EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Thermal Imaging => Topic started by: DaneLaw on December 05, 2024, 09:01:03 pm
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Been looking at the higher-end models from iRay for some time.
PS50 is a new revision of InfiRays Flip series, a tad more modernized.. with its inbuilt 1200m IR rangefinder and 50mm optic, while on the previous 2022 Flip-flagship PH35+ (CN only) it was attached on the side as a plus-revision to 2021 - Flip PH35.
Flip PS50 & PH35+ side view with specs..
[attachimg=2]
System & featurewise, the PS50 are very similar to Flip PH35+, the biggest differences as far as I can tell between the last-generation flagship PH35+ (3Q2022) and the new Flip PS50 seem to be mostly resolution & optic and to an extent pixel pitch which has been reduced 12um' which also can have its drawbacks. like increased snr.
The prices on PS50 went north like they tend to at those resolutions, but still rely on manual focus.
* Flip PS50 1280x1024p (1.3M) - 12μm - 50mm (17.6x9.9) - 50Hz - 5" AMOLED 1280x720 - [2024]
* Flip PH35+ 640x512p (328k) - 17μm - 35mm (17.8x9.8] - 50Hz - 5" AMOLED 1280x720 - [3Q2022]
* Flip PH35 640x512p (328k) - 20μm - 35mm (21x11.5) - 50Hz - 5" AMOLED 1280x720 - [3Q2021]
* Flip PL25 384x288p (110k) - 17μm - 25mm (15x8.4) - 50Hz - 5" AMOLED 1280x720 - [3Q2022]
* Take the vertical resolution (p) with a pinch of salt on the FLIP series, as around 30% of your precious pixels seemed to be flushed out with the bathwater (somewhere in China?) as they suited to 16:9 screen, not 4:3.
The IP rating, for the water ingress aspect got a bump from PH35+ "IP66" to PS50 "IP67" and the storage elevated to 128GB on PS50 from 64GB on PH35+
Both still socalled "drop proof/resistant" from a rated 150cm.
(https://www.infirayoutdoor.cn/uploadfile/202309/05/11b885e0a4b8a81cf5036b4dc80e3f25.jpg)
(https://www.infirayoutdoor.cn/uploadfile/202309/05/b633b0c804cfe75219eb2522600b6fee.jpg)
[attachimg=1]
Has anybody taken the plunge?
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iRay Yaoguang S1280 (2023)
[attachimg=1]
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The problem with spending a sizeable sum of cash on purchasing one of these cameras is support. Put simply, if your precious new expensive toy develops a fault, you can often find yourself being ignored by the companies customer support team :( To buy one of these cameras you have to be able to write off its cost if it fails, and that requires very deep pockets indeed. Repairing budget thermal imaging cameras is often not economic so suppliers may choose to just supply a new camera and this is not a great financial loss to them. When one of these expensive high end models fails, the supplier is faced with the prospect of an expensive repair and is unlikely to want to supply a new unit. All too easily it becomes a “too difficult” situation for CS and communications cease. Good luck chasing a Chinese company for support or repair if they are not inclined to engage with you.
This is why I receive all manner of exotic thermal cameras for repair. The story I hear is common….. nil support from the Chinese manufacturer !
Fraser
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No doubt, when you're up in the 5 digits $ you need some assurance.
and I reckon most industrial segments, not least in the Western world would look at other alternatives than InfiRay as per se, whose renown leaves a lot to be desired., and their support is at times non-existent
I reckon most industrial segments, would look at brands like Flir, Testo, or even Guide which makes some decent products, and from a Chinese company, it seem like they are trying to establish some "service" here at our western latitudes.
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I am unsure what is happening with Infiray these days. People who I know were Infiray staff are now saying that they work for another company and Infiray products are being sold by companies who tell me that they have no connection with Infiray. There seems to be an ongoing attempt to hide the Infiray origins of some thermal imaging equipment. All very weird and possibly something to do with the US Sanctions on IRay ? We could see Infiray, as a brand, disappearing in the West ?
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Yep, the mother company of Inf(iRay) is Raytron, and iRay was slapped with OFAC sanctions back in Marts/April 2024.
https://www.opensanctions.org/entities/NK-LicTcUREfTbxkiqzCHAeqB/ (https://www.opensanctions.org/entities/NK-LicTcUREfTbxkiqzCHAeqB/)
- but then again' you can sadly easily duck those sanctions with a lot of subsidiaries, and greenlit your portfolio through third parties...
Though Raytron stock has bounced back.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/companies/688002.SS/charts (https://www.reuters.com/markets/companies/688002.SS/charts)
Its a carousel..they use third-party.. fx iRayUSA and you will find numerous secondary shill companies that will gladly look the other way, and couldn't care less about who & what.
