ICI and DALI thermal camera software ?

[Fraser]

I am on the hunt for any ICI or DALI thermal camera/core software or SDK's.
ICI have some software called "IR FLASH Pro" and "IR Flash STM". I believe DALI cores are used in some ICI cameras so DALI software is also of interest.

If anyone has any of this software, I would love to try it as I may be working with a ICI FM-640-P in the near future. I would like to see whether that camera may be repurposed.

Fraser

[ArsenioDev]

Oh I have that, hang on lemme dig it up
Edit all ICI FM are Dali OEM relabels.

[Fraser]

Brilliant ! Thank you 

Fraser

[Chanc3]

I've got most, if not all of the ICI software I believe. When I get to the office tomorrow, I'll upload and send a link.

[Fraser]

Thank you 

Fraser

[radziorr]

Hi,
Under link below you will find Dali software, which is mentioned in attached manual, however I was not able to install it as it requires path with chinese characters to some unpacked files.. maybe you will be more successfull with that task 
 http://yk3.gokuai.com/file/x849mlaibswfgg8dk5qrg13uzktkm0xf#
There are two versions of FM-640-P cameras, older one with Hikvision DS-2CD7027FWD camera inside, and newer design with more light sensitive (unnamed) color camera, smaller chassis, different Dali thermal module and some AI chip for face recognition from horizon robotics. Both versions have web-service interface and rtsp streams, so they work without additional software
I had somewhere manual for dali module, which describes pinout, communication protocol, etc. I will try to dig for it later.

[Fraser]

Radziorr,

Many thanks for that information and software. I appreciate any and all information relating to these cameras and if you can find the DALI cores documentation that would be great to have.

I was aware of four versions of the camera in terms of exterior detail:

1. Type 1 - Rear panel contains a fan port, multi way connector and cable anchor point.
2. Type 2 - Rear panel contains only a cable gland with fixed cable coming through it.
3. Type 3 - Front visor has a small Black Body plate added to it for dynamic temperature measurement calibration.
4. Type 4 - Rear panel contains a fan port, multiple I/O ports plus cable anchor point. Appears to be a variant of Type 1 camera.

In terms of the specifications... the DALI DM60-W/WS appears to be available in 160 x 120 pixel and 320 x 240 pixel thermal core versions. The ICI FM 640 P version is 640 x 512 Pixels.

Fraser

[Fraser]

My camera is due to arrive on Monday but, from the pictures, it looks to be a "Type 2" as I have called the version. This has a slightly different case design and a fixed cable that exits the camera at the rear panel via a cable gland. I attach the auction pictures of my camera.

[Fraser]

Front views of the varions versions....

[ArsenioDev]

Great news, that's the more compact one inside.
Bad news: It's not the nice RTSP backpack equipped one from V1.
Upside: Not hard to modify to patch in NTSC out on the BNC
I'll get some documentation up on that effort I did

[radziorr]

Version 2 contains Dali D843C module (https://www.dalithermal.com/productinfo/741568.html) with DLD640 detector (http://www.dali-tech.us/products/dld64017m-uncooled-infrared-fpa-detector-86.html)
I might satisfy your curiosity by this pic:

 

I wouldn't say that this is a great module - not very sensitive,with noisy image when heated up, so requires frequent nuc's, and shutter is loud as hell 
but still quite capable regarding the price...


UserManual is attached to this post - I've got it from Dali tech support (they are quite helpful - props to them  )

some other photos:

[Fraser]

Radziorr,

Many thanks for sharing that very helpful information and documentation.

The FPA has the appearance of the early ULIS microbolometers that were supplied to China when they did not have their own microbolometer fabrication houses up to speed on the technology. The module casings were a modified standard design from the opto electronics industry. Its flaw was fragile glass seals on the leads so the modules need to be treated with care to avoid stressing the leads and associated glass seals. My thanks to forum member Bill_W for warning me of this issue some years ago  I understand that some Chinese companies tried to copy the ULIS A-Si microbolometers and several clones of the ULIS modules appeared on the market. Interestingly, the technology used within the clone modules often became VOx rather than A-Si. VOx offers a better signal to noise ratio than A-Si but OEM's have overcome the A-Si noise challenges through lower noise microbolometers and more advanced noise processing. I note that DALI are still using A-Si microbolometer technology in this camera core. It could even be an early ULIS technology.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Interesting document detailing ULIS microbolometer technology attached....

