Author Topic: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser  (Read 46927 times)

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Online Fraser

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I have just knowingly bought a faulty F1G2 Android that has the 'lights on, nobody home' failure symptom. I bought it in order to investigate what causes this apparently quite common failure.

When the camera arrives, hopefully this week, I will dismantle it and carry out some basic checks. Sadly I am not in a position to meddle with the ARM processor configuration, so if that is corrupted it will be 'game over'. If the problem is a discrete component or physical failure I may be able to shed some light on the matter.

At worst I will learn more about the F1G2 Android and I will have a spares donor with a nice LEPTON 3 on it.

The daft thing is that I could likely sell the tested LEPTON 3 on ebay for more than I paid or the whole faulty camera ! I wonder how much FLIR are asking for a Lepton 3 these days ?

I will also be able to experiment with the LEPTON 3 lens system without risking either of my my working F1G2 units Lepton's as well. The position of the FFC shutter is a bit inconvenient but that can be overcome. Bill W may be doing some experimentation with the optics as well. I have some very nice mini Germanium optical blocks to play with :)

I will update this thread as and when I have any news. No promises  though as the F1G2 does not strike me as the most repairable of thermal cameras.

Fraser
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 10:57:59 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 12:38:49 am »
Cool. Looking forward to the repair, etc., Fraser.
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Offline Bill W

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 02:40:55 pm »
From my experiments, the most likely cause is the Lepton becoming unseated.  Had that a lot.

Another could be using an extension lead.  This is why I have not posted lately  |O as most USB extension leads are not useful.  Most are set up for OTG while the F1G2 needs either all 5 wires or not OTG pin grounded.  I ended up buying the bits and making my own after 3 dud purchases and slicing the 3rd one apart to investigate.

Bill
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 02:52:34 pm »
Hi Bill,

Thanks for that useful information  :-+

I will be receiving the faulty camera tomorrow. I will check the LEPTON for good seating in its holder.

I suspect these cameras get dropped, which could cause parts to pop out of holders etc.

Fraser
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 07:42:43 pm »
I had considered an extension lead, but hadn't looked into it yet. Thanks for that heads up, Bill.
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2017, 03:39:07 pm »
The faulty F1G2 arrived today.

It looks like new and came with both the Micro USB adapters that FLIR released to provide connector reversal or exetension  :)

The investigation begins  :)

Fraser
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 05:01:54 pm »
Oh well, that was pretty boring !

The F1G2 is now working fine  :)

The fault ? It had crashed.

I plugged the F1G2 into the charger and it did not illuminate the green charge LED. The power button was illuminated constant orange and the camera would not boot. No amount of plugging/unplugging or attempts to reset the camera worked.

Disconnection of the Lithium battery and re-connection initiated a cold boot of the camera and it immediately started to function normally. First the power button lit red plus orange, then it flashed, then extinguished. The FFC shutter could be heard to activate.

There was an interesting finding though. The battery connector is a POS. ANY movement of the battery cable moves the contact surfaces and the camera reboots from cold. Such a situation can cause system crashes as the varying supply due to poor contact can generate all sorts of cr*p on the power input rail. Any power watchdog circuit gets multiple sequential restart situations and keeps resetting the processor. Eventually the camera crashes and a full power off reset is needed.This requires removal of the battery connector. I proved this during testing by deliberately moving the battery cable a few times until the camera locked up. It was easily reset by disconnection of the battery.

FLIR have used a particularly poor connector for the battery. An attempt was made to stabilise it using a piece of adhesive foam but that will not prevent movement of the contacts if the camera is given a bump. 

I tested the camera without the battery fitted and it does boot. It then flashes a battery fault code using the green charge LED. It was not doing that when received as the processor was not a happy bunny.

All is working correctly now and the camera will go through some testing to check for any other issues.

Fraser
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 05:05:43 pm by Fraser »
 
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Offline tomas123

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 06:58:58 pm »
Works the camera fine without the battery (after successful booting)?
I thing about removing the battery from case for non-stop operations (24/7).

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2017, 07:25:11 pm »
It booted fine but I did not try running it on the phone without a battery. I cannot say how it will behave without a battery for long periods of time. The power circuits could generate quite a bit of heat which may cause internal thermal issues.

I may have another play with the camera at the weekend but I have a few other tasks to complete first.

Fraser
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2017, 08:14:42 pm »
Thank you :-+

Offline bitseeker

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2017, 08:24:40 pm »
This is the first I've heard of it locking up like that. Very interesting. Glad you were able to narrow down the cause. I'll keep that in mind should mine ever get stuck.

Being able to run it without the internal battery would be nice, especially for desktop use.
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2017, 09:23:19 pm »
I do not think that lots of F1G2 cameras lock up but you do see cameras being sold as faulty on eBay. The symptoms are usually "will not switch on". I suspect some suffer from a less than perfect life and get bumped a lot or it may just be that some have less than perfect battery connections ? I checked for dry joints on the battery connector.... none found. I will secure the battery connector wick a suitable non permanent adhesive such as UHU or Bostick No.1

I have had the camera running in a cycle of discharge then charge, discharge then charge all evening and it is working perfectly.

I advised the seller that I had repaired the camera. He was thrilled and said he wanted to take a look inside but could not find a way in ! I feel sorry for the chap and have offered to sell the camera back to him with a small additional fee for my work.

Fraser
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 09:29:05 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2017, 09:28:05 pm »
I guess that felt/sponge atop the connector is supposed to help stop them from coming out. Maybe they should have gone with a slide-in style low-profile connector if common JST is too bulky. I'll take care when I sling mine into the draw from now on.
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2017, 10:25:49 pm »
I feel sorry for the chap and have offered to sell the camera back to him with a small additional fee for my work.

 :-DD :-+
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Offline nowlan

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2017, 05:06:56 am »
Was there no warranty on the device? Feel like flir could have sussed it out.
 

Offline Uho

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2017, 07:53:19 pm »
What is the actual battery life time? My Flir only works 30 minutes.
 


Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2017, 09:26:31 pm »
I did a run time test on the repaired F1G2 to cycle the battery. Run time was 1 hour of continuous operation.

I have seen F1G2 cameras for sale with a stated fault of low battery capacity. There may be a battery quality issue at work here.

If your camera is under warranty, I recommend you contact FLIR and get it looked at.

If not, the battery is nothing special and another foilpack Lithium unit so fitting one of the same dimensions and capacity is feasible. The battery connector and leads will need to be transplanted onto the new battery as the connector is tiny and I do not know its maker or ID.

Fraser
 

Offline Chanc3

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2017, 11:07:26 am »
I did a run time test on the repaired F1G2 to cycle the battery. Run time was 1 hour of continuous operation.

I have seen F1G2 cameras for sale with a stated fault of low battery capacity. There may be a battery quality issue at work here.

If your camera is under warranty, I recommend you contact FLIR and get it looked at.

