Author Topic: REVIEW: Dianyang Technology CA10 Circuit Board Thermal Analyzer - Repair / R&D  (Read 20646 times)

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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JM1010,

I have various dongle thermal cameras and have bought used mobile phones to be their dedicated hosts. There are mobile phones available at very good prices on eBay. I bought some that had faults with the SIM slot or phone communications side but worked perfectly with Wi-Fi for App downloads. I bought phones for less than £30, often they were as little as £15 and in nice condition. I tended to buy Motorola G series, Samsung S5 and iPhone 4’s as these are common and offer decent performance. It can be worth taking this path and just considering the phone a mobile computer host for your thermal camera  :-+

Fraser
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Offline JM1010

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Thanks again Fraser. If I hear you well you seem to say that the Infiray T2L is much superior to the Seek compact pro. Does the T2L also benefit from a macro lens? If so do you know of any lens that fit this unit?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 05:51:41 pm by JM1010 »
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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The T2L is equipped with a manual focus lens but I have no minimum focus specification and it is not a camera configured for PCB inspection, unlike the CA10.

https://www.infiray.com/T2Lthermalcamera.html

A video shows its PCB capabilities though…..

https://youtu.be/LRlPTCTgjMY

A close-up ZnSe lens could be placed in front of the cameras lens , as with the Seek Thermal Dongle, but such may not be necessary.

I cannot say any more about the T2L as I have not used one. It does use the S0 core that I have tested and that core focuses down to less than 20mm.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 05:53:18 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Dianyang

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I've bought a macro lens for CA10 and have to use a doublesided tape to stick it.
I wish CA10 designed with a magnet lens mount.
😆


Hi Tommy,

Actually we don't know the purpose of the macro lens for, can you describe why you need it?
 

Offline Dianyang

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Can anyone tell me if the CA10 is sold in the UK?
I recently returned a faulty Flir ETS 320, but was not able to buy a new replacement at the same heavily discounted price. I am now looking for something else and wondered if this would be a good alternative, particularly with the huge price difference between this and the flir. Also I came across these images in the thumbnails below on the Dianyang website and wondered if it’s a newer version or older version on the CA10?

Hi Richard,

Actually we have a CA series now, the new types will be released soon.
CA-10 is focus on repair and troubleshooting, now we only have this on our website.

CA-20 (260x200) CA30 (384x288) CA60 (640x480) will adopt new software,
here is new UI introduction, more powerful for R&D,
https://youtu.be/xbQt13tXJUU

If you need detail information, please contact with me: adel@dianytech.com


 

Offline Dianyang

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Thank you Fraser for the quick response. That's exactly the info I was looking for!
Infiray is interesting but Android is no go as I use an Iphone hence my interest in the Seek pro. The CA10 seems like great tool but it only runs on Windows, a minor annoyance, not a show stopper.
The seek interested me as my needs are really basic (PCB short detection ie good contrast and precision for the high temp areas) and I don't need very sophisticated software (tracking, logging, charting etc) and limiting footprint in my workspace has benefits. In the end I think the choice for me will be between the seek and the CA-10. Thanks again. Merry Christmas!

Hi,

Actually we are developing our Android App, here is the demo,
https://youtu.be/YYO1jIAXeek

but it seems still cannot match your iphone requirement, because we don't have iphone App engineers, maybe need some time to ask one Android engineer to learn how to develop it...


 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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I will soon be testing the new DYT SpectrumOwl V2.0 thermal analysis software  :-+

This software looks to be a significant development of the original Version 1 software and includes features that I feel certain will be very useful to those wishing to carry out thermal profiling and repair of PCB’s. Dianyang Technology are clearly a company that wishes to not only produce very good quality hardware, but also continues to invest in developing the software that makes the system so powerful. DYT as a company have, and continue to impress me with their excellent attitude towards product development  :-+

I very much look forward to testing the V2 software and will report my thoughts on it soon.

