Seek Compact Pro frame rate investigation

[LesioQ]

I guess You've already noticed that current APK contains bin files (likely Seek firmware) for 8-9-16-18Hz repetition rates ?

[Spirit532]

If only it was that easy - they're just simulations.

[LesioQ]

Anybody tried actually to test them ?
Asking 'cos I'm in need for a way to re-firmware my cam. 

[Spirit532]

Anybody tried actually to test them ?
Asking 'cos I'm in need for a way to re-firmware my cam. 

Yes, it's a simulation.
The key in "com.tyriansystems.SeekThermal_preferences.xml" is

Code: [Select]

<boolean name="sim_mode_key" value="false">Set that to true, run the app without anything connected, and it plays a sim video.

[LesioQ]

That doen't imply that with sim flag as false and bin in flash, the sensor would spit more often.
In ISC0601 the frame was delayed 8ms from request and lasted about 16ms, so apparently there was room (in time domain) for higher (than9Hz) repetition.
Maybe here also - sensor is not a bottleneck, but a request signal is.

[Spirit532]

We know the sensor is being read out at 30Hz for internal processing, the Compact and XR let you disable all of that and read the raw image out(again, not for public discussion, breaks laws!), the Compact PRO seems to read out faster than 9 already, but still slower than 30.
My main suspicion is the initialization command set.

[tonykids]

Find something about the frame count
If we get the frame about every 100ms ,the frame count is about 21/23/25/27/29/2b/2d........always grow at 2(or more).
I use a separate thread to ask  a frame every 50ms and get the frame , its frame count is growing at 1.
But the frame sometimes seem to be covered with mosaic and  the transfer was not stable ,always get a " ReadPipe failed. " exception.

[tonykids]

Some frames get by the separate thread  every 50ms, there are 2 frames likely covered with mosaic.

[Spirit532]

That doesn't look like mosaic - that looks suspiciously like the "raw" mode of the 206x156 models.
Something's not right.

[tonykids]

Hi,I checked my code again today and find I did something wrong

Code: [Select]

ByteArry1=ByteArry2So i replaced it with "ArryCopy",and I get the frame at about 15Hz(count by FrameID 3).
Sometimes there are some stripes but it did work.
No extra control command, incredibly simple.

[pauledd]

Hi,I checked my code again

May I ask what code do you mean?

Someone on youtube found another way to enable some hidden settings... go to preferences->about and press 5x Image Processing Software... then you should have some more options in preferences...

[tonykids]

May I ask what code do you mean?

My test program on PC.

And more,Although I succeed in getting the frame rate >15 on PC,I failed on Android(yes, the seek thermal app can not use ext ref ,so I want to do it myself. )
Ignore the wrong palette , and the FPS divided by 10 is the true fps.

[carpin]

I think you need a fast Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB card.

[Spirit532]

That has nothing to do with performance.

[DaneLaw]

Someone on youtube found another way to enable some hidden settings... go to preferences->about and press 5x Image Processing Software... then you should have some more options in preferences...

Thx for the hint.
does all these features play along on your guys version, which I reckon is mostly Android.
This so-called Seek easter EGG, also works on IOS and result in these setting. (attached picture)
But not certain what, they mean with "set simulation mode" which has a tendency to crash on IOS, and will not process to actual view and need to restart the app..
Also not sure what do they meen with "use staging server"?
-the feature show "export frame rate" just put an active hz value on top of the livefeed up in the corner..

[pauledd]

I have also "Save Uncompressed" in the new menu, whatever it does, jpgs are still jpgs and *.mp4's are still compressed...
A little bit offtopic: I was never able to get videos with a valid timestamp, no player was able to play those video files (vlc,mpv, android...), I always have to recode the videos with ffmpeg to get them playable...

[tonykids]

A little bit offtopic: I was never able to get videos with a valid timestamp, no player was able to play those video files (vlc,mpv, android...), I always have to recode the videos with ffmpeg to get them playable...

I have the same problem
How to recode it with ffmpeg?

I'm developing some DLLs for @joe-c's Thermovision software and I tried to save the raw data on PC, it's about 100MB/min@9hz .

[pauledd]

How to recode it with ffmpeg?

Thats quite simple (on linux at least  , I guess there is a windows binary too ):
Simply use this command to create a h264 based copy of your video of same dimesions and a guessed input framerate of ~8fps put into a output framerate of 25fps...

Code: [Select]

ffmpeg -r 8 -i thermalVideo.mp4 -c:v libx264 -crf 15 -r 25 out.mp4
you can play a little bit with the input/output framerate to fit your needs. "crf" controlls the compression factor (quality, 0-51?) where lower numbers increase quality.

