Author Topic: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple  (Read 1664 times)

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Online Fraser

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2020, 11:39:12 pm »
Another question that, for me, is the “Elephant in the room” is why the Reveal series only save a standard image file to flash memory and not a fully radiometric image file for further analysis on a PC ? Also, why is it not possible to stream video from the Reveal USB port like a web cam. Both features would have been seriously useful to many users.

I have no answers to either question. An opportunity missed though.

Fraser
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2020, 12:09:49 am »
Looking at the datasheet for the Seek Shot it can be seen that a compact camera can be capable of both video recording and streaming of the image to another device. We must consider the fact that the Seek Shot is <9fps but even a video recording mode that dropped the Fast Frame camera down to 9fps to assist the processor in its task would often be acceptable to a user.

https://www.thermal.com/uploads/1/0/1/3/101388544/seek_shotpro_specsheet-1.pdf

It would seem that the lack of video recording, radiometric image files and streaming capability on the Reveal Pro was a conscious marketing decision by Seek Thermal. They wanted the seek Reveal Pro to be a “grab and go” device for professional users but without the high price tag associated with their competitors products. Adding hardware like Wi-Fi and a PC program to analyse saved image data would have added cost to the project. The absence of Video Recording remains a mystery as it is provided on the cheaper Seek Thermal dongle cameras. I return to my thoughts on processor loading and heat production though. Some users of mobile phones and dongle cameras have reported their phones getting very hot and processor thermal speed throttling when recording video. Video recording is clearly a significant additional load.

Fraser
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 12:12:57 am by Fraser »
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2020, 12:01:20 pm »
I raised a post asking about supplemental lens adapters for the Reveal series.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/seek-reveal-and-reveal-pro-supplemental-lens-adapters/

This lead me to an eBay seller called LogoXXL (Wolf) And I invited him to join the forum. He has a lot of Germanium lenses and has designed replacement lenses for thermal camera. One design is fir the Seek Reveal. After joining the forum today, he has kindly uploaded  derails of modifying a Seek Reveal and adding a better lens. He has included examples of the pictures produced and comparisons with the original and new lens images. It is clear from the pictures that the Seek Reveal lens is a weak component in the camera design. I suppose you could call it ‘good enough’ rather than good.

Having spoken to a Bill W regarding Chalcogenide IR Glass lens design it is apparent that it is an art and the experience of the designer greatly influences the quality of the optical system and images produced. The Seek lens may be just a bit too small or not optimised for best image. I would look at fitting a better lens if I could find one that would match the Reveals current lens mount. Sadly no third party replacement lenses are available in the same format. Note also that the example images from LogoXXL using the 35mm lens in place of the Seek  lens  did not show obvious lens characteristic compensation errors which is good  :-+

Fraser

EDIT: PDF was corrupted by my iPAD  :palm: Now uploaded from my laptop and checked. Sorry.
I note that it exceeds the maximum file size that was allowed, yet it has uploaded fine.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 01:15:49 am by Fraser »
 

Offline IwuzBornanerd

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2020, 01:06:09 am »
Isn't a significant part of the difference between the clarity of the original Seek images and LogoXXL's telephoto images due to the fact that the stock lens is "fixed focus" and "fixed focus" == never focused?
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Offline IwuzBornanerd

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2020, 09:09:10 am »
Another question that, for me, is the “Elephant in the room” is why the Reveal series only save a standard image file to flash memory and not a fully radiometric image file for further analysis on a PC ? ...

Fraser

???


Images are normally stored as non-radiometric PNG. A menu option lets you save all temperature data, in which case the image is stored as a radiometric TIFF.

 ;D  ;D
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Online Fraser

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2020, 09:45:22 am »
IwuzBornanerd,

Interesting ! I had read the review but forgot about the TIFF comment.

Reading the Reveal manual suggested that the Reveal saves files in PNG format with only the spot temperature contained in the file. I can see I will have to do more reading and see exactly what is available in the way of radiometric data. There does not appear to be a SEEK Thermal PC program for image analysis though  :-//

Fraser
 

Offline IwuzBornanerd

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2020, 09:49:11 am »
There does not appear to be a SEEK Thermal PC program for image analysis though  :-//

Fraser

No, but I have a crude one--for Linux at least.  Well...maybe not a lot of analysis though; whatever that entails.
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Online Fraser

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2020, 10:14:57 am »
This raises a good point about the Seek Reveal Pro..........


When you receive the unit, the box contains a piece of paper that only really tells you to register the unit. There was no obvious web link to the Reveal Pro user manual (unless I missed it!) I went on the Seek Thermal site and searched for the Reveal Pro user manual. I was directed to download the Seek Reveal manual but that does not cover the Pro model differences ! A google search for the Reveal Pro found a simple guide that could not truly be considered a user manual yet that is its title. See here......

https://res.cloudinary.com/iwh/image/upload/q_auto,g_center/assets/1/26/Seek_Thermal_RevealPRO_Handheld_Thermal_Imaging_Camera_User_Manual.pdf

Now in comparison, I can search for Reveal ShieldPro or Reveal FirePro and I find proper user manuals.

