Infiray and their P2 Pro - discussion

[Fraser]

Giuss,

We will never know 


I contacted Infiray directly and offered to review their P2 Pro. Rambo Sonny contacted me and arranged to send a review unit to me. The unit arrived and will be reviewed. I suspect Infiray were casting their net to see which "influencers" were interested in reviewing their product. I was asked if I had a Youtube presence. I do not, but they still sent me a sample camera. I have no reason to believe the offer of review samples was fake as Infiray seem to have scattered review sample far and wide across the internet. Sadly, with what has happened in recent days on this forum, I doubt anyone who showed interest in reviewing the P2 Pro in that review thread will receive a sample to test.

I am an honourable person though and I agreed to review the P2 Pro in an unbiased and honest review. That will happen, though it has slipped down my priority list a little as i have many draws on my time at the moment, some of them involving me earning a living !

I am really sorry that Infiray have used these Astroturfing techniques on this forum. They would have been a good company to have present on the forum and they would have benefitted from the significant technical knowledge present here. All that has gone now that the Astroturfing debacle has occurred. A case of "do not cr*p in your own nest" eh 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Chemary,

Sorry of the recent posts in this thread have caused confusion.

This thread is about both Infiray and their new P2 Pro camera. The matter of Infirays behaviour on this forum, and in general, is therefore "on-topic" as it threatened our ability to discuss Infiray products here

Thankfully that matter is now over so we can go back to discussing the P2 Pro.

Be aware that the EEVBlog Forum is very relaxed place to 'meet' and we do not normally mind a little drifting off topic so long as the discussion is useful to readers of the thread and not too far off base. It seems to work Ok for most 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Back on the topic of the P2 Pro....

I ordered a simple microscope stand for my P2 Pro as that will ease its use in PCB analysis activities. Now I do not need the P2 Pro for such work as I own a DYT CA-10 and the FLIR ETS320 but I am interested in how the P2 Pro performs in that role when mounted on a stable platform.

The microscope stand I bought cost £18.99 from Amazon and I am pleasantly surprised with what arrived today. Let me first say that the stand is made for those torpedo shaped digital microscopes and is built down to an affordable price ! That said, the whole microscope stand is made from aluminium, except for the vertical movement brake and tips of the microscope retaining screws that are nylon. I was surprised to not see cheap plastic used for the vertical adjustment knobs and the locking nut at the columns base. It is better than I expected for less than £20 
The vertical movement is smooth on my stand and the nylon brake is effective at setting the tension. This stand is not NIKON or Olympus quality, but it does suit the application that we are discussing here

As stated the stand is intended to hold a digital microscope of diameter up to 35mm. That is clearly not suitable for the diminutive P2 Pro, but the stand is easily adapted to our needs using nothing more sophisticated that a 'bung' to fit the microscope ring and some velcro pads to mount the camera to the 'bung'. It is also possible to make a nice adapter with 3D printing, as has been done for other dongle thermal cameras.

I have seen some nice aluminium 'bungs' used with silicone hoses in cars and there is a 35mm diameter size available. I might adapt one of those or 3D print something when I have more spare time. For the moment I will Jerry rig something for my tests.

For anyone wanting to buy this microscope stand, here is the Amazon UK page that I bought from but it is also widely available on eBay.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0797PPX8D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Price was £18.99, including a nice zipped carry case for it and accessories, delivered next day 

Fraser

[Fraser]

I have found a nice 3D printable tripod mount holder for the P2 that I intend to modify to create the P2 holder for my microscope stand.

The original files for the holder are to be found here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5144744/files

It is the P2 tripod mounting cube that I will adapt by adding a cylinder to its rear for the 35mm microscope ring. I quickly roughed up such a design but will create a proper 3D printable model shortly. The Cylinder height has yet to be determined as it could be used for added height adjustment below the microscope mounts minimum height setting. It looks like I will be firing up my UP! Box 3D printer again soon 

In case anyone is wondering, the mount is also a hard case for the P2 and the camera may be installed backwards to protect the optical window when not in use. It is a nice tripod mount design that has saved me a lot of work  I attach the pictures of the tripod mount before I grafted a cylinder onto its rear. I will also print the tripod adapter as originally designed as it will be very useful.

Fraser
 

[Fraser]

I just printed the parts to make my microscope adapter. They turned out pretty well and are fit for purpose. My poor old Up! Box has not been used for about 3 years and she fired up and printed these parts without any adjustments needing to be made. I love that machine I created a combined holder and cylinder design but then decided to print the two parts separately to facilitate experimentation with the cylinder part without needing to reprint the more complex holder each time. This approach also simplified the supporting structure, as in non was needed  These are just prototype parts but they will work fine for my review tests. The P2 holder is really nicely designed so credit to the designer, fellow forum member - Bostwickenator, for his skilful work 

No apologies for the lurid "Kermit" green ABS used for these prints... I have a lot of it in stock 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Bostwickinator also produced a P2 STL and I could not resist printing it as a test fit in the holder (no risk of damage to my P2) 

Looking at the holder design, I may need to tweek it slightly to permit fitting of the Infiray close up lens attachment.

