Fraser has two new patients inbound - E2V ARGUS 4 & Seek Reveal Pro FF

[Fraser]

So when I return to the Seek Reveal Pro repair what will my next moves be ? Will I dive in with an oscilloscope hunting for noise coming out of Boost / Buck converters Or something else ?

Well it will be something else. I obtain valuable experience and knowledge when working on equipment that I repair. I make the most of the experience if it is a job for myself. I will reverse engineer the Seek Reveal Pro design topology and gather data sheets for all major components. I will then create a basic reverse engineered system diagram showing key components and points of interest. This document will help me when working on other cameras of the same model, if I should ever need to work on one.

Diving in with an oscilloscope would possibly track down the supply rail noise issue but this is offset by the lack of knowledge extracted from the repair and can also be inefficient if some form of reverse engineering node plot has not been undertaken to identify useful test points and connectivity.

That is why I will not be diving into the Seek Reveal Pro today. I will take my time working on it as the knowledge gained is often worth more to me than the price paid for the equipment. Remember, I already own a Reveal Pro and a Reveal Pro FF so this patient is “just for fun and learning” 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Before anyone asks.....

With regret I do not share reverse engineered schematics for any thermal imaging cameras. It is legally too complicated on many levels. I detail my approach to this repair only as guidance to others who wish to follow the same path.

And remember .... these highly integrated ‘system on a chip’ based units are as much firmware as they are hardware. Schematics can only help to a certain point when firmware issues are involved.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Some pictures of the Seek Reveal Pro fault. I will also download better images saved on the camera.

[Fraser]

The pictures as saved on the camera.

The temperature measurement is hilariously wrong but this appears to be related to the noise signal presence.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Some saved pictures in the landscape orientation showing the dynamic nature of the noise bars

The camera is looking at the ceiling as a low Delta T target.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Regarding the pentagonal security screws that used to be fitted to the seek Reveal series. I am pleased to advise that all three of my Seek Reveal units are fitted with standard T9, 6 point, Torx socket head screws    Seek obviously changed their mind about the use of such security screws.

Fraser

[Fraser]

I just checked the Seek Thermal Datasheet for the J3 sensor board that hosts the microbolometer. It’s only I/O is SPi and 8 bit parallel data. All analogue processing takes place on this J3 PCB so its power supply will be carefully scrutinised. The 0V rails will also be checked for performance.

Fraser

[Bill W]

Step one: shake the camera and see how many capacitors fall out.         


Bill

[Fraser]

 

I know exactly what you mean  Sadly no rattles in this case I might find an unpopulated capacitor pad though  It will be interesting to see what is going on with the unit. I still think it is the best of the bunch listed as some of those others are a real gamble.

Regarding components floating around in a faulty unit..... I had some units (not cameras) that all failed to start and all rattled. Upon investigation the rattle was an SMD inductor in every unit. A production defect caused a power rail short that overheated the inductor that was in series with that power rail and desoldered itself. Power was then cut and the unit became one of a whole bunch of dead customer returns. It proved the units had never been power tested at the factory, despite the ‘QC’ labels. An easy repair though.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Well the auctions for the faulty Seek Reveal cameras have completed. It would appear that I got myself quite a bargain if the end prices of those auctions are anything to go by ! Wow!

Did anyone here succeed in winning one ?

Fraser

[Fraser]

Just checked the Seek Reveal Sellers feedback from buyers. Not a single feedback for the Seek Reveal cameras (Except mine) since they sold 10 days ago. That strikes me as a little unusual unless all were bought by one person and they have yet to receive them/leave feedback. Sadly the seller has no more listings for Seek Thermal products.

I must get around to delving inside my Seek Thermal Pro. I am itching to see what the problem is.

Fraser

[ratmole]

Just checked the Seek Reveal Sellers feedback from buyers. Not a single feedback for the Seek Reveal cameras (Except mine) since they sold 10 days ago. That strikes me as a little unusual unless all were bought by one person and they have yet to receive them/leave feedback. Sadly the seller has no more listings for Seek Thermal products.

I must get around to delving inside my Seek Thermal Pro. I am itching to see what the problem is.

Fraser

just open the device and re-seat the flex cable from the camera to the main pcb!
you can guess on how do i know it!
thanks!

[Fraser]

Ratmole,

Thanks for the suggestion. I too have found poorly seated or poor quality ribbon connections to be a cause of issues in portable equipment. It always pays to disconnect, inspect, clean and reconnect all ribbon cables before diving in with the full diagnostic too set  In rugged equipment it is common to either find very high quality ribbon connection systems or some form of strain relief/securing solution in place. Ribbon cables of the clamp connector type are well known for moving due to impacts or just ribbon creep due to tension. I shall do as you suggest and look at that ribbon today I have time for that, but sadly little more at the moment.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Ratmole,

Would I be right in thinking that you bought at least three of the Reveal units from the same seller as me ? I see that three of them are for sale on eBay from a seller (you?) in Greece so it appears they were repairable. It would be great to hear about your experiences repairing them if you are willing to share. Some looked simpler than others. The totally dead units were the big unknown as symptoms were understandably limited !
The one that the seller opened to check it was complete sounded weird as the comment that the buttons were very hard sounded like they were significantly different to the other units that the seller was testing before sale.

