Author Topic: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship  (Read 59483 times)

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Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #100 on: May 05, 2016, 04:56:18 am »
Hi,

Unfortunately it won't work with the official app. Some of my Therm-App SDK -> FLIR Intensity conversion code is now built into ThermAppPlus.
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #101 on: May 09, 2016, 04:15:31 am »
Here is a thermal composite/panorama images I constructed with my Therm-App. The original resolution is ~1200x800



 

Offline frenky

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #102 on: May 09, 2016, 06:31:55 am »
Very nice.  :-+

Somebody must feel really cold in the building on the right...  ;D
 

Offline dazler

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #103 on: May 17, 2016, 03:30:01 pm »
any major difference from the 19mm to the 13mm just for regular use non professional?

also is my understanding that the therm-app and therm-app TH would produce the same image/picture but that only the TH would give you a better higher temp reading? the actual color on the image are the same?

thank you.
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #104 on: May 18, 2016, 05:04:24 am »
If you have the choice, get the 13mm. The F/1.0 aperture improves NETD slightly.
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #105 on: November 24, 2016, 06:16:53 am »


https://github.com/encryptededdy/ThermAppCam

After finding some code by leMaik (https://github.com/leMaik/ThermAppCam) that allowed raw Therm-App data to be streamed to a Video4Linux device, I modified it in order to make it provided a more user friendly output (auto calibration/NUC, autoscale, dead pixel comp. etc.). The result is the ability to basically plug a Therm-App directly into your computer, and easily access it through basically any program that supports webcams.

In the video demonstration I show it working with VLC media player, which simply detects it as a video camera.

I intend to put this on a raspberry pi and try to put together a wifi thermal IP security camera for remote monitoring.
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #106 on: November 24, 2016, 01:49:47 pm »
Nice. :-+

I guess you will be using VirtualHere for streaming usb data over wifi?
I've done the same with pi zero: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/cheap-and-compact-usb-hub-for-pi-zero/
 
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Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #107 on: November 25, 2016, 01:43:07 am »
Nice. :-+

I guess you will be using VirtualHere for streaming usb data over wifi?
I've done the same with pi zero: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/cheap-and-compact-usb-hub-for-pi-zero/

That would indeed work but I was more thinking running a video encoder on the Pi itself so it streams H.264 video directly. I will have to experiment and see if it has enough compute power to do that though.
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #108 on: November 25, 2016, 09:19:07 am »
Black Friday sale: the 25Hz Therm-App is down to $1360.

http://therm-app.com/product-category/therm-app-hz/
 

Offline Bruno28

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #109 on: January 30, 2017, 08:52:55 pm »
Has anyone use the ThermAppPlus app for the Opgal cameras? Is it worth the price? What does it do better than the stock app from Opgal?


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Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2017, 01:33:33 am »
Has anyone use the ThermAppPlus app for the Opgal cameras? Is it worth the price? What does it do better than the stock app from Opgal?


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I beta tested it and bought it. It adds pretty impressive noise reduction support and the saving of raw, 16bit images (which makes it much easier for me to stitch panoramas and otherwise process the images).

I did do a test of ThermApp Plus's background nosie removal function when it was first released;

 

Offline Bruno28

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2017, 01:40:47 am »
That's a significant improvement in noise.
Is the current app from Opgal been improved from when you tested? Or is the ThermAppPlus still a better software for imaging?

I bought to try out, the app doesn't go past the main screen. Do i need to delete the Opgal app from the device?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 01:47:49 am by Bruno28 »
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #112 on: January 31, 2017, 01:49:18 am »
No, but make sure the Opgal app is not running in the background.

IDK about improvements to the Opgal app since I don't really use it anymore.
 

Offline Bruno28

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #113 on: January 31, 2017, 02:25:24 am »
Yeah i had to close opgal's app to work. Thanks.

Also the only difference I see from the two apps is that the noise and sharpness from the hot white is better from the ThermAppPlus.
Rainbow is much better on the original app from Opgal, I can see some more details sometimes.


Some comparison between Opgal app and ThermAppPlus.
First image is Opgal and second is ThermAppPlus.














« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 04:26:26 am by Bruno28 »
 

Offline Bruno28

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #114 on: February 07, 2017, 10:33:30 pm »
What's the best setting for emissivity and Tref for general purpose?

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Offline Bill W

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #115 on: February 08, 2017, 12:28:48 am »
If you want accurate temperature measurement, then you need to set the values that are actually correct.  It is also pretty much impossible to know these, in particular Tref.

