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Products => Thermal Imaging => Topic started by: mikeselectricstuff on April 30, 2014, 12:23:23 pm

Title: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on April 30, 2014, 12:23:23 pm
Flir's FlirOne seems to be running late, but don't think this is much of a threat at $4K
http://therm-app.com/ (http://therm-app.com/)
http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/ (http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Hypernova on April 30, 2014, 02:57:15 pm
Quote
Thermography    
Color temperature mapping: 5°C to 90°C Available palettes: Rainbow, Iron, Grayscale
Meh

Quote
All international orders will be shipped, with no additional charge
At $4K up front, there better not be.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: electr_peter on April 30, 2014, 03:17:21 pm
Flir's FlirOne seems to be running late, but don't think this is much of a threat at $4K
http://therm-app.com/ (http://therm-app.com/)
http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/ (http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/)


Wow, for such kind of money one could easily buy thermal camera with LCD and batteries. Is it really $4k - maybe they will drop prices later? I don't see how it could be competitive with FlirOne or other thermal cameras at this value/price ratio.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on April 30, 2014, 03:58:04 pm
Flir's FlirOne seems to be running late, but don't think this is much of a threat at $4K
http://therm-app.com/ (http://therm-app.com/)
http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/ (http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/)


Wow, for such kind of money one could easily buy thermal camera with LCD and batteries. Is it really $4k - maybe they will drop prices later? I don't see how it could be competitive with FlirOne or other thermal cameras at this value/price ratio.
They're not trying to compete (other than bragging rights on being first to ship).
FlirOne is a consumer toy, therm-app is a proper thermal imaging camera that happens to use  a phone for display.
 
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: firewalker on April 30, 2014, 06:45:54 pm
It is expensive. I will stick with the Mu optics one.  :P :P :P

Alexander.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: AintBigAintClever on April 30, 2014, 06:57:06 pm
FlirOne delays are probably 'cos they're trying to make damned sure that Mike doesn't suss out how to "upgrade" them :)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: electr_peter on April 30, 2014, 08:41:10 pm
Flir's FlirOne seems to be running late, but don't think this is much of a threat at $4K
http://therm-app.com/ (http://therm-app.com/)
http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/ (http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/)


Wow, for such kind of money one could easily buy thermal camera with LCD and batteries. Is it really $4k - maybe they will drop prices later? I don't see how it could be competitive with FlirOne or other thermal cameras at this value/price ratio.
They're not trying to compete (other than bragging rights on being first to ship).
FlirOne is a consumer toy, therm-app is a proper thermal imaging camera that happens to use  a phone for display.
I agree on that specs of Thermal-App are more serious than FlirOne and it is for different market (much better lens, not integrated into iPhone case). I'm still not sure whether Thermal app is more suited for cellphones or for integration(as a part) into other devices (like cars, video/surveillance cameras, hunting devices). Former option adds more bragging rights though.

It is expensive. I will stick with the Mu optics one.  :P :P :P

Alexander.
Well, human face is orders of magnitude better in terms of thermal IR sensitivity than Mu Optics (human face is sensitive to candles/bonfire/hot electric stove etc for 0.5-1.5m. Mu Optics is not sensitive to anything at this point)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on April 30, 2014, 10:51:28 pm
Apparently FlirOne is now due end of June.

Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on July 21, 2014, 09:50:40 pm
Price now slashed to $999...!
http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-device/?utm_source=activetrail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Therm-App%20Price%20Promotion-%20July (http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-device/?utm_source=activetrail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Therm-App%20Price%20Promotion-%20July)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: nuno on July 21, 2014, 10:19:01 pm
This use-your-phone-to-xpto trend seems like you're saving on displays, but once you have the photo camera, thermal camera, multimeter, datalogger, your bike, your fridge, your domotics system, your etc etc wanting to use your phone as a display, it's going to be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on July 21, 2014, 11:39:13 pm
Well even if Flir have this buttoned right up now, it appears there's now another option for a decent res (384x288) TIC at an E4 price :
http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-device/ (http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-device/)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: dunkemhigh on July 22, 2014, 01:42:43 am
Quote
a decent res (384x288) TIC

But severely limited range (5C - 90C).
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on July 22, 2014, 07:21:17 am
Quote
a decent res (384x288) TIC

But severely limited range (5C - 90C).
I wonder if that's just the range it's calibrated over
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: dunkemhigh on July 22, 2014, 10:38:23 am
If I were flogging it, I'd imply a larger range and then say (in small print) it's calibrated over this smaller one if that were the case. But I might be biased: I was an original backer of Mu and got a refund when they changed the spec to a narrower range.

Speaking of which... the sensor used here couldn't be the one My had in mind, could it? It does look and read like the thing Mu intended to make, and maybe the only real difference is proper engineers on the one hand vs a bunch of video artists with a dream on the other.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on July 22, 2014, 11:21:48 am
If you look at their how-to-change-the-lens video,  the sensor looks like a fairly conventional hermetic package, also can't see any sign of a shutter, which is odd.
Therm-App™ Video Tutorial #5: Interchangeable Lens (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uieQ8hck_ps#ws)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on July 22, 2014, 03:26:48 pm
According to a couple of queries I sent to Opgal :
There is no shutter - it does shutterless calibration.
5-95 deg is the calibration limit, not operating limit - outside this range, "accuracy is compromised"



Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: dunkemhigh on July 22, 2014, 03:46:14 pm
The shutter thing may be related to the accuracy thing :)

Hmmm. Interesting. But not $1K interesting, I think.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on August 17, 2014, 07:43:52 pm
Lens prices are now online :
19mm $229 http://therm-app.com/product/19mm-lens/ (http://therm-app.com/product/19mm-lens/)
6.8mm $189 http://therm-app.com/product/6-8mm-lens/ (http://therm-app.com/product/6-8mm-lens/)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: masada74 on September 10, 2014, 03:26:55 am
It looks good without hacking.  But would be great if it can be hack like the E4.

http://vimeo.com/channels/799242/videos (http://vimeo.com/channels/799242/videos)

Therm-App: Night time elevated test (white hot) (http://vimeo.com/103717422)

Therm-App: Night shot in thermography in "iron" mode (http://vimeo.com/104163712)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: zapta on September 10, 2014, 04:56:24 am
Flir's FlirOne seems to be running late, but don't think this is much of a threat at $4K
http://therm-app.com/ (http://therm-app.com/)
http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/ (http://therm-app.com/product/therm-app-imaging-device-19mm-lens/)

FLIR 1 is for iPhone, this one is for Android.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: FrankenPC on September 10, 2014, 09:52:00 pm
For the money, the resolution is really good.  I wonder if they have plans to implement a programming API.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: nick.sargeant on October 28, 2014, 04:28:49 am
There is an SDK available but you must first sign a license agreement. Mike, I don't suppose you could convince Opgal to loan or donate a demonstration unit to you? It would be very interesting to see how this fares against the (cheaper but far more limited) Seek.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: jaybeez on November 03, 2014, 12:04:31 am
There is quite a long thread here, with user reviews, screenshots and videos. the developers have even chimed in and are implementing user feedback.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/430829_.html (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/430829_.html)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on November 03, 2014, 12:42:41 am
There is quite a long thread here, with user reviews, screenshots and videos. the developers have even chimed in and are implementing user feedback.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/430829_.html (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/430829_.html)
Seek could learn a thing or two from them....
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: TheEnd on November 14, 2014, 02:44:53 pm
I had a look through the AR15 site, good feedback from the users, and good product support.

