Infiray and their P2 Pro - discussion

[IwuzBornanerd]

What appears to be another Dongle camera using the Tiny1-x core

The Lodestar L2

https://www.tomtop.com/p-e21658.html

https://offpriceshop.com/product/lodestar-l2-usb-ir-thermal-imager-256x192-resolution-20170c-mobile-phone-type-c-plug-and-play-industrial-inspection-mini-infrared-camera-with-temperature-alarm-compatible-with-android

Hopefully the popularity of the Tiny1-x cores will lead to some decent software being developed for it by OEM's 

Fraser

I just came across what appears to be a "WeCopy" clone, or perhaps more likely, a simple re-branding of the Lodestar on Amazon; the TestHelper KCH-P2:

https://www.amazon.com/TestHelper-Ultra-Small-Professional-Smartphones-Resolution/dp/B091YCS54X/ref=sr_1_38?keywords=thermal+camera&qid=1669353378&refinements=p_76%3A1249158011&rnid=1249156011&rps=1&s=industrial&sr=1-38#customerReviews

[Fluvance]

Tomasis,

I have the Tiny1-c Windows SDK with the driver files if that is of interest to you for Topdon software modifications.

Fraser

Any chance it would be possible to get that SDK? Or a link where to find it? I just bought the Mileseey TR160i 160x120 camera with, presumably, the same Infiray sensor configured to a lower resolution. I'm hoping to get it working on my computer but no luck so far.


Interestingly, this Mileseey camera doesn't work with any other Android thermal app intended for Tiny1-c sensors. I read some people were able to use the P2 Pro with apps from other brands, so I was expecting the same to apply to this sensor. I can however use some apps intended for generic endoscope cameras. It shows the splitscreen input directly from the camera, a 160x120 black and white feed showing the thermal image, and a second 160x120 greenscale image showing what I expect is the raw temperature information in each pixel.

[chemary]

Interestingly, this Mileseey camera doesn't work with any other Android thermal app intended for Tiny1-c sensors. I read some people were able to use the P2 Pro with apps from other brands, so I was expecting the same to apply to this sensor. I can however use some apps intended for generic endoscope cameras. It shows the splitscreen input directly from the camera, a 160x120 black and white feed showing the thermal image, and a second 160x120 greenscale image showing what I expect is the raw temperature information in each pixel.

I have Victor 328B that is exactly the same that Mileseey (but the 256x192 pixels version) and when you connect with a generic camera app you see a 256x192 stream and a second image on top that maybe is the temperature information as you said or the extra pixels as I think Tiny1 gives more than 8 bits. I suppose the 160x128 camera has a different USB descriptor and that's why it can't be used with other apps, but have you tried the UNI-T app, it lets you choose the 256 or 160 version when the app is launched.
Probably unlocking the higher resolution would need a firmware update as the camera only presents 160x128  resolution.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I need to look into Windows drivers etc but certainly not 'Plug & Play' on a windows PC at the moment.

I just plugged the P2Pro into my Win7 PC and after short delay it seems to work fine as a webcam.

I've also had it running on a raspberry Pi, using MotionEye, configuring as a standard USB camera, so should work with any RasPi software that can talk to a USB camera ( and is happy with the slighly oddball 256x192 resolution)

[mikeselectricstuff]

Review & teardown :
https://youtu.be/YMQeXq1ujn0

[Fraser]

Nice review Mike 

I agree that this diminutive camera is great to have available in the lab. I have been using mine for a similar period of time as you and I must say I really like it. It is products like this that will really pose a threat to FLIR and Seek Thermal dongle type thermal cameras. I was pleasantly surprised by my units image quality and frame rate and thank you for testing the frame rate as that has saved me a job 

