Infiray V2 cameras not as good as V1 models ???

[Fraser]

I am hearing and reading reports of new release V2 cameras coming out of Infiray not performing as well as the original V1 models. These reports comment on image noise levels and general image quality. I own a P2 Pro V1 and T2 Pro V1 and I am satisfied with the imaging performance of both of those cameras considering their intended market segment. The T2 Pro has a very nice enhanced range capability and even performs well in PCB inspection applications. Infiray have always claimed that they had an advantage over other core manufacturers as they used their “own” dedicated and carefully “tuned” ASIC chip in place of more expensive generic FPGA’s.

I am seeing more camera models coming out of Infiray with the “V2” suffix so it would appear that Infiray is gradually moving its cameras onto that new core version. If the comments I am hearing about inferior performance from the V2 core are indeed true, buyers need to be careful which version they purchase. There are rumours that the “V2” is using a different chipset and possibly is a production cost reduced release. These are just rumours and not proven facts however. Does anyone here know more about this V1 vs V2 matter and whether it is true that V2 imaging is indeed worse than the older V1 release ?

Infiray have produced some half decent cores in the past and I hoped that they would build on that and release better performing new releases that addressed some of the issues present in the V1 cores. It would be a pity if they opted to just focus on reducing production cost and tolerated a decline in image quality as an acceptable consequence.

The XH09 is certainly an example of how far Infiray is willing to go in terms of compromising performance.

From memory the following well known models are being transitioned to “V2” cores now…..

T2S+
T2 Pro
P200

Likely others will follow.

Comments welcomed 

Fraser

[globoy]

Will definitely be interesting to hear about what you find, Fraser.

[Fraser]

Sadly I have only read and heard the negative comments on the V2 camera cores and do not have any to test. At the moment, a V2 version of an Infiray product would be on my “one to avoid” list. I was fortunate to find a used T2 Pro at an excellent price recently and it is a V1. It is “as new” boxed with the handle and I have to admit that I like it.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Some quotes from RMHansen on his Discord Server. He is very familiar with the Infiray cores thanks to his efforts authoring decent software for them.

Quote 1.

"I have disabled the second range for the T2S+ in the software. The main reason is because the version 2 of the T2S+ has massive temperature drift, and its even worse in the 450C range (about 3 degree Celsius drift per sec). I dont know why infiray made the version 2 of the T2S+ with so much worse performance than the Version 1 of the camera series, but in the android app, they just subtract the error every sec to correct for the massive drift error over time. this is just accumulating the error until a calibration is done. a calibration is almost useless in the high range, because once a calibration has finished, the temperature has already drifted with about 1 degree C.

I have had a few people complaining about the temperature drift using the T2S+ V2, thinking that is was a software issue, when it is a problem with the new V2 series of cameras.

I hope that Infiray will soon make a better revisions of the new V2 series of the T2S+, that at least have the same performance as the Version 1. Until then, the max range for the T2S+ is just unusable and thats why i havent unlocked it in the software - for now..."

Quote 2.

"That the V2 versions of the T2 series are performing worse in every aspect in relation to the V1 versions."

Quote 3.

"Its a good camera. The version V2 of the camera is not as good as the V1, but its still fine."

Quote 4.

"The Names "_A, _B, _V2, _V, _B2, _A2" are all V2 series cameras."


Reading these comments from RMHansen led to me digging a bit deeper into the V2 model and its issues. I have not found a side by side test for the versions however. This could just be "teething troubles" with a new core ASIC or firmware.

For anyone wishing to visit the Discord Server of RMHansen, you will find it named "DIY Thermal Imaging" and its membership offers a useful environment to discuss all things Infiray related and, of course, the IRCam Thermal Viewer software. For info, RMHansen is in the process of moving his software onto his own server to resolve issues with hosting it on the Microsoft Store.

Fraser
 

[JOE 2345]

Can't wait to see more compared videos or post for it.

[BAM5]

Just received my P2 Pro. I know you said you have a P2 Pro V1, but how do you know it's a V1? I don't see anything physically indicating a version on mine and I'm not sure where the "_suffixes" you mention would be located.
The QC stamp shows 2024-03-07 as the date so it is a recently produced unit...

Hmm, TC001 installed via apk from their website (app store ver doesn't even recognize the camera) reports this when I click on the info button at the top right of the thermography screen.