Fraser
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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Just some clarification, the new Version 2 SpectrumOwl software needs the CA20, CA30 or CA60 hardware platform. The CA10 will not work with Version 2 of the software. The CA10 system still offers an excellent hardware and software package for the repair and research tech however.

Fraser
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 01:09:50 am by Fraser »
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Offline tommythuyen

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I've bought a macro lens for CA10 and have to use a doublesided tape to stick it.
I wish CA10 designed with a magnet lens mount.
😆


Hi Tommy,

Actually we don't know the purpose of the macro lens for, can you describe why you need it?
I'm using macro lens because it helps me magnify some tiny SMD components on PCB with the same distance when compare to without it
 
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Offline tommythuyen

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Thank you Fraser for the quick response. That's exactly the info I was looking for!
Infiray is interesting but Android is no go as I use an Iphone hence my interest in the Seek pro. The CA10 seems like great tool but it only runs on Windows, a minor annoyance, not a show stopper.
The seek interested me as my needs are really basic (PCB short detection ie good contrast and precision for the high temp areas) and I don't need very sophisticated software (tracking, logging, charting etc) and limiting footprint in my workspace has benefits. In the end I think the choice for me will be between the seek and the CA-10. Thanks again. Merry Christmas!
I recommend you buy CA-10 with the ability to use on Windows,  Android and iOS. For using it on smartphone you can download HTI Image app and connect it via OTG adapter.
 

Offline Dianyang

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Hi Tommy,

Got it, today I discussed it with my colleagues, to make it seems not easy, because we need to consider the temperature accuracy and mounting.

But we will try!


I've bought a macro lens for CA10 and have to use a doublesided tape to stick it.
I wish CA10 designed with a magnet lens mount.
😆


Hi Tommy,

Actually we don't know the purpose of the macro lens for, can you describe why you need it?
I'm using macro lens because it helps me magnify some tiny SMD components on PCB with the same distance when compare to without it
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Whilst I have not had a need for a supplemental lens on the CA10 system, I have considered how I might mount a reversed lens assembly on the camera to produce a true thermal microscope capable of 12um per pixel on target  8) I have yet to carry out any tests however.

With regard to mounting another lens onto the camera head, DYT have made a very nice job of the focus ring that extends out in front of the lens assembly. The deep recess that contains the lens would permit the use of a friction fit ZnSe lens mount in a similar manner to that used on some FLIR E4 close-up lens adapters. It would basically be a ring to old the ZnSe lens and some lightly sprung curved ‘arms’ around the outer edge to press against the walls of the focus ring recess. 3D printed plastic would be an option for this. I would recommend the use of the largest supplemental lens diameter that may be accommodated in the recess along with its mount as this will reduce the risk of vignetting (losing the corners of the image) and most ZnSe CO2 laser lenses perform best towards their central area so try to avoid using the periphery of the lens.

Another mounting option is even simpler ! I bought some push fit lens caps that are made of polythene. They were originally used on binoculars as dust caps. It would be a relatively simple task to cut a hole into the lens cap to accommodate the ZnSe lens. The problem with this approach is the distance of the supplemental lens from the cameras built in lens. The size of the ZnSe lens needs to be adequate to avoid vignetting at this distance from the camera lens. With regard to mounting the ZnSe lens into the lens cap, the plastic resists the adhesive bond of glue but an RTV bead may work  :-// A better approach would be to make a two part lens mount ring that sandwiches the lens cap hole edges between its outer rims whilst also holding the lens element securely. A bit like a plastic rope eyelet in a tarpaulin !

