Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review

[littleboot]

Hi, thank you for posting this, I have been looking around for a thermal camera, this one in particular was of my interest as well, I have been searching and searching in Aliexpress and youtube for more information about this camera, you said is the C210 but in  your link it goes to a C200? it is the same camera? I am still debating between this one and the Seek thermal compactPro.
InfiRay seems to have some impressive phone adapters camera as well, but the lack of reviews and info and no iphone connection, made me not consider them. some adapters are close to $1000!
I need it for motherboard electronic repairs, how do you attach the macro lens that you put the link in your review? the 20mm fl 50.8?

Hey, I have checked and I See they have changed it to C200 instead of C210. (I believe the C200 does not have USB video recording feature but is the same otherwise).
I'm not sure, maybe the C200 and C210 are the same now. looking at some other aliexpress listings I read "Please note ：C210 is a new upgraded model of C200" but they are listed as the same.

I have attached a screen shot of my order to this post

[littleboot]

My macro lens has arrived.

Lens: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32241074105.html
Diameter: 20mm
Focal Length: 50.8mm

I attached some images.

Also posted the build of my lens holder here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/make:968854

Thank you for creating the lens holder!, I will 3D print one for myself. Very nice design using the rubber bands

I'm running the software on Windows 10 without any problems. The installers and portable version I use are available on my file drive.

[littleboot]

Thank you BrotherStapol for your input and  the software link,  the pdf manual, this is very helpful to take a look at the functions of this camera, reading your comments  , more and more I am thinking to hit the bullet and buy the camera , sorry , didn't realize the link was bad, that is the one that only the lens gave me, but here is another one, this is for the camera Hikvision H10, there you can buy only the camera or the camera plus the macro lens, if you go down a little bit, after AM INSTRUMENT STORE. You can click to see only the lens and the mount it is $59
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001422640955.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.5c732e0esBln8y
The shape and holes are for the h10, maybe you can design one for the c210?.
decisions, decisions.....c210 looks good and $135 cheaper than the seek compact Pro
Does the c210 allows you to see a short on let's say laptop motherboard ? 25 hz and the resolution is enough to see a short creating heat in real time?

Yes it should be possible to use it to find a short in real time, especially with an addition lens like I have used. (you can see the real time performance when watching the video of the thermal camera on my filedrive)

[bingo600]

Arrghhhh   
This forum did it again

I had to .... Your fault ....

One C210 + "Lens" on the way from Ali.

Btw: The below link is dead

Also, I contacted Infiray about the software(forgot about the link in this post!) and the English manual. They send me this link, which looks to be a slightly newer version of the software:(v115)
http://yunpan.raytrontek.com/l/dFlBRO

I don't have a 3-D printer ... Anyone in DK/EU could print me a Lens holder ??
See
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/infiray-c210-thermal-camera-review/msg3698872/#msg3698872


/Bingo

[dl6lr]

I don't have a 3-D printer ... Anyone in DK/EU could print me a Lens holder ??
/Bingo

If noone from Denmark is available, can try to do so. Would print it in PLA and TPU, as suggested in Thingiverse. Stock material: PLA could be black, white or grey, TPU is transparent. I have no possibility to test it as I don't have a C200 (yet). PM me if you are interested.

[bingo600]

I got my C210 today   
My first IR Cam 

Thank you to dl6lr for offering me to print an adapter , that is so nice of him

/Bingo

[BrotherEstapol]

Also, I contacted Infiray about the software(forgot about the link in this post!) and the English manual. They send me this link, which looks to be a slightly newer version of the software:(v115)
http://yunpan.raytrontek.com/l/dFlBRO

...and the attached PDF manual.

So turns out that URL is now dead,(thanks to SamHeat for telling me!) so I've uploaded what I have to a shared folder on my google drive:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12WsdT_dUAeV2kSs8V12o6eUM0w5Voa8v?usp=sharing

You should be able to see 2 versions of the software installer and a manual in the subfolder, as well as a PDF for the camera itself in the root directory.

Hope this helps someone!

