Author Topic: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review  (Read 49500 times)

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Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #125 on: May 27, 2024, 05:15:12 pm »
Potential causes of regular FFC events rather than normal infrequent events

1. Failure or instability of the ambient temperature measuring circuit - this causes measurement errors as well.
2. Failure or instability in the microbolometer die temperature measuring circuit - this causes measurement errors as well.
3. Failure in the FFC flag drive circuit causing uncommanded FFC flag operations - this may, or may not, effect measurement accuracy depending upon the exact nature of the failure in the drive circuit.
4. Noise on a power supply rail that feeds the sensitive A to D circuits used in the camera. Such noise may create poor interpretation of analogue sensor inputs, such as temperature sensors. Depending upon the power supply suffering noise, this may cause image noise effects on the camera display. Cameras use several DC-DC converters and failures in the MLCC output capacitors are a possibility, causing high ripple on the related output supply voltage.
5. Firmware issue - unlikely in this case as the camera was working and then failed.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 06:08:55 pm by Fraser »
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Offline duzycinek

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #126 on: May 27, 2024, 07:49:57 pm »
Thank you so much, I will check and post results :)
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #127 on: May 27, 2024, 08:33:45 pm »
It is always worth opening the camera and disassembling it for visual inspection to check for obvious issues such as corrosion but this also enables you to deliberately disturb the various ribbon cable connections and remake them as you reassemble the camera. Poorly seated Flat Flex Cables can cause all manner of weird symptoms as connections can become poor or intermittent. In your case, it is the Flat Flex Cable between the main PCBA and the microbolometer PCBA that is a possible point of failure as many important signals carried on that cable. A poor connection on it could cause havoc.

Fraser
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 08:40:08 pm by Fraser »
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Offline duzycinek

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #128 on: May 29, 2024, 04:39:21 pm »
Hello, I made measurments, all looks good. 98 for boiling water, 34 for hand, and object is about 2 degree warmer in reality. I noticed that after about 15 mins of using camera, calibration interval is like 30 secs, and it is increasing.
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #129 on: May 29, 2024, 06:21:28 pm »
Interesting.

The results of your test show that the camera is ‘aware’ of the temperature surrounding its microbolometer and the temperature of the microbolometer die. Sadly this is not great news as it eliminates the easily diagnosed issues that could be causing the symptoms that you are seeing :(

Some background on what happens when a microbolometer based thermal camera first starts. It is simplified but will give you an idea of what is happening and why.

1. The camera carries out a self test
2. The contents of the Flash memory are loaded into RAM
3. The camera starts its thermal imaging program and sub systems.
4. The temperature of the microbolometer die, and any Delta T associated with it, is measured
5. The ambient temperature within the camera is measured.
6. An FFC event is initiated to create a flat field image correction and to measure the FFC flag in order  to self calibrate the measurement system.
7. A Delta T in the microbolometer die temperature is detected and once it crosses a set limit, another FFC is initiated to both create a flat field correction and reset the measurement calibration offset using the FFC flag temperature. (using the ambient temperature as the source of the FFC flag temperature)
8. Another Delta T in the microbolometer die temperature is detected and the above process is repeated. This process repeats until the microbolometer die temperature reaches thermal equilibrium (in a non-temperature controlled microbolometer system). Once the microbolometer die reaches thermal equilibrium (internally generated heat energy is equal to that lost to ambient via conduction, radiation and convection (though convection is limited by the vacuum within the microbolometer module) the Delta T reduces to a point where no FFC event is required for some time. Temperature drift in the microbolometer die will occur and an FFC event will be triggered based on a detected excessive drift in the pixel temperatures, die temperature or change in ambient temperature. The camera will also carry out a routine FFC event to correct for minor pixel drift and measurement calibration. The routine FFC event is usually set to around 120 second intervals to ensure a decent image and measurement accuracy. The well known exception to this is the SEEK Thermal thermal imaging core that needs to carry out an FFC every few seconds in order to combat thermal instability in its microbolometer die. I know of no other thermal imaging core that requires such regular FFC  events, except upon initial power on whilst the microbolometer is warming up.

So from the above you will see that the bahaviour of your camera is anything but normal. Thermal equilibrium in a modern non-temperature stabilised microbolometer is normally achieved within 2 to 5 minutes and the FFC events become much less frequent after less than a minute. Your camera appears to be behaving as though it is suffering from a significant Delta T in the microbolometer die that continues long after it should have decreased due to thermal equilibrium being achieved.