If not, the battery is nothing special and another foilpack Lithium unit so fitting one of the same dimensions and capacity is feasible. The battery connector and leads will need to be transplanted onto the new battery as the connector is tiny and I do not know its maker or ID.

Fraser

This sounds spot on. We bought one to take to meets etc, but wouldn't charge after the first day of use! Back to Amazon it goes for full refund. I've been told the Gen3 models are a vast improvement.
 

Offline Woodside

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2017, 09:20:59 pm »
I bought a new unopened Flir One 2nd Gen from ebay in February.  For the first week, it worked fine, although my phone (OnePlus One) got extremently hot whislt the phone was connected.

After around a week, when I plugged it into the phone, the phone shut off.  The only solution was to remove the camera and the phone would then restart.

Flir, would not accept the device under warranty as I had not purchased from an Authorised Reseller.

Investigation revealed that the Vbus pin on the micro USB connector on the F1G2 was shorted to earth.  So after the F1G2 had been identified as an OTG device and the phone took Vbus high, it was being shorted to earth.  Presumably the battery protection on the phone cut off the supply.

The problem was a solder bridge on the back of the 4 pin connector on the USB connector board.

With the solder bridge removed, the camera now works again regarding the led indicators, charging etc.and the phone no longer shuts down.

Unfortunately, when I plug it into the phone, most of the time the Flir App doesnt regognise the camera and when it does, it show an image for about a second before it freezes and then goes black.  I have also tried it on another OnePlus one and a Samsung Galaxy SII (flashed to Android 4.4.4), both of which behave the same


 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2017, 10:31:30 pm »
There is another dead FLIR ONE G2 on its way to me. Charges OK, Orange led lights, but no one at home :)

Maybe this one will be more interesting than a simple iffy power connector ?

Fraser
 

Offline newex

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2017, 04:21:00 pm »
Do not be flattered about the ease of such repairs.
Fraser is just lucky ;)
I bought two dead F1G2.
The first for iOs, the second for android. The first one had a faulty charge controller.
For the second, the reball processor was required. When I removed the processor, a large number of pads were gray.
Therefore, if you do not have experience with the bga, you can spend money for nothing.
 

Offline Woodside

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2017, 12:38:18 pm »
Quote
The first for iOs, the second for android. The first one had a faulty charge controller.
For the second, the reball processor was required. When I removed the processor, a large number of pads were gray.

What were the symptoms exhibited by the two dead F1G2s you had?

I have not purchased a dead F1G2, mine has gone faulty.  With careful timing of switching it on and plugging into the phone (android) I can get a display for a few seconds and then the display freezes.

Malcolm
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2017, 01:08:24 pm »
OK, my next F1G2 patient has arrived.

As suspected, the camera is as new in the box with all accessories including the USB port reversal adapter  :) The camera appears unused and has no marks on it at all. I strongly suspect that this is a customer return that was DOA rather than failing in service.

Symptoms of the units failure:

1. Will not turn on using the power button.
2. When USB charger plugged in, Power button lights Orange and pulses every 18 seconds.
3. With charger connected, there is no green charge LED lit.
4. With charger connected camera remains unresponsive to the power button.
5. There are no signs of life from the camera beyond the Orange power button LED.

My kitten, Billy, has carried out a 'Cat scan' on the unit and declared it "of no interest" so he will leave it to me to repair  ;D

The first step in the repair process will be to open the case and disconnect the battery connector, clean and inspect it, and then reconnect it.
I will not be that surprised if the camera then comes back from the dead  ;)

More news when I get time to open the camera.

Fraser
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2017, 08:31:58 pm »
First progress report on the cameras state.

1. The battery removal and refitting trick did not work for this patient.
2. The 3.7V LiPo cell p.d read 3.0V but was not locked out by the protection PCB.
3. I could cause changes in the behaviour of the camera by connecting and disconnecting the battery/USB charger cable. The Amber LED would go from solid to flashing and remain flashing for a short time after charger disconnection. I believe this to be due to the discharged LiPo cell.
4. My LiPo charger refused to see the cell which indicates that its p.d was below acceptable levels for the charger.
5. The LiPo cell was briefly charged on a Lab PSU at 3.7V Current limited to 350mA. After a few minutes the current dropped below the 350mA limit. The cell was transferred to the LiPo charger and this time the charger was happy to begin a normal charge cycle.

More later when the LiPo is charged and tested.

Fraser
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 10:39:51 pm by Fraser »
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2017, 10:19:25 pm »
OK, Patient resuscitated and healthy  :)

The LiPo cell was charged and refitted in the camera. The camera only illuminated the Orange power button LED and could not be shut down.
The camera appeared to be in a permanent 'on' state but not booting. This would explain the fact that when connected to the USB charger the power LED lit ORANGE and stayed on.

In order to reset the camera to its correct stand-by state and normal operation I carried out the following reset routine after some experimentation

1. Disconnect the LiPo cell from the PCB
2. Connect the USB charging cable. The Orange Power button LED will light
3. Press and hold the Power button until the Power button LED extinguishes - forced shut-down (If you release the button it will go back to solid Orange again. i.e. no change in state)
4. Whilst still holding the Power button in, disconnect the USB charging lead, then release the Power button
5. Reconnect the LiPo battery. The Power LED will light Orange.
6. Press the Power button. The Power LED will start to flash green and the camera will boot normally
7. Press the Power button to switch off the camera
8. Push the Power button and the camera will boot normally.

The camera is now working normally. It appears that these cameras have somewhat flaky firmware that can get locked into a permanent semi-standby state that will flatten the battery completely (to the cameras 3.0V cut-off point). The only way to recover the firmware to a state that works is to carry out the a full system reset as detailed above. This erased the registers and sets the camera to its factory default conditions. From that point onwards it can boot normally.

I seem to recall that FLIR provided some similar instructions to factory Reset the old FLIR ONE Gen1 for iOS. They told people to let the battery go completely flat before a power on reset sequence. I forget the details but my experimentation came up with an equivalent for the F1G2.

Hope this helps others.

Fraser
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 10:37:48 pm by Fraser »
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2017, 10:28:06 pm »
I just found the reset instructions for the Flir One Gen1....

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/flir-one-personal-infrared-camera-for-iphone5-no-green-light-blinking/msg616240/#msg616240

Different to the F1G2 as there is no reset button and the process is different to my procedure. Why the FLIR ONE G1 needs to have its battery flattened AFTER pressing the reset button is a mystery to me.

Fraser
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2017, 11:04:22 pm »
I forgot to mention, after the battery was charged and camera reset, the green LED 'charging' indicator started operating again. it could well be that the battery was so discharged that the F1G2 charging circuit would not start.

Fraser
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2017, 01:42:50 am »
Nice sleuthing, Fraser. Great to info to have in mind should my F1G2 ever go bonkers.
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Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2017, 02:16:24 pm »
Greetings to you, friends. So I had the same problem. I'll tell you everything from the beginning ...

First time, i connect it with my phone, install official software from google market. Flir will work correctly. I take 2 pictures, it's ok, and i desided to disconnect flir for charging.