Another option for lens mounting is the use of magnetism but care is needed to avoid the use of uncontained strong magnetic fields that could interfere with the FFC shutter solenoid operation in the front of the camera core. As has been done on mobile phones in the past, a ferrous ring may be attached to the flat focus wheel face of the camera using a double sided adhesive tape. A ZnSe supplemental lens holder is then constructed using a 3D printer or other techniques. Small ceramic magnets may then be attached to the lens holders rear face and these will mate with the ferrous ring on the cameras focus wheel and hold the supplemental lens in place. The design of the lens holder can include enhancements such as centering rings or spigots to keep the lens centred in the cameras focus wheel recesses. It might also be possible to create a ‘Top Hat’ lens mount that positions the lens down in the deep recess of the cameras focus wheel and the magnets remain a good distance away on the rim of the ‘top hat’ at the front face of the focus wheel. A drawing might help here to explain this but alas not possible at the moment. The advantage of the top hat mount would be the closer positioning of the supplemental lens to the cameras lens.

A more drastic option would be to make your own replacement focus wheel with built in threaded mount for supplementary lens mounting. The focus wheel is held onto a flange using the two screws visible in the attached picture. A replacement focus wheel could be printed using a 3D printer but it would be inferior to the excellent metal component used by DYT.

With regard to the error in measurement that the ZnSe supplementary lens can introduce into the system…… yes such an additional optical element will effect the measurement calibration accuracy. How much it effects it very much depends upon the AR  coating on the ZnSe lens. ZnSe with no AR coatings has a transmission that is pretty flat over the LWIR band but is only ~70%. A ZnSe lens intended for use with a CO2 laser has a 10.6um AR coating on both surfaces of the lens and the transmission increases to around 99.8% at 10.6um BUT the transmission figure reduces as you move away from 10.6um. A broadband AR coating is really needed to maintain a relatively flat transmission plot over the LWIR band with enhanced transmission. Sadly such BB lenses tend to be expensive and not the cheap lenses available on eBay for CO2 laser cutters etc. Take a look at this document to better understand the transmission of ZnSe.

If highly accurate temperature measurements are required, it may be best to not use a supplemental lens except for visual assessment of components rather than measurement of their temperature.

https://www.lasercomponents.com/fileadmin/user_upload/home/Datasheets/diverse-laser-optics/co2-laseroptics/materials_co2-laser_optics.pdf

Fraser

« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 06:24:20 pm by Fraser »
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Offline tommythuyen

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I'm using Faber Castell to stick macro zoom lens like this..😆

Hi Tommy,

Got it, today I discussed it with my colleagues, to make it seems not easy, because we need to consider the temperature accuracy and mounting.

But we will try!


I've bought a macro lens for CA10 and have to use a doublesided tape to stick it.
I wish CA10 designed with a magnet lens mount.
😆


Hi Tommy,

Actually we don't know the purpose of the macro lens for, can you describe why you need it?
I'm using macro lens because it helps me magnify some tiny SMD components on PCB with the same distance when compare to without it
 

Offline tommythuyen

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Whether can we have more basic patterns such as "White - hot", "Black-hot" on CA-10 softwares ?

Can anyone tell me if the CA10 is sold in the UK?
I recently returned a faulty Flir ETS 320, but was not able to buy a new replacement at the same heavily discounted price. I am now looking for something else and wondered if this would be a good alternative, particularly with the huge price difference between this and the flir. Also I came across these images in the thumbnails below on the Dianyang website and wondered if it’s a newer version or older version on the CA10?

Hi Richard,

Actually we have a CA series now, the new types will be released soon.
CA-10 is focus on repair and troubleshooting, now we only have this on our website.

CA-20 (260x200) CA30 (384x288) CA60 (640x480) will adopt new software,
here is new UI introduction, more powerful for R&D,
https://youtu.be/xbQt13tXJUU

If you need detail information, please contact with me: adel@dianytech.com
 

Offline tommythuyen

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Thank you for sharing the meaningful info.
Luckily, for the vignetting issue caused by addition lens, I didn't see much in my video which was captured by HTI Image app :
https://youtu.be/zPXZD_fPnow

Whilst I have not had a need for a supplemental lens on the CA10 system, I have considered how I might mount a reversed lens assembly on the camera to produce a true thermal microscope capable of 12um per pixel on target  8) I have yet to carry out any tests however.