If we consider the thermal stability of a modern microbolometer we may discover a clue as to what is happening in your camera. In most modern budget microbolometer based thermal cameras there is no Peltier temperature stabilisation of the microbolometer die, even if such is provisioned in the microbolometer module. A Peltier temperature stabiliser is a nice enhancement to a microbolometer thermal camera but it comes at the cost of increased system power consumption as Peltier modules are power hungry. Most  budget cameras operate in thermal equilibrium mode, as detailed above. It is important to employ enough thermal mass in the microbolometer to provide decent short term thermal stability, even if not stabilised at a fixed temperature. To achieve adequate thermal mass in the system, it is not uncommon to mount a large metal heatsink to the rear of the microbolometer module. The addition of the heatsink also helps to dissipate the heat being produced within the Read Out IC that is integrated into the microbolometer module. This is important as the enemy of the microbolometer is excessive local heating that can thermally contaminate the pixel array. If the heatsink becomes separated from the microbolometer it could cause temperature instability in the microbolometer and potentially create a situation where the FFC sub system is having to cope with excessive Delta T in the microbolometer die. Whilst the regular FFC events will try to maintain measurement accuracy through recalibration using the FFC flag temperature, there will, of course, be frequent undesirable FFC events for the user.

I suggest you dismantle your camera and visually inspect it for problems around the microbolometer PCBA area.

If there is not a problem with the heatsink coupling to the microbolometer, you are faced with the unwelcome possibility of a fault causing localised heating of the microbolometer die.

Fraser


« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 11:25:01 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #130 on: May 30, 2024, 03:26:34 pm »
Having thought about this some more. I would also want to check all of the cameras power supply rails with an oscilloscope to ensure that there is not a problem in that part of the system. Power supplies are notorious for causing unusual bahaviour in microprocessor systems and should always be investigated for issues. The DC-DC converters will be easily identifiable in the camera on the main and microbolometer PCBA’s Why does the situation improve with time ? Good question ….. failures in power supplies can be influenced by temperature so warming up can sometimes change the fault behaviour.. well worth investigation.

Fraser
« Last Edit: May 30, 2024, 07:27:56 pm by Fraser »
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Offline duzycinek

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #131 on: May 31, 2024, 11:58:32 am »
Hello, thank you so much for your help. I am trying to figure out what is happening. I will post my results :)
 

Offline duzycinek

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #132 on: May 31, 2024, 09:10:07 pm »
I did some progress. I found nothing suspisious after visual inspection on pcb, but I found out that microbolometer is powered by 2.1v after turning on camera. Voltage is decreasing by the time, at about 20 mins it is about 1.9V and then calibration interval is about 90 secs. So if voltage is lower, interval is higher, it is proportional. Sadly I can't figure out from where this voltage is comming from, I can't measure it by continuity (no beeps). I replaced thermal pads into high quality thermal putty, but nothing changed. Adding some photos.
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #133 on: May 31, 2024, 09:54:47 pm »
Where are you measuring the power supply to the microbolometer ?

I would have expected a 3.3V supply to the digital circuits of the microbolometer

The PCB is very similar to that of the UNIT UTI-260B topology. It is worth looking at the PCB behind the LCD panel as that has power supply test points detailed in the UTi260B and yours may have similar. If not, I can probably work out which DC-DC converters are which from pictures of the PCB. I can already see the Lithium battery charger IC and main 3.3V boost-buck converter IC on your pictures. There will likely be some DC-DC converters on the microbolometer PCBA onto which the Tiny1C module connects.

Fraser
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 10:32:27 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #134 on: May 31, 2024, 10:04:30 pm »
In case it helps, here is a post from the UTi260B thread where I detailed the various voltages and associated DC-DC converter IC’s used in that camera. Whilst the IC PCB numbering may differ, you may wel, find that the same voltages are present on your PCB from the same part number IC’s  :-+

UTi690B/290B supply rails and their sources

Uni-T helpfully provide annotated test points for all of these voltages on their PCB's.