[bostwickenator]

These images are looking amazing especially at the price point. I've just put in an order for an Infiray camera based on the same core. I think it's fair to say Infiray has put some serious competition to the US companies. This isn't surprising given their much larger market potential and lack of regulation. With suppliers like this in the market I wonder if US companies (eg Seek) will lobby for changes to US export regs.

[Hydron]

Thanks for the info, hopefully these become available on platforms other than aliexpress - it's fine for personal purchases but is a harder sell for work (price is probably good enough to convince them to get one for general use, without an urgent need).

[litchiate]

I made a slidable lens holder for it.

ZeSe lense, Diameter: 12mm, Focal Length: 50.8mm.

refer
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5137854

[jairbj]

The last version of the software is V1.16 and can be downloaded at:

https://www.iraytek.com/service/down-detail-10.htm

[NiallxD]

Great post!

I’m looking at one of these myself and wondered if you could answer a question for me…is it possible to get plain images out of this, without all the information? Thinking for creating panoramic photos.

Thanks,

Niall

[illiac4]

Hi.

You have not included the lens holder just the base.

TNX

[Bill W]

spec >> https://www.infiray.com/P2.html
Focal Length 3.2mm
F1.1
FOV 56x42

InfiRay techsup told me that the shining metal cover is the germanium lens.

The P2 Mini has a long focal length and requires a macro lens for close-up works. 

I also wonder how to choose a macro lens for it, particular a right focal length. 



Calculating Camera Sensor Resolution and Lens Focal Length


Lens Focal Length

Due to the large germanium lens, I wonder what size the sensor actually is. 

You are making, and being given, some false assumptions that are not helping your understanding.

1 - The lens is not the shiny flat metal circle.  That will be a cover / weather seal.
The lens must be about 3 mm diameter, due to focal length and f number given.  It will also not be flat on the front, I'd expect something like the FLIR-One picture you show.

2 - With a 3.2mm fl lens and a 56 deg horizontal field of view the sensor active area would be 3.2mm x 2.4mm.  That, within rounding, matches the published specification (256 x 192 pixels with 12µm pixels = 3.1 x 2.3 mm).

3 - The P2 mini has a *short* focal length, and so a wide field of view.  What you have observed is that it is focussed at infinity (or at least a few metres), hence a problem viewing up close.

[Fraser]

Redbook,

If you were to dismantle your P2 I would expect you to find the Infiray Tiny1 core behind the lens protection window.

Look here for details of the core. The P2 has a close focus capability of around 10cm minimum. The T2L uses the larger S0 core that offers manual focus. For me, I would choose the T2L for PCB work, but the P2 is also very capable and offers a 25 frames per second refresh rate 

https://www.infiray.com/tiny1thermalmodule.html

Fraser

[redbook]

I accidentally removed my post on 17 Nov.  May I post it here again. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

I just received my P2 Mini camera, and it is fantastic. 



spec >> https://www.infiray.com/P2.html
Focal Length 3.2mm
F1.1
FOV 56x42

InfiRay techsup told me that the shining metal cover is the germanium lens.

The P2 Mini has a long focal length and requires a macro lens for close-up works. 

I also wonder how to choose a macro lens for it, particular a right focal length. 



Calculating Camera Sensor Resolution and Lens Focal Length


Lens Focal Length

Due to the large germanium lens, I wonder what size the sensor actually is. 

Is it similar to the Lepton module ?  SystemPlus Publishes FLIR Lepton Reverse Engineering



I came across the following DIY macro lens.  It looks very good but there is no information about the lens.

https://youtu.be/YOTNMfkEblw

Thank you,

PS Attached are sample images taken, on the Solar Edge Inverter and stuffs inside a room.

[redbook]

Thank you very much, Fraser & Bill.   

Oh.  It's a version of the Tiny T1 module.  This was what I suspected initially. 

I wonder why the P2 designer put a large germanium window in front of the module.  Could it be smaller ?

If the Tiny T1 module has a lens of 3-4mm diameter, then a macro lens of 10mm in size would be enough ?

I came across a DIY macro lens for the HTI-20, photos attached. 