Code: [Select]

Version:2.32.002 PN:P2STDMD
25603211XSNRXX_1170100181
SN:P200...<REDACTED>
IRProcessVer:libirprocess 0.8.1
IRParseVer:libirparse 0.3.0

Also, a difference I've found between the unit I have and those I see reviewed online is on the back of mine there are certification markings and the www.xinfrared.com domain name (but it still says infiray on the front 😄). The lens piece also is a little different as well.

Thanks Fraser, you're a huge resource to this community and were a huge influence on my purchase decision as I've been itching to get a thermal camera for a couple years now and finally decided to pull the trigger!
Would be happy to collaborate and do some tests from my end if that "Version:2.32.002" means what I hope it doesn't 😅

[Fraser]

I have not heard of a Version 2 of the P2 dongle camera, possibly because it uses a standard Tiny1C core ? I know that my P2 Pro is Version 1 because it was sent to me for testing long before the Version 2 of certain camera models appeared on the market. I will take a look at the camera information page and see what it says about my P2 camera. I also own a Version 1 of the T2 Pro and that is identified in the  software without any suffix that would be present in the Version 2 cameras.

It is interesting that there has not been more “chatter” regarding the Version 2 cameras and their performance. Maybe the differences between the Version 1 and Version 2 cameras is not that obvious in general use 

Fraser

[Fraser]

I used an old version of the Topdon App with my P2 Pro camera dongle and the information page provides the information shown in the attached picture.

Interestingly my P2 Pro is identified as a “V3” ! It is Version 3 of the P2. I received this P2 from Infiray when they released the Pro version with MACRO lens in 2022. The cameras firmware is dated 23 May 2022.

Note the difference in camera part number and firmware between my 2022 unit and the 2024 unit detailed by BAM5.

Fraser

Update: the version of TC001 that I am using is : 1.20.000.221028

[Fraser]

The official Infiray P2 Pro Android app provides the version data shown in the attached picture.

The cameras Firmware version is 3.04.09.01

Fraser

[BAM5]

Hmmm, I'm noticing some things I don't like in the image I see.
I set it to black and white, and then pointed it at a carpet which is pretty even in temperature.
I notice a vignette like circular pattern around the corners and some mura like grain to the image. Even after I hear it calibrate.
Then if I manually calibrate it in quick succession the temperature reading dropped degree by degree, like 10℃ below its initial reading.
I'll post some screen shots

[Fraser]

Your measurement error experience does not match mine with the P2 Pro. We have to wonder whether Infiray has been changing their core technology and whether this is creating the issues that I am hearing about, especially with measurement accuracy, core thermal stability and general imaging performance. Hence why I created this thread. I am sorry to hear that your P2 Pro appears to have measurement accuracy issues and if I were in your position, I would return the camera for a refund.

If Infiray have changed their imaging cores or firmware in a way that caused thermal instability and/or significant measurement errors, their products would be best avoided until they fix the issues.

The price of used Infiray cameras may increase if the latest releases are shown to be flawed. I bought a used T2 Pro recently in the hope of avoiding the latest T2 Pro V2. It may be wise to do likewise.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Having looked at the Infiray web site I found it to be a good example of unrestrained marketing team BS. Nothing truly useful to be found amongst the mass of glitzy marketing graphics and images. Totally useless as a source of technical information on any changes that have been made to the camera and core technology.

Fraser

[superamperevolt]

The main issue with the V2 A2 A revision cameras is that they removed the oncamera processing/FPGA.

When you plug a V1 camera into your PC you get a grayscale image, which you can use without having to apply any LUT or Uniformity correction or something like that.

The V2 cameras don't really do that, I get a green pixel garbage and the phone app has to apply the uniformity correction before it becomes an useable image.

While I had the P2 Pro and TS2+ V2 side by side, the P2 Pro was a bit better in terms of the temperature range, though that could be due to it having a different sensor than the T2S+.

No idea, both of them were off by a few degrees, and I wasn't able to detect any extreme issues. I kept the T2S+ because of its variable focus lens. The accuracy of these thermal sensors is highly dependent on what settings you use in the app. If the material isn't set correctly, they can be really off. In general, I wouldn't really use them for determining the accurate temperature and instead use them to detect differences of temperatures in an area. Like looking for leaks in a window, or if some component gets hot, or if the heat is probably distributed over an area.

The comparison between them was just done out of interest, they both use different ASICs/sensors. I think if you look at the marketing, the P2 Pro has the better on paper specs, even compared to the release specs of the T2S+.

Also, my comparisons were only done in the 0°C~100°C range, getting a specific model of a camera is really hard though. A friend of mine bought the T2S+ a week later from the same shop and got a "A" revision whereas I got the "A2" revision, both being of the V2 kind.