I have added a picture of a ULIS 04-17-1 VGA A-Si microbolometer as well. Note that the 04-17-1 design dates back to 2005 and uses larger (25um) pixels than the DLD640. More modern microbolometers from Linred (was ULIS) are in a ceramic module format.

[Fraser]

The user manual for the Dali imaging core makes for very interesting reading. From it I can see that the core may be controlled using either Pelco or Dali command sets. Pelco is a standard and I own CCTV keyboards that ‘talk Pelco’ so that is an option. Sadly the Dali command protocol is not detailed and another document is referenced. I also noted from the manual that there are hardware pins on the I/O connector that appear to provide local menu access with a simple button pad as found on cameras like the FLIR A20 and A40. If this is the case, it is a real bonus for me as I like having local menu access to the cores functions. It would be a simple task to make a dumb remote controller that plugs into the camera.

Once I have the ICI FM 640 P I will test the Dali software with it and see what can be achieved via that path to control the camera.

Thankfully the cores VGA resolution has not been squandered on a very large field of view (34Hx 26V degrees) so I am hoping to get some decent thermal imagery out of it. I find it interesting that ICI claim a thermal resolution of 640 x 512 pixels, yet Dali indicate that the core actually produces 640 x 480 pixels. The ICI marketing department getting carried away maybe 

Fraser

[Fraser]

I received a delivery today ..... it was the FM 640 P camera kit 

The kit contains the camera head, BlackBody, power supply, mounting hardware and an Ethernet cable. The camera is in pristine condition with no evidence of use outside or inside its casing. I attach some pictures, including one showing the FM 640 P sat on top of my larger and heavier ACE Biotech camera head. The FM 640 P is a very neat little camera head and the interior is nicely designed  As has been previously detailed in this thread, the thermal imaging core is the DALI D8X3C with DLD640FC VGA microbolometer. I was very fortunate to win this camera kit for £125 ! They normally sell for a lot more than that. I half expected the eBay seller to refuse to ship it to me for that auction end price.

I will need to find the spare time to hook the camera up to a laptop and see what I can do with it. My sincerest thanks to those who have provided help and information on this camera system. I would not have been able to use it to its full potential without the information that has been provided. Any further software and information for the FM 640 P/DM60WS or D8XC core would be very gratefully received 

I am very chuffed to have a VGA thermal camera again after I sold my Ganz/DRS VGA CCTV camera some time ago.

Fraser

[ArsenioDev]

Full ICDs provided.
Still working on making a nice little USB interface backpack for this core with full control.

[Fraser]

Thank you. The Dali protocol certainly provides plenty of control over the core 

Fraser

[radziorr]

Thanks Fraser for sharing interesting info regarding ULIS microbolometers. Those DALI ones surely looks like those early models from ULIS! I wonder if the performance is similiar 
You are right about ICI marketing dpt being too optimistic as VLC confirms, that video stream resolution is 640x480  . The problem however is as usual with network cameras - laggy video stream, like 1s  or so over the web and even more via VLC. I tried to use analog output for lower latency as a quick walkaround, but without luck  it seems that there have be some activation needed in the dedicated software as the signal goes missing somewhere on mainboard.
£125 for that camera was a good deal, I've seen some prices in the web that were way over 10,000USD (a covid type prices - obviously)
Regarding those KEY input pins, sadly they are only accessible on 50-pin main connector, and are absent on that ribbon cable connector  . Connector specified in manual is hardly accessible, but I have found compatible replacement: DF12NB-50DS-0.5V(51), unfortunately I don't have much time for "development" right now..

btw. what sits inside that Biotek?

ArsenioDev,
I'm strongly interested in such interface backpack, especially if there will be posibility to change the settings on the go 
Do you have any timeline for that project?

[Fraser]

Radziorr,

The Ace BIOTEK camera contains a cased IP CCTV visible light camera of unknown manufacturer and a Yoseen Infrared X384D thermal imaging core. I created a thread in an effort to identify the thermal core and it may be seen here, along with a tear down of that core.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/mystery-thermal-ip-camera-could-be-from-dali-teardown-)/

I am pleased to say that the core was identified and I received great support from Yoseen Infrared.