Photos from customer feedbacks.
https://aliexpress.com/item/32234326702.html

[Fraser]

That lens mount looks to be an adapted mobile phone supplemental lens mount. The ZnSe lens has been mounted in the area where a lens is normally screwed in. I have bought many such mobile phone lens sets t the clip spring appears very strong so I am nervous of using such on anything that could not stand the pressure. Mu concern with the P2 would be whether squeezing it would gamage the front window. Regarding that front window, it is unlikely to be Germanium. More likely Chalcogenide IR glass or even thin silicon with appropriate AR coating. I do not know how thick it is and how much pressure it would tolerate before fracturing. The large window area could be due to the wife field of view vs position of the imaging core lens behind the window or it could be purely aesthetic for marketing purposes to give the appearance of a much merger ‘lens’ than competitors.

I detailed clip on supplemental lens mounts in my UTi80P thread and will add a link below. An adaption of the ‘microscope stand’ holder fir the P2 would be the way I would go for a lens holder.

Fraser

UTi80P thread….

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/cheap-new-basic-thermal-camera-on-ebay-multicomp-uni-t/

[Fraser]

In case it is of interest, I found a 3D printable tripod mount for the P2. Useful for mounting on a gooseneck desk mount like the one I used on the UTi80P/Multicomp camera

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/gadget/infiray-p2

Fraser

[redbook]

Regarding that front window, it is unlikely to be Germanium. More likely Chalcogenide IR glass or even thin silicon with appropriate AR coating.

Thank you very much.



Chalcogenide glasses and glass-ceramics: Transparent materials in the infrared for dual applications (2016) link

[frankvh2]

Getting us back on the C210 track....

The latest software link that was posted, v1.16.  My Chinese is very limited    I ended up with a download named "DeliveryTool". Is that correct?

Thanks.

[wavepax]

Yesterday I installed the Infiray Thermographic Analysis Software on a Windows 7 x64 PC and a Windows 10 PC.   For Windows 7, I received an error message.   I sent the below email yesterday and received a reply today that fixed the error.   Attached is a dll file needed to fix the error.   No error when installing on a Windows 10 PC, but the interface comes up in Mandarin.   Clicking the globalT icon at the top gives the option to switch to English.

By the way, seeing the spirit of others helping each other in this thread inspired me to register and post here to inform and help others.   This is my ZeroPoster electrical engineer Internet good deed for the day.

Before seeing this thread, I ordered a C200 along with 10cm focal length lens from the same place that you all linked to in this thread.   That focal length, along with the field of view of the C200, is good enough to put all the pixels on a 10cm x 10cm circuit all at once into focus.   

I've been waiting decades for an affordable thermal camera with good enough microbolimeter array resolution -- spatially (256×192 pixels), temperature (0.1C) and time (25 Hz frame rate) wise along with a dynamic temperature range of -20C to 550C (over two different gain settings).   THE NETD (noise equivalent temperature difference) is < 40mK.   Shipped to my door in the US, it was USD$298.    The C200 Pro has the same specs except better temperature resolution (0.04C) and timed photography.   I didn't see the C200 Pro price anywhere on Dec 15, 2021.   Perhaps it is sold on taubau, which pretty much restricts sales to China-phoned people, and the website is in Mandarin, requiring a Google translation.   

The next step up in spatial resolution, the M300, was priced at USD$3200 on Dec 15, 2021 and has 384x288 thermal pixels, variable focus to 10cm, slightly larger screen, but the same temperature resolution as the C200 (0.1C).  The T3S, a smartphone addon thermal camera, has 384x288 thermal pixel resolution and costs USD$800 + tax.

In addition to detecting shorts and failed components on a PCB (printed circuit board), the C200 is useful to detect gas leaks, like in the exhaust gas piping in a vehicle.   The C200 is good enough to see if insulation was installed correctly in the walls of houses and buildings.   Pointing the C200 at the ceilings and walls of my house shows the lower ceiling temperatures at the framing compared to the insulation between the framing.   Youtube has videos of the C200 being used to detect people and animals at night.   Latent hand print heat is easily detected as long as you have enough pixels to resolve at the viewing distance.