Most of the pics are longer range, but I've seen some close ups at this link-
https://www.flickr.com/groups/therm-app-users/pool/with/15463575839/lightbox/ (https://www.flickr.com/groups/therm-app-users/pool/with/15463575839/lightbox/)

Longer range is more popular with others, but I know in this forum, decent pics of PCBs are more important so after a bit of checking, I finally found some examples. You can see a USB stick as the second to last pic, with some mm graduations edited onto a ruler pic to show the scale.

Prices are good, I'd consider one but I'm unsure of what the extra customs charges would be on top for the UK. Any UK member with one?
There appears to be something very similar on German ebay, Therm-app pictures, but it that device is unbranded and also double the direct price.
I know there would be some taxes, but not that amount!

So far, there isn't any European distributor as far as I can tell, but there is a US distributor being set up.

Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on November 14, 2014, 03:10:36 pm
Prices are good, I'd consider one but I'm unsure of what the extra customs charges would be on top for the UK. Any UK member with one?
Probably mostly 20% VAT, plus £5-20 clearance charge depending on carrier
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: yogort1 on February 17, 2015, 06:32:15 pm
Well, it's been a while since last post in this thread :P
Any ideas on what kind of sensor they used behind the lens? My question applies to 'Seek Thermal' and 'Flir One' devices as well. I've sent an inquiry to Ulis thermal sensors distributor and the cheapest 80p resolution thermal sensor is for 300€, so the price of the sensor alone exceeds the whole price of Seek and F1. I saw some graphs presenting that CCD and CMOS camera sensors are able to detect the mid-infrared waves used in thermal imaging when you remove their filters and leave only bare sensor. Then it is only a matter of trimming the wave spectrum.
I took one of my CCD cameras and removed all that was between lens and sensor surface. Then I took my 19mm germanium lens that I'm using with my thermal camera aaaand... nothing happened. I'm afraid that germanium just cuts too much spectrum. Right now I'm planning to do the same thing but with Umicore lens (which, by the way, are bloody difficult to acquire). Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on February 19, 2015, 09:34:08 am
The FLIR One uses a FLIR Lepton sensor, while Seek uses their own sensor, licensed from / made by Raytheon.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 10, 2015, 10:56:22 am
For anyone considering a Therm-App for electronics work, here is a demonstration of the closest macro focus achievable with the stock lens. It's of a Samsung mSATA SSD, approx 50mm across.

(http://puu.sh/k6jEG/90434cbac5.jpg)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on September 10, 2015, 01:14:15 pm
As the lens is interchangeable can you not just screw it out a bit to get closer focus?
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 10, 2015, 02:11:42 pm
As the lens is interchangeable can you not just screw it out a bit to get closer focus?
Yeah, that's literally how you focus. The photo was take with the lens screwed out as far as it would go before falling out.

It is possible to get even closer macro by reversing the lens, and holding it up to the sensor - I'll post a picture later.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: nuno on September 10, 2015, 07:51:51 pm
For anyone considering a Therm-App for electronics work, here is a demonstration of the closest macro focus achievable with the stock lens. It's of a Samsung mSATA SSD, approx 50mm across.
(...)
Good test, I'll try something similar with the CEM.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 11, 2015, 05:03:35 am
Reversed lens test

(http://puu.sh/k7etq/0cc04d7014.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq8DjQWYqOk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq8DjQWYqOk)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 13, 2015, 03:01:05 am
Inside the Therm-App (pictures not mine).

(http://i.imgur.com/nX9t0pD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/C7Pa5B3.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZSJZuDS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aC6fUJM.jpg)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Fraser on September 13, 2015, 03:23:06 am
Those pictures show a conventional high quality microbolometer capsule. The ULIS PICO 384 is a well proven array. No wonder the Therm-app provides decent images. It looks to be a very nice design.

Aurora
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 17, 2015, 11:55:37 am
With help from tomas123, I have managed to convert Therm-App files into FLIR Radiometric JPEG.

See the two attached files if you wish to mess with them. Note they have been upscaled 2x to 768x576.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: tomas123 on September 17, 2015, 12:25:57 pm
Awesome  :-+
You took a 10 years old Flir P60 camera (weight 2.0 kg) is reference camera  :)

Please post all steps as tutorial. I will link it in my Flir link list (see my signature)


edit 18.09.2015
1. Convert your raw Therm-App image with the FLIR calibration reversed. This is done with imagemagick's convert command. The command is: convert input.png -resize 200% -flop -fx "(((17711.559/((EXP(1447.2/(((u*65536)/100)+273.15)))-0.57999998)/0.025931966)+4096))/65536" out.png

This is assuming your temperature is stored as degrees C x100. I will update this once a more completed app is avaliable that outputs raw data.

Note this also flips the image horizontally (because the raw images are horizontally flipped) and upscales 200% (because FLIR Tools can't upscale for saving).

2. Insert this raw image into the FLIR image I linked above. This is done with a php script called "splitjpg.php" created by tomas123. It was originally intended for use with stitching FLIR camera panoramas in external software. You can download it here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=76829 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=76829)

Please note you will need php installed for this. Now run "php splitjpg.php -i flir1.jpg -r out.png -o flirout", where flir1.jpg is any of the files that I've posted here, out.png is the image outputted by imagemagick, and flirout (.jpg will be added automatically) is the resulting file that can be opened with FLIR Tools. Please note the preview image on the file will be incorrect - this will be corrected once we open it in FLIR Tools.

3. Open the file with FLIR Tools. Press "auto" for scaling, as right now it's reading some predefined data from the file for the range which is wrong. Then, press save. The jpg will now carry the correct preview image and you can now begin using FLIR Tools to add measurements or create a report.

some background informations:

the necessary paramaters for -fx formula you get from the reference image
Code: [Select]
>exiftool -Planck* -Object* -Emis* -Reflected* flir1.jpg
Planck R1                       : 17711.559
Planck B                        : 1447.2
Planck F                        : 0.57999998
Planck O                        : -4096
Planck R2                       : 0.025931966
Object Distance                 : 0.00 m
Emissivity                      : 1.00
Reflected Apparent Temperature  : 20.0 C

the -fx formula is the rearranged equation to calculate the temperature from Flir-RAW value and "Planck Values".
RAW=f(Temperature_Object, Reflected_Apparent_Temperature, Planck_Values)
see my excel sheet for understanding
- https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-ex-realtime-raw-radiometric-data-streaming-via-uvc/msg744673/#msg744673 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-ex-realtime-raw-radiometric-data-streaming-via-uvc/msg744673/#msg744673)
- https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg342072/#msg342072 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg342072/#msg342072)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: amyk on September 17, 2015, 01:42:00 pm
384x288 at 25Hz... interestingly, no mention of that model being export-restricted besides a vague disclaimer in their license agreement. Then again, they are in Israel and not the US.