Main PCB

3V3 from U6 63025P
1V2 from U7 PD5Q
5V0 from U9 SF9B
1V35 from U8 PD5Q

Imaging cores PCB

1V8 from U2 PD5Q
2V8 from U3 NL

Fraser
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #135 on: May 31, 2024, 10:08:35 pm »
Also from my posts on the UTi260B thread……

The UTi690B/290B Chipset identities

D9SHD - MT41K256M16TW-107 - 4Gb DDR3 SRAM
MCIMX6Y0CVM08AB - NXP i.MX-6ULL Application Processor with ARM CORTEX A7
NL - TLV700XX - 2V8 200mA LDO Regulator
P8563 - PCF8563 - Real Time Clock
PD5Q (U7) - TPS62087 - 1V2 3A step down converter
PD5Q (U8) - TPS62087 - 1.35V 3A step down converter
PD5Q (U2) - TPS62087 - 1v8 3A step down converter
SF9B - LMR64010 - 5V0 1A step up simple switcher voltage regulator
AVC16245 - SN74AVC16245 - 16bit tri-state bus transceiver
THGBMNG5D1LBAIL - 4GB e-MMC flash memory module
TP5000 - 2A switching single Lithium Cell Charger
63025P - TPS630250 - 3V3 2A variable output buck-boost converter
V5L -  :-// Not identified at this time. There are several of these on the PCB so likely provides simple functionality

UPDATE: V5L looks to be a 5V rail (6V breakdown) Transient Voltage Suppressor, namely the "Way On" WE05-4RVLC
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #136 on: May 31, 2024, 10:20:44 pm »
The UTi690B teardown images may assist you in cross referencing the functions of the various IC’s found on the PCB’s. The UTi260B and UTi690B share the same hardware platform. Whilst your cameras PCB does differ in layout, I suspect the components used for the power supplies will be the same or very similar.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/uti690b-teardown/

PCB pictures credit : Wi_Zeus.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 10:23:58 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #137 on: May 31, 2024, 10:36:04 pm »
Regarding a changing voltage on a supply rail…… look up the associated data sheet for the LDO or DC-DC converter that provides that power supply rail. If the change in output voltage exceeds the datasheet specification, consider that LDO or DC-DC converter worthy of further investigation. Modern DC-DC converters and LDO’s are normally pretty good when it comes to output regulation.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 10:37:44 pm by Fraser »
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Offline duzycinek

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #138 on: May 31, 2024, 11:15:58 pm »
I was measuring voltage to gnd on flex from photo. Is not this power rail of ir sensor?. Did not measure yet 3.3v, 2.8v, 1.8v rails.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 11:23:42 pm by duzycinek »
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #139 on: May 31, 2024, 11:44:04 pm »
The pictured Flat Flex cable is for the FFC flag solenoid and possibly a temperature sensor. It is not the main supply rail to the Tiny1C camera core.
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Offline duzycinek

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #140 on: June 01, 2024, 04:26:50 pm »
I did some measurments. No good news. Voltages at start:
Main pcb:
Memory bat: 2.88v
Bat: 3.58v
L1: 3.18v
L2: 1.20v
L3: 1.36v
Sensor pcb:
3.3v: 3.23v
2.8v: 2.79v
1.8v: 1.88v

After 20 mins:
Main pcb:
Memory bat: 2.88v
Bat: 3.55v
L1: 3.20v
L2: 1.19v
L3: 1.36v
Sensor pcb:
3.3v: 3.23v
2.8v: 2.79v
1.8v: 1.88v

They are almost same. Only one voltage is changing, this one on flex.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 04:29:10 pm by duzycinek »
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #141 on: June 01, 2024, 05:00:37 pm »
Sadly I cannot suggest much more in the way of simple tests for you to carry out. I usually diagnose such faults on the test bench with tests and analysis of what is happening and why. I would certainly be looking at the temperature monitoring sensor outputs to see if they are triggering spurious FFC events. With regret, you have a fault that I cannot diagnose remotely.

Firmware issue ? Whilst you could try a firmware update as a last resort (the hardware appears stable enough for this to be safe), I doubt that this is a firmware corruption issue as that is normally more harmful to the operation of the camera.

Fraser
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Offline duzycinek

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #142 on: June 01, 2024, 05:32:25 pm »
I got 1.1.6 version of firmware, asked infiray for newer but they will not help me. I heard that I can flash Uni-t firmware but I got no experience with flashing, so I would need tutorial.
 

Offline duzycinek

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Re: Infiray C210 Thermal Camera review
« Reply #143 on: June 04, 2024, 02:29:19 pm »
Hello, according to this video, it looks like it is firmware issue? Other person on video has also low interval. https://youtu.be/DIxhhA6T6ok?si=jLgcylIykTDvK7ID&t=1605
 


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