Be careful about some of the rebranded models on ebay.   Some look like the above C200, but actually are a C200K which restricts the temperature range to human skin surface temperature ranges and is designed to detect elevated temperature from an infection.

I am amazed that uncooled microbolimeter arrays can have such good temperature resolution.   Perhaps Dave can look into the physics and engineering and create a video explaining how these uncooled microbolimeter arrays achieve such low temperature resolution at low noise.   I'm guessing that they integrate in time to help lower the thermal noise.

________________________email

After installing any of the below versions of the Thermographic Analysis Software on my Windows 7 x64 PC,

IRPT_TAS_V114
IRPT_TAS_V115
IRPT_TAS_V116


I run the program

IRPT_TAS which links to "C:\Program Files (x86)\IRTools\IRPT_TAS_V116\IRay Camera Controller.exe"


and I receive the following error:

"The procedure entry point clReleaseDevice could not be located in the dynamic link library OpenCL.dll"

I get the same error message no matter which version of the software I install.

Please advise how to fix this.   I was able to install the same software on a Windows 10 machine, but I need it to run on a Windows 7 x64 PC.


_________________________ Reply email

Sorry for the trouble caused to you. I sent you a opencl.dll file ,please copy it to the IRPT root path.

Please find the attached file for your reference.

if have any other questions,please let me know.

best regards,
--------------
Martin                                                     
Technical Support Department                           

_________________________ My reply

Per your instructions, I placed the OpenCL.dll file into the IRPT root path.   The software now runs.   The interface was in Mandarin, but I clicked on the globeT icon at the top, and it had an option to switch to English.

When I exited the app, I received the following error:

"IRay Camera Controller.exe - Fatal Application Exit
Fatal Error"

After I closed the error message popup dialogue, the app seemed to close.  Please advise how to eliminate this error message.

[Bill W]

I am amazed that uncooled microbolimeter arrays can have such good temperature resolution.   Perhaps Dave can look into the physics and engineering and create a video explaining how these uncooled microbolimeter arrays achieve such low temperature resolution at low noise.   I'm guessing that they integrate in time to help lower the thermal noise.

Temperature resolution and NETD are not the same.  A still frame can have quite high noise - ie standard deviation of data maybe 400mK.
Spot temperature readouts will certainly be averaged over at least 1 second - 25 frames - more likely 32 or 64 for computing simplicity.

Essentially each pixel is a thermistor hanging in a vacuum on thin legs.  The material might be silicon (A-Si) or Vanadium oxide (VOx).
VOx has a better response (resistance change per temperature change) but was less favoured for processing reasons so A-Si is still going with some suppliers.  All things being equal a VOx should be a better image, but the gains are usually spent on cheapening other parts like lenses or the detector pixel size.

When you focus a thermal scene on the pixels they change temperature very slightly, and so change resistance.
Each one is in turn connected to an R-C integrator opamp for one TV line, fed from a bias voltage and the resultant voltage that accumulates is read out, typically by a 14 bit ADC.

The difficulties are that the 'thermistors' are far from identical, nor are the R-C integrator op-amps, so there is a lot of fixed pattern with relatively little scene (more scene in a VOx than an A-Si).
That is where calibrations and some frame-level maths comes in.
Noise mainly comes from the sensor bias(es), the ADC biases, and the ADC quantisation.  There may also be some worse quantisation later on in the image maths, and in the display side.  However once displayed at video rates you have the human eye-brain averager working for you.


Bill

[jmw]

Thinking of ordering one of these off Aliexpress for general use. Anyone know why UNI-T is selling a competitor's product through their store at a huge discount to the "official" price?

[JacquesBBB]

My macro lens has arrived.

Lens: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32241074105.html
Diameter: 20mm
Focal Length: 50.8mm

I attached some images.

Also posted the build of my lens holder here:
https://www.thingiverse.com/make:968854

Thank you for creating the lens holder!, I will 3D print one for myself. Very nice design using the rubber bands

Just to correct  some possible misunderstanding : jairbj did not create the model. He just printed it  and posted his print. He properly refers to the original
model https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4901923 . It happens that I am the proud creator of this masterpiece, including the rubber bands holders