If you want to scale your thermal video into a standart fullhd frame and keep its aspect ratio you would use:

Code: [Select]

ffmpeg -r 8 -i thermalVideo.mp4 -vf 'scale=1920:1080:force_original_aspect_ratio=decrease,pad=1920:1080:(ow-iw)/2:(oh-ih)/2' -c:v libx264 -crf 15 -r 25 out.mp4
*(ffmpeg version 3.4.2)

[pauledd]

I am just curious about the "CompactPro Fast Frame" 
Its available here in Germany too, despite the >15fps they state in the specs... how can that be with the US export restrictions?
It costs ~200€ more than the ordinary CompactPro but seems to have the same specs except the higher framerate...

More strangely I've got an replacement CompactPro from Amazon that has on its box a pasted over black tape and below is "Fast Frame"... Maybe the CompactPro and the CompactPro Fast Frame are total identical devices with just different firmare/unlocks...

[Spirit532]

Germany is part of Wassenaar - it's much easier to export to Europe than to other countries.
The FastFrame is easy to identify by the "X" on the end of the model number. The CompactPro and CompactPro FF are indeed completely identical devices with different firmware(wink-wink), one is hard locked to 9Hz, the other has a sort of "free run" mode, where it outputs as many frames as the host can process. Usually around 20-30, though I've seen some go as high as 47, which makes me think it's read out at 60, or at least 50.
The very first CompactPros had no distinction between 9Hz and FastFrame, they just ran in the "free run" mode by default, but were much less optimized.

[DaneLaw]

What prices are you referring to in Germany, as in 200Euro more for FF seems excessive;

Here in Denmark these seek pro are pretty pricey,  this last year where I have been ajour with them they often cost just around 5000 DKK (around 800 US)
But thats the norm here, prices are elevated a lot here hence taxing, highest EU fees etc, and another regional +25% VAT on top.
But the FF version seems to be available here in Denmark as labeled fastframe version and same priceballpark as non FF versions but with export restrictions.
https://www.bilka.dk/elektronik/kamera-og-tilbehoer/tilbehoer-og-tasker/kameratilbehoer/seek-compact-pro-fast-frame-ios-lightning-sort-export-control/p/100384738?
This is huge danish store under danish-supermarket and they state export control under SeekPro FF and promote it as a fastframe version'so FF is valid for regional purchase here, but sale to other countries from Denmark would be handicapped and likely the reason for the statement' export control.
// and the part number also states. [Q-EAAX]
Im not sure how Germany are on that matter, but I highly doubt that Germany is restricted even more' then fx Denmark or Scandinavia in general' are from a USA-satefy-viewpoint... but on the other hand., one should newer say newer with that continent-tumbling leader aka Angela Merkel there sadly are in power for the time being (spooky madame' but thats another topic)
but I would reckon since fastframe-versions are valid here in Denmark, and to the same price as non fastframe. I would reckon that it would be the same in Germany.

On my Seek pro (IOS < Fastframeversion purchased last month from USA (private) but was listed socalled new and final prices was a little under 300US.. as I had non-intention to pay the prices these SeekPro goes for here' and when you are up in that priceballpark I would prefer 288x384 alternatives instead
But my framerate is usually all over the place' at least on native media-spec where the average-framerate is listed around 17fps.(This is on a new Ipad2018 and for the price a pretty strong device after all' hence 210k score in Antutu benchmark)
but the stated media spec, list framerate as variable and from 1.5fps to 600 fps,

Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt   0000.00 (qt  )
File size                                : 25.2 MiB
Duration                                 : 1mn 41s
Overall bit rate                         : 2 091 Kbps
Description                              : Taken with iPad7,5,iOS 11.3.1
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-05-17 00:34:12
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-05-17 00:34:12
Writing library                          : Apple QuickTime
com.apple.quicktime.camera.identifier    :: 1Axxxxxxxx4
com.apple.quicktime.location.ISO6709     : +xxxxxxxxxx8/
com.apple.quicktime.author               : SeekwareBlendModeNone
com.apple.quicktime.make                 : Seek Thermal, Inc.
com.apple.quicktime.model                : CompactPRO FF
com.apple.quicktime.software             : Seek Thermal App 2.1.5.5,SDK 2.1.5.1,FW 1.0.3.0,IP 2.5.2.0
com.apple.quicktime.creationdate         : 2018:05:17 00:57:35

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L3
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
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Bit rate                                 : 2 025 Kbps
Width                                    : 640 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Rotation                                 : 90°
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 17.074 fps
Minimum frame rate                       : 1.563 fps
Maximum frame rate                       : 600.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.386
Stream size                              : 24.4 MiB (97%)
Title                                    : Core Media Video
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-05-17 00:34:12
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-05-17 00:34:12
Color range                              : Limited
from this vid.


Dont understand how the hell I could change the viewfinder to optic dualview' meanwhile I was recording video on Seeks own app.

all attempts since this video' to open optic-viewfinder meanwhile "recording" are impossible, perhaps the app been upgraded since or it was fluke, sorry for the pun.

but mostly the framrate on my FF varies massively from the dropping shutter cal's 1.5fps to around 30fps and with avarage aj ust under 17fps.

