Help in choosing thermal camera

[Motero]

Hello,
For some time I want to handle a thermal camera, and I think it is time.

My main use will be to detect cryptic birds, for example, birds the size of a pigeon to 20-30 meters away. Another possible use is to detect the presence of small birds in cavities to 10-15 meters.

I'm thinking about two possibilities, the Therm-app or Thermal Expert. Could you advise me which model and which lens could be more successful? some idea of another model or manufacturer?

The idea is to detect the presence of birds and locate correctly over the image to study their distribution. I do not care get super sharp images, but if I would like to distinguish between two neighboring individuals.

Thanks and regards
Marcos

[Chanc3]

Do you have a budget?

[Motero]

Thank you Chanc3,

I do not have a budget. My intention is to spend as little as possible. But I do not want to throw money on something useless, I would to have enough guarantees of success.

Best regards
Marcos Otero

[cynfab]

Here are 3 chickens at ~10 meters. and again at ~5 meters

The first was processed and re-saved using flir tools mobile, to remove the cross hairs. It also seems to have resized the image.
The second is straight from the camera.
You can use flir tools or flir tools mobile ti probe further.

Taken with my E4+

[Redshift1340]

This is a great article I saw a while back about infrared bird watching using the Therm-App, Seek, and FLIR One gen1.  Out of those three, the Therm-App is the only real choice.  However, the i3 Thermal Expert could be just as effective givin their similar specs and interchangeable lenses.  For the Therm-App, you might want to use the 19mm lens, or even the 35mm if you can swing the extra $750.

http://infrared-birding.blogspot.com/2015/01/welcome-to-infrared-birding.html

http://infrared-birding.blogspot.com/p/welcome-to-infrared-birding.html

[Motero]

Thanks guys,

Cynfab, birds I want to detect are smaller and shyer than your chickens . Thank you for your photographs, are very instructive.

Redshift1340, Suan Hsi Yong 's blog is excellent, I already knew and I also asked for advice. However, I still have doubts. What would be better choice for my purpose?

Therm-app wthit 19mm f / 1.1 lens Thermal Expert or Camera with 13mm f / 1.0 lens?... be enough another cheaper device (Seek, Flir One,...? or perhaps it would be best to choose to models such as the Pulsar Quantum HD19A or similars

I'm Drowning in a sea of doubt, I greatly appreciate any suggestions.

Best regards
Marcos

[cynfab]

Motero,
I tried getting pix of some smaller birds too, but as you said they are quite shy, so I didn't bother to post the "where birds were" images.;>)

[Redshift1340]

Thanks guys,

Cynfab, birds I want to detect are smaller and shyer than your chickens . Thank you for your photographs, are very instructive.

Redshift1340, Suan Hsi Yong 's blog is excellent, I already knew and I also asked for advice. However, I still have doubts. What would be better choice for my purpose?

Therm-app wthit 19mm f / 1.1 lens Thermal Expert or Camera with 13mm f / 1.0 lens?... be enough another cheaper device (Seek, Flir One,...? or perhaps it would be best to choose to models such as the Pulsar Quantum HD19A or similars

I'm Drowning in a sea of doubt, I greatly appreciate any suggestions.

Best regards
Marcos

Well I have the FLIR one G2 and I can tell you it's definitely not enough for bird watching, I've tried it.  From what I've seen, the Seek and Seek XR aren't much better unless you're on a tight sub $300 budget.  I haven't seen any sample images of birds with the Thermal Expert but from the images I've seen of other subject matter, it looks about on par with the Therm-App. Quality-wise, the internal construction of the Thermal Expert doesn't seem quite as good as the Therm-App, there's some pics of a tear down of it on this forum.  As far as lens choices, both cameras have equivalent options to choose from.

Here's some pictures taken with my FLIR One G2 of geese in my pond about 80ft away, as you can see it's not that effective.  The second is a bird nesting in my gutter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9myfbszz0iif4yc/Photo%20Feb%2013%2C%206%2029%2029%20PM.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/13mmv0e6q4mwln0/Photo%20Apr%2017%2C%201%2055%2024%20AM.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bgoaavlglqc2448/Photo%20Apr%2020%2C%208%2007%2003%20PM.jpg?dl=0

[Motero]

Thank you again for your contributions,

Redshift1340, thank you very much for your photos  , but I think I need more resolution. I want to detect birds to 80 feet away with the size of the head of your geese.
With your contributions, I am determined to go for the Therm-App HZ with 35mm lens. Currently, Thermal Expert does not have anything like that. For Thermal Expert (384x288) there are available only 6.8mm and 13mm lenses. A 25mm lens is only available for Thermal Expert-V1 (640x480), which will come out around $ 4,000 in 30Hz version. Too high for my initial idea.
Now the question is: I can recommend somewhere for purchase with sending to Spain?

Thank you very much for all your generous assistance.
Regards.

[frenky]

For Hz version you probably must fulfil this form:

http://therm-app.com/therm-app-hz-contact-page/

[Redshift1340]

Thank you again for your contributions,

Redshift1340, thank you very much for your photos  , but I think I need more resolution. I want to detect birds to 80 feet away with the size of the head of your geese.
With your contributions, I am determined to go for the Therm-App HZ with 35mm lens. Currently, Thermal Expert does not have anything like that. For Thermal Expert (384x288) there are available only 6.8mm and 13mm lenses. A 25mm lens is only available for Thermal Expert-V1 (640x480), which will come out around $ 4,000 in 30Hz version. Too high for my initial idea.
Now the question is: I can recommend somewhere for purchase with sending to Spain?

Thank you very much for all your generous assistance.
Regards.

You're welcome . That's a very good choice, and it's actually the same model I've been saving up for.  Here's a video I posted a while back that shows the Therm-App Hz with some small bats flying around.  The detail and clarity is quite impressive, I think you'll be happy with it.

Encryptededdy, yeah the grass is always greener I suppose  . I agree, I'll be keeping the FLIR regardless. thanks for the heads up on the Black Friday deal!  I've wanted to get the Therm-app for a while (or a modded e4) but can't swing $1,000 right now unfortunately.  It produces a great image at that price point.  But I did have my eye on the i3 ThermalExpert too and I hope it comes in closer to $500 than a grand.  I thought it was supposed to be released in late October but I haven't heard anything about a new release date, I hope it's soon though..
http://youtu.be/kBq6ixmVcCk

[Motero]

Thanks people,

Thanks for the link frenky. I asked them and they do not directly sell this model (Hz). They have contacted me with a salesperson in Israel. The problem with this is the complicated procedures and customs fees to get to Spain. Do you know somewhere trust within the European Union? In Spain I cannot find where.

Redshift1340 your video is spectacular  , have you done Hz + 35mm lens? How far could be flying those bats?

Thanks and regards
Marcos

[Redshift1340]

Thanks people,

Thanks for the link frenky. I asked them and they do not directly sell this model (Hz). They have contacted me with a salesperson in Israel. The problem with this is the complicated procedures and customs fees to get to Spain. Do you know somewhere trust within the European Union? In Spain I cannot find where.

Redshift1340 your video is spectacular  , have you done Hz + 35mm lens? How far could be flying those bats?

Thanks and regards
Marcos

I can't take credit, I actually found this video on YouTube.  I'm still saving up money to order my Therm-App Hz.  Sorry for the confusion.  However, in the video he says the bats are 40-50 yards away (35-45 meters).  I think I remember finding a video of someone using the 35mm lens.  If I find it again, I'll post it here for you.

Update: here's a video of a Hz+35mm lens, not the greatest video but you might get the idea
https://youtu.be/kM8Ir1zZi3I