I saw that the blue Reveal with missing USB cover came up again for sale again. I wonder what happened there ? I did bid a small amount on it, but once it went over my financial risk threshold I lost interest.

Did you buy the other PRO unit ? It looked like it could be a viable repair, possibly a ribbon cable issue ? but the temperature reading of 32F was a bit weird.

I am pleased with the unit I bought and I hope you were pleased with your purchases as well. If you get a chance to buy a Reveal Pro, it is an impressive little unit and significantly better than the standard Reveal model in all respects. I might have bought the other Pro unit offered by the seller had its price not gone above my ‘bail out’ threshold  .

Best Wishes

Fraser

[Fraser]

Ratmole,

My apologies, I forgot to welcome you to the forum  I like your Forum name as well 

Welcome and if you are new to the forum, I hope you find its contents of interest 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Someone got themselves a bargain today. An NEC AVIO 7700 in IMPAC branding for less than £400 ! Total bargain considering the quality of the imaging core and lenses used in these cameras. Only down side was that it is the European <9fps version rather than the normal US spec 60fps specification.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/impac-ivn-770-p-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-/164283222212?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=t%252Fwx9yOgtQm9wpYWMFnsKCq%252FXCU%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

And yes, I did bid on it, so if the buyer is reading this, sorry for raising the end price, but you still got a bargain

I know quite a lot about NEC AVIO thermal cameras and even have the full service manual for one particular model 

I have a very nice Germanium supplementary lens for the 7700/7800 series camera in my collection. It awaits a mounting adapter to fit my other cameras. A Top quality lens 

Fraser

[ratmole]

Did you buy the other PRO unit ? It looked like it could be a viable repair, possibly a ribbon cable issue ? but the temperature reading of 32F was a bit weird.

i was going for it (the first one) but unfortunately i was outbid by you!
no worries!

[Fraser]

I rarely bid on ‘common’ thermal cameras these days. I go for the exotic models 

It was a borderline decision for me to bid on the 7700 as I have never liked that particular series case design. It seemed ‘cheep’ compared to my other TH and TS series NEC AVIO thermal cameras. The imaging core is very nice though 

As a side note, I have a licence for the excellent Thermography Studio software that NEC AVIO rebranded as their own under licence from Goratec and later, WhiteBlue Software. The software was sold under various brands by camera manufacturers as it had multi brand support. Sadly the software has kind of fallen into a Zombie development state as WhiteBlue stopped development and was looking to be bought out. My licence still works with all the various branded versions of ten Software though

https://www.overloadsrl.it/easyUp/files/GTS08.pdf

Fraser

[Fraser]

Ratmole,

If you have an interest in thermal imaging cameras, You may like to look down my camera collection list 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/frasers-thermal-camera-collection-the-definitive-list-regularly-updated/msg3025468/#msg3025468

Fraser

[Fraser]

Had a quick look at the Seek Reveal Pro. It was very easy to disassemble and took only a couple of minutes 

The possible ribbon cable poor contact was checked and reseating the two ribbon connectors did not resolve the issue. The unit is now disassembled and will undergo further inspection and investigation as time permits.

I will provide decent images of the PCB for others to use as trying to grab frames out of Mikes Reveal Pro teardown video can be challenging and not as detailed as a still image.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Some quick snaps of the main and microbolometer PCB's follow. Please excuse the lack of scene lighting and less than great detail. Better will follow when I start the repair work.

Fraser

[ratmole]

Fraser, can you please upload some high resolution images of the seek reveal pro pcb?
thanks

[Fraser]

I will produce some better images of the Reveal Pro PCB. Is there any particular area of the PCB that is of special interest to you as I can add those areas as well. The forum file size limit impacts how high the resolution can be but I can always post images within those limits and upload full resolution images to a drop box.

Fraser

[ratmole]

not interested on a particular area
just want to see some high res images of the pro pcb
please share the dropbox link if and when ready. thanks

[Fraser]

No worries. I will see what I can sort out today. I will upload to both the forum, within file size constraints, and to a drop box at full resolution.

The Reveal Pro appears to be completely different to the a Reveal design. I hoped another Reveal series model would appear out of the Seek Thermal R&D department but alas the Shield and Fire models are just minor reworking of the standard Reveal Pro. Mostly firmware changes for specific tasking plus a different lens on the Shield model.

No Radiometric TIFF image analysis software, no wireless connectivity, no tripod adapter, no video streaming, no manual focus lens. Opportunities missed ?

Fraser