I connect charger and wait. When it fully charged i try to power on device, but orange led isn't change color to green and not change color. Flir isn't power on correctly now, phone cann't see him, and flir have no reaction to connecting charger to him (not blinking led near USB).

If connect charger thru USB ampere-meter and to device, that shows, that no current, but if i press power button about 15 seconds, button light goes out, and if kept pressed this button connect USB charger, then accumulator start charging (ampere-meter shows current about 650mA and under as the battery is charging). But if i release power button, she start light by orange color and nothing happens.

Solved the problem by disconnecting and attaching again the battery. It worked correctly with the phone, but by connecting the device to another phone the orange LED lighted up again and I returned to the same problem, but I could not solve it by the same method. The above recommendations do not help either. Symptoms are the same as for the first time.

What else can be done? I can measure voltage anywhere, resistance, if it need. Help me please, guys.
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2017, 05:36:36 pm »
My first question would be, is the unit new and purchased from a FLIR agent ? If so, return it for a replacement as that will ensure long term reliability.

I shall have to test the latest repaired unit on other phones and see if it remains stable.

I have been asked to look at 14 of these cameras that are all faulty. I have yet to decide whether they are worth my time and effort as I cannot charge much per unit for the repair. I suspect that there is either a duff batch of cameras or a flaky firmware in the 'wild'.

Fraser
 

Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2017, 07:27:16 pm »
No, it's not from a FLIR agent.
 

Offline marshallh

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2017, 04:00:39 am »
I had this silly battery problem happen to me (I bought one at launch). In fact my unit did not work brand new out of the box.

So, I took it apart as I had planned to anyway, and in the process replugging the battery.
The unit worked fine afterwards.
Seems to be a weak point as well as the firmware.
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2017, 07:50:52 am »
I am tempted to solder the battery wires to the PCB socket, but that makes it less convenient to do a 'Hard' reset if required. As previously stated, the battery connector is a pretty poor type that can easily suffer intermittent contacts.

Fraser
 

Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2017, 08:24:42 am »
What can I do in my case? Can I test the operation of individual modules, for example Lepton 3?
Almost about 2 weeks he is in this state, and I do not know what can i do.  :(
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 08:30:27 am by McDoS »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2017, 10:53:42 am »
It is unlikely to be a LEPTON3 fault. Have you ensured that it is correctly seated in its socket as Bill W has found issues with this. The power management IC is also worth checking for correct operation.

Sadly beyond these basic checks you are pretty much stuck with a dead unit. They are not exactly repairer friendly unless you are equipped with appropriate hot air rework equipment. If the firmware is at fault, no amount of hardware diagnostics will help.

I am sorry that it is not better news. I am still finding my way around these highly integrated cameras so cannot offer anything more useful at the moment.

Fraser
 

Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2017, 06:24:02 am »
LEPTON 3 is normal sitting in his socket. All ICs have a stable voltage. Seat of LEPTON 3 have all three voltage variants, that declared in datasheet. MAX31725 also have a normal voltage, that declared in datasheet. I have a gas soldering-iron (have a nozzles for warming up), who was helps me once to reboil a microchip on the phone after falling to the floor, but i think it can't help me in this case and i'm afraid to use it there.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 06:27:03 am by McDoS »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2017, 12:04:50 pm »
Two FLIR ONE G2 iOS versions are now on their way to me.

Two more patients to examine. Hopefully they will work with my IPod Touch 5.

More news when I have some.

Fraser
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2017, 09:36:13 am »
The two IOS versions have arrived. No time at the moment to investigate their failures. More from me when time permits.

Fraser
 

Offline marlendive

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2017, 07:48:17 am »
Hello everybody,
I write from Italy and I found some possible solutions only on this forum;
I bought a F1G2 for Android from a private ( |O) and when I received it and plugged to the USB connection, I realized the orange led stayed lighted on.
I tried to disconnect the battery, connected the USB charging cable (and the orange power button led lighted), pressed and held the power button (the led extinguished), while still holding the power button I disconnected the USB charging cable, then released the power button.
Then I reconnected the battery, but the led DIDN'T light. Nor it did pressing the power button.
It just lights up when I plug the USB charging cable, that's it.
Any suggestions?
Thank you all
greetings
 

Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2017, 08:03:48 am »
Can you measure the voltage on the battery?
 

Offline marlendive

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2017, 08:48:22 am »
I will do it today.
The matter is, when it is connected to the device without battery, it doesn't work either.
 

Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2017, 09:39:15 am »
I have a problem with my Flir too. Is your problem similar with my: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-one-gen2-failure-investigation-by-fraser/msg1172399/#msg1172399?

It happens that the battery goes into protection and shows 0 volts and is not charging in a regular way. You can "Wake up" the battery by fed to it from 3.7 to 4.2 volts (for example, from the battery 18650, connecting + to + and - to - for a few seconds). After that battery have to show normal voltage.

There is an simpler way, if the voltage is 0: when the battery is connected, connect the USB charging, hold the power button until the orange diode goes out and hold it for about 30 seconds after diod is extinguished, because during this hold, the battery begins to charge.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 09:46:01 am by McDoS »
 

Offline marlendive

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2017, 02:36:06 pm »
I measured the voltage and it is 3.7 V
 

Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2017, 09:19:43 am »
I measured the voltage and it is 3.7 V

It looks like you have the same problem as me, but I can not find a solution for almost a month. :( "Flir support" also can not give me more powerful technical support.
My Flir is recognized by PC as a "Flir COM port", it seems that i can flash firmware, but no answer from "Flir Support", how to do it.
 

Offline marlendive

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2017, 11:26:34 am »
Good grief! So it should be a firmware problem?
 

Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2017, 11:54:56 am »
I think that this is the firmware, as I checked all main chips, output and input voltages and found no deviations from the declared in their technical documentation (datasheets).
I have no other solutions so far. (
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2017, 06:47:08 pm »
I concur that there appears to be a firmware vulnerability that leads to the described behaviour. Sadly, unlike the E4, I have not seen new firmware versions that may be loaded into the F1G2. I would have expected the FLIR One APP to offer firmware upgrade as an option. It may even be automatic.

Fraser
 

Offline MattSR

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2017, 10:27:24 pm »
The FLIR One app does offer firmware upgrade... its in the settings menu.
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2017, 05:24:04 am »
Unfortunately, not one phone can see my Flir, since it does not go into power-on mode (green led does not light up)
 

Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2017, 10:21:11 am »
Fraser, you have a lot of FlirOne devices. Can you do one experiment for me with one of your correctly working device? I'm very interested to know some one: if disconnect all modules from PCB does it starts to charge if connect USB charger (battery must be connected). Does the green led near USB lights up?
 