My Dianyang CA10 produces a very nice thermal image and that uses the larger Infiray S0 core that is very similar in size and appearance to a Seek Thermal Mosaic core. The S0 offers a larger lens and manual focus and it is to be found in the Infiray T2 series of camera dongles. For me, I would like to own both the P2 and a T2 as they are both strong performers and the fixed focus suits some applications but manual focus provides excellent sharp imaging in other scenarios. I discovered this when comparing my FLIR E4 with my E40….. the manual focus needs of the E40, with associated shallow depth of field, could actually be a bit annoying when imaging targets at differing distances. The fixed focus E4 just provided an acceptable image anywhere in its range of fixed focus, and it has a decent close focus specification. Your video review shows just how easily the P2 may be used for PCB analysis and its close focus without the Macro lens is impressive 

Like you I have been using my P2 instead of some of my larger cameras as it is just so convenient. I have lots of thermal cameras to choose from yet I used to grab my E40 (E60) or Hikvision DS-2TP31….. I now reach for the little P2 Pro if needing to do a quick thermal check. For PCB analysis I still use the Infiray S0 cored DYT CA10 (upgraded to CA20 spec) as that offers more capable software that runs on a PC.

Fraser

[scottc19]

Are the P2 and P2 Pro identical aside from the temperature range?  Or is there another difference I missed?

[deephaven]

I have my P2 Pro running on a Samsung A8 but having a problem. If I use the Xtherm infrared app it works fine. But, if I try to use the P2Pro app, it is asking to turn on the OTG function, strange if it works with the other app.

I've tried various Default USB configurations in the developer settings but none seem to make it work.

The phone is locked to a particular mobile phone company, would that be an issue?

[chemary]

I have my P2 Pro running on a Samsung A8 but having a problem. If I use the Xtherm infrared app it works fine. But, if I try to use the P2Pro app, it is asking to turn on the OTG function, strange if it works with the other app.

It happens some times to me, try to kill any other open app, disconnect the camera, then open P2 Pro app and when it says "Please plug in the device and turn on the OTG function" connect the camera, be sure to cancel any dialog saying if you want to open other app. If you accepted to always open an other app when you connect the camera, you have to go to Android settings remove it.

[deephaven]

I have my P2 Pro running on a Samsung A8 but having a problem. If I use the Xtherm infrared app it works fine. But, if I try to use the P2Pro app, it is asking to turn on the OTG function, strange if it works with the other app.

It happens some times to me, try to kill any other open app, disconnect the camera, then open P2 Pro app and when it says "Please plug in the device and turn on the OTG function" connect the camera, be sure to cancel any dialog saying if you want to open other app. If you accepted to always open an other app when you connect the camera, you have to go to Android settings remove it.

Thanks for the reply. I tried your ideas but nothing seems to stop the app requesting OTG be turned on.

[sofakng]

Hey guys... what's the difference between these different models?

I've ordered the TOPDON TC001 a few days ago ($175.95 shipped) after doing some research but I couldn't find too much information about it.  I can't imagine anything better in the price range and it seems like the Infiray P2 Pro uses the same chip?

[Fluvance]

Something that I found interesting was that the Topdon TC001 Android application has a firmware update function. When I plug in my Mileseey TR160i 160x120 camera, the Topdon app suggests a firmware update for it. I'm hesitant to try it as I don't want to brick my camera from being used with the original app and possibly any app at all. But... The TC001 is a 256x192 camera, so there's a slim chance that depending on what the firmware is for, it could hack my 160x120 camera, which uses the same Tiny1 sensor, to a 256x192 camera.

Anyone have any theories on that? I suppose it depends how the Tiny1 is being configured to run in a lower resolution and if the controller/USB interface chip is the same between brands.

[chemary]

Something that I found interesting was that the Topdon TC001 Android application has a firmware update function. When I plug in my Mileseey TR160i 160x120 camera, the Topdon app suggests a firmware update for it. I'm hesitant to try it as I don't want to brick my camera from being used with the original app and possibly any app at all. But... The TC001 is a 256x192 camera, so there's a slim chance that depending on what the firmware is for, it could hack my 160x120 camera, which uses the same Tiny1 sensor, to a 256x192 camera.