Here is an article. that goes into depth. how the system works and how iRay duck sanctions from weaponizing communist troops from Russia and North Korea in their invasion of Ukraine.
https://www.vermilionchina.com/p/evasion-fraud-and-americas-degrading (https://www.vermilionchina.com/p/evasion-fraud-and-americas-degrading)
You can deny it until you're blue in the face, that you ain't supplying (just as China did for a long time) but at a certain point, it's clear as day.
We also saw that with Iranian suicide drones.
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That's unfortunate because they really do seem to have the devices dialed in. My FH35 640 resolution monocular is miles beyond any of the same resolution FLIR units I have. The FH35 clarity and overall image processing is simply astounding.
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I made a topic about this a while ago, and there did not seem to be much interest despite the bang for the buck ratio being the BEST i've seen since the Therm App line stopped (I also have a hz and pro from that lineup)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/infiray-flip-ph35-best-640-bang-for-the-buck-since-therm-app-pro-discontined/new/#new (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/infiray-flip-ph35-best-640-bang-for-the-buck-since-therm-app-pro-discontined/new/#new)
Anyway- I took the plunge and got a PH35+ Flip on aliexpress -
the framerate at 50 hz is smooth and nice, compared to my therm app pro - but i heavily dislieke the lack of audio recording when recording video
also, the menus are only in chinese- though i have a english manual i found that was a prototype, for a english version that infiray never ended up making - which they revealed to me in a email. Fortunately though the camera is simple menu wise
-These specs are the best bang for the buck- but i don't see it on any sites really- and i dont see pricing details on the one or two out there i do see, for the PS50
Curious on the prices of both of them - that is not clear
Nontheless- the images are probably insane though- only being a resolution upgrade on the Flip-- ...wish they added more features.
Curious how the price will fare - the FLIP was selling for $2800 before they stopped production (I got it $1000 cheaper in summer this year, after it ended production)
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On the company thing- after seeing how their automotive thermal cameras seemed to have no after sale support based at what I saw on here, but also seeing thermal master pop up- with their nv300 been wondering if some of these other companies aren't sorta-infiray
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... and i dont see pricing details on the one or two out there i do see, for the PS50
Curious on the prices of both of them - that is not clear
Ballpark prices. (from the Chinese domestic market)
* iRay Yaogang S1280 a tad over 30.000$ + VAT
* iRay PS50 a tad over 12.000$ + VAT.
The S1280 is the full monty and a competitor to FLIR's 1K series, so also autofocus and all that jazz..
Flip PS50 is a newer revision of the FLIP series with an enhanced 1280x1024 sensor. (*720p)
It looks to be the same rangefinder, just now housed internally, but everything else, AMOLED screen, software, app, UI, and palettes all seem identical to the previous models, so also no specific temp metrics or temp-features, it even looks like they removed the visual hot spot-tracking, you have on the previous flagship PH35+
On the last series, flagship PH35+ was the IR-rangefinder firmware locked to a given max distance, fx 1200M or 1500M, or would it accept readings as far as possible, as long you have ideal reflective circumstances?
Here is the manual for the S1280 if anybody wanna read it.
https://www.infiray.com/uploads/file/yaoguang-s-series-handheld-thermal-camera-user-manual.pdf (https://www.infiray.com/uploads/file/yaoguang-s-series-handheld-thermal-camera-user-manual.pdf)
It looks like the S1280 is/was intended for the Western market with extensive testing in a German lab to land all the credentials, SAR reports etc..but sofar no signs that Flip PH50 is intended for anything other than the domestic Chinese market, same as we saw with their last flagship PH35+, though they did make what looks to be a western optimized promovid for FLIP PS50 https://tinyurl.com/4bur6a64 (https://tinyurl.com/4bur6a64) but anything is up for grabs after InfiRay aka Raytron was sanctioned, & their products are being pulled from a lot of western retailers' something that also was highlighted in the article above, where Amazon was mentioned..
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That's unfortunate because they really do seem to have the devices dialed in. My FH35 640 resolution monocular is miles beyond any of the same resolution FLIR units I have. The FH35 clarity and overall image processing is simply astounding.
It does look good, not least on these small fold-out AMOLED screens, where you have unlimited contrast and inky black.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_HcZZSAzbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_HcZZSAzbc)
"Victor" the world's defacto most spoiled Maine Coon.
though very narrow field of focus when you're up close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYDpNCZbOyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYDpNCZbOyU)
// Both from PH35+
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That's unfortunate because they really do seem to have the devices dialed in. My FH35 640 resolution monocular is miles beyond any of the same resolution FLIR units I have. The FH35 clarity and overall image processing is simply astounding.
It does look good, not least on these small fold-out AMOLED screens, where you have unlimited contrast and inky black.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_HcZZSAzbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_HcZZSAzbc)
"Victor" the world's defacto most spoiled Maine Coon.
though very narrow field of focus when you're up close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYDpNCZbOyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYDpNCZbOyU)
Goddamn that's incredible
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Anyone notice how fast the frame readout rates are? I think that improvement is more commendable than the resolution itself.