With regard to mounting another lens onto the camera head, DYT have made a very nice job of the focus ring that extends out in front of the lens assembly. The deep recess that contains the lens would permit the use of a friction fit ZnSe lens mount in a similar manner to that used on some FLIR E4 close-up lens adapters. It would basically be a ring to old the ZnSe lens and some lightly sprung curved ‘arms’ around the outer edge to press against the walls of the focus ring recess. 3D printed plastic would be an option for this. I would recommend the use of the largest supplemental lens diameter that may be accommodated in the recess along with its mount as this will reduce the risk of vignetting (losing the corners of the image) and most ZnSe CO2 laser lenses perform best towards their central area so try to avoid using the periphery of the lens.

Another mounting option is even simpler ! I bought some push fit lens caps that are made of polythene. They were originally used on binoculars as dust caps. It would be a relatively simple task to cut a hole into the lens cap to accommodate the ZnSe lens. The problem with this approach is the distance of the supplemental lens from the cameras built in lens. The size of the ZnSe lens needs to be adequate to avoid vignetting at this distance from the camera lens. With regard to mounting the ZnSe lens into the lens cap, the plastic resists the adhesive bond of glue but an RTV bead may work  :-// A better approach would be to make a two part lens mount ring that sandwiches the lens cap hole edges between its outer rims whilst also holding the lens element securely. A bit like a plastic rope eyelet in a tarpaulin !

Another option for lens mounting is the use of magnetism but care is needed to avoid the use of uncontained strong magnetic fields that could interfere with the FFC shutter solenoid operation in the front of the camera core. As has been done on mobile phones in the past, a ferrous ring may be attached to the flat focus wheel face of the camera using a double sided adhesive tape. A ZnSe supplemental lens holder is then constructed using a 3D printer or other techniques. Small ceramic magnets may then be attached to the lens holders rear face and these will mate with the ferrous ring on the cameras focus wheel and hold the supplemental lens in place. The design of the lens holder can include enhancements such as centering rings or spigots to keep the lens centred in the cameras focus wheel recesses. It might also be possible to create a ‘Top Hat’ lens mount that positions the lens down in the deep recess of the cameras focus wheel and the magnets remain a good distance away on the rim of the ‘top hat’ at the front face of the focus wheel. A drawing might help here to explain this but alas not possible at the moment. The advantage of the top hat mount would be the closer positioning of the supplemental lens to the cameras lens.

A more drastic option would be to make your own replacement focus wheel with built in threaded mount for supplementary lens mounting. The focus wheel is held onto a flange using the two screws visible in the attached picture. A replacement focus wheel could be printed using a 3D printer but it would be inferior to the excellent metal component used by DYT.

With regard to the error in measurement that the ZnSe supplementary lens can introduce into the system…… yes such an additional optical element will effect the measurement calibration accuracy. How much it effects it very much depends upon the AR  coating on the ZnSe lens. ZnSe with no AR coatings has a transmission that is pretty flat over the LWIR band but is only ~70%. A ZnSe lens intended for use with a CO2 laser has a 10.6um AR coating on both surfaces of the lens and the transmission increases to around 99.8% at 10.6um BUT the transmission figure reduces as you move away from 10.6um. A broadband AR coating is really needed to maintain a relatively flat transmission plot over the LWIR band with enhanced transmission. Sadly such BB lenses tend to be expensive and not the cheap lenses available on eBay for CO2 laser cutters etc. Take a look at this document to better understand the transmission of ZnSe.

If highly accurate temperature measurements are required, it may be best to not use a supplemental lens except for visual assessment of components rather than measurement of their temperature.

[url]https://www.lasercomponents.com/fileadmin/user_upload/home/Datasheets/diverse-laser-optics/co2-laseroptics/materials_co2-laser_optics.pdf[/url]

Fraser
 

Offline Richard1972

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Thank you for this. I need something fairly soon, but was wondering if you are able to say when those other models you mention might be available? I don’t want to purchase something now and then regret it if a newer or better model comes out that I might have been able to afford.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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I will leave it to DYT to comment on release dates for the new CA series models but can advise that the new SpectrumOwl V2 software, that is an enhancement of the V1 software for R&D applications, as well as repair, will only work with CA20 and above.