A bit of physics.....
You see the radiation from objects with a thermal camera.  Call it 'R'.
What is radiated from the object is in two parts, one part due to the temperature of the object and the other due to what is reflected from the object.
So now we have R = e*R(T_object) + (1-e)*R(T_reflections).
For a black body, e = 1

Now while 'e' comes in handy tables (if not necessarily true) best of luck working out what T_reflections should be.  Is it the sky at -15°C, a tree at +20°C, a passing bus at +35°C or what ?  One thing it is very unlikely to be is the temperature of the camera which is often used.

For general imaging I would set e to 1 and accept the imperfect nature of the scene compared to a black body, as at least you know what is going on.

regards
Bill

Offline Bruno28

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #116 on: February 08, 2017, 01:14:57 am »
If you want accurate temperature measurement, then you need to set the values that are actually correct.  It is also pretty much impossible to know these, in particular Tref.

A bit of physics.....
You see the radiation from objects with a thermal camera.  Call it 'R'.
What is radiated from the object is in two parts, one part due to the temperature of the object and the other due to what is reflected from the object.
So now we have R = e*R(T_object) + (1-e)*R(T_reflections).
For a black body, e = 1

Now while 'e' comes in handy tables (if not necessarily true) best of luck working out what T_reflections should be.  Is it the sky at -15°C, a tree at +20°C, a passing bus at +35°C or what ?  One thing it is very unlikely to be is the temperature of the camera which is often used.

For general imaging I would set e to 1 and accept the imperfect nature of the scene compared to a black body, as at least you know what is going on.

regards
Bill
Thanks for your explanation. I know every object has different way of radiating heat. But thought that setting it for general use would be handy and when I need accurate readings then I modify the E and Tref accordingly.
Thanks.

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Offline vdsl

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #117 on: November 23, 2017, 10:20:33 am »
Hi Guys!

Sorry for bringing the old thread up again.. Just wanted to confirm with the experts here:

Im looking into buying a Therm-App Thermal camera.

Due the the better specs, I was tempted to buy the TH modell.

Reading this thread now, made me unsure:

Have I understood this correctly:

The Therm-App und Therm-App TH are basicly the same cameras, but the TH is calibrated for a wider temperature range and thus gives more precise absolut temperature readings?

Although the Therm-App modell is specified from +5° to 90°, I still can take pictures of things with temperatures outside this limts? The measurements will just be very anacurate? True?
The image will be the same, with the same sensitivity?

What is it witht the viewing modes, or the lack thereof in the Therm-App modell? Are the various modes the TH offers just gimmicks? I think this comes down to preference?


My use is the following:
Main use:
PCB Troubleshooting: So the camera will be mounted on a table in my lab and I want the best resolution possible, to detect short circuits and dead ICs. Which lense would you recommend for that? The 13mm or the 19mm? Working distance issues? I think the 6.3mm lense is not suited, as it has a very narrow aperture?

Sporadic Use:
- Check bigger machinery (diesel enginges and so on..)..
- Inspecting rooms for cold spots, due to missing insulation.

Hope someone can give me some advice, as Opgal again offers Black Friday prices :)

Thanks alot!
 

Offline Bruno28

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #118 on: November 23, 2017, 10:27:36 am »
I have both. The difference that I know is the temperature range between both.
Also the TH has some extra features on reading temperature. Such as hottest and coldest temp at any given time when showing on screen, line temperature (draw a line where you want both readings on the end of each side of the line , draw a rectangle to get the temperature inside it.
Also the TH has some extra pallets.

That's all I can help.


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Offline vdsl

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #119 on: November 24, 2017, 05:49:49 am »
So, as you have both, can you confirm, that the image looks the same on both cameras? But only the TH Modell is calibrated?

What lenses do you have?
And which one would you recommend for PCB inspection?

Thanks alot for your answer.
 

Offline Bruno28

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #120 on: November 24, 2017, 05:57:09 am »
The sensors on both are the same from what I know.
The TH has the 6.8mm lens. So it's a lot wider view while the non TH has the 19mm.

The 19mm lens has a smaller aperture which means it allow more infra red into the sensor.  So the images do seem a bit clearer on the 19mm when there is very little temperature difference of high vs low temp. Like 1-2 degrees C.

See below a LED driver photo I took with the TH 6.8mm.
Not that you have the settings of high and low on the images with temperature readout. This does not have on the non TH model.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 06:00:39 am by Bruno28 »
 

Offline Ultrapurple

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #121 on: November 24, 2017, 03:23:31 pm »
The sensors on both are the same from what I know.
I'm pretty much sure that's correct.

