Author Topic: Guide PC210 Review  (Read 48073 times)

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Offline Almenaar

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2022, 03:59:54 pm »
@markb1980: Thanks for your quick reply for Fb and also for pointing me in a better direction. When the first work/assignments done with the PC210 prove to be successful I will dive into finding better equipment. For now, it is a bit too early for me.
@markb1980 and @katzenhai2: from both your replies I notice that there is a lot to learn for me! Thanks.
 
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Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2022, 04:48:55 pm »
Thanks for your quick reply for Fb and also for pointing me in a better direction. When the first work/assignments done with the PC210 prove to be successful I will dive into finding better equipment. For now, it is a bit too early for me.
That sounds like a good plan.

Don't get me wrong - you can get work done with a PC210! But you will learn more then you need for your work in an ITC L1 class... Some of the things you would learn are not important for you - mostly you look for differences and not exact measurements. For example you don't care if a spot cool down to 14° or 13C or 15°C - the temp. itself is not that important. It's important to you that this spot is aprox. 5°C cooler than some other areas.

There are a few things you need to do to prepare a thermal inspection of a home and some things to keep in mind when analysing the images. Many things from the L1 training are important for correct temperature measurements. For home inspections there are additional trainings available. Your work is to find anomalies and differences. Even if your temp. readings are 2 or 3°C off you will still see the differences as you will have probably everywhere the same error (an exception would be a local reflection) and so that the differences would be the same!

I am pretty confident that you can do it without L1 training. Maybe the better option would be to get some kind of mentor who does home-inspections for a living and who can help you to get started! Try at least do discuss the images you took with knowledgeable people to get a feedback what you have done good and what not!
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2022, 06:54:12 pm »
@Almenaar
Just send me a PM on Facebook and I can hook you up with some fulltime thermographers which can give you a few tips...
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline Almenaar

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2022, 07:28:06 pm »
@markb1980: Thanks again Markb1980. If I can do without the L1 course that would be nice. At the other hand, as you have also written somewhere else in this thread: it is a certificate showing some expertise. That can be helpful in getting an easier entrance to customers and most likely also in charging more for the service.
And I will PM you on FB, having the possibility to ask some questions to knowledgeable people would be really helpful too.
 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2022, 08:18:56 pm »
If I can do without the L1 course that would be nice.
That depends on the laws of your country. Some allow everyone to do thermal imaging and in some you need to proof that you have a formal education ...

it is a certificate showing some expertise. That can be helpful in getting an easier entrance to customers and most likely also in charging more for the service.
Not really - I have learned programming from books back in the days but I had never any formal education. Anyway I have worked almost 15 years as a full-time programmer and I have done multiple hundred of projects.

No client ever asked me for some certificate or the like. Now a an professional expert I had to do basically certs for everything to proof some kind of education. If you are going to write expert opinions for a court or you want to do some kind of work for the public authorities then yes - you will need to show at least a L1 training. As far as I know for an expert opinion in court you will need a L2 at least.

So it depends on the country and it depends on the type of work you do. If you want to rate the energy efficency of homes for the approval of state subsidies then you will need a cert. and a better camera also. As far as I know most european countries request at least 320x240 resolution for such reports and for expert opinions.

If you use it as a tool helping you in your work like a plumber would use a cheap thermal camera for tracing heating pipes or an electician would use it to see how the underfloor heating works, then you can do what you want... My GF estimate real estate pricing and she checks most buildings with a thermal camera not for her conclusions but to see if something looks out of the ordenary and in such a case she calls an expert to investigate further.

In case you do some kind of reporting for the client you have to check if thermal imaging is something you can do without a certificate in your country.

And I will PM you on FB, having the possibility to ask some questions to knowledgeable people would be really helpful too.
Looking forward to it. We can discuss that further on FB with some friends of mine which have far more knowledge then me...
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 08:29:42 pm by markb1980 »
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline katzenhai2

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2022, 08:54:18 pm »
The Hikmicro M20W has a fixed focus ("focus free") so you can't manually adjust it.
The M20 (without the W) has a manual focus but a more narrow FOV.
Yes I am aware of that - maybe it didn't came out in the message.
[...]
I have found the M20W as low as 1666 EUR in Hersch. A M30 would be 2636 EUR. Thats basically a 1000 EUR price difference. The M20 is much closer in price but the focus-free design make the M20W cheaper.
If you want to focus manually the higher resolution makes the M30 a better choice. The price difference between the M20 and M30 is marginal (on Black Friday it cost only €2,188).
Since you referred to "defocus" I thought you were recommending a manual focus camera. Hence my hint that the M20W does not have such a thing. Misunderstanding. ;)

[...] If you are going to write expert opinions for a court or you want to do some kind of work for the public authorities then yes - you will need to show at least a L1 training. As far as I know for an expert opinion in court you will need a L2 at least.
[...]
If I understand correctly L2 is the final certification course where you learn about hands-on thermal experience. L3 is be more intended to plan and carry out your own projects (e.g. in a company), e.g. with new production facilities: what needs to be thermographed and how, what the employees have to do when and how. At least that's what I've read about it in certification descriptions.