[bostwickenator]

Thanks Fraser. Glad to see those designs being useful! Now that you mention it I think kermit green would help me stop losing my P2, I might have to do a reprint  .

[Fraser]

I have another mounting adaption for my P2 Microscope stand and it is currently being printed. Nothing amazing but an idea came to me last night so I am printing it to see if it is useful. Pictures to follow

I am still holding off on my Infiray P2 review as things have got a little tense on the Infiray front on this forum. Be assured, the review will come, but it must be very carefully crafted as I have no desire to be mistaken for an Infiray promoter or lackey !

Fraser

[Fraser]

Thanks to the versatility of the P2 camera tripod adapter that Bostwickinator designed, I was able to quickly create a ball joint mount for the microscope stand. It is just a reduced height cylinder with the required clearance hole for a 1/4" 20TPI camera mount screw in its end plate.
I also printed another P2 holder for it. The ball mount was one I had lying around but I think I have smaller ones hiding somewhere and I will likely change to one of those when found.

Why build a ball mount for the P2 ? Well why not    It does in fact have its uses. Sometimes you either cannot look directly down on a target or you wish to view the target at an angle to gain thermal information from a different plane. The Ball mount permits angled viewing through 90 degrees, from vertical to horizontal.

Fraser

[Fraser]

I am thinking of making a 'camera on a stick' as well. That would be a P2 adapter and mini ball mount attached to an extending pole plus a long USB cable to a host phone mounted on the handle of the extending pole. That solution would provide the ability to look at targets in false ceiling spaces or similar spaces like plenum chambers in HVAC.

Then there is the thermal borescope ! A miniature version of the 'camera on a stick' using the same principe but more compact for accessing challenging areas of car engine compartments of similar cluttered environs.

When you have a miniature thermal camera that just needs a USB cable to its host computer/phone, it opens up all manner of deployment options 

In the above use cases, the fixed focus of the P2 is a distinct advantage over its manual focus T2x series siblings. Focussing a camera that is remote from the user can be a royal pain in the backside.

Fraser

[EEVblog]

Infiray having big sook and how it's all just a big misunderstanding. LOL. Nope.

[cejoba]

 

[Fraser]

Not making excuses for Infiray but I can share that one thermal camera company I worked with did suffer from an over excited R&D tech who was so pleased about what they had produced that he effectively spammed this forum with positive comments on the unit. I had a word with the Sales manager of the company and he apologised. He confirmed that the individual responsible had acted alone and did not understand the damage he could do to the brand by his actions. He stopped posting here. Sometimes people in a company have great belief in the projects they have worked on and make the mistake of posting lots of positive comments or recommendations for their product. From their point of view it is a double win.... their product sells and people get a decent (in their eyes) product to use. This is where a company needs to have good guidance for their staff regarding advertising products and who may do so. It can easily get out of hand if done incorrectly

I am honestly sorry that Infiray have made a mistake as they have good products to offer the thermal imaging enthusiast. I have permission from Dave to review the P2 Pro and I will review any other cameras I am leant for review, provided it is on my strict terms and the review is kept completely "warts and all" honest  No product is perfect and honest reviews assist companies in improving the next generation of products.

More from me soon

Fraser

[chemary]

I have been looking for cheaper alternatives to InfiRay P2 Pro and made this list of products currently available on Aliexpress, as you can see they all share the same specs (probably all are based on Tiny1 core) and some of them even have the same case with different branding. It seems, as we have commented in other threads, that the mobile/PC applications from one brand may be used with modules from different brand.

Some of them have cheaper models with reduced temperature range or reduced resolution. I have asked in other threads, but nobody knows if those limitations could be hacked to unleash the full range/full resolution, it will be nice to save some bucks.
I don't put prices here because they change constantly, but the VICTOR VC328B and Mileseey TR256i are the cheaper ones (their variants with 160x120 resolution are even cheaper), the others are more expensive with a wide range of prices depending of the seller.

[Fraser]

Apologies for the delay in releasing the P2 Pro review. Life can get pretty busy and I just did not have the time to do the camera justice. The delay has meant that I have added some additional mounting accessories to my inventory though  More about that in the review 

Fraser

[Fraser]

I have been asked where I bought my P2 Pro from…… I did not buy my unit, it was sent to me by Infiray free of charge for testing. If buying an Infiray product, I recommend buying from a well known reputable seller who offers quality service and support. Christmas is coming and the scammers will be on the hunt for victims ! I personally would avoid some of the lesser known sellers, especially any offering significant (unrealistic) discounts compared to the average market price. Infiray are not offering deep trade discounts on these units at the moment. I have no connection with Infiray or any sellers of their products so cannot recommend any specific source for these dinky little cameras.

Fraser

[Fraser]

My latest purchase for the P2 Pro (I really am spoiling this camera with accessories  ) …..

