Author Topic: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro  (Read 10350 times)

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Offline TraxTopic starter

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Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« on: December 18, 2016, 04:09:17 pm »
Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro

How these two compare, the datasheet of the seek says < 75 mK while i3 has < 50 mK, did seek really become so much better or is that fake?

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Trax
 

Offline Bill W

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2016, 06:35:07 pm »
Depends as much on the lens as the NETD quoted as that is for the sensor alone.

NETD are measured at f/1 with a very good lens.

Don't recall what the SEEK lens aperture is, but the Q1 PRO uses an OK-ish f/1.3 which turns the 50mK into 70mK for a start.

Anyone find lens details on the SEEK ?

Bill

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2016, 07:49:46 pm »
Do you need pro because of the temperature range? Otherwise TE – Q1 will already beat Seek Compact FF into the dust. Seek Compact FF uses crappy chalcogenide lens instead of germanium. Also you can get TE – Q1 Plus with  f/1 lens.
 

Offline TraxTopic starter

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2016, 08:22:19 pm »
> Do you need pro because of the temperature range?

Yes 150°C is IMHO to low for some of the more interesting things.
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2016, 09:14:48 pm »
Yes 150°C is IMHO to low for some of the more interesting things.
i have a TE-Q1 ... the app limits to 150°C but the stored images shows the full temperature on PC.
see attachment, its a soldering iron set to 300°C. the image was taken with the actual app and then downloaded on PC.
the Statistic shows that the image has 2217 different values... that's really good i think.

additional, the USB-Live-Stream to PC has no limit too  :-+
It just seems to limit to byte range (bigger temp steps on high temperature scene), but they work on it as far as i know.

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Offline frenky

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2016, 06:59:07 am »
As joe-c pointed out it makes no sense to buy Pro model.
You'll pay 200$ more than for basic model to get a software "feature" which is already available in win app and can be added to custom android app.

It makes more sense to buy Plus model which comes with much larger 13mm f/1.0 lens and only costs 100$ more than basic model.

See here for comparison with Seek Pro: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/first-timer-thermal-camera/msg1083658/#msg1083658
More photos here: http://blog.ivytools.com/2016/08/11/seek-compact-pro-ff-image-gallery/
Seek Pro model does offer better quality but is no where near the i3 T.E.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 07:02:15 am by frenky »
 

Offline TraxTopic starter

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2016, 05:12:10 pm »
Ok. I see!

I was intending to run the unit of a Windows 7 tablet *g* so the Pro version does not have a benefit in that case i take it.

whats the focus range of the different models?

Cheers
Trax
 

Offline TraxTopic starter

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2016, 09:21:05 am »
Why does the datasheet of the Plus moel says the max temp is only 120 °C while the basic model has 150°C?
 

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2016, 09:27:15 am »
Why does the datasheet of the Plus moel says the max temp is only 120 °C while the basic model has 150°C?
Plus version is the same as non plus, except different lens which comes by default. And you can both change/use the same lenses on both of them. My assumption is because more IR radiation reaches the sensor because of the larger lens. Therefore calibrated maximum likely is the same, and read value is adjusted in firmware/software depending on lens.
 

Offline TraxTopic starter

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2016, 06:58:11 pm »
So if i want to have a large range i should not go for the larger lense?
SO in that case the I should needer get the pro nor the plus but the very basic one and use the windows app that will show temps up to 250°C right?
 