Offline marlendive

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2017, 02:45:36 pm »
Yesterday a strange thing happened: I was trying to connect my F1G2 to the PC using a USB-microUSB adapter.
Nothing happened, but suddenly the small green light near the USB charging plug started flashing.
The orange led became green, too.
I tried to connect it to the smartphone and it was recognized by the Flir App, I checked in the setting menu and the firmware resulted up to date.
After few seconds, the led turned into orange again and it was not possible to use the camera, just pushing the power button, the green light turns on again, but it lasts very few seconds.
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2017, 10:08:03 pm »
@McDoS

I do not have any FLIR One units disassembled at the moment and I am currently dealing with the death of a loved one so not doing any work on cameras for a while. Sorry.

Regards

Fraser
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2017, 04:18:22 am »
Sorry to hear, Fraser. Condolences.
I TEA.
 

Offline McDoS

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2017, 10:49:49 am »
So sad... Condolences.
 

Offline fusebit

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation by Fraser
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2017, 04:30:14 pm »
That isn't a general solution  :-[  :'(

OK, Patient resuscitated and healthy  :)

The LiPo cell was charged and refitted in the camera. The camera only illuminated the Orange power button LED and could not be shut down.
The camera appeared to be in a permanent 'on' state but not booting. This would explain the fact that when connected to the USB charger the power LED lit ORANGE and stayed on.

In order to reset the camera to its correct stand-by state and normal operation I carried out the following reset routine after some experimentation

1. Disconnect the LiPo cell from the PCB
2. Connect the USB charging cable. The Orange Power button LED will light
3. Press and hold the Power button until the Power button LED extinguishes - forced shut-down (If you release the button it will go back to solid Orange again. i.e. no change in state)
4. Whilst still holding the Power button in, disconnect the USB charging lead, then release the Power button
5. Reconnect the LiPo battery. The Power LED will light Orange.
6. Press the Power button. The Power LED will start to flash green and the camera will boot normally
7. Press the Power button to switch off the camera
8. Push the Power button and the camera will boot normally.

The camera is now working normally. It appears that these cameras have somewhat flaky firmware that can get locked into a permanent semi-standby state that will flatten the battery completely (to the cameras 3.0V cut-off point). The only way to recover the firmware to a state that works is to carry out the a full system reset as detailed above. This erased the registers and sets the camera to its factory default conditions. From that point onwards it can boot normally.

I seem to recall that FLIR provided some similar instructions to factory Reset the old FLIR ONE Gen1 for iOS. They told people to let the battery go completely flat before a power on reset sequence. I forget the details but my experimentation came up with an equivalent for the F1G2.

Hope this helps others.

Fraser

I do have a FLIR one G2 for about 14 month now and it worked properly all the time until today.
I switched it on and the LED stayed orange, no chance to switch it off or charge or connect it to the phone. Some search and I discovered this thread and gave it a try, but it doesn't work. The camera stays in the hooked-up orange mode (I charged the battery externally, it was at 3,74V before). Too bad, stupid me also damaged the battery plug. But after 14 month the gurantee is gone anyhow...

 

Offline fusebit

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2017, 05:15:17 pm »
 >:( I do have a large set of good Wiha Torx, but not the f... TR-type  >:(
Hopefully I'll be able to get one tomorrow to check the Sensor seating.
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2017, 05:53:51 pm »
Fusebit,

Under European retail law, an item must be fit for purpose and is normally liable to a 2 year period of OEM support responsibility. i.e, it it fails within 2 years they should help you.

If you still have your receipt, please contact FLIR customer services and explain the situation. You may be pleasantly surprised !

Kind Regards

Fraser
 

Offline fusebit

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2017, 06:53:42 pm »
Hi Fraser,

your absolutely right, but this isn't valid anymore, because I opened the device. So it's my fault...
Now it's open, so I could also do the sensor socket check.

Maybe I'll check anyhow how much a repair would cost.
The camera is a great gadget and I want it in operation again.

Kind regards
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2017, 07:24:19 pm »
Yes you opened the case, but it had already failed. FLIR do not actually repair these units. I suggest you still ask about a replacement unit and say nothing about the internal inspection. IMHO this is still morally OK as you did not cause the fault.

I trust you have not mangled the casing too obviously ?

Fraser
 

Online Vipitis

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2017, 08:11:30 pm »
I have some very nice mini Germanium optical blocks to play with :)


you mentioned this in the beginning - can you show me exactly what those blocks are and how they work?

I am really really interested in micro optics for building a small telescope(just 3x or 5x for the beginning) for the lepton inside my CAT S60 phone.

I will read the experiments by Thomas123 now, but the Flir One gen2 has the same lepton sensor as far as I know.

and it is a FoV of like 51 and 3... so I really need to narrow it for any kind of magnification.

Jan
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2017, 10:11:23 pm »
Not really for this thread as off topic but I can summarise......

Optical blocks are the complete lens element set that sits in front of the microbolometer. These can comprise a Doublet, three or more lens elements depending upon design. My lens blocks have come from various thermal cameras and have different fields of view. The diameter of the lens blocks varies depending upon the size of the sensor they were used with. None of the lens blocks I have are telephoto types.

What I do have are several auxiliary lens assemblies that sit in front of a cameras objective lens to provide a wider or nattower field of view and magnification. The two magnifications I have are X2 and X3. The X2 is a FLIR product and the X3 comes from Inframetrics. These are called Telescopes in thermal imaging circles.

Foe Astro photography applications I would recommend modifying a reflector telescope as they are relatively inexpensive. You need one with a decent surface reflective mirror. You need to modify the eyepiece prism and fit a 45 Degree surface reflective flat mirror to direct the image towards the cameras objective. It will take some experimentation to get right.

The resolution of the camera is quite important for Astrophotography and in this respect the affordable thermal cameras are relatively low resolution. This limits the targets that may be imaged somewhat.

The FLIR ONE Gen 2 uses a LEPTON 3 with 160 x 120 pixels in its microbolometer. Your S60 camera has a quarter of the pixels at 80 x 60 pixels.
I would recommend a decent 320 x 240 pixel low noise thermal camera for astrophotography, but the cost of such is not insignificant. Try your low resolution camera with a used reflector telescope and see how much can be achieved with that. Any refractor type telescope designs need thermal wavelength transmissive lenses (not BK Glass!) and will be very expensive to make or buy built.

The Thermal Expert appears an excellent camera for Astophotography when coupled to a suitable reflector or refractor telescope.

Making your own refractor telescope for the thermal domain is not trivial.

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 10:24:32 pm by Fraser »
 
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Online Vipitis

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2017, 09:40:58 am »
Thanks, your knowledge really helped me out.

I don't really plan on buying a camera. But the reflector telescope  seems to be a good option, as it can easily be used for thermal and visual observation of the sky.

Regrading auxiliary telescopic lenses, I saw this example https://youtu.be/pc7ZwEyY5rA

Boris claims to build the scopes on his own.


For a reflector telescope there are different designs. The Newtonian with an eyepiece to the side and a angled secondary mirror.

Or the Gregorian/Cassegrian way with having a big hole in the primary mirror.

For thermal use the biggest problem will be the eyepiece/ focusser as those aren't build out of LWIR transparent material, and even a small lens can get really expensive.