You can also buy one of these from China... (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PICO384P-049-French-ULIS-infrared-focal-plane-array-detector-Original-The-mirror/32315178314.html)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 17, 2015, 02:05:57 pm
1. Convert your raw Therm-App image with the FLIR calibration reversed. This is done with imagemagick's convert command. The command is: convert input.png -resize 200% -flop -fx "(((17711.559/((EXP(1447.2/(((u*65536)/100)+273.15)))-0.57999998)/0.025931966)+4096))/65536" out.png

This is assuming your temperature is stored as degrees C x100. I will update this once a more completed app is avaliable that outputs raw data.

Note this also flips the image horizontally (because the raw images are horizontally flipped) and upscales 200% (because FLIR Tools can't upscale for saving).

2. Insert this raw image into the FLIR image I linked above. This is done with a php script called "splitjpg.php" created by tomas123. It was originally intended for use with stitching FLIR camera panoramas in external software. You can download it here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=76829 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=76829)

Please note you will need php installed for this. Now run "php splitjpg.php -i flir1.jpg -r out.png -o flirout", where flir1.jpg is any of the files that I've posted here, out.png is the image outputted by imagemagick, and flirout (.jpg will be added automatically) is the resulting file that can be opened with FLIR Tools. Please note the preview image on the file will be incorrect - this will be corrected once we open it in FLIR Tools.

3. Open the file with FLIR Tools. Press "auto" for scaling, as right now it's reading some predefined data from the file for the range which is wrong. Then, press save. The jpg will now carry the correct preview image and you can now begin using FLIR Tools to add measurements or create a report.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 17, 2015, 02:08:20 pm
I wonder if anyone working on a Seek thermal SDK or PC app wants to try to implement this for the Seek.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: nuno on September 17, 2015, 07:45:07 pm
I can see in the images and video that there's some vertical "stripe noise" that is static, you should be able to remove that with a "dark frame".
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 17, 2015, 08:14:52 pm
I can see in the images and video that there's some vertical "stripe noise" that is static, you should be able to remove that with a "dark frame".
Yes I am aware of that. However unfortunately the stripe noise changes slightly depending on the temperature of the target, which makes removing it harder.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: nuno on September 17, 2015, 09:19:44 pm
In form/location or/and intensity? Global intensity of individual noise pixels change?

Edit: I'm looking at mine (a CEM) and it has that "dark frame" too.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 17, 2015, 09:42:55 pm
In form/location or/and intensity? Global intensity of individual noise pixels change?

Edit: I'm looking at mine (a CEM) and it has that "dark frame" too.
Intensity. I'm sure it's removable with some work in the SDK.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 19, 2015, 08:06:01 am
A ~3000x1000 resolution, fully radiometric, panorama.

1. Stiched RAW images with ICE, output PSD
2. Filled in missing space with Photoshop content aware fill
3. Imagemagick converted image to 8bit scaled PNG.
4. Lightroom noise reduction on said 8bit PNG
5. Imagemagick convert lightroom output back into 16bit RAW PNG
6. Imagemagick convert RAW PNG into FLIR RAW PNG.
7. PHP splitjpg.php to embed FLIR RAW PNG into a FLIR radiometric JPEG.
8. FLIR Tools to add measurements and generate final output.

Noise reduction was necessary as the ~6 degrees C span had a bit of noise.

(http://i.imgur.com/kzvDPyz.jpg)
(non-radiometric preview)

Fully radiometric version, FLIR Radiometric JPEG: http://puu.sh/kgu8H/b1023306ce.jpg (http://puu.sh/kgu8H/b1023306ce.jpg)

For those wondering, here is the raw version built straight from raw files without noise reduction (this one has a lower 4 degrees C span):

(http://i.imgur.com/XImp5Q1.jpg)
Still usable, not as nice looking.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 24, 2015, 10:07:17 pm
Macro shots of my PC motherboard. Ignore the FLIR logo  ;)

(http://i.imgur.com/dbxnvZa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/48sSuhy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/79kguDh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pO8lE0u.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e20flDL.jpg)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: tomas123 on September 25, 2015, 10:07:24 am
 :-+ :-+
How do you mount the reversed lens?

Are you processed the images with a noise reduction like in your panorama workflow?
Compared with your first image, there are no stripes
(http://puu.sh/k6jEG/90434cbac5.jpg)


panorama images:
I think, your LR 8 bit intermediate step is not the best solution  ;)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: tomas123 on September 25, 2015, 10:15:36 am
off topic

my best Flir E40 macro without an extra lens

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg363213/#msg363213 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg363213/#msg363213)
LQFP64 pin-distance: 0.5mm (16 pins at 8 mm)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=75321;image)
unfortunately the lens of flir E40 at macro distances (0,4m) is only sharp in the center
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 25, 2015, 10:21:49 am
:-+ :-+
How do you mount the reversed lens?

Are you processed the images with a noise reduction like in your panorama workflow?
Compared with your first image, there are no stripes
(http://puu.sh/k6jEG/90434cbac5.jpg)


panorama images:
I think, your LR 8 bit intermediate step is not the best solution  ;)
No, those are raw images from the camera. No processing or noise reduction.

I investigated the stripes and this is what it seems like is happening: When the camera is first turned on, the stripes appear for objects over ~50 degrees. However once I leave the camera on for around 5-10 minutes (I assume for the sensor to warm up), the strips disappear. After that they only appear for very hot objects (over 120 degrees or so)

EDIT: I will do a noise test and update you.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 25, 2015, 10:30:17 am
Here's a picture of a pot.

(http://i.imgur.com/uARHCpX.jpg)

As you can see, the stripes only appear for high temperature objects now.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 25, 2015, 10:55:23 am
Therm-App Noise / NETD test.
Please let me know if you have any better methods, I'd be glad to try them.

Note the temperature range is purposely kept low (1.2 Kelvin) for maximum noise. Target is a calculator in a cold room.

Therm-App just turned on:
(http://puu.sh/knvXd/2f6f6c6b4a.jpg)

Therm-App left on for 3 minutes:
(http://puu.sh/knvVb/d558c3051b.jpg)

As you can see the sensor being left to warm up for 3 minutes really made a huge difference.

Compare to FLIR E4, E40 and FLIR One
Flir E40 (hacked 320x240), Germanium (?) lens
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/?action=dlattach;attach=118921;image)

Flir E4 (hacked 320x240),  Chalcogenide Glass lens
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/?action=dlattach;attach=118923;image)

Flir One => Lens FOL 2 (80x60)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/?action=dlattach;attach=118925;image)

I think the Therm-App in terms of noise and detail is somewhere between the E40 and E4. Probably closer to E40 but maybe I'm biased  :-+

The FLIR One does not produce a usable image, it's just all noise reduction artifacts.

Even though the Therm-App microbolometer (55mK typical according to ULIS) is technically worse than the E4 (~20mK) and E40 (~30mK), the lens on the E4 is very bad and cannot compare to the f/1.1 GASIR lens on the Therm-App or the f/1.3 Germanium lens on the E40. (that brings up a point... if the E40 lens is f/1.3 and achieves a way better image with a worse sensor, how bad is the lens used in the E4? It must be like f/1.8 or something...)

Opgal also sells a f/1.0 lens for the Therm-App for $250. I may purchase this in the future as it should increase sensitivity further.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Fraser on September 25, 2015, 11:40:01 am
The Therm app uses a decent ULIS microbolometer combined with a decent lens. IMHO both of these are superior to the E4, hence the better low contrast image quality.