I am currently testing the V2 software and it is a well thought through solution. The V1 software is still a very effective product however. V1 is not being replaced by V2. It is more like FLIR Tools Vs FLIR Researcher where the more expensive product provides enhanced capabilities and functionality. Something to consider regarding the new CA20 is it’s enhanced temperature measurement capability that offers measurement of -10C to +450C as compared to -10C to +120C for the CA10. The increased measurement range may be important in some applications, such a Reflow soldering process monitoring.

The CA10 has been described to me as a versatile PCB thermal analysis tool set for those working in the electronics repair industry, but with the ability to assist design engineers and product testers in evaluating their products thermal performance. The CA20 is an enhanced system that offers the user a software interface more suited to the R&D lab, but configurable to any application thanks to its flexible and reconfigurable ‘panel’ based user interface. Given the choice, I would buy the CA20 if my finances could stretch to it.

Fraser
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 01:36:00 pm by Fraser »
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline tommythuyen

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With Xtherm app, CA-10 can be enhanced temperature measurement capability that offers measurement of 120C to +400C as well.

I will leave it to DYT to comment on release dates for the new CA series models but can advise that the new SpectrumOwl V2 software, that is an enhancement of the V1 software for R&D applications, as well as repair, will only work with CA20 and above.

I am currently testing the V2 software and it is a well thought through solution. The V1 software is still a very effective product however. V1 is not being replaced by V2. It is more like FLIR Tools Vs FLIR Researcher where the more expensive product provides enhanced capabilities and functionality. Something to consider regarding the new CA20 is it’s enhanced temperature measurement capability that offers measurement of -10C to +450C as compared to -10C to +120C for the CA10. The increased measurement range may be important in some applications, such a Reflow soldering process monitoring.

The CA10 has been described to me as a versatile PCB thermal analysis tool set for those working in the electronics repair industry, but with the ability to assist design engineers and product testers in evaluating their products thermal performance. The CA20 is an enhanced system that offers the user a software interface more suited to the R&D lab, but configurable to any application thanks to its flexible and reconfigurable ‘panel’ based user interface. Given the choice, I would buy the CA20 if my finances could stretch to it.

Fraser
 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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tommythuyen,

So the temperature measurement capability of the camera is defined by the host software and not the cameras firmware. Interesting :)

Thanks for this information.

Fraser
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 
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Offline FraserTopic starter

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I have just seen that DYT are releasing the CA20 PCBA analysis system through a Kickstarter  :-+

Details are here…..

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/dytspectrumowl-ca-20-electronical-version-on-kickstarter-crowdfunding/

The same manual focus thermal imaging core but with an extended temperature measurement range (-10C to +450C) plus tha ability to use the new SpectrumOwlV2 software  :-+ It also provides a motorised mount for the camera head for those who like buttons rather than knobs  :-DD

Fraser
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 02:05:37 pm by Fraser »
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Offline laubzega

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Re: REVIEW: Dianyang Technology CA10 Circuit Board Thermal Analyzer - Repair / R&D
« Reply #145 on: September 27, 2022, 05:58:53 am »
I've just purchased CA-10, but any attempt to run the accompanying application fails - the app crashes on startup somewhere in ntdll.dll. I tried both the English and Chinese version, same result.

The camera hardware seems to be ok because I can see infrared BW image in e.g. Skype.

I run fairly barebones Win10 install. I tried disabling the antivirus and whatnot - did not help.

UPDATE: turns out the software does not work with NVIDIA RTX 3080. I tried latest "game ready" and "studio" drivers, same sad result. Probably related to the 3D view mode in the app. :(
« Last Edit: September 27, 2022, 11:38:16 pm by laubzega »
 


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