My current goal is to find some items arround me just to see if the effect works.

I tried different reflective rounded objects like transgender can lids, spoons, plates, bowls, follower pots.

I will try to visit a local store which has some real telescopes and ask them about testing it thermally by removing the eyepiece.

Thanks again,

Jan
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #63 on: April 29, 2017, 11:59:50 am »
Jan,

Boris is a clever chap who has built useable telescopes. In some of his designs he had to purchase suitable lens elements that were expensive via retail sources. You should expect to pay around $200 to $400 for the two or three required lens elements. The telescope is often Keplerian so inverting unless a third Erector lens is fitted. A two lens element Galilean non inverting telescope can be built but this requires a bi-convex Objective and a bi-concave output lens of matched specifications. The Galilean has some limitations as you can read about on the refracting telescope Wiki pages.

It is easy to build a telescope, either visible light or LWIR, but LWIR presents the not insignificant challenge of obtaining suitable FL and diameter lens events that work in the LW spectrum. Germanium is an obvious choice but even used lens events can be expensive. A cheaper alternative is ZnSe but sadly the cheap Chinese ZnSe lenses are limited to diameters below 20mm with FL's of 25mm, 50mm, 63mm and 100mm.

To adapt the LEPTON cameras lens to the telescope you would remove all visible light lenses from the image path and use some cheap ZnSe lens elements to match the telescope to the camera. You could use a suitable FL ZnSe lens as a close up lens viewing the Telescopes second mirror.

I regret I am not an optical expert so cannot offer exact instruction on how to achieve such a conversion.

If you want to see what ZnSe lenses are available, just search for ZnSE or ZnSe CO2 on eBay and you will find many ranging from around $10 upwards.
The lenses are made for the CO2 laser engraver and cutter market, hence the limited range of sizes and FL's.

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 12:11:31 pm by Fraser »
 

Online Vipitis

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #64 on: April 29, 2017, 02:11:14 pm »
a bunch of helpful information!

I think the best option is to buy a reflective newtonian telescope and replace the eyepiece with either one of thesehttps://www.edmundoptics.de/microscopy/infinity-corrected-objectives/zinc-selenide-infrared-ir-focusing-objectives/ - or a cheaper alternative. If not the full focus eyepiece, I can try to measure the stock lens in the eyepiece and look for a cheap ZnSe or Germanium replacement.

It is a crazy project I though about only a few days ago, but I invested a lot of time into research and I would be really disappointed if I don't have any results.

Lots of thanks once again,
Jan
 

Offline Santiago

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2017, 05:05:31 pm »
Fraser, as I understood from all the posts around here only you can help me.
I got my FLIR One from a UK ebay seller as Brand New Open Box. And received it Open Box without any accessory inside.
Moreover it doesn't work with any Android smartphone or tablet. I've tried Galaxy S4, S6, S7, Motorola G4 and some more. No result.
All the LEDs light and blink in the right way but no connection happens. No infrared image appears on the screen.
Does it mean USB connector is damaged?
What can you recommend in my situation?
Here is what the FLIR suppord answered.

Thank you for contacting us. We have received your email in regards your FLIR ONE. For this issue we do recommend you to perform the following troubleshoot steps:
•Perform a hard reset on the FLIR ONE while connected to the charger by holding the power button down for 30 seconds.
•Try to reinstall the app.
•Let the battery drain overnight and try charging it again (with another charger if possible).
•Test it with different compatible devices.
•Try to use different USB cords or different Power outlets.

Anyway nothing of this has helped.

Among those faulty devices you fixed up was one with the same issue?
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2017, 10:35:52 am »
I have an iOS F1G2 that appears to boot correctly but will not connect to a host. I regret I have not investigated this fault yet so cannot offer a solution at the moment. I personally would start with disconnection of the battery to force a full cold start rather than a reset. Whilst the camera is open yo can remove the PCB and inspect it for solder splashes on the USB connections or other issues.

Sadly the PCB is secured using tamper resistant miniature Torx head screws. I have yet to find a hollow torx driver that small so I use a flat blade jewelers screwdriver and a lot of care !

Fraser
 
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Offline Santiago

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #67 on: May 22, 2017, 12:50:50 pm »
Thanks for the detailed answer!
I have tried to do both hard reset and battery disconnection. And then hard reset after your algorithm. Nothing has helped.
I can remove the PCB (3 screws) - happily I have the suitable screwdriver, but the 2 screws that hold the USB connector seem to be of different size. My screwdriver doesn't fit it.
What can I use to remove this 2 screws? Can you offer the photo of your screwdriver?
Besides I have a question about your way of hard reset: when I remove the battery and connect the USB power cable the small green LED near the male USB connector blinks 3 times and then pause for a couple of seconds and this cycle continues. Is it normal?
 

Offline ulltrium

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2017, 01:45:49 pm »
Hi guys,
Let me share my experience with FlirOne. I read your messages and decided to test my luck so I purchased a faulty FlirOne 2nd gen for Android from ebay. I received it yesterday in its original box with all the accessories, it looks like new. I plugged it in to see if it charges and the power button LED turned orange, a very low current was sucked from the usb port, around 20mA.
I let it plugged in over night and in the morning I found it blinking green (charging). On the ampermeter and the current increased to around 40mA. After couple of hours still charging, very slowly at 40mA) so I decided to give it a try, I connected the phone, started the application and bingo - I got the image.
I know it's premature to conclude but I believe that in my case the battery was completely discharged (if not faulty, I'll see about that in the next couple of days). Right now it is still plugged into an usb port, blinking green and slowly charging at 40mA (I'm hoping the charging circuitry is smart enough and detected the battery was completely discharged and carefully charging it back at a very low current). I'll come back in a couple of days and let you know how it works, after I conclude if the battery is still usable.
Regards,
Ulltrium.
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2017, 03:07:04 pm »
With the 'completely discharged' battery symptom, I am suspicious that the FLIR ONE G2 power management can sometimes malfunction and flatten the battery even when "off". That is the problem with soft power control. The unit is never completely off and sits in various hibernate, sleep and run modes, just like modern laptops, tablets and phones. If it does not enter hibernate when it should, it discharges the battery. Thee is also the possibility of faulty LiPo batteries with high self discharge or low capacity. The FLIR ONE G2 seems to have problems when presented with a completely discharged battery. They sometimes will not restart unless the battery is charged externally and then refitted in the camera.

There certainly seem to be issues with the FLIR ONE G2 battery circuit.

Fraser
 

Offline ulltrium

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2017, 07:20:02 am »
I agree, the issue seems to be related to the battery circuit. Yesterday my camera worked well for a couple of minutes then turned off. I opened it and extracted the battery with the intention to charge it externally and put it back inside. I immediately noticed that the battery connector is not good, if I touch the battery wires the orange led turns of and on randomly, it is obvious that the contact is poor. However, I removed the battery and charged it with an external charger, it was not completely discharged as I thought (I measured 3.5V) so my LiPo charger accepted it and did its job.
Then I connected back the battery inside the camera but unfortunately it doesn't work, I got again the orange light. No reset works, nothing, I'm stuck in this mode. It is very frustrating.
 