Quote
The 19mm lens has a smaller aperture which means it allow more infra red into the sensor.  So the images do seem a bit clearer on the 19mm when there is very little temperature difference of high vs low temp. Like 1-2 degrees C.

I think you mean the 19mm lens has a wider aperture so that it lets more IR radiation in. It's always confusing that a smaller number means a bigger hole for light to pass through!

The most sensitive lens commonly available for the Therm-App range is the 13mm f/1.0. It's the one I usually keep on my Therm-App and it is very noticeably better (less noisy) than the 6.8mm. The 13mm is slightly more sensitive than the 19mm, but not enough to notice in day to day use.

Here's a summary of the different lenses from Opgal:



and some sample images with the different lenses:







Overall, I find the 13mm lens the 'best' on a day-to-day basis. It's sensitive, has a decent field of view without being too wide or too telescope-like and is generally easy to use. The only downside is that it has a relatively narrow depth of focus, but this isn't a problem for imaging anything other than very close-up work or bigger items with significant depth.

If you're thinking of buying a Therm-App camera then I'd suggest you ask Opgal whether they'll supply it with the 13mm lens. It's not appropriate with the TH, which is calibrated for the 6.8mm, but the regular camera (or HZ, which I'd recommend if you can afford it) works really well with the 13mm.

Do bear in mind (as has been alluded to earlier) that a thermal camera will not, generally speaking, give you a precise, absolute temperature of an object. They're pretty good at relative temperatures - this bit is hotter than that bit - but even a well calibrated camera may have an absolute uncertainty of a couple of kelvin. The Therm-App TH is no different from the others in this regard.

If your application requires simple spot temperature and min/max indication then I strongly suggest you investigate ThermApp Plus (on the Play Store, about $5) or ThermViewer. ThermApp Plus has very good manual controls, spot/max/min, and outputs in a variety of file formats including (I think) making a good stab at radiometric files. ThermViewer can output CSV files that record the temperature of each individual pixel as read off the sensor. 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 03:45:24 pm by Ultrapurple »
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Offline vdsl

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #122 on: November 24, 2017, 07:57:06 pm »
Hi!

Wow, thanks alot for these very good posts!


See below a LED driver photo I took with the TH 6.8mm.
Not that you have the settings of high and low on the images with temperature readout. This does not have on the non TH model.

So the non-HZ modell lacks the temperature settings on the image?

Quote
It's not appropriate with the TH, which is calibrated for the 6.8mm, but the regular camera (or HZ, which I'd recommend if you can afford it) works really well with the 13mm.

Why would you recommend the HZ version? What adavantage does the higher framerate give in an mostly static application?


So, I dont think e need the TH version. The first thing i would do, is change the 6.3mm lens to a 13 ir 19mm.
So the calibration is useless anyway.


So i think this offer is very good for me:
https://store.opgal.com/collections/security/products/therm-app-device-19mm-lens-with-additional-6-8mm-lens


The last open question would be:

Does the software limations of the non TH modell really play a role in normal use?
I mean, the non-TH modell does allow for PCB inspection application, right?

 

Offline Bruno28

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Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
« Reply #123 on: November 24, 2017, 07:59:17 pm »
Hi!

Wow, thanks alot for these very good posts!


See below a LED driver photo I took with the TH 6.8mm.
Not that you have the settings of high and low on the images with temperature readout. This does not have on the non TH model.

So the non-HZ modell lacks the temperature settings on the image?

Quote
It's not appropriate with the TH, which is calibrated for the 6.8mm, but the regular camera (or HZ, which I'd recommend if you can afford it) works really well with the 13mm.

Why would you recommend the HZ version? What adavantage does the higher framerate give in an mostly static application?


So, I dont think e need the TH version. The first thing i would do, is change the 6.3mm lens to a 13 ir 19mm.
So the calibration is useless anyway.


So i think this offer is very good for me:
https://store.opgal.com/collections/security/products/therm-app-device-19mm-lens-with-additional-6-8mm-lens


The last open question would be:

Does the software limations of the non TH modell really play a role in normal use?
I mean, the non-TH modell does allow for PCB inspection application, right?
I don't know about the HZ as I don't have one. But the basic model does have temperature reading. But just on center or where you press. Not high/low like in the photos I've uploaded. See how it shows the hottest part and the coldest part in frame?

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