Anyone have any theories on that? I suppose it depends how the Tiny1 is being configured to run in a lower resolution and if the controller/USB interface chip is the same between brands.

As I commented earlier I have Victor 328B that is the same that Mileseey TR256i and when I connected to Topdon Android app it asked to update the firmware, I didn't do it because it was working fine and I didn't want to brick the device, but after trying some apps I suspect some of them automatically updated the firmware because now it says I have the latest version.

I decompiled the Topdon Android application and inside there are 2 files named `P2-256-V3.02-20220310.bin` and `P2-256-V3.03-20220402.bin` as you can see in the attached pictures the date and version correspond to the firmware that I have, so all points that they are the firmware files.There are no firmware for the 160 pixels version so maybe you are lucky and they can upgrade the camera to the 256 pixels version, in theory the hardware is the same.

Having said that if you update is your responsibility, it may work or it may not work or it may even brick your device, my recommendation is that if it works fine for you and you value it stay with the 160 pixels firmware, is better that that bricking it.

[Gareth79]

Finally got my P2 Pro ordered in the 11.11 sale. First impressions (using the Topdon app, which was the first that immediately worked) are that it's an impressive bit of kit. If they had a reliable/reputable resellers around the world, some side-by-side comparisons and some decent software then it should blow the western competition out of the water (or at least get some price reductions). They should get onto that rather than wasting time spamming enthusiast forums and selling direct on AliExpress, the product will sell itself.

edit: To add, I bought from the UNI-T store and received one with the silver case and a screen-printed white logo, not the style with the inset logo on a decal.

[Fraser]

A little update from me….

Like Mike, I have been testing the P2 Pro for a few weeks now and I am about to release the review that I have written.

Infiray released a new version of the APP on the 6th December and I loaded it today to see if some bugs had been fixed since my testing was completed.

To note: My September release of P2 Pro (1.0.5.220921) had some bugs that included …..

1. The APP sometimes not seeing the camera dongle and asking for it to be connected. The solution to this was to close down the P2 Pro completely and erase it from the APP history page in Android (three horizontal bar icon on desktop). The P2 Pro APP would then work correctly if manually started or the camera plugged in to initiate an auto run of the APP. I had this issue with the Samsung A6, A8 and S9 Plus phones.

2. On the Samsung S9 Plus, when switching to the Wide range (High temperature) mode, the displayed spot temperatures were all over 800 Celsius even when viewing a 20C target. No solution was discovered during testing. The A8 phone did not suffer from this issue.

The new release of the P2 Pro APP dated 6 December 2022 has fixed the temperature measurement error in the high temperature range on the Samsung S9 Plus. Sadly a new issue has appeared though. When selecting the P2 Pro APP icon the phone reports that the APP is not installed. Plugging the camera dongle into the phone initiates the starting of the P2 Pro APP and all works normally. Trying to start the APP with the camera plugged in still returns the "APP not found" error. Hopefully a fix will be released soon. This fault is present on my Samsung A6, A8, S9 and also my Motorola G5 so it is not a “Samsung issue”.

I have yet to test the new release properly but it still appears to have the issue of not always seeing the camera dongle and needing the history entry to be deleted before it will work again.

Fraser

[Fraser]

The P2 Pro review is complete 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-infiray-p2-pro-thermal-camera-dongle-for-android-mobile-phones/

I intend to add to it over time but this is the core documents set.

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

They're sending me a T2S to look at - as far as I can tell trom the website, it's basically the same as the P2 but with an adjustable lens, which should be more convenient.

[Fraser]

Mike,

The T2S will contain the Infiray S0 core that is also used in my DYT CA-10 Thermal PCB Analyzer 

https://www.infiray.com/products/s0-series-long-wave-infrared-sensor-module.html

My CA-10 review with lots of pictures…..

