Any deals for board repair thermal imagers coming up?

[Rooster Cogburn]

Tomorrow is 11.11 and a lot of items are discounted on sites like AliExpress. I figured that might be a good time to pick up a thermal camera. I'm looking for an inexpensive camera that is good enough to find shorts and failed components, so it needs a resolution & lens combo that can pick up small SMD components upclose on a PCB. If anybody knows a suitable model that is discounted on AliExpress / Banggood etc. that they could recommend, please share

Thank you!

[ArsenioDev]

you're gonna have a hard time beating the P2Pro or HT-301(which will be available at good prices)

[djsb]

I'm also looking for a thermal camera also for PCB repair. The HT 301 is no longer available. Are there any alternatives? Thanks.

[tszaboo]

GW-256 is 170 EUR now. If you apply the aliexpress coupons on it you get an extra 20 EUR off. IMHO it's a good deal for that, it's hard to find even used USB-C cameras with meaningful resolution for that amount. It's not going to have very-very close focus.

[wraper]

GW-256 is 170 EUR now. If you apply the aliexpress coupons on it you get an extra 20 EUR off. IMHO it's a good deal for that, it's hard to find even used USB-C cameras with meaningful resolution for that amount. It's not going to have very-very close focus.

For PCB inspection you should get camera with adjustable focus or very small focal distance (P2 Pro has snap on macro lens) which GW-256 does not seem to have.

[tszaboo]

GW-256 is 170 EUR now. If you apply the aliexpress coupons on it you get an extra 20 EUR off. IMHO it's a good deal for that, it's hard to find even used USB-C cameras with meaningful resolution for that amount. It's not going to have very-very close focus.

For PCB inspection you should get camera with adjustable focus or very small focal distance (P2 Pro has snap on macro lens) which GW-256 does not seem to have.

I agree with you , in an ideal world. In the meantime this is plenty good. This is a photo of a STM32 board in a half sized breadboard, enough to pinpoint the SOT23 LDO.
Or do you know any cameras like that at similar price point?
The only thing I don't like about it is the image registration for the visible image is "reversed" compared to what I think the buttons should do.

[wraper]

GW-256 is 170 EUR now. If you apply the aliexpress coupons on it you get an extra 20 EUR off. IMHO it's a good deal for that, it's hard to find even used USB-C cameras with meaningful resolution for that amount. It's not going to have very-very close focus.

For PCB inspection you should get camera with adjustable focus or very small focal distance (P2 Pro has snap on macro lens) which GW-256 does not seem to have.

I agree with you , in an ideal world. In the meantime this is plenty good. This is a photo of a STM32 board in a half sized breadboard, enough to pinpoint the SOT23 LDO.
Or do you know any cameras like that at similar price point?
The only thing I don't like about it is the image registration for the visible image is "reversed" compared to what I think the buttons should do.
(Attachment Link)

I have flir i7 (more recent 140x140 resolution variant) and HT-301. I adjusted i7 (fixed) focus to be able to inspect closer and see decent detail, still suboptimal and with such adjustment becomes blurry for normal distances. At some point I had another camera with 120x90 resolution but adjustable focus and it was much better than adjusted  i7 for close inspection. HT-301 on other hand can easily show a tiniest MLCC among a bunch of other parts. Even with adjusted i7 you need to somewhat guess. Your picture indicates you'll likely see a general area where's something heating but not an exact component. I'd say it's 100x better than nothing but still pretty bad for PCB inspection.

[tszaboo]

GW-256 is 170 EUR now. If you apply the aliexpress coupons on it you get an extra 20 EUR off. IMHO it's a good deal for that, it's hard to find even used USB-C cameras with meaningful resolution for that amount. It's not going to have very-very close focus.

For PCB inspection you should get camera with adjustable focus or very small focal distance (P2 Pro has snap on macro lens) which GW-256 does not seem to have.

I agree with you , in an ideal world. In the meantime this is plenty good. This is a photo of a STM32 board in a half sized breadboard, enough to pinpoint the SOT23 LDO.
Or do you know any cameras like that at similar price point?
The only thing I don't like about it is the image registration for the visible image is "reversed" compared to what I think the buttons should do.
(Attachment Link)

I have flir i7 (more recent 140x140 resolution variant) and HT-301. I adjusted i7 (fixed) focus to be able to inspect closer and see decent detail, still suboptimal and with such adjustment becomes blurry for normal distances. At some point I had another camera with 120x90 resolution but adjustable focus and it was much better than adjusted  i7 for close inspection. HT-301 on other hand can easily show a tiniest MLCC among a bunch of other parts. Even with adjusted i7 you need to somewhat guess. Your picture indicates you'll likely see a general area where's something heating but not an exact component. I'd say it's 100x better than nothing but still pretty bad for PCB inspection.

I get that. The HT-301 is about four times the price, correct me if I'm wrong.
There is the image blending, which is unfortunately not automatic, but it makes the images a lot more useful IMHO.
Plus, I absolutely hate smartphone cameras. We have a Seek thermal at work, that someone bought unfortunately. Half the time it doesn't work, and if I remove the camera I have to restart my phone to get it working again. And without the App it's just a paperweight. I wouldn't even consider a Chinese app like that on my phone, and you probably have a third party app. That works until an Android update kills it, and the dev get's bored and stops updating it.

