EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Thermal Imaging => Topic started by: DaneLaw on May 19, 2018, 10:25:48 am
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HI guys.
had to go for an Seek pro IOS socalled new at 290USD even though we didnt had any IOS-equipment with Lightning-plug, but instead numerous Android devices with Micro USB.
Reached out to Seek Thermal, and obviously not something they have many interests in answering, in regards using their products on different platforms then intended, they did state that in theory, it could work as not much hardware differences if any, its usually the other way around there are issues, using Android devices on Apple IOS as there are some minor hardware differences here...
Has anybody here experienced with an IOS Seek Thermal on other systems then IOS or can a person just "plug and play" with basic china-adapters Lightning 8pin to Micro USB usually 4 or 5 pins without any deeper pinout guidance beforehand.?
> All these el'cheapo lightning-adapters have finally arrived from the slow boat from China and I'm an a little hesitate to just chance it with a relative delicate sensor-equipment, after all I did end up going for an Ipad2018 in the long waiting time so do got a native system to use it with https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTJtb7oyUVo0CVfd0RQ5rsw? (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTJtb7oyUVo0CVfd0RQ5rsw?)
but still would be nice to be able to use it also with ones Android-phone.
Are there any specific risks too have in mind or problems triggering the OTG protocol, when using 8pin Lightning to 4/5pin MicroUSB adapters or anybody here used their IOS Seek Thermal on other systems then native IOS fx with Android or perhaps Windows OS true thirdparty software.? Or will it be a problem trigging the OTG standard
// Hmm, been trying with different mobile-fans, and it seems like the OTG standard gone lost in translations between 8pin Lightning to Micro USB or TypeC so no power is drawn.
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I would be very surprised if any of these adapter works ...
You'd better sell it, and buy one for android !
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As noted in the text and with links to my footage on IOS, its not a mistake I decided to purchase IOS so any reason for sell, is of course out the door.
It performs brilliantly from a 230 EUro pricepoint on my Ipad2018 and love the footage it performs with decent framerate..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgYpq8sWH2o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgYpq8sWH2o)
But as noted it would also be a gain if it was open for use with one's Android-phone or windows for that matter.
It was mainly in regards to issues with using IOS device on Android as long as you got an lightning to Micro USB adapter with the correct pinout.
The main issue seems to be the OTG protocol (getting power) their aint seem to be triggered.
From my old ticket.
Hello Hviid Holding,
The Seek Compact imagers are not designed to work with the opposite platform, even with the use of an adapter. There are slight hardware differences between the cameras for iOS and those for Android. The Android cameras lack a component necessary to run on an iOS device. It is theoretically possible that an iOS camera could work on an Android device, but Apple doesn't authorize the necessary adapter and we do not test against that scenario.
Some industrious customers may have been successful, but we haven't seen or heard any reports that suggest it will work.
Seek Support
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From memory, the significant difference between iOS and Android versions of phone based thermal cameras is the Apple ID chip that sits in the USB path. This chip is licenced by Apple to identify the accessory as a valid unit for use with Apple products. This is why Android accessories will be rejected by an Apple host as incompatible. In order to use an Apple version