Am I missing something here or is the Seek Thermal documentation for the a Reveal sadly lacking  :-//. Granted I have not spent a lot of time searching but this particular model seems to be treated a bit like an afterthought by Seek Thermal. I have yet to find any useful guidance on the radiometric ‘full’ mode and any associated Radiometric TIFF image storage. I would have expected Seek to highlight this units radiometric capabilities. Saying that, the specification for accuracy is stated as +/-5C or 5%, whichever is greater.

Maybe I am just being dumb here (there is a lot going on at the moment) but I expected to find a proper Reveal Pro manual and not a generic “Reveal Series” manual.

Seek Reveal ShieldPro manual:

https://www.thermal.com/uploads/1/0/1/3/101388544/reveal_shiledpro_user_manual.pdf

Seek Reveal FirePro manual:

https://www.thermal.com/uploads/1/0/1/3/101388544/reveal_firepro_manual_-_jun19mn.pdf

Seek Reveal “Series” manual

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54d4e995e4b08c8065ddef4c/t/570e7e7ff699bb1e4671e3dc/1460567680755/Reveal-English.pdf

And a “User Manual” for the Reveal like the Reveal Pro that is more like a QSG !

https://www.thermal.com/uploads/1/0/1/3/101388544/reveal_series_user_manual_051117.pdf

The official Seek Thermal web site page for Seek Reveal Series user manual ...... pretty rubbish IMHO. No mention of the Pro, Shield or Fire models.

https://support.thermal.com/hc/en-us/articles/207894336-Seek-Reveal-User-Guides


The Seek Q&A section answers common questions but offers no comment on the Pro TIFF files.......

“Q: How do I download/copy images?

A: To download an image, remove the rubberized back door from the end of the device and insert your included USB cord from your computer into the TIC. If you are using a Windows or MacBook, you will be automatically prompted to import all your photos. The photos are rendered in a standard .PNG format and can be edited, annotated, and inserted into documents easily. If you have a Reveal or RevealXR unit, you can eject the 512mb/4GB SD card, and erase and reuse it with an adapter (not included). When placing the SD card back in notch, make sure and the contacts are facing downward, and try not to bend the card or force it into the slot.”

To be honest, I find the documentation to be pretty awful ! Users should not have to hunt for manuals, hunt for information on their specific version or fail to find a detailed description of their versions capabilities and how to use them.

Ultrapurple ..... any thoughts on this ? Am I just being dumb here ?  :-//

Fraser
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 11:56:59 am by Fraser »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2020, 12:12:53 pm »
OK, after some searching I see that our very own Joe_C has built Seek Reveal Pro TIFF file support into his ThermoVision software :-+ What wonderful chap Joe is  :-+ :-+ :-+

http://joe-c.de/pages/posts/unterstuetze_kameras_supported_cameras_195.php

I shall have to try it out on some test images  :)

Fraser
 

Online Fraser

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2020, 12:52:12 pm »
It seems Joe_C was having the same problem as me finding data on the Reveal Pro radiometric TIFF file format !

From his 2018 update ......

“ - Seek Reveal Pro tiff frames can be read... a poor implementation now... i only grab the frame which is remapped with given min and max values or with a 2 point calibration with slope and offset. sadly i know not enough about the format, and seek seems to tell nothing about...”

Fraser
 

Online Fraser

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2020, 04:11:55 pm »
I have found an excellent padded case fir you lovely little Seek Reveal series camera. It could have been custom made for the role as the fit is perfect. The case may be worn on a belt or the provided shoulder strap attached. I wanted a horizontal belt format and this is perfect. It has both a Velcro and a zip closure and the zip can be left open fir fast access it closed for security :) The case is the Vanguard BIIN 7H and cost me £10.39. They have returned to their normal price of £12.99 on eBay now and £13.99 on Amazon.co.uk. I attach pictures of the nice fit :)

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vanguard-BIIN-II-7H-Compact-Camera-Case-Black/401559868700?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225076%26meid%3D28be82eaf59144a4a960b74c4d17ecba%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D274314951216%26itm%3D401559868700%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A038c85d6-6f7c-11ea-b58f-74dbd1803803%7Cparentrq%3A179a028c1710aa66c9b2aaaafffe9334%7Ciid%3A1


https://www.amazon.co.uk/BIIN-II-7H-BK-Horizontal/dp/B01CUL1EN8/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Vanguard+biin+7h&qid=1585238985&sr=8-2
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 04:14:51 pm by Fraser »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: SEEK Reveal Pro FF review by Ultrapurple
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2020, 03:46:30 pm »
Another case for the Seek Reveal that does not cost a fortune and fits well. It is a vertical model for those who prefer such orientation.

The Jessops (UK) “Trek2 Compact Case” Medium sized case with both zip and Velcro fastening. It has both belt and shoulder strap mounting options. This one cost me £2.50 + £2.90 postage. It is well made and offers the Reveal excellent protection.

Fraser
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 03:55:15 pm by Fraser »
 


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