With regard to the warm up time required for best image. This is quite normal and to be expected. The microbolometer warms up as a result of its internal electronics and will stabilise at around 30 Degrees C. Until the microbolometer die naturally stabilises at its running temperature, the thermal drift offset table is unable to perform its task of compensating for die temperature changes whilst in use.

I am interested to see that the Therm App does not use a FFC shutter. It presumably uses a similar idea to the original FLIR ONE iOS that incorporated dynamic FFC. The alternative is a comprehensive FFC offset table that is created for each pixel across the temperature coverage of the camera. Such is unique to each microbolometer and created during calibration. It is an expensive technique in terms of production costs though. The quick and dirty alternative is to assume most microbolometers have pixels that drift at a similar rate and just apply a NUC table to them. Such a technique can result in individual pixels drifting outside of the predicted range but such is not always an issue in non radiometric applications.

Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: tomas123 on September 25, 2015, 11:41:18 am
nice comparison

The FLIR One does not produce a usable image, it's just all noise reduction artifacts.

Yes, there are more artefacts as real informations in the image.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/msg551881/#msg551881 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/msg551881/#msg551881)
You know my sequence of 30 images  ;)
It's like a ghost film from hollywood.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/?action=dlattach;attach=118935;image)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 25, 2015, 11:59:40 am
I am interested to see that the Therm App does not use a FFC shutter.
You may also be interested to know that the new FLIR Tau 2 cores (Tau 2.7) can operate without a shutter Silent Shutterless NUC™.

http://www.flir.com/cores/display/?id=54717 (http://www.flir.com/cores/display/?id=54717)

Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 25, 2015, 01:07:10 pm
Noise and resolution test
This time with a target with slightly more contrast (enough to fill the 1.2C range).

(http://puu.sh/knAcN/566f2341c8.jpg)

For the resolution test I don't have hot wire so I tried to use a piece of aluminium with ridges. It didn't work nearly as well as tomas123's test. 1 square = 1 pixel of the 384x288 array.
(http://i.imgur.com/JHyXRid.jpg)
(http://puu.sh/knB02/006a6f3fca.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/iPvVzEq.jpg)
(http://puu.sh/knAX2/d34fbb2edd.png)

Flir E40 (image IR_3115.jpg with 320x240 sensor pixels)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/?action=dlattach;attach=118919;image)

Now process the image from the Flir One ( IMG_3353.JPG )
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/?action=dlattach;attach=118913;image)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: tomas123 on September 25, 2015, 03:19:48 pm
Opgal Therm-App is an equal opponent for a Flir Exx  :)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: schlafli on September 25, 2015, 06:11:12 pm
Given the quality of the Therm-App sensor + lens, would you reccommend it over a Flir E4 hacked to 320x240?
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: bookaboo on September 25, 2015, 07:47:13 pm
Noise and resolution test
This time with a target with slightly more contrast (enough to fill the 1.2C range).

(http://puu.sh/knAcN/566f2341c8.jpg)

For the resolution test I don't have hot wire so I tried to use a piece of aluminium with ridges. It didn't work nearly as well as tomas123's test. 1 square = 1 pixel of the 384x288 array.
(http://i.imgur.com/JHyXRid.jpg)
(http://puu.sh/knB02/006a6f3fca.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/iPvVzEq.jpg)
(http://puu.sh/knAX2/d34fbb2edd.png)

Flir E40 (image IR_3115.jpg with 320x240 sensor pixels)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/?action=dlattach;attach=118919;image)

Now process the image from the Flir One ( IMG_3353.JPG )
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/?action=dlattach;attach=118913;image)

You will get a better contrasted image if you use a material with a higher emissivity, even if the aluminium was oxidised or painted it might help. Also narrow the span by increasing the bottom of the temperature span until almost all the background is gone. That will give a better image of the target.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: tomas123 on September 25, 2015, 08:00:17 pm
The reason of this terrible images is to get the maximal noise with narrow temperature span and also show the lens sharpness .
To avoid "overexposure" it's better to work with low contrast. 

P.S.: please don't quote all images
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 25, 2015, 09:18:54 pm
Given the quality of the Therm-App sensor + lens, would you reccommend it over a Flir E4 hacked to 320x240?
Honestly it depends... what are you using it for?

If it's electronics work etc. and you're at a desk and you would like good macro without having to mod your camera... then Therm-App definitely.

However in some situations (eg. Building inspector) the E4 is still better as it's nicer to hold and the fact that it's focus-free from 0.5m out makes it easier to use for longer range use.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: schlafli on September 26, 2015, 09:16:11 am
Honestly it depends... what are you using it for?

Probably a bit of electronics work. But TBH I don't really have a proper use for it. I recently got a Flir One and once the novelty wore off I realised it's quite limited in what you can do with it. I recently returned it with the intention of spending a bit more money on a decent camera.

But I guess with the i3 thermal expert coming out soon and rumors of a new seek model, I should probably wait a month or so before rushing to buy one.




Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 26, 2015, 09:31:02 am
Honestly it depends... what are you using it for?

Probably a bit of electronics work. But TBH I don't really have a proper use for it. I recently got a Flir One and once the novelty wore off I realised it's quite limited in what you can do with it. I recently returned it with the intention of spending a bit more money on a decent camera.

But I guess with the i3 thermal expert coming out soon and rumors of a new seek model, I should probably wait a month or so before rushing to buy one.
That's exactly what I'm using it for (just pointing it at random things). In that case sensitivity and quality is far more important than actual usability :P
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 26, 2015, 12:36:09 pm
Got radiometric video working finally after a bit of work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJSltgtK7I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJSltgtK7I)

I'll post a guide later tomorrow, but basically assembling the PNGs into a .seq is easy - hard part is getting all the timestamps right. I have a little java app that does it now.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: tomas123 on September 26, 2015, 04:34:39 pm
 :-+ :-+
it's funny, that the greatest user of my flir exif header reverse engineering hacks is a non Flir user  ;)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on September 27, 2015, 02:12:54 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyIH_8M808 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyIH_8M808)

1. Bill Kraus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/billkraus/) has developed a SDK app that does continuous raw image saving. PM him on Flickr for a beta copy. My Therm-App -> FLIR intensity conversion is also now built into his app.

2. Convert your continuous "video" stream of PNGs into .fffs, as before. To do this in batch, you can use "forfiles" on windows.

eg.
Code: [Select]
forfiles /p sequence /m *.png /c "cmd /c php splitjpg.php -i flir.jpg -r @relpath -o @fname"
When you get to the step of using splitjpg.php, you need to comment out the line
Code: [Select]
unlink($destimg.".fff"); so that the FFFs are kept.

Upscaling and sharpening etc. in ImageMagick is not recommended as you'll make really, really big output files (768x576 @ 8.7fps for 5 minutes is over 2GB)

2.5. For correct playback speed, you need to set framerate. You can use a hex editor to edit the byte 8 bytes in front of "FocusDistance". Find where FocusDistance is using EXIFTool.

Code: [Select]
exiftool -v5 sequence\2015-09-27-130630-360.fff > test.txt(http://puu.sh/kpu4m/e215ac6796.png)

(http://puu.sh/kptI8/2f9c791340.png)
In the above example it has been set to 8fps (integers only).