I decided to buy a good quality mobile phone holder for use with a tripod or pistol grip. There are many plastic and metal types available but I chose this particular aluminium model because it is well designed and nicely made. I like that it includes cold shoe and 1/4” 20tpi mounting points as this makes it very versatile when using my phone with dongle cameras etc. The tripod mount point offers both sizes of screw mount plus Arca Swiss clamp compatibility. I can either have the P2 Pro mounted on the phones USB socket or mounted on the rear of this phone holder using the 3D printed camera holder and a short USB cable.

This mount is not inexpensive at £25 but quality costs and it will last a long time 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09TPDSLF8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Fraser

[deephaven]

I believe you bought some cheap phones to try it with. It would be handy to know which ones work so we can look out for a cheap one to use.

[Fraser]

I have tested the P2 Pro with the following phones and it works well with them all …..

Samsung Galaxy S5 Circa 2014 - Android 6 (Marshmallow) / UI Touchwiz
Samsung Galaxy A6 Circa 2018 - Android 10 (Q) /  One UI 2.0
Samsung Galaxy A8 Circa 2018 - Android 9 (Pie) / One UI 1.0
Samsung Galaxy S9+ Circa 2018 - Android 10 (Q) / One UI 2.5

The frame rate was fine on all of the above but clearly the S5, being an older phone, may be under greater recessing stress than the later, more powerful phones. Mike has advised that a Circa 2016 J5 worked but the frame rate was impacted. The J5 is not a very powerful phone.

The Samsung S9+ was bought with a network connection issue for £79 so was not exactly cheap but I wanted a mobile phone with decent processing power for this, and other tests. An underpowered phone for the P2 Pro test would be unfair to the manufacturer in a review scenario. The A8 is a decent phone with powerful processor and may be purchased at reasonable cost if you look for one with a minor fault. My A8 in “as new” working condition was £65. The A6 is worth consideration as it has a reasonable processor but go for the A8 if the option exists. The S5 is my old workhorse for testing dongle thermal cameras. It had a powerful processor for its day and the FLIR One G2 APP was developed with a Samsung S5 platform considered the ‘standard’. By modern standards the S5 may not be that powerful but my phone did work OK with the P2 Pro once I found a Micro USB to USB type C adapter cable that worked. I cannot recommend the S5 though as she is an old girl and the battery in mine is showing its age. You can likely buy a better used phone for your money now.

Fraser

[deephaven]

Thank you for a brilliant answer, I know exactly what to look for now. Just taken delivery of a T2S+ and I'm already most impressed with it.

[CyberCartel]

As requested I uploaded version 2.0.1 uti-260m here:https://filetransfer.io/data-package/XwgzbKY7#link. It has a critical bug in distance settings. Tested with Android 8,11 and 12.

However InfinRayGo and P2 app from Infinray works also with this device!
 Maybe the same sensor?

[Fivefold]

This is probably the best app for the P2 I have used yet. None are perfect however.

Infiray Go only has limited editing capabilities after the pictures are taken. No changing the colour palette, adding the scale only adds it in rainbow palette, regardless of the chosen one. If you make a picture with a visual picture-in-picture added it gets lost if you edit the image afterwards.

P2 Pro has a better UI but when changing measurement points/lines/rectangles later you get completely wrong values. Also loses any picture-in-pictures upon editing.

Uni-T's Thermal mobile probably has the best UI and even allows overlaying the visual picture instead of putting it into a corner. You can choose opacity and even move the visual picture in regards to the thermal one. Editing later works also, but High, Low and Center point measurements are unfortunately un-toggleable since they are set in the settings and these are inaccessible while editing. No changing the colour palette when editing either.
I should note that the current version on the play store (2.1.6) works fine with my P2.

I would love to have the option of setting max and min value of the displayed temperature range instead of autorange to make image comparisons with the same range. Seems to be fixed to autorange in all three apps.

[Fivefold]

On another note, I got a P2 with a slightly different case that I can't find any pictures of on the web. The sales listing was P2 and used the usual images with the blue ring and the little ridge along the edges. Mine only has slightly filleted edges and what seems to be a sticker insert with the infiray logo next to the lens. The box label lists "P2" as the model and "IRAIP2A0IR00" as the part number.

Edit: All specs seem to be the same otherwise, as expected. A little downside of the case is that, while metal it's either aluminium or some other non-ferromagnetic material. I was hoping of making my own magnet clip-on lenses with the commonly recommended CO2 Laser ZnSe lenses. Basically make the P2 pro accessory myself. Since magnet's won't work I will have to make a literal clip-on solution instead, like shown somewhere before in this thread.

[Fraser]

Fivefold,

Great feedback on the APPs. Thankyou 

I hope for a P2 compatible Windows Software in the future to enable use on a PC where, traditionally, there can be more image analysis features on a larger display.

Fraser

[CyberCartel]

Thanks for the app reviews! Very inspiring and insightful! However the 2.1.6 app in the Playstore is for uti-120 mobile, uti-720m, uti-721m. My app is for uti-120m, uti-260m. I tried the 2.1.6 app without the device and it also crashes in the distance settings. I will try it with the device but I think it doesn't recognize my device. I also think the uti app is faster and has better UI than the infinray apps. It's very surprising!