Offline dundee

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2017, 09:34:59 pm »
Hi Guys!
I also bought a faulty Flir One 2nd Edition for IOS.

At first i tried to charge the battery by USB. Nothing happend, no current flows.
Next I disconnected the battery and checked the voltage: 0V.

I've charged the battery now with my external charger. Connected back nothing happens (even LED's).

Next i decided to connect my Power Supply to the Camera's battery connector. There's a current of 38mA.
If i press the power button for 10-15 Seconds the current goes to 0. No LED lights...

Any ideas where to start? Battery circuit?



 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #72 on: October 20, 2017, 02:07:14 pm »

Much Googling and lots of hits about this "reset" method but not a lot other than  that to help solve the orange LED problem.

Gave up Googling and just thought it is probably better to just get in there with oscilloscope, microscope, probes etc etc.

Under the microscope the BGA soldering is kind of similar to a pile of camel dung and a good dose of freezer under the micro then the camera started functioning correctly for five minutes or so. Squirted a load of flux under there and gave it some with the rework station and the camera is fixed, at least for now. Charging LED works, green flashing LED under the switch and can turn it on and off with the button.

Maybe this will help the next guy that has one of these things. I don't think I will have this for long. I think the build quality is crap compared to the Seek and as the seek has a focusing lens it is much better for fault finding on PCBs. Still, one has to try these things in order to draw those conclusions.
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2017, 04:04:40 pm »
Thanks for your findings. I have one stubborn FLIR One G2 that has not come back to life with a reset. I shall try rework on the BGA chips to see what happens. Nothing to lose as that camera was kept only for its Lepton core.

The failure rate on these cameras is of concern. I have never seen such in FLIR products before. A case of building down to a price and using the cheapest Chinese tender for the build maybe ? Such could lead people to believe that FLIR produce unreliable products in general.

Do look at the Therm App and Thermal Expert offerings before buying a SEEK product though.

Fraser
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2017, 08:49:39 pm »

I already have a Seek so could compare directly, it is why I bought the flir one and I much prefer the Seek. I have sort of looked at other third party things for the Seek but I don't use Windo$e on anything, that meant there isn't a lot to see really. When time permits I will probably look at getting it working with Linux but as the primary use is for spotting hot stuff on PCBs I don't think anything will be better than the smart phone / tablet.
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #75 on: October 24, 2017, 02:52:03 pm »
Hi Fraser,
I have an F1 2G camera that worked well last week, but I may have left it on so now when plugged into charger shows orange steady light o the power button and not charging - so I assume I drained its battery. I would like to unplug the battery to get it to reset - would you please advise how to get the camera open? Also, is there another way to reset the camera without opening it?
Thank you!
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #76 on: October 24, 2017, 02:56:24 pm »

If the battery is completely flat it is already reset. Plug the charger in and hold the power button down for a full 2 minutes. That will force charge the battery for a short time after which it will probably behave normally.
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2017, 03:00:19 pm »
Before opening the camera, connect the charger and keep the power button pressed for a while. I use an elastic band holding a small nylon nut against the power button. According to FLIR, this enables trickle charging of the battery to a point where the battery is again recognised by the charge management IC.
Try 15 minutes first and see if it works. If not, try 30 minutes etc.

The rear of the cameras case is field in p,ace by double sided tape located at several points around its edge lip. I use a thin sharp modelling knife to ease the rear panel off of the camera. I have also used a razor blade along the straight edge and just pressed it into the gap befor levering the rear panel up and out of the camera case. Take care not to damage the case edges in the process.

Fraser
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2017, 06:56:45 pm »
Thank you Fraser and Mjolinor for your advice! I have force-recharged the battery to the point where the orange light stays on all the time, but the camera still won't work with the phone, and it would not charge either. Is there anything else I can do? Would you be willing to take a shot at fixing it?

 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #79 on: October 24, 2017, 07:16:48 pm »

Force charging (power button held in) puts about 300 ma into the battery but it will drop as the battery charge approaches full. It will not damage the battery. I have used a G clamp to hold the button in for hours.

If that doesn't work then you will have to take it apart.
 

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2017, 07:47:02 pm »
Now, when I unplug the charging cable, the orange light stays on - so I guess the battery is charged, but the camera still won't work. Is there anything else I can try?
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2017, 08:20:37 pm »

Just take the back off and disconnect the battery.
 

Offline Dracula

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2017, 12:19:18 am »
Thank you guys for your help! Alas, the reboot procedure did not work as the power button stays orange after battery reconnect, would not go off or green. What a piece of junk. I needed a good IR camera to check on a window replacement job, so ordered a $400 FLIR One Pro unit from Home Depot. Will do the job then return it within three months. I know this is not very nice, but FLIR should have built good G2 cameras in the first place.
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2017, 06:47:35 am »

They are pretty badly made and sticking a battery in there was a mistake given that they will tend not to be used every day.

The Lepton module is a cracking thing and they go and ruin it with the worlds worst, cheapest PCB that monkeys or aardvarks have soldered.
 

Offline Bill W

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2017, 12:39:24 pm »

They are pretty badly made and sticking a battery in there was a mistake given that they will tend not to be used every day.

The Lepton module is a cracking thing and they go and ruin it with the worlds worst, cheapest PCB that monkeys or aardvarks have soldered.

Unfair on aardvarks.
 :-DD

Bill

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2017, 12:46:07 pm »
Yes sadly the F1G2 does seem to have been a model prone to failure. It, like some other FLIR models, is manufactured by a third party in China. FLIR just provide the core etc. I have to wonder whether the new F1G3 is manufactured by a different Chinese factory with a more reliable build ? Let us hope so.

Another example of building down to a price and quality suffering maybe ?

Fraser
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2017, 08:36:09 pm »

They are pretty badly made and sticking a battery in there was a mistake given that they will tend not to be used every day.

I also found that odd, given the typical use case. I can understand not wanting to drain the phone's battery, but it's yet another battery to maintain. Tedious.
I TEA.
 

Offline misterno

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #87 on: October 26, 2017, 12:39:39 pm »
Dear friends, hi from Greece,

I do buy a faulty as they told me device just to experiment. I do have an android samsung galaxy A5 2016 version with 6.01 android version.
The person who sells me the device told me that sometimes this device was working.
I put the charger in the port and charging the battery. When it shows me green light, i disconnect it from the usb charging port.
Installation of flir one apk was successful and then connect the device to my phone as app asking for.
I pushed the power button and after orange red light, the green light starts flashing.
No matter what i tried the device wasn't working. Is it any test i can do just to ensure that the device is in working state?
Do i need a different mobile phone than Samsung A5 i have?
TIA
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #88 on: October 26, 2017, 12:57:45 pm »

Flashing green is the normal operating indication so I would suspect that the USB connector inside is not good and it is not connecting to the phone.
 