2.75. For correct timestamps on the files themselves (which would allow for graphing), we need to edit the timestamp in the .fff files. Again, EXIFTool can be used to locate where this is.

(http://puu.sh/kpuk0/e1e54b0bbc.png)
(http://puu.sh/kpuky/c340536610.png)

The first 4 bytes is UNIX Time, the next 2 bytes is secondsx10^-4, the two bytes after that is even more accurate seconds (not really needed in our case), and the last two bytes are timezone.
Note: Reverse byte order

I have a small java app that will read filenames in the format YYYY-MM-DD-HHMMSS-(msec).fff (as outputted by Bill's app) and write to the fff file the correct time. See attached can't upload JAR, PM me for a copy. All you need to do is pass it your filename (to do for multiple files just use forfiles as before).

3. Write all your .fff files into a single sequence file. You can use window's binary copy command, eg.
Code: [Select]
copy /b *.fff mysequence.seq
4. Open the .fff in FLIR Tools. Beware a 7 minute file is about ~1.7GB.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: tomas123 on September 27, 2015, 10:40:41 am
zip the jar file before uploading  ;)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on October 15, 2015, 06:42:48 am
Work in progress ;)

(http://puu.sh/kKSVX/e9e394e35e.jpg)

Here's some before and afters of the noise reduction. As you can see radiometric data is kept completely intact.

(http://i.imgur.com/tewY3I5.jpg)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: frenky on October 15, 2015, 06:52:07 am
You are making really great progress. :-+
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: schlafli on October 15, 2015, 08:34:58 am
I was about to comment on the high noise on the picture of the sofa when I saw the temperature span is only 1.5C!

One of these days I'll pull the trigger and buy one. Only decision left: is the extra 16 fps on the 25hz model worth ~$500 to me...  :D
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: tomas123 on October 15, 2015, 10:17:01 am
Work in progress ;)

I'm waiting for you code  ;)

here I asked in the E4 thread, if anybody give us a suggest, how to remove a flir logo from the Flir.Modules.Common.dll
But nobody answered me  :-\

(see attachments in the quoted  post)
We know, how to remove the flir logo in the E4 images.

But by using Flir Tools we get the flir logo back.

After using mediaextract (http://panzi.github.io/mediaextract/ (http://panzi.github.io/mediaextract/) ) I'm sure, that the logo is a PNG Byte sequence in the dll
C:\Program Files\FLIR Systems\FLIR Tools\bin\Flir.Modules.Common.dll

Code: [Select]
>build-win32\mediaextract.exe --formats=image "C:\Program Files\FLIR Systems\FLIR Tools\bin\Flir.Modules.Common.dll"
Extracting 0x00000000 ... 0x001a6120 (1.64871 MB) from C:\Program Files\FLIR Systems\FLIR Tools\bin\Flir.Modules.Common.dll
Writing 16.7119 kB to .\Flir.Modules.Common.dll_0017bf29.png
Extracted 1 file of 16.7119 kB size.

$ identify  Flir.Modules.Common.dll_0017bf29.png
Flir.Modules.Common.dll_0017bf29.png PNG 1029x353 1029x353+0+0 8-bit sRGB 17.1KB 0.000u 0:00.000

as attachment the extracted file
 
Anybody knows, how to replace the embedded logo png in the dll with a transparent image of same pixel size (but smaller file size).
Code: [Select]
$ convert -size 1029x353 xc:none 1029x353.png
A simple binary search and replace doesn't work (after then I have the same dll size but wrong dll checksum??)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=173181;image)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 15, 2015, 10:17:39 am
MJLorton did a review on the Therm-App TH quite recently (18 hours ago!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnBc64ixsmg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnBc64ixsmg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SibX4dgO5gI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SibX4dgO5gI)

I wonder if the TH version and non-TH are similar, the only differences I could find were spec differences: https://therm-app.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202749372-What-is-the-difference-between-Therm-App-and-Therm-App-TH- (https://therm-app.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202749372-What-is-the-difference-between-Therm-App-and-Therm-App-TH-)
(also I don't believe there is a topic on the TH version, which is why I'm posting it here  ;D )

Thanks for the comparisons, by the way!

You know my sequence of 30 images  ;)
It's like a ghost film from hollywood.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/?action=dlattach;attach=118935;image)

:scared:
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on October 15, 2015, 10:22:49 am
I'm waiting for you code  ;)
Still finishing up a few things, I haven't had the time.

It's literally just a nice looking interface for your PHP script and imagemagick.

I was about to comment on the high noise on the picture of the sofa when I saw the temperature span is only 1.5C!

One of these days I'll pull the trigger and buy one. Only decision left: is the extra 16 fps on the 25hz model worth ~$500 to me...  :D
I'd personally spend the extra money on the 13mm f/1.0 lens instead.

I wonder if the TH version and non-TH are similar, the only differences I could find were spec differences
TH comes with the wider (but much narrower aperture) 6.8mm lens
TH is calibrated from 0 - 200C instead of 5 - 95C
TH comes with analysis software (but who cares when we can use (arguably superior) FLIR Tools  :-+)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: schlafli on October 16, 2015, 09:04:45 am
Just got a quote back from Opgal regarding the 25Hz model. $1700 +$60 shipping!

After UK VAT & handling, it comes down to £800 for the base model or £1400 for the Hz. At that price I can almost get 2 base ones and do stereoscopic thermal imaging :)

I'd personally spend the extra money on the 13mm f/1.0 lens instead.
This is starting to look like the better choice.


Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 16, 2015, 09:06:13 am
I wonder if the TH version and non-TH are similar, the only differences I could find were spec differences
TH comes with the wider (but much narrower aperture) 6.8mm lens
TH is calibrated from 0 - 200C instead of 5 - 95C
TH comes with analysis software (but who cares when we can use (arguably superior) FLIR Tools  :-+)

Okay, thanks for clearing that up!  :D
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on November 01, 2015, 08:14:15 am
Here's a rough graph of the drift of the Therm-App after startup as the sensor stabilizes. I would assume a camera with a shutter would do better in this regard.

(http://puu.sh/l5gfH/21086795c4.png)

Opgal recommends letting the camera stay on for 5 minutes before using it for Quantitative measurements.

Here's the same graph but of a single pixel as opposed to a 5 pixel average. You can see the increased noise for a single pixel.

(http://puu.sh/l5gow/789ab7d3f5.png)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on November 22, 2015, 11:31:39 am
Bill, behind "ThermAppPlus (http://"https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thermappplus")" (a app developed with the Therm-App SDK) has updated it with a few image processing enhancements for enhanced image quality.

I made some test shots to test these enhancements. Note the thermal span is around 2 degrees for maximum noise to show the improvements made by the app.