Fraser

[ArsenioDev]

ArsenioDev,
I'm strongly interested in such interface backpack, especially if there will be posibility to change the settings on the go 
Do you have any timeline for that project?

My basic PCB layout is coming along well, the main issue will be software on the chip and on the host OS side.
I am a hardware dude by training, software is hard.
As for outputting analog, I had to do a hardware hack to get that on my unit, will write up some docs on that later this week

[Fraser]

I found time yesterday to attempt install of the Dali and ICI software for the FM 640 P camera. Sadly both installations failed. Both pieces of software reported missing files despite being self contained installation archives. The DALI software reports a missing CAB but I can see the same file present as a RAR type and no amount of effort allowed that to be unpacked by the installation routine. All the files are present in the RAR, it apparently should be a .CAB file though.

The ICI IR FLASH software installs but when run it reports three missing .DLL files. The files are not present in the installation folder

Not a very successful day on that front !

If anyone has another copy of this software, I would very much appreciate a copy please 

Fraser

[Fraser]

I contacted ICI today asking for the latest version of IR Flash Pro STM and they very kindly provided it to me. Sadly it is the same Version 6.6 software as has already been provided and it produces the same error when run. Time to investigate the error further.
Great support from ICI 

Fraser

[Chanc3]

I'm off this week, but when I return on Tuesday, I'll send you a copy of the software I have, which works with my ICI camera.

[Fraser]

Chanc3,

Thank you

Fraser

[zev]

I got a couple of these cameras from folks getting rid of them now that COVID is in the rear view mirror.  Seems ICI charged an arm and a leg for these when they were new but can be had rather cheaply. Finally got in and was able to change settings and record video, here is the process I used, I have the "type 2" model Fraser mentioned with the integrated cable.

Point web browser to camera IP: 192.168.1.102
The default login credentials are:
   User Name: admin
   Password: Admin123
   (I doubt many users would reset this, not a security device exactly)  

From there, in Internet Explorer (and I believe other browsers supporting the VLC plugin) you should be able to view both feeds under the preview tab.  In all browser though, you can change the configuration settings and the viewing pallet, these settings appear to stay set after reboot.  You can also change the frequency of auto NUC, or turn it off completely (image will get rather noisy after a few tens of seconds).

Video feeds can be viewed alternatively captured as RTSP streams at the following addresses (thanks to Arsenio for this info!), in VLC as a network stream or many other ways:

IR feed: rtsp://192.168.1.102/ONVIFMedia
VIS feed: rtsp://192.168.1.102/ONVIFMedia

VLC can record as well which makes it quite handy for this.

The manual provided by ICI (can be found here: https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/20335613/Product%20PDFs/Product%20Manuals/ici-skin-temperature-monitor-software-manual.pdf) includes a link to a firmware updater for this camera (file is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v84t1sbyyhr1o9q/Firmware_20200826.zip), I believe when the camera originally shipped it only worked with the Dali Tech "InspectionQuarentineSystem" software, and eventually ICI made the "ICI Flash STM" software.  Interestingly, I have a copy of the standard ICI Flash (non-STM version) and it does not support this camera either, it seems.

One thing I have noticed about the ONVIF output, changing framrate and bitrate settings do not seem to actually have any effect.  Also, there appears to be less compression when using a pallet such as Hot Metal (a sort of orange gradient) vs the monochrome White Hot or Black Hot, which are usually my preferred pallets.  The upside of Hot Metal vs one of the rainbows is that it still is a luminance gradient, so you can take recorded footage and convert it to monochrome and luminance will be correctly preserved (if with a slight gamma curve applied).

Next step is to poke at the analog output.  These are quite nice little cameras, very interested to see what backpack you put together Arsenio!

[zev]

A little more info:

I got analog out set up on the camera now.  As per the documentation (D8X3CUserManual attached earlier in this thread) analog video out is pin 1 of the 50 pin header on the board.  A little continuity testing showed that that pin is connected to the following traces, picture 1 shows where it is on the camera module and picture 2 shows it on the unit main board.