Offline misterno

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #89 on: October 26, 2017, 04:14:19 pm »
The news is that i made a DIY micro USB cable to USB and when i plugged and powered the device, the green ligh flash and the device manager founds a new device and show yellow exclamation mark.
I 'm not sure what can i do next. Any help?
TIA
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #90 on: October 26, 2017, 04:17:21 pm »

Same prognosis (<< probably a Greek word?), I guess one of the data lines is broken inside the camera.
 

Offline uboot

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #91 on: December 23, 2017, 02:40:58 pm »
What if there is no LED lit at all?

Just got myself a defective Flir One G2 for Android. Battery was depleted to 3.21V, no LED would light up uppon pressing power button or connecting USB charger.

I was able to charge the battery by keeping power button pressed for an hour with charger connected - it started at 900mA and slowly dropped to 7mA when I disconnected it. Sucked a total of 275mAh. Battery voltage now is at 4.04V. Just be sure to press the power button _before_ inserting the charging cable.

EDIT: squeezed in another 25mAh with external Lipo charger. Battery voltage is now at 4.22V

But still no light.  :horse:

Tried Fraser's reset method: No success.

Any ideas from you guys?

Don't have the proper torx screw drivers yet to further disassemble the unit but that's what I'm heading for next.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 05:32:06 pm by uboot »
 

Offline Kalber

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2017, 03:02:34 pm »
Well, i have exactly the same problem with mine.
Bought a defective one g2. There is no light blinking, neither in the power button nor the charging port. I loaded the Batterie up to 3.5 volts externally, tried the reset procedure, but still nothing happening.
The only thing the FlirOne does, is charging with around 4 volts after pressing the power button for (around) 10seconds.
I also loosened the 5 torx screws, but found nothing special/defective on the circuit board.
So if you or someone other have the solution for this problem, i would be very grateful to hear from it.
Thanks
 

Offline uboot

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #93 on: January 02, 2018, 11:50:47 am »
As from another thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/question-about-flir-one-for-android/), some of the BGA chips might need reflow/rework - probably the flash/ram IC - but this is something I didn't dare as I was able to return the device to the seller and get a refund. I will now either buy a new Flir G2 or a Seek Thermal Compact if the seller I found doesn't manage to obtain and ship the Flir G2 still listed as available in his shop.

But there is maybe another option for you: get a Lepton breakout board from Digikey and wire it to a Raspberry Pi:

https://damow.net/building-a-thermal-camera/
https://www.digikey.co.uk/catalog/en/partgroup/lepton-breakout-board/55730
 

Offline careyer

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #94 on: January 01, 2019, 09:21:23 am »
FLIR One Pro (3.Gen) also having Battery Issues?

Hi all! Some time ago FLIR replaced my broken FLIR Gen.2 which self drained its battery like crazy under warranty and replaced it with a Gen.3 Pro. I have tested it for a while now and the new series seems to have the same problem again. Charged up to 100% it is down to 5% after sitting for exactly 2 month on the shelf. (i.e. self discharge of 95% in 60 days).

Can this be considered normal? Can anyone else with a Gen.3 confirm this?
What if I don't use the cam for lets say half a year? Will it deep discharge and ruin itself?

Cheers and everybody a Happy New Year!


 

Online Vipitis

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #95 on: January 01, 2019, 01:12:43 pm »
Is it exposed to temperature change during it storin?
 

Offline careyer

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #96 on: January 01, 2019, 04:06:38 pm »
No, always same temperature : 21 degree celsius ( living room)


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
 

Offline mattGray

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #97 on: February 03, 2019, 11:42:45 am »
Hi All,

I have a F1 2G iOS device that has been working fine for 18 months but now can't be recognised on any of my devices.  It seems to boot and charge fine.  I have tried Frasers reset trick any ideas?
 

Offline schmiernippel

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #98 on: August 01, 2019, 08:01:42 pm »
I have connected the vcc and ground from the usb port(phone connection) direct to the battery connector.I have completly removed the lipo battery.Works great on my lg g6 phone !
 

Offline autroguy

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2019, 04:24:34 pm »
Can you please show the connections on the USB?

Thanks.
 

Offline schmiernippel

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #100 on: August 21, 2019, 11:45:53 am »
At the moment i have borrowed the cam a friend so i can not make a photo. But just google "micro usb pinout". When you have soldered the wires on the usb, double check the polarity !
 

Offline exciter

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #101 on: September 22, 2019, 11:49:41 pm »
Hi,
buyed a dead F1G2 on eBay.
Had to reflow the NAND to have the orange LED starting working for now...
previous owner broke the black 4Pin Socket on the mainboard. This socket is used for 4Pin mobile phone connector.
I measured 1mm pitch but I don’t know it’s height since it’s gone.
Can someone please measure out?
Regards
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 11:51:43 pm by exciter »
 

Offline exciter

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2019, 07:02:28 pm »
Hard reset didn’t change anything. Got only the orange light, no charging led...
So I removed the AT91SAM, reballed the Chip and soldered it back.
Now the device is working as it should. You could clearly see that some solder balls didn’t made contact to the BGA because some contacts didn’t shine after removing. So after Nand (0.35mm) and CPU (0.5mm)  reball the device is fine.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 02:35:37 am by exciter »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #103 on: September 30, 2019, 07:33:10 pm »
Exciter,

Excellent post  :-+

I have had FLIR ONE G2 unit’s that also do not respond to a hard reset. I basically put them in storage until such time as I either felt motivated to investigate further, or harvested the Lepton core from them for other projects. I never did feel motivated to delve deeper into the F1G2 issues as I fell out of love with the design!
At one point I had around a dozen dead F1G2 units piled up awaiting my attention. That is when I knew the product has ‘issues’. No other thermal camera I had come across was so prone to failure or power related issues. I wonder if the F1G3 is more reliable ? I decline to work on any of these FLIR One unit’s now as they are not worth my time.

It is very interesting to read that there is a BGA ball flow issue as that helps to explain why there seemed to be whole batches of dud F1G2 units hitting the market. There was clearly a production line issue that was not detected. Some units suffer from battery or power management chip issues but this latest comment from you suggests that the F1G2 may also suffer from extensive BGA production defects.

Please will you detail the equipment you used to rework the small BGA components. I have hot air and IR BGA Rework stations. I bought the IR BGA Rework station to experiment with repairing laptop motherboards, specifically the North and South Bridge chips. Those are huge compared to the BGA components in the F1G2 ! On the hot air front I have both conventional sized hand pieces with various nozzles and various hot air pencils for fine SMT work.

Fraser
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 07:38:13 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline Uho

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2019, 06:52:33 am »
I watched two broken F1G3 from one batch. Symptoms of failure are the same with F1G2. They work after the controller warms up with a hairdryer.
 