No enhancements applied. The Opgal app would show the same image.
(http://i.imgur.com/jSgCpps.jpg)

"background noise correction" applied. Essentially a manual NUC to correct the static background pattern.
(http://i.imgur.com/gJmVFuy.jpg)

A temporal noise reduction applied too. It reduces the slight horizontal banding (which I assume to be readout noise) present at low temp spans.
(http://i.imgur.com/QbnQaIt.jpg)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on November 26, 2015, 03:07:10 am
(http://puu.sh/lyZgA/3532cc08fd.jpg)

 ;)

If you've been eyeing the Therm-App and think that $939 is too much, then perhaps this is of interest to you.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on November 26, 2015, 09:44:45 am
Looks like the Black friday deal is free international shipping on all products, coupon "Black2015".
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: schlafli on November 26, 2015, 10:19:55 am
For the basic Therm-app that works out as a ~6% discount.  :(

I guess for people wanting to order lenses it's a pretty good deal.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on November 26, 2015, 10:54:04 am
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing :(

I would buy a lens, but the only f/1.0 lens available isn't wide angle enough for my liking. I want a wide angle lens for night vison / thermography, and low f/stop for lower noise.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Ice-Tea on December 07, 2015, 01:47:57 pm
The therm-app TH seems to be the best option for electronics work? Doesn't seem to show up in their shop section though...
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on January 27, 2016, 12:15:37 am
The therm-app TH seems to be the best option for electronics work? Doesn't seem to show up in their shop section though...
Yeah, you need to contact them to buy it. Although if you don't need absolute temp accuracy just go with the Therm-App.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on January 27, 2016, 12:49:51 am
Oops, I didn't realise that post was from last year.

Either way, could someone please move this thread to the Thermal Imaging subforum?
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: crispy_tofu on January 27, 2016, 11:01:25 am
Oops, I didn't realise that post was from last year.

Either way, could someone please move this thread to the Thermal Imaging subforum?

Reported  ;)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: dazler on February 04, 2016, 03:03:05 am
I am looking for a thermal camera and plan to keep it at around $1k
I seen this one the non TH for about that and the TH is a little bit more.
I been looking into the flir e4 as it can be hacked as well.

Any one here have both and can post side to side photos. As some older pics in here are not showing up.

I dont know if i will regret not spending the extra 500 or so to get the therm-app TH over the flir e4+

Any updates thanks.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on February 04, 2016, 09:02:10 am
I am looking for a thermal camera and plan to keep it at around $1k
I seen this one the non TH for about that and the TH is a little bit more.
I been looking into the flir e4 as it can be hacked as well.

Any one here have both and can post side to side photos. As some older pics in here are not showing up.

I dont know if i will regret not spending the extra 500 or so to get the therm-app TH over the flir e4+

Any updates thanks.
How accurate temperature measurement do you need (and to what limit)? Perhaps you could get by with a Therm-App non-TH.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: dazler on February 06, 2016, 01:42:35 am
I guess not acurrate as far as temp reading goes, but good image to look around at anything, from wall, ceiling to electronics, people. And be able to see water spot on ceiling that way i would know if there a leak on the roof.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on February 06, 2016, 05:53:51 am
I guess not accurate as far as temp reading goes, but good image to look around at anything, from wall, ceiling to electronics, people. And be able to see water spot on ceiling that way i would know if there a leak on the roof.
In that case, there will be basically no difference between the TH and non-TH (assuming same lens). The image produced will be the same, just that the TH will have more accurate readings / read higher temperatures.

In fact, if we use the included lenses (ie. the 6.8mm f/1.4 one that comes with the TH and the 19mm f/1.1 that comes with the non-TH), the non-TH will actually generate a dramatically better image due to the larger aperture.

It's far more worthy to spend your money on the 13mm f/1.0 lens ($250) instead of the TH. The f/1.0 aperture will allow in more IR light and actually get you a better picture. In fact, the f/1.4 lens that comes with the TH is a full stop slower than the optional f/1.0 lens, which means the f/1.0 lens allows in double the light.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Fraser on February 06, 2016, 12:47:50 pm
When importing thermal cameras I have had to pay the following customs fees in the UK......

2.5% Duty on IR camera technology.
20% VAT on total cost including postage cost.
£12 paperwork.processing fees from the courier company.

Fraser
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: alanpro123@hotmail.com on February 14, 2016, 02:47:23 pm
I recieved my Therm-App a couple of days ago. I had the Seek as well. can't compare.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on February 15, 2016, 12:34:33 am
While it would be nice to have a Seek vs TA comparison, I think what most people want here is a battle of the <$1K 320x240-class thermal cameras.

However, I don't think that will happen unless someone wants to pony up the money for a Therm-App, ThermalExpert and FLIR "E4".
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on February 27, 2016, 10:02:01 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNXoTNZTNUA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNXoTNZTNUA)

Here's some video I shot using the Therm-App at night. It really shows off the level of detail the camera can achieve.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: frenky on February 27, 2016, 10:19:35 am
That is creazy. :-+ It looks like it was taken with regular camera in black&white mode.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bill W on February 27, 2016, 11:29:38 am
Nice video thanks.  It also shows the apparent benefits of the human eye-brain temporal filter (around 10Hz depending on the individual) at cleaning up or ignoring certain types of noise.  Still frames and colourised video will always look worse.

Also of interest is the difference between black and white hot in overall image presentation, ease of interpretation and usefulness. 

It should be possible to trade between the two with a mix of image gamma and adjustment of the thermal mid point (in contrast modes) or histogram centre (if equalising) but this is very scene dependent.

Bill
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: efahrenholz on February 27, 2016, 02:07:38 pm
I am really considering buying this camera. The only thing right now holding me back is how wobbly the video is. I am aware of why it is happening, I just wished they would have used a full frame instead of a weird delayed progressive scan technique. I saw the video where each frame was morphed together and the effect makes it look very fluid like a full speed camera. If we could do that real time then it would be an amazing camera.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on February 28, 2016, 06:27:09 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O92zAdZcoJs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O92zAdZcoJs)

Same video except with frame interpolation to smooth it out to 30fps.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: in.Vitro on February 28, 2016, 12:54:38 pm
its imo pretty nice...I mean... its ok..right?

Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on April 28, 2016, 11:55:17 am
(http://i.imgur.com/rOjEDZY.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7SK5dPE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5MnWbXB.jpg)

Investigating the thermal characteristics of a new laptop - the Dell XPS 15.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on May 03, 2016, 10:49:26 am
The Therm-App is now avaliable for sale on Amazon (well, kinda - it appears to be out of stock).

http://www.amazon.com/Therm-App-TA19A17Q-1000-Thermal-Imaging-Device/dp/B00O7HUJSK/ (http://www.amazon.com/Therm-App-TA19A17Q-1000-Thermal-Imaging-Device/dp/B00O7HUJSK/)

(it's currently showing a higher price because it's showing a third party reseller since the direct from amazon products are out of stock. click the "2 new from $1100" to view the "sold by amazon" price).

http://www.amazon.com/Therm-App-TAH68AQ-1100-Thermographic-Imaging-Device/dp/B017I4P5B4/ (http://www.amazon.com/Therm-App-TAH68AQ-1100-Thermographic-Imaging-Device/dp/B017I4P5B4/)

The Therm-App TH is also avaliable for $2000 (also out of stock atm)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: iampm on May 04, 2016, 02:55:41 pm
The Therm-App is now avaliable for sale on Amazon (well, kinda - it appears to be out of stock).
...