[wraper]

^there are much cheaper cameras than HT-301 which are pretty decent. My point is that GW-256 and similar is a wrong tool for PCB inspection. If it's what you bought/buy for other reasons, then sure, use it for PCB inspection too. But if you are choosing what to buy for PCB inspection in particular, look for something else. As I already said P2 Pro that was mentioned is a decent choice (with optional macro lens). Another options are InfiRay T2S+ (adjustable focus), UTi721M/UTi720M with macro lens and several others.

There is the image blending, which is unfortunately not automatic, but it makes the images a lot more useful IMHO.

Quite worthless for PCB (unless your IR imager sucks), does not work at close distance and at long distance it will suck anyway. Not to say HT-301 does not need it, it has enough resolution that you can see components in IR spectrum.  My technique with adjusted flir i7 was to introduce tweezers or something similar (while looking on imager) and move it slightly above components until it's above hot area, then poke components to find exact location where tweezers meet the hotspot.

[tszaboo]

Quite worthless for PCB (unless your IR imager sucks), does not work at close distance and at long distance it will suck anyway. Not to say HT-301 does not need it, it has enough resolution that you can see components in IR spectrum.  My technique with adjusted flir i7 was to introduce tweezers or something similar (while looking on imager) and move it slightly above components until it's above hot area, then poke components to find exact location where tweezers meet the hotspot.

Dude, I post a picture showing that it actually works, and you write a wall of text to me explaining that it doesn't. WTF is wrong with people this week? Maybe I'll believe my own eyes.
I'm happy for you that you have the budget to buy half a dozen cameras for different things, some of us have different priorities.

[wraper]

Dude, I post a picture showing that it actually works, and you write a wall of text to me explaining that it doesn't. WTF is wrong with people this week? Maybe I'll believe my own eyes.
I'm happy for you that you have the budget to buy half a dozen cameras for different things, some of us have different priorities.

It works in a way that you can see contours in a blurry mess. If image is clear enough, there is no advantage of having it. And again, it works properly only from larger distance which you don't want to do if your imager can work close to PCB.

Quite worthless for PCB (unless your IR imager sucks)

[wraper]

I'm happy for you that you have the budget to buy half a dozen cameras for different things, some of us have different priorities.

You said GW-256 is EUR 170 now. P2 pro + macro lens is EUR 250 in EU, T2S+ is EUR 280. The difference is not that extreme.

[Psi]

How does the HT-301 384x288 compare to a hacked Flir E4 on image quallity.

Obviously you get a little more resolution with the HT-301 but I'd image the Flir sensor and optics are better?

[wraper]

How does the HT-301 384x288 compare to a hacked Flir E4 on image quallity.

Obviously you get a little more resolution with the HT-301 but I'd image the Flir sensor and optics are better?

HT-301 has better image. However it has disadvantages such as quick drifting (especially when just turned on) and somewhat lacking phone app. As of optics, looking on lens sizes should make clear which is better.

[wraper]

I wouldn't even consider a Chinese app like that on my phone, and you probably have a third party app. That works until an Android update kills it, and the dev get's bored and stops updating it.

There is an option of using cheap dedicated phone for it. If you have some older phone you no longer use, then even better as it's basically free. You could just attach imager to the back of the phone with double sided tape and basically have a handheld thermal imager with a much better display as a bonus.

[tszaboo]

I wouldn't even consider a Chinese app like that on my phone, and you probably have a third party app. That works until an Android update kills it, and the dev get's bored and stops updating it.

There is an option of using cheap dedicated phone for it. If you have some older phone you no longer use, then even better as it's basically free. You could just attach imager to the back of the phone with double sided tape and basically have a handheld thermal imager with a much better display as a bonus.

Or slap on a 10 EUR CO2 laser lens on the GW256, which then works perfectly as a macro lens. In fact I'm going to try that.
And no, Smartphone thermal imaging is bullshit, I pretty much made up my mind about it.

[pope]

And no, Smartphone thermal imaging is bullshit, I pretty much made up my mind about it.

Can you elaborate a bit, please?

[artag]

This isn't particularly aimed at PCB repair but could be useful with an extension lens as described above. The main point is that it's cheap and of the currently popular 255x192 resolution. I haven't bought one to check it but it seems to be a clone of the Topdon TC001 (which is itself pretty close to the P2 etc but in a bigger case).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/167068769721

It's priced at £159 but a few hours after I put it in my watch list I got an offer of £139.

[artag]

The Topdon cameras look somewhat clumsy compared with the tiny P2 but I don't really see any advantage of super-small size (it will get damaged/lost/broken in your pocket) but making them the same width as a phone means they fit very well in springloaded phone tripod mounts.

 

[wraper]

Or slap on a 10 EUR CO2 laser lens on the GW256, which then works perfectly as a macro lens. In fact I'm going to try that.

While ZnSe and GaAs laser lenses will work, it will degrade image compared to proper (especially germanium) lens.

[artag]

Why is that ?
Is it distortion or signal loss ?



Is there a cheap, effective, simple way ( I know, choose any 2 of 3 ..) to match sensor size to object size and distance ? e.g. a zoom lens ?
I have cameras with 9mm and 4mm focal lengths which are far enough apart that I can't compensate for distances around 6m without serious loss of resolution.