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-dianyang-technology-ca10-circuit-board-thermal-analyzer-repair-rd/

It is a bit like Infiray’s answer to the Seek Thermal Mosaic.

Fraser

[Fraser]

A new P2 Pro APP version dated 14 December 2022 has been released on the play store. It addresses the issue of the APP icon failing to start the APP and makes recognition of the camera being connected more reliable.

Fraser

[cmpxchg]

Has anyone had issues with the thermal image just hanging? I'm getting rather frustrated with this device - it seems extremely picky about which devices it will run on at all, it doesn't work on my Motorola smartphone, I tried a Xiaomi from a friend and it wouldn't run either (just stuck at the OTG screen). I've now got a Samsung tablet and it shows an image for a second or two, then just hangs (until restarting the app, at which point it shows a picture again for a second).

Connecting it to a Windows computer it works just fine (with the occasional stutter in the framerate, however), but that's not exactly how I imagined using this.

[tjhowse]

I've found pretty severe JPEG compression artifacts affect the images captured from the P2 Pro using the "P2 Pro" app from the google play store. Does anyone have a recommendation for alternative android-based software, or a setting I've missed in the "P2 Pro" app? I'd get better image quality if I took a screenshot via the OS, as compared to using the built-in image capture. Toggling the "Improve image quality" setting doesn't appear to affect anything.

The resolution is fine, the images come out at around 350kB, 1440x1080x24, but the image quality is pretty ragged. It's especially obvious around the overlay text, there is a fuzziness about it that has nothing to do with the comparatively low-res thermal sensor.

[Fraser]

tjhowse,

I agree, the images that are saved do not do justice to those seen on the phones display as a live image. Sadly the are no options for the user to change compressions levels in the P2 Pro App. The image quality control acts on the algorithm that is in the image processing algorithm and not the image save process. I saw little difference between the image quality enhancement being on or off.

There are other APP that work with the P2 Pro as, thankfully, the Tiny1 core is used in several other cameras.If the Vid and PId are the same, the other manufacturers software will often work with ten P2 Pro and even supports the high temperature range.

Take a look at the TOPDON TC001. It has Android and Windows software that may be downloaded from the TOPDON web site. Sadly the Uni-T UTi720M app will not recognise my P2 Pro which is a pity. Infiray have another Android App called “Go” that was for the P2 standard model but it still has the Pro option switch. I suspect saved image compression will be the same however.

It would be good to identify sources of alternative Apps for the P2 Pro so that the best ones may be used for a particular application.

Fraser

[tjhowse]

Fraser,

Thanks for the wisdom. Shortly after posting I found Chemary's post here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/infiray-p2-application/ that lists a few other options too. I've since boxed the camera back up, since it was nominally a christmas present. <_<

I'll look at alternative softwares on christmas morning and report my findings.

Cheers,
Travis.

[oliv3r]

Hey all,

Without trying to derail this thread too much I am curious why there's no mention of the T3 smartphone modules? They have better specs (focal distance might be different? But yes, cost a little bit more. Are they so new that this hasn't come up yet? Or they a bit older already?

Speaking of T3/T2, I suppose the biggest differences between the T and the P series is the target market? T for 'outdoorsy things' and P for professional use? Idk. I see that the T's are sold in kit form with one of those 'gun-type' holders, though on ali express that doesn't seem to be the case?

So am I missing something obvious, or is this discussion entirely price driven? Or do we wait for a P3pro :p

P.S. just noticed that on AE they also now list an iOS version, for those that care

[katzenhai2]

[...]
Are they so new that this hasn't come up yet? Or they a bit older already?

Speaking of T3/T2, I suppose the biggest differences between the T and the P series is the target market? T for 'outdoorsy things' and P for professional use? Idk. I see that the T's are sold in kit form with one of those 'gun-type' holders, though on ali express that doesn't seem to be the case?[...]

T3 is marketed since 2019, so yes its a bit older (see older threads here by using the search function).
There are outdoor versions of the "T" devices but I think that depends on the used lens.