Hi Eddy, I'm interested in your code for importing Therm App images into Flir Tools. I see your post about steps for it. But I'm not a computer guy and don't know much about the PHP. Also I'm using the official app on my phone (instead of ThermAppPlus). So will your code provide a convenient way to do the importing? Or will it be available for downloading? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on May 05, 2016, 04:56:18 am
Hi,

Unfortunately it won't work with the official app. Some of my Therm-App SDK -> FLIR Intensity conversion code is now built into ThermAppPlus.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on May 09, 2016, 04:15:31 am
Here is a thermal composite/panorama images I constructed with my Therm-App. The original resolution is ~1200x800


(http://i.imgur.com/RBvMHBV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ak6hMss.jpg)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: frenky on May 09, 2016, 06:31:55 am
Very nice.  :-+

Somebody must feel really cold in the building on the right...  ;D
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: dazler on May 17, 2016, 03:30:01 pm
any major difference from the 19mm to the 13mm just for regular use non professional?

also is my understanding that the therm-app and therm-app TH would produce the same image/picture but that only the TH would give you a better higher temp reading? the actual color on the image are the same?

thank you.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on May 18, 2016, 05:04:24 am
If you have the choice, get the 13mm. The F/1.0 aperture improves NETD slightly.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on November 24, 2016, 06:16:53 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nem-m4E6X1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nem-m4E6X1s)

https://github.com/encryptededdy/ThermAppCam (https://github.com/encryptededdy/ThermAppCam)

After finding some code by leMaik (https://github.com/leMaik/ThermAppCam (https://github.com/leMaik/ThermAppCam)) that allowed raw Therm-App data to be streamed to a Video4Linux device, I modified it in order to make it provided a more user friendly output (auto calibration/NUC, autoscale, dead pixel comp. etc.). The result is the ability to basically plug a Therm-App directly into your computer, and easily access it through basically any program that supports webcams.

In the video demonstration I show it working with VLC media player, which simply detects it as a video camera.

I intend to put this on a raspberry pi and try to put together a wifi thermal IP security camera for remote monitoring.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: frenky on November 24, 2016, 01:49:47 pm
Nice. :-+

I guess you will be using VirtualHere for streaming usb data over wifi?
I've done the same with pi zero: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/cheap-and-compact-usb-hub-for-pi-zero/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/cheap-and-compact-usb-hub-for-pi-zero/)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on November 25, 2016, 01:43:07 am
Nice. :-+

I guess you will be using VirtualHere for streaming usb data over wifi?
I've done the same with pi zero: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/cheap-and-compact-usb-hub-for-pi-zero/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/cheap-and-compact-usb-hub-for-pi-zero/)

That would indeed work but I was more thinking running a video encoder on the Pi itself so it streams H.264 video directly. I will have to experiment and see if it has enough compute power to do that though.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on November 25, 2016, 09:19:07 am
Black Friday sale: the 25Hz Therm-App is down to $1360.

http://therm-app.com/product-category/therm-app-hz/ (http://therm-app.com/product-category/therm-app-hz/)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bruno28 on January 30, 2017, 08:52:55 pm
Has anyone use the ThermAppPlus app for the Opgal cameras? Is it worth the price? What does it do better than the stock app from Opgal?


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Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on January 31, 2017, 01:33:33 am
Has anyone use the ThermAppPlus app for the Opgal cameras? Is it worth the price? What does it do better than the stock app from Opgal?


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk



I beta tested it and bought it. It adds pretty impressive noise reduction support and the saving of raw, 16bit images (which makes it much easier for me to stitch panoramas and otherwise process the images).

I did do a test of ThermApp Plus's background nosie removal function when it was first released;

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/629/23143222965_33d42aab06_o_d.jpg)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bruno28 on January 31, 2017, 01:40:47 am
That's a significant improvement in noise.
Is the current app from Opgal been improved from when you tested? Or is the ThermAppPlus still a better software for imaging?

I bought to try out, the app doesn't go past the main screen. Do i need to delete the Opgal app from the device?
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: encryptededdy on January 31, 2017, 01:49:18 am
No, but make sure the Opgal app is not running in the background.

IDK about improvements to the Opgal app since I don't really use it anymore.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bruno28 on January 31, 2017, 02:25:24 am
Yeah i had to close opgal's app to work. Thanks.

Also the only difference I see from the two apps is that the noise and sharpness from the hot white is better from the ThermAppPlus.
Rainbow is much better on the original app from Opgal, I can see some more details sometimes.


Some comparison between Opgal app and ThermAppPlus.
First image is Opgal and second is ThermAppPlus.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/7d252b66b906ba7bab7c4fc1a439347d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/24af406a903db9517a281eb9791e8d41.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/67176006662f1b7c884f6fb7ec6dbb00.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/b3f2577ebfcece697574f0e4f6cc2e29.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/dc8e3d220eeb44eb96f7aafba98c2036.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/39408241f23269e791c0d8a5d10e8a59.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/c21ed20315bc2d3e7d6d9d83acf90137.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/00b1b46d7bf45490ac276fb4d0e9e07b.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/a84b52d298991cb4a5084966b9bd90b7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/538a9d1074e114ab2ef69e46d459b82b.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/a889579ffa1e882af6b2de44e4d8362f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/00f0f44b5e9febfb941674d5b22485a7.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/967586a781117630a2970eb8ee8412d5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170131/cd5faa7048c0c21cb68649879521996e.jpg)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bruno28 on February 07, 2017, 10:33:30 pm
What's the best setting for emissivity and Tref for general purpose?

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Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bill W on February 08, 2017, 12:28:48 am
If you want accurate temperature measurement, then you need to set the values that are actually correct.  It is also pretty much impossible to know these, in particular Tref.

A bit of physics.....
You see the radiation from objects with a thermal camera.  Call it 'R'.
What is radiated from the object is in two parts, one part due to the temperature of the object and the other due to what is reflected from the object.
So now we have R = e*R(T_object) + (1-e)*R(T_reflections).
For a black body, e = 1

Now while 'e' comes in handy tables (if not necessarily true) best of luck working out what T_reflections should be.  Is it the sky at -15°C, a tree at +20°C, a passing bus at +35°C or what ?  One thing it is very unlikely to be is the temperature of the camera which is often used.

For general imaging I would set e to 1 and accept the imperfect nature of the scene compared to a black body, as at least you know what is going on.

regards
Bill
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bruno28 on February 08, 2017, 01:14:57 am
If you want accurate temperature measurement, then you need to set the values that are actually correct.  It is also pretty much impossible to know these, in particular Tref.

A bit of physics.....
You see the radiation from objects with a thermal camera.  Call it 'R'.
What is radiated from the object is in two parts, one part due to the temperature of the object and the other due to what is reflected from the object.
So now we have R = e*R(T_object) + (1-e)*R(T_reflections).
For a black body, e = 1

Now while 'e' comes in handy tables (if not necessarily true) best of luck working out what T_reflections should be.  Is it the sky at -15°C, a tree at +20°C, a passing bus at +35°C or what ?  One thing it is very unlikely to be is the temperature of the camera which is often used.

For general imaging I would set e to 1 and accept the imperfect nature of the scene compared to a black body, as at least you know what is going on.

regards
Bill
Thanks for your explanation. I know every object has different way of radiating heat. But thought that setting it for general use would be handy and when I need accurate readings then I modify the E and Tref accordingly.
Thanks.

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Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: vdsl on November 23, 2017, 10:20:33 am
Hi Guys!