Offline exciter

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #105 on: October 03, 2019, 07:11:34 am »
Hi,
I use a Weller WSP80 soldering station and a aoyue int 968 hot air (waiting for a BST-863).
Additionally I have got a old PACE station with vacuum pump and desoldering iron.
For SMD work I use a old Zeiss stereo microscope with an old lamp stand.
I attached some pics.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 08:41:52 am by exciter »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #106 on: October 03, 2019, 11:25:04 am »
Exciter,

Many thanks  :-+

Nice bench setup in your loft ..... I need to de clutter my work area as I find myself working on the dining room table at the moment ! My wife is none too impressed !

I love that you included the term “old” in your equipment details ...... I am of the view that “Old” is fine if it gets the job done  :-+ “Old”, originally expensive, can often be better than “New”, cheap  ;D

Well done on the repair  :-+

Fraser
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 11:27:24 am by Fraser »
 

Offline jldesigns.eu

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #107 on: November 15, 2019, 11:07:08 am »
Hello Guys.

I've also bought a broken Flir one gen 2 (first one attached to the phone). After reading the post about resetting the module I thought it will be a straight forward but not exacly...

The symptom were in my case:
- orange LED always on (red and green bought lighten up)
- after holding the button for about 10s the orange light is going down, but after releasing the button it light buck up
- i saw a green light briefly go down for a split of the second after connecting the battery
- charg led is not lighting and the battery was not charged
- cam was not detectable by the phone

I've charged the battery externally. The reset procedure didn't work for me.

After reading the post bout reballing I've decide to give a shot to reheat the chips, so I've poured some flux on flash and man CPU, and reheated them with hotair. Of course I know it would not be permanent, but I deducted that the units were testes in factory, so a cold joints are pretty probable (especially since my unit was factory new condition) , and reheating could work, and it did work to some degree...

Now the camera is more alive:
- after pressing button the light goes orange, and then green is flashing (around 1s period)
- the camera is detectable by the phone, It reads the battery percentage, but no image from any camera
- the charging light is still not lighting
- if i turn it on (the green light flashes) and not connect it to the phone it truns off after some time.

Questions:
1. What would You recommend to do next?
2. Green flash meaning its booting, it should be solid after it boots properly?
3. Is there a serial UART somewhere on the board like in the case of Flir One Case (for iphone 5) like Mike showed in his video?
4. When raballing can You confirm is it a CPU and not Flash? Resitting both is 2x more risky. I've never did any reballing... Watch a ton of YT videos... but still not confident :) Is it easier when reball the chip with bought balls (not stencil)?
5. Maybe somebody have a tested working open hardware project for breakout board for Lepton, possibly if it straight forward to use/test it?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

===============EDIT===================

I've also verified that the battery is charging now - it draws around 500ma, but the charge led is off. I don't see any move on the shutter at any point.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 11:39:40 am by jldesigns.eu »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #108 on: November 15, 2019, 11:58:41 am »
From what I have read, removing the CPU, Flash and power management chips is the best option as it would appear that there was a real quality control issue with the soldering of these components at the factory. It could be  caused by many factors such as contamination of pads, incorrect reflow profile or flux issues.

Re-balling such small components is not for the faint hearted. I personally use solder balls but others have success with stencils and solder paste so both techniques work. The solder paste is heated on the chip to create solder balls so the result is similar. More flux will be needed when attaching to the PCB of course.

I suspect if you remove the BGA chips you will find issues evident on the PCB pads, as others have discovered. The PCB pads should be cleaned of all residual lead free solder, re-tinned with leaded solder (I use LMP with silver) then cleaned again to create nice receptive pads for the leaded solder on the BGA chip. This is not a quick process, especially if new to doing BGA work (like me!) so it makes no commercial sense to undertake the repair. For you it is different and you stand a good chance of reviving the unit provided the solder balls do not merge under the BGA.

I understand that controlled hot air (not a paint stripping stripping gun) is adequate for these small chips. I just bought a Jovy IR BGA Rework station and will be testing it on some BGA tasks that I have waiting for it’s arrival. I may try it on the FLIR One G2 as I have some awaiting my attention. The Jovy may be a sledgehammer to crack a nut however !

Most Lepton breakout/dev boards that contain a processor are over priced in my humble opinion. The ‘dumb’ version is affordable but not as useful. I have yet to find a reasonably priced intelligent dev board for the Lepton 3.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 12:02:19 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline jldesigns.eu

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2019, 07:30:56 am »
Thanks Fraser.

I'm confident with smd till 0402, don't have an microscope, and only simplest and cheapest hot air station.

I'm gone give it a try, but have a question to exciter.
1. How to remove this uderfill? Heat + rubbing?
2. Should I do both chips at once or just CPU?
3. I don't have a preheater, would you recommend to get it or for this small PCB hot air is fine?
4. Any other advice?
 

Offline exciter

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #110 on: November 21, 2019, 10:59:11 am »
Hi,

As far as I can remember there is no complete cpu underfill.
There is just the resin holding the chip in place. I removed it with a thin solder tip.
There might be a little bit of resin under the chip, but I had no problem removing the chip.
I also used a preheater but I was also able to remove the chip only with my hot-air station.
I started with the nand, but the fault was because of broken cpu  solder joints.
Would try to reflow the nand first. If the fault persists I would reball the CPU.
You need to remove the old solder from the board an chip as goof as you can. Clean the PCB and chip with MEK or alcohol. Use leaded solder balls for reballing because of the lower melting point.
Be sure all solder is melted before you remove the chip ( watch nearby components for melted solder, push chip from the side and look out for movement(may not work because of the resin)).
You will avoid ripped pads if you are carefully. Move the nozzle evenly...
 

Offline ftonello

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #111 on: January 21, 2020, 06:46:35 pm »
Anyone interested in a Flir One Gen2 that i f***-up trying to reball?
Or Should i send it to Dave, so he can do a video about it.
 ;)



« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 06:50:57 pm by ftonello »
Hi from Brazil!!!
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #112 on: January 21, 2020, 07:21:28 pm »
I would be interested in it please :)

Fraser
UK
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 07:27:13 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline All Seeing Eye

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #113 on: January 22, 2020, 03:59:19 pm »
FLIRONE's battery design is very stupid, and it goes wrong again and again.
 

Offline ftonello

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #114 on: January 22, 2020, 06:26:01 pm »
This is disturbing, because a plan to buy another one...Flir One is a pocket tool in my area...
Hi from Brazil!!!
 

Offline Robster69

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #115 on: June 20, 2020, 12:27:17 pm »
Fraser
Please can you let me know what hot air heat temp you used for removing the cpu and nand chips?
I have a preheater to help with the removal...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 12:29:05 pm by Robster69 »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser
« Reply #116 on: June 20, 2020, 12:41:45 pm »
Every brand rework station will behave slightly differently due to air flow, distance from chip etc. I strongly suggest you practice on some scrap boards before attempting rework on a F1G2 PCB.

I now use A Jovy 7500 Infrared rework station with proper heat profiling. Hot air was OK but for delicate work I prefer IR.

Working on the F1G2 is not for the faint hearted and there is significant risk of killing it good and proper !

Fraser
 
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