I spliced in so that the analog video connector in the rear cable is connected direct to the camera board instead of the main board, circumventing the main board entirely.

This in interesting, because it appears the analog out directly from the camera is a much higher quality signal than what is output over the ethernet port.  I wonder if the digital capture being done by the ethernet board is not taking the full 14bit depth or some other bottle neck, it is less sharp and has less dynamic range and sensitivity than the analog channel.

One interesting next direction to go would be to directly control the camera module.  This can be done with pins 3-7, and should allow full control of the camera without using the ICI main board at all.  As is, if you try to run the module without connecting it to the main board it only NUCs once at startup, which quickly makes it not a great image.  Very interesting that the analog video looks so much better, definitely points to the fact that a custom data capture 'backpack' could squeeze much more performance out of this camera.

[Bobertsawesome]

To add to this thread on different variants of the ICI FM 640 P...

I snagged one off eBay for ~$300, still a good price IMO for what's inside. It was absolutely caked with dust on the inside of the housing and must've been used for a while or in an industrial setting. It has a variation of the visible camera I've never seen before in teardowns (although noted as being on the original model by radziorr). A HIKVision (DS-2CD7027FWD) camera equipped with electronic focus control.

The core is the DLD640 and the backpack/core combo is the Dali-Tech D843NT, which is Dali's own module. I'm hoping that this will provide better implementation possibilities if I can get Dali to provide core documentation, plus it's got a much smaller footprint than the later ICI "Plus" models which had a separate processing board.

The login password is different when connecting via IP 192.168.1.102 than the newer modules noted in this thread. Exact same interface otherwise.
Username: admin
Password: admin


One thing I did notice is this whole module gets rather warm, which I'm sure isn't great for image sensitivity. I used another thermal camera to image the Dali module (I recognize the irony) and it seems the Altera Cyclone is the main heat source. It would be interesting to see if I can add some heatsinking or cooling to remove this heat. After several minutes the whole core housing becomes heated. I do have a stirling crycooler at my disposal, the Superlink Hybrid 98, which may call for some experimentation.

[Fraser]

Bobertawsome,

Thank you for sharing details of your cameras internal modules. Very interesting 

Regarding localised heating of the thermal camera module, this is not uncommon and not normally a problem. The Microbolometer normally operates in thermal equilibrium at around +32 Degrees Celsius. The die temperature is monitored by the electronics package. Cryogenic cooling of a microbolometer is not normally needed or recommended. If a component in the electronics package is generating too much localised heat it is often dealt with by adding forced air cooling to the enclosure and a small finned heatsink to the offending component. Another option is to use a copper heat pipe or solid copper ‘finger’ attached to the offending component and a large heat sink or thermal reservoir. As I say, heat from the electronics package is not normally a problem in larger cores where air can circulate. It is the miniature imaging cores with hot processors in close proximity to the rear of the microbolometer that can cause thermal gradients and other undesirable effects on the image output.

Fraser

[Bobertsawesome]

Thanks for the additional info 

Looking at the product page I believe the camera core is TEC temp controlled, so it would make sense that the die is probably a lower temp and the additional heat is sinking off the hot side of the Peltier.

[Fraser]

If a Peltier module is being used that is good news as it greatly improves microbolometer stability. The down side of the Peltier temperature stabiliser is that the core will be quite power hungry, especially at first switch on. You will see the Peltier stabilising the microbolometer by monitoring the current draw when the core is switched on. The current will drop significantly once operating temperature is reached. I personally like cores that have temperature stabilisation so it is good that yours has this feature 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Several nice thermal cameras were rehomed in private sales. I have multiple examples of some cameras so sold some excess inventory

I still buy the odd thermal camera if it is interesting enough and the price is right (it has to be inexpensive!) I no longer buy cameras purely for teardown and analysis posts on this forum though as my funds are very limited. Times have changed from when I used to buy many cameras to learn about the designs and technology within. I have now accumulated enough technical knowledge to repair both old and new cameras 

I have also moved onto repairing specialist fully rugged laptops, as used by the military, law enforcement and hazardous environment teams. That new interest distracts me a little from the thermal imaging scene  That said, a nice high-end industrial thermal imaging camera connected to a mint Dell Latitude Rugged 7414 laptop is a thing of beauty to me