Complete name                            : \\NETWORKSPACE2\Seagate Expansion Drive (usb)\seek\Seek Thermal\PIR-206_47.mov
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt   0000.00 (qt  )
File size                                : 17.1 MiB
Duration                                 : 1mn 9s
Overall bit rate                         : 2 072 Kbps
Description                              : Taken with iPad7,5,iOS 11.3.1
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-05-22 10:31:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-05-22 10:31:55
Writing library                          : Apple QuickTime
com.apple.quicktime.camera.identifier    :: 1Axxxxxxxx4
com.apple.quicktime.location.ISO6709     : +xxxxxxxxxx8/
com.apple.quicktime.author               : SeekwareBlendModeNone
com.apple.quicktime.make                 : Seek Thermal, Inc.
com.apple.quicktime.model                : CompactPRO FF
com.apple.quicktime.software             : Seek Thermal App 2.1.5.5,SDK 2.1.5.1,FW 1.0.3.0,IP 2.5.2.0
com.apple.quicktime.creationdate         : 2018:05:19 19:40:58

Video
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Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L3
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
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Bit rate                                 : 2 007 Kbps
Width                                    : 640 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Rotation                                 : 180°
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 17.044 fps
Minimum frame rate                       : 1.685 fps
Maximum frame rate                       : 27.273 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.383
Stream size                              : 16.6 MiB (97%)
Title                                    : Core Media Video
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-05-22 10:31:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-05-22 10:31:55
Color range                              : Limited

[pauledd]

What prices are you referring to in Germany, as in 200Euro more for FF seems excessive;

I refered to this amazon offer, CompactPro Fast Frame, 599€, but you are right, thats very expensive
https://www.amazon.de/Seek-Compact-Fast-Frame-Android/dp/B01HEGYLSE

I found another amazon offer that has it for 469€  , maybe I should have taken that instead of my 489€ Compact Pro...

[pauledd]

Germany is part of Wassenaar

So what speaks against enabling >9fps on a 9fps sold device if they are allowed to sell 15pfs devices in germany? Wouldn't that just possibly void warranty claims? Of cause one shall not sell such a cam to the "Axis of evil"...

The very first CompactPros had no distinction between 9Hz and FastFrame, they just ran in the "free run" mode by default, but were much less optimized.

That would imply they (SeekThermal) rely/hope on the poor smartphone performance of the right person in the right country to meet US export regulations? Or were they not exporting at that time ?

[Spirit532]

So what speaks against enabling >9fps on a 9fps sold device if they are allowed to sell 15pfs devices in germany? Wouldn't that just possibly void warranty claims? Of cause one shall not sell such a cam to the "Axis of evil"...

Enabling? Nothing. It's external unauthorized(unlicensed) trade that is illegal. In theory, it should also be trade to sell devices even remotely capable of >9Hz operation in hardware, but almost 90% of thermal imagers, including ones from FLIR, are all using 30/60Hz sensors inside, and only limit them further down the line(FPGA or CPU). Even the E4 has a 320x240 @ 60Hz sensor.
It's also not illegal to manufacture and sell >9Hz devices within the EU - as it's all covered by the same trade regulations. Once you want to export it outside the EU, even to a different Wassenaar-compliant country, you need an export license. They're not impossible to obtain, however - it's just paperwork and bureaucracy.

That would imply they (SeekThermal) rely/hope on the poor smartphone performance of the right person in the right country to meet US export regulations? Or were they not exporting at that time ?

They relied on poor device performance(not smartphone-reliant) in the earlier versions, but yes. In fact, the original Compact/Compact XRs(still sold today) are easily hackable to a stable 30Hz. I won't discuss how(don't ask, it's not hard to find out).
The CompactPros have been more locked down, as I have not found a way to replicate the 30Hz hack possible on the XRs, so they're tightening up the security.
Technically, they are in direct violation of ITAR and Wassenaar, but it's borderline, as it's not user-accessible(or at least, not designed to be). Just swept under the rug. The devices are fragile as hell anyway, so it's highly unlikely they could be used in anything other serious. If FLIR's Ex series was as easily hackable to 60Hz as Seeks, you can be sure there would be a lot more backlash - possibly even export bans and heavy fines.

[DaneLaw]

Just a final notice about this advanced feature and "Seeks Easter Egg" in there native App
Asked Seek about it, as my Ipad2018 was keep crashing with Simulation-mode and staging-server and I was also a little curious as the Android version seems to have an extra feature "Save uncompressed".  but nahh it's not something they wanna inform about and should never have been accessible for the end-user. according to them. (but why they call it congracts with your Easter Egg) the Seek-employe didnt wanna answer..




--
But likely Internal debugging.