Sorry for bringing the old thread up again.. Just wanted to confirm with the experts here:

Im looking into buying a Therm-App Thermal camera.

Due the the better specs, I was tempted to buy the TH modell.

Reading this thread now, made me unsure:

Have I understood this correctly:

The Therm-App und Therm-App TH are basicly the same cameras, but the TH is calibrated for a wider temperature range and thus gives more precise absolut temperature readings?

Although the Therm-App modell is specified from +5° to 90°, I still can take pictures of things with temperatures outside this limts? The measurements will just be very anacurate? True?
The image will be the same, with the same sensitivity?

What is it witht the viewing modes, or the lack thereof in the Therm-App modell? Are the various modes the TH offers just gimmicks? I think this comes down to preference?


My use is the following:
Main use:
PCB Troubleshooting: So the camera will be mounted on a table in my lab and I want the best resolution possible, to detect short circuits and dead ICs. Which lense would you recommend for that? The 13mm or the 19mm? Working distance issues? I think the 6.3mm lense is not suited, as it has a very narrow aperture?

Sporadic Use:
- Check bigger machinery (diesel enginges and so on..)..
- Inspecting rooms for cold spots, due to missing insulation.

Hope someone can give me some advice, as Opgal again offers Black Friday prices :)

Thanks alot!
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bruno28 on November 23, 2017, 10:27:36 am
I have both. The difference that I know is the temperature range between both.
Also the TH has some extra features on reading temperature. Such as hottest and coldest temp at any given time when showing on screen, line temperature (draw a line where you want both readings on the end of each side of the line , draw a rectangle to get the temperature inside it.
Also the TH has some extra pallets.

That's all I can help.


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Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: vdsl on November 24, 2017, 05:49:49 am
So, as you have both, can you confirm, that the image looks the same on both cameras? But only the TH Modell is calibrated?

What lenses do you have?
And which one would you recommend for PCB inspection?

Thanks alot for your answer.
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bruno28 on November 24, 2017, 05:57:09 am
The sensors on both are the same from what I know.
The TH has the 6.8mm lens. So it's a lot wider view while the non TH has the 19mm.

The 19mm lens has a smaller aperture which means it allow more infra red into the sensor.  So the images do seem a bit clearer on the 19mm when there is very little temperature difference of high vs low temp. Like 1-2 degrees C.

See below a LED driver photo I took with the TH 6.8mm.
Not that you have the settings of high and low on the images with temperature readout. This does not have on the non TH model.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171124/43c46c546327cf4611e99e886dcdfc71.jpg)
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Ultrapurple on November 24, 2017, 03:23:31 pm
The sensors on both are the same from what I know.
I'm pretty much sure that's correct.

Quote
The 19mm lens has a smaller aperture which means it allow more infra red into the sensor.  So the images do seem a bit clearer on the 19mm when there is very little temperature difference of high vs low temp. Like 1-2 degrees C.

I think you mean the 19mm lens has a wider aperture so that it lets more IR radiation in. It's always confusing that a smaller number means a bigger hole for light to pass through!

The most sensitive lens commonly available for the Therm-App range is the 13mm f/1.0. It's the one I usually keep on my Therm-App and it is very noticeably better (less noisy) than the 6.8mm. The 13mm is slightly more sensitive than the 19mm, but not enough to notice in day to day use.

Here's a summary of the different lenses from Opgal:

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8841/17738820668_0847462244_z_d.jpg]) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ultrapurple/17738820668/)

and some sample images with the different lenses:

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8877/17248216103_948120e7c8_z_d.jpg]) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ultrapurple/17248216103/in/dateposted/)


(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8821/17885748222_705ac578cc_z_d.jpg]) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ultrapurple/17885748222/in/dateposted/)


Overall, I find the 13mm lens the 'best' on a day-to-day basis. It's sensitive, has a decent field of view without being too wide or too telescope-like and is generally easy to use. The only downside is that it has a relatively narrow depth of focus, but this isn't a problem for imaging anything other than very close-up work or bigger items with significant depth.

If you're thinking of buying a Therm-App camera then I'd suggest you ask Opgal whether they'll supply it with the 13mm lens. It's not appropriate with the TH, which is calibrated for the 6.8mm, but the regular camera (or HZ, which I'd recommend if you can afford it) works really well with the 13mm.

Do bear in mind (as has been alluded to earlier) that a thermal camera will not, generally speaking, give you a precise, absolute temperature of an object. They're pretty good at relative temperatures - this bit is hotter than that bit - but even a well calibrated camera may have an absolute uncertainty of a couple of kelvin. The Therm-App TH is no different from the others in this regard.

If your application requires simple spot temperature and min/max indication then I strongly suggest you investigate ThermApp Plus (on the Play Store, about $5) or ThermViewer. ThermApp Plus has very good manual controls, spot/max/min, and outputs in a variety of file formats including (I think) making a good stab at radiometric files. ThermViewer can output CSV files that record the temperature of each individual pixel as read off the sensor. 
Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: vdsl on November 24, 2017, 07:57:06 pm
Hi!

Wow, thanks alot for these very good posts!


See below a LED driver photo I took with the TH 6.8mm.
Not that you have the settings of high and low on the images with temperature readout. This does not have on the non TH model.

So the non-HZ modell lacks the temperature settings on the image?

Quote
It's not appropriate with the TH, which is calibrated for the 6.8mm, but the regular camera (or HZ, which I'd recommend if you can afford it) works really well with the 13mm.

Why would you recommend the HZ version? What adavantage does the higher framerate give in an mostly static application?


So, I dont think e need the TH version. The first thing i would do, is change the 6.3mm lens to a 13 ir 19mm.
So the calibration is useless anyway.


So i think this offer is very good for me:
https://store.opgal.com/collections/security/products/therm-app-device-19mm-lens-with-additional-6-8mm-lens


The last open question would be:

Does the software limations of the non TH modell really play a role in normal use?
I mean, the non-TH modell does allow for PCB inspection application, right?

Title: Re: Opgal Therm-App - first smartphone thermal imager to ship
Post by: Bruno28 on November 24, 2017, 07:59:17 pm
Hi!

Wow, thanks alot for these very good posts!


See below a LED driver photo I took with the TH 6.8mm.
Not that you have the settings of high and low on the images with temperature readout. This does not have on the non TH model.

So the non-HZ modell lacks the temperature settings on the image?

Quote
It's not appropriate with the TH, which is calibrated for the 6.8mm, but the regular camera (or HZ, which I'd recommend if you can afford it) works really well with the 13mm.

Why would you recommend the HZ version? What adavantage does the higher framerate give in an mostly static application?


So, I dont think e need the TH version. The first thing i would do, is change the 6.3mm lens to a 13 ir 19mm.
So the calibration is useless anyway.


So i think this offer is very good for me:
https://store.opgal.com/collections/security/products/therm-app-device-19mm-lens-with-additional-6-8mm-lens


The last open question would be:

Does the software limations of the non TH modell really play a role in normal use?
I mean, the non-TH modell does allow for PCB inspection application, right?
I don't know about the HZ as I don't have one. But the basic model does have temperature reading. But just on center or where you press. Not high/low like in the photos I've uploaded. See how it shows the hottest part and the coldest part in frame?

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