But that all haven't anything to do with the Guide PC210...  ;D
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 09:03:49 pm by katzenhai2 »
 
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Offline aydd

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2022, 12:47:55 am »
hello

pls tell me
pc210 where can i buy holder  or  3d print file download link ?
pc210 20  50,8 makro lens. Can you write the best selling site
 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2022, 07:37:43 am »
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline aydd

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2022, 09:37:04 pm »
I couldn't find this product on aliexpress. :(



 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2022, 10:36:35 pm »
Just search "50.8mm znse lens" - there are a lot of offers.
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline aydd

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2022, 11:06:10 pm »
no only holder .
 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 


Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #63 on: December 26, 2022, 08:29:44 am »
For all entry level thermal cameras you can get a 50.8mm lens.
But I would not recommand a UTi-260B or Infiray C200 for electronics. These cameras do not allow you you set level and span manually and that may become an issue in many cases.
So try to get a Hikmicro B10 / B20 / Pocket2 or Guide PC210.
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline aydd

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #64 on: December 26, 2022, 11:15:02 am »
I bought this product. 20x50.8 lens. Should I buy china pvd or usa cvd? which one is better
 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #65 on: December 26, 2022, 12:10:15 pm »
I my opinion it does not matter!
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline zhe song

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #66 on: December 27, 2022, 09:13:35 am »
Can someone tell me where I can get a firmware upgrade for PC210? The version is V1.3.6.20220520
 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #67 on: December 27, 2022, 10:33:17 am »
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline rfspezi

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2023, 01:41:38 pm »
Which camera model would be equal or better than the Guide PC210 in the similar price range?

 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2023, 02:39:33 pm »
I would say non at the same price range but if you are willing to spend 200 USD more you can have a Hikmicro B10, B20 or Pocket2 which are a overall better deal in my opinion and a overall more prof. tool!
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline sikseb

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2023, 02:52:31 pm »
Hello markb1980,

Would you recommend PC210 for house inspections both indoor and outdoor? Not professionally; just for home-use.
Would you recommend PC230 over it it has autofocus & smaller FOV and costs ~100 EUR more?
https://www.guideir.com/products/thermographys-tools/pc/data_165.html

Thanks
 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2023, 03:23:20 pm »
Home inspection mean wide angle lens / wide FOV.
See the comparison of the wide daylight camera and the very narrow FOV of the termal camera.

With the PC230 you will ofern have no space to get all in the picture what you want if you have a normal flat or house.

A PC230 is much better suited to inspect electrical cupplings or high-voltage transformers where you have to keep a greater distance.
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline sikseb

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2023, 09:00:39 pm »
Thanks. Based on this now i have a pc210. ;)

Have some questions:

What is roimeasure in the settings?
What would be a good enough emission value for home inspection brick based walls, is 0.93-95 good?

Thanks in advance
 

Offline markb1980Topic starter

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2023, 09:18:56 pm »
What is roimeasure in the settings?
What do you mean by that?

What would be a good enough emission value for home inspection brick based walls, is 0.93-95 good?
0.95 would be OK for most walls. Basically you want to see differences when Inspecting homes and not pinpoint accuracy for the readings. You are much more concerned if a certain part of a building shows a temp. difference. (see the sample images - there you can clear see that some temperature is gettng lost and thatfor some parts cool down)

Emissivity can be dertermined by a emissivity table - e.g.: https://ennologic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Ultimate-Emissivity-Table.pdf

The Material in the wall do not matter but the material on the surface. That's why emissivity stickers work. You can stick them on a shiny surface which would be basically impossible to read reliably but the sticker allow you to do that.

So you need to check the emissivity of the paint oder whatever is the last layer on the surface and not the main building material.
Pentester, Digital forensics examiner, Data recovery technitian, Author for various books
Learn thermal imaging: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/ | https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552 | https://thermal-image-samples.com/thermal-pixel-peeping/
 

Offline sikseb

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Re: Guide PC210 Review
« Reply #74 on: February 10, 2023, 02:12:56 pm »
Thanks. It is in the settings of thenpc210. Screenshot is attached.

Also can you comfirm if the firmware is good enough?

Thanks.
 


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