G2. They work after the controller warms up with a hairdryer.
 

Offline exciter

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #105 on: October 03, 2019, 07:11:34 am »
Hi,
I use a Weller WSP80 soldering station and a aoyue int 968 hot air (waiting for a BST-863).
Additionally I have got a old PACE station with vacuum pump and desoldering iron.
For SMD work I use a old Zeiss stereo microscope with an old lamp stand.
I attached some pics.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 08:41:52 am by exciter »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #106 on: October 03, 2019, 11:25:04 am »
Exciter,

Many thanks  :-+

Nice bench setup in your loft ..... I need to de clutter my work area as I find myself working on the dining room table at the moment ! My wife is none too impressed !

I love that you included the term “old” in your equipment details ...... I am of the view that “Old” is fine if it gets the job done  :-+ “Old”, originally expensive, can often be better than “New”, cheap  ;D

Well done on the repair  :-+

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 11:27:24 am by Fraser »
 

Offline jldesigns.eu

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #107 on: November 15, 2019, 11:07:08 am »
Hello Guys.

I've also bought a broken Flir one gen 2 (first one attached to the phone). After reading the post about resetting the module I thought it will be a straight forward but not exacly...

The symptom were in my case:
- orange LED always on (red and green bought lighten up)
- after holding the button for about 10s the orange light is going down, but after releasing the button it light buck up
- i saw a green light briefly go down for a split of the second after connecting the battery
- charg led is not lighting and the battery was not charged
- cam was not detectable by the phone

I've charged the battery externally. The reset procedure didn't work for me.

After reading the post bout reballing I've decide to give a shot to reheat the chips, so I've poured some flux on flash and man CPU, and reheated them with hotair. Of course I know it would not be permanent, but I deducted that the units were testes in factory, so a cold joints are pretty probable (especially since my unit was factory new condition) , and reheating could work, and it did work to some degree...

Now the camera is more alive:
- after pressing button the light goes orange, and then green is flashing (around 1s period)
- the camera is detectable by the phone, It reads the battery percentage, but no image from any camera
- the charging light is still not lighting
- if i turn it on (the green light flashes) and not connect it to the phone it truns off after some time.

Questions:
1. What would You recommend to do next?
2. Green flash meaning its booting, it should be solid after it boots properly?
3. Is there a serial UART somewhere on the board like in the case of Flir One Case (for iphone 5) like Mike showed in his video?
4. When raballing can You confirm is it a CPU and not Flash? Resitting both is 2x more risky. I've never did any reballing... Watch a ton of YT videos... but still not confident :) Is it easier when reball the chip with bought balls (not stencil)?
5. Maybe somebody have a tested working open hardware project for breakout board for Lepton, possibly if it straight forward to use/test it?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

===============EDIT===================

I've also verified that the battery is charging now - it draws around 500ma, but the charge led is off. I don't see any move on the shutter at any point.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 11:39:40 am by jldesigns.eu »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #108 on: November 15, 2019, 11:58:41 am »
From what I have read, removing the CPU, Flash and power management chips is the best option as it would appear that there was a real quality control issue with the soldering of these components at the factory. It could be  caused by many factors such as contamination of pads, incorrect reflow profile or flux issues.

Re-balling such small components is not for the faint hearted. I personally use solder balls but others have success with stencils and solder paste so both techniques work. The solder paste is heated on the chip to create solder balls so the result is similar. More flux will be needed when attaching to the PCB of course.

I suspect if you remove the BGA chips you will find issues evident on the PCB pads, as others have discovered. The PCB pads should be cleaned of all residual lead free solder, re-tinned with leaded solder (I use LMP with silver) then cleaned again to create nice receptive pads for the leaded solder on the BGA chip. This is not a quick process, especially if new to doing BGA work (like me!) so it makes no commercial sense to undertake the repair. For you it is different and you stand a good chance of reviving the unit provided the solder balls do not merge under the BGA.

I understand that controlled hot air (not a paint stripping stripping gun) is adequate for these small chips. I just bought a Jovy IR BGA Rework station and will be testing it on some BGA tasks that I have waiting for it’s arrival. I may try it on the FLIR One G2 as I have some awaiting my attention. The Jovy may be a sledgehammer to crack a nut however !

Most Lepton breakout/dev boards that contain a processor are over priced in my humble opinion. The ‘dumb’ version is affordable but not as useful. I have yet to find a reasonably priced intelligent dev board for the Lepton 3.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 12:02:19 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline jldesigns.eu

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2019, 07:30:56 am »
Thanks Fraser.

I'm confident with smd till 0402, don't have an microscope, and only simplest and cheapest hot air station.

I'm gone give it a try, but have a question to exciter.
1. How to remove this uderfill? Heat + rubbing?
2. Should I do both chips at once or just CPU?
3. I don't have a preheater, would you recommend to get it or for this small PCB hot air is fine?
4. Any other advice?
 

Offline exciter

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #110 on: November 21, 2019, 10:59:11 am »
Hi,

As far as I can remember there is no complete cpu underfill.
There is just the resin holding the chip in place. I removed it with a thin solder tip.
There might be a little bit of resin under the chip, but I had no problem removing the chip.
I also used a preheater but I was also able to remove the chip only with my hot-air station.
I started with the nand, but the fault was because of broken cpu  solder joints.
Would try to reflow the nand first. If the fault persists I would reball the CPU.
You need to remove the old solder from the board an chip as goof as you can. Clean the PCB and chip with MEK or alcohol. Use leaded solder balls for reballing because of the lower melting point.
Be sure all solder is melted before you remove the chip ( watch nearby components for melted solder, push chip from the side and look out for movement(may not work because of the resin)).
You will avoid ripped pads if you are carefully. Move the nozzle evenly...
 

Offline ftonello

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #111 on: January 21, 2020, 06:46:35 pm »
Anyone interested in a Flir One Gen2 that i f***-up trying to reball?
Or Should i send it to Dave, so he can do a video about it.
 ;)



« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 06:50:57 pm by ftonello »
Hi from Brazil!!!
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #112 on: January 21, 2020, 07:21:28 pm »
I would be interested in it please :)

Fraser
UK
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 07:27:13 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline All Seeing Eye

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #113 on: January 22, 2020, 03:59:19 pm »
FLIRONE's battery design is very stupid, and it goes wrong again and again.
 

Offline ftonello

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #114 on: January 22, 2020, 06:26:01 pm »
This is disturbing, because a plan to buy another one...Flir One is a pocket tool in my area...
Hi from Brazil!!!
 

Offline Robster69

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #115 on: June 20, 2020, 12:27:17 pm »
Fraser
Please can you let me know what hot air heat temp you used for removing the cpu and nand chips?
I have a preheater to help with the removal...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 12:29:05 pm by Robster69 »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #116 on: June 20, 2020, 12:41:45 pm »
Every brand rework station will behave slightly differently due to air flow, distance from chip etc. I strongly suggest you practice on some scrap boards before attempting rework on a F1G2 PCB.

I now use A Jovy 7500 Infrared rework station with proper heat profiling. Hot air was OK but for delicate work I prefer IR.

Working on the F1G2 is not for the faint hearted and there is significant risk of killing it good and proper !

Fraser
 
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