Author Topic: Guidance needed: Keysight U5855A vs E4/E30 upgraded?  (Read 577 times)

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Offline todd_fuller

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Guidance needed: Keysight U5855A vs E4/E30 upgraded?
« on: November 19, 2020, 08:40:52 pm »
I currently own a U5855A and it's been good to me. I've been considering selling it to upgrade to an E4 or preferably an E30. Since these are easily upgradable, I'll consider a resulting Flir camera to be a better resolution to the super resolution of the U5855A. I'd likely lean toward an E30 though.

Without a back-to-back test, it's hard to know whether this would actually be a fair upgrade. Does anyone have experience with both of these cameras who could share some insight into this decision?


My use case is pretty much - screwing around. I originally bought it to diagnose a room in our new house that was constantly much hotter than the other rooms. Turned out to be a defective window weather seal that was letting the late summer heat in (in Texas the exterior wall by the window was 140F). I used it for lots of other things since and it's a valuable tool.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Guidance needed: Keysight U5855A vs E4/E30 upgraded?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2020, 10:08:02 pm »
The E30, once upgraded to 320 x 240 pixels, will outperform the U5855A as super resolution is not the same as having four times the physical pixels gathering data. Super resolution is a fun function but will not work if the camera is on a tripod. Whilst Super resolution is worth having, it has its limitations.

If you can afford it, buy an E30 or E40, upgrade its configuration and enjoy the excellent imaging that they can offer. I own both U5855A and E40(Upgraded) cameras.

Do you actually need to upgrade from the U5855A ? Well that is a question that only you can answer. The U5855A is a very capable camera that is actually designed and made by the venerable NEC AVIO in Japan. It is a quality product and capable of good thermal images. To get the best from the U5855A go to the NEC AVIO web site and download the better image analysis software they offer for free there. You will need to register but enter your U5855A details and they will authorise the download as they recognise it as one of their cameras.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 12:39:35 am by Fraser »
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline todd_fuller

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Re: Guidance needed: Keysight U5855A vs E4/E30 upgraded?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2020, 04:16:20 am »
Fraser,

Thanks for the reply. This is pretty much the outcome I expected. One thing that puzzles me about the Flir specs is the NETD across their range. How much that is impacted by the upgrade, I have no idea. For instance, E4 is spec’d at 150mK but E6 is 60mK.

Perhaps I am showing my ignorance here, but is the NETD dependent on the chip or is there some relationship to resolution? I guess the question is if an E4 upgraded can achieve half the NETD?
 

Offline exe

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Re: Guidance needed: Keysight U5855A vs E4/E30 upgraded?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2020, 10:06:54 am »
Afaik e4 and e6 are same hardware, the only difference is in software (provided they don't bin sensors). So, lower specs on cheaper models are done by adding artifitial noise, cropping the image, etc.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Guidance needed: Keysight U5855A vs E4/E30 upgraded?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2020, 02:36:31 pm »
As stated by ‘exe’, FLIR use an artificial noise generator to degrade the NeTD figure of the less expensive cameras. The artificial noise injection level is in mK and specified in one of the cameras configuration files that is modified during the resolution upgrade process. It will come as no surprise that we switch off the artificial noise generator !
The camera then provides the best NeTD figure possible. It is worthy of note that even the top of the range E60 had the artificial noise generator switched on and injecting a small amount of noise into the images produced. It may be top of the Exx range but FLIR want/need to provide a performance difference between the Exx range and the more expensive Txxx and Bxxx range that sits above it. Hence why the upgraded Exx series cameras are called the E60+ specification as they actually perform better and provide more functions to the user  :-+ This is possible because FLIR used a common firmware design across several ranges of camera and the greater capabilities of the higher cost ranges were still in the firmware of lower cost cameras, they were just disabled in the configuration files. We just changed the particular functions setting to enable it  :-+

Fraser
Cogito, ergo sum
 

Offline Bill W

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Re: Guidance needed: Keysight U5855A vs E4/E30 upgraded?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2020, 07:09:41 pm »
Afaik e4 and e6 are same hardware, the only difference is in software (provided they don't bin sensors). So, lower specs on cheaper models are done by adding artifitial noise, cropping the image, etc.

Technically it is not cropping, as that would change the field of view, but downsampling. 

Such a downsampling could also tend to reduce image noise if it was combining pixels.  That would give a (very faint) justification for the noise regenerator.
Of course it may just be a case of 'picking' and replicating alternate pixels for the desired lower resolutions.

Bill

Offline DaJMasta

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Re: Guidance needed: Keysight U5855A vs E4/E30 upgraded?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2020, 05:35:42 am »
Had a U5855A, worked fine and fairly easy to use, upgraded to a 60Hz e40 and unlocked the full resolution - it's a big improvement.  The framerate is the biggest one for me, but even my non-msx e40's extra resolution means you can really see some fine detail when focused properly on your subject.  I'd say the optics on the eXX series are probably a bit better than the Keysight, and I think the ergonomics are better even though I think it's slightly heavier.

I think the eX series is more of a sidegrade, but may still be an improvement if the framerate is higher - the high resolution mode for the U5855A works fine, but it's really not a substitute for a higher resolution sensor, it's just a notable improvement over the base 160x120.
 

Offline todd_fuller

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Re: Guidance needed: Keysight U5855A vs E4/E30 upgraded?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2020, 06:30:45 pm »
So an update on this... I need to sell my U5855A now. I have a new, old stock E40 in my hands and another one on the way. In some surreal turn of luck, I scored two cameras from Flir's own Black Friday sale for less than what I paid for my U5855A. Now, I need to spend some quality time with the Flir hacking threads.
 


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