Offline TraxTopic starter

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2016, 08:32:19 pm »
So if i want to have a large range i should not go for the larger lense?
SO in that case the I should needer get the pro nor the plus but the very basic one and use the windows app that will show temps up to 250°C right?

are these my thoughts right?
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2016, 08:59:49 pm »
So if i want to have a large range i should not go for the larger lense?
Yes, see here:
http://www.i3-thermalexpert.com/products/t-e-q1-lens/
...but the very basic one and use the windows app that will show temps up to 250°C right?
I have the "TE – Q1 Development Kit" with normal 6.8mm f/1.3 lens. And yes, my soldering iron shows temperatures to around 300°C.
but how accurate this temperatures are i don't have analyzed. i am happy with this camera.  :-+
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
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Offline 3roomlab

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2017, 07:39:35 am »
Yes 150°C is IMHO to low for some of the more interesting things.
i have a TE-Q1 ... the app limits to 150°C but the stored images shows the full temperature on PC.
see attachment, its a soldering iron set to 300°C. the image was taken with the actual app and then downloaded on PC.
the Statistic shows that the image has 2217 different values... that's really good i think.

additional, the USB-Live-Stream to PC has no limit too  :-+
It just seems to limit to byte range (bigger temp steps on high temperature scene), but they work on it as far as i know.

were you able to do a comparison if the Q1 have a "wider" or better response than FLIR E-series? even though it is spec stated to a lower temp? i have a modded E4, but im not sure how to get this statistic.
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2017, 08:05:49 am »
were you able to do a comparison if the Q1 have a "wider" or better response than FLIR E-series? even though it is spec stated to a lower temp? i have a modded E4, but im not sure how to get this statistic.
My E4 is currently not usable, I work on a additional µC and Case to get it working again... a long story, I maybe tell later.

but to your question... I guess the TE shows a higher Value than the E4 in my statistic, but the image quality of the E4 is better.
Flir use a good implementation of a bilateral Filter on the hardware of the Camera. this cause a more smooth image, but less tiny details... and so a lower value in statistic.

To see a Statistic for your Images... download the Thermovision Program (you need the FE Version), extract it and start it. Drag & Drop one of your Flir images. if you see it, go to the Histogram on the right side and click on "Statistic"

back to tropic... has somebody a pro version of the Seek? have they any plans to provide something like a radiometric image or dataset?
as far as I know, there is no Seek camera with a original way to produce "analyzable" images.
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Some Thermal cameras: Kameras
 
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Offline TraxTopic starter

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2017, 06:35:49 pm »
My new Q1 just arrived.

The test program of the windows SDK works but the thermal "Thermal Expert Q1 1.4.1.zip" crashes :(

Did anyone had this issue and knows how to fix it?
Or a build that does not crash?
Tested on win 7 and 8.1

Cheers
Trax
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2017, 08:47:51 pm »
The test program of the windows SDK works but the thermal "Thermal Expert Q1 1.4.1.zip" crashes :(

Did anyone had this issue and knows how to fix it?
Or a build that does not crash?
where did you get the 1.4.1 Version?

i see only T.E_Analyst_V1.06 and no public sdk. i used in my Program the "i3system_USB_DLL_V2_1.dll"
it would be great if they have a new version of it.
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
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Offline TraxTopic starter

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2017, 07:41:57 am »
the sdk I got by mail,

but the program is here: http://www.i3-thermalexpert.com/support/analysis-tool/?ckattempt=2
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2017, 05:14:53 pm »
the sdk I got by mail,
i got a download link, it was called "16.09.07 Windows SDK.zip" and has 48.7MB

which version has your DLL?
my dlls are:
i3system_TE_dll.dll                       Version 1.0.0.1
i3system_USB_DLL_V2_1.dll        Version 2.1.0.0
the fist one has some "TODO"s in description.  :-DD

Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Some Thermal cameras: Kameras
 

Offline TraxTopic starter

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2017, 05:46:55 pm »
I also got "Window SDK_16.09.07.zip"
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Seek Compact FF vs i3 thermal Expert Q1 Pro
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2017, 08:47:48 pm »
... has somebody a pro version of the Seek? have they any plans to provide something like a radiometric image or dataset?
as far as I know, there is no Seek camera with a original way to produce "analyzable" images.

I get a image from a Reveal Pro FF and it was just a png. I Tried to found something with Exiftools and Identify from imagemagic but it looks like a normal Image.
Too Bad for this price... >:D
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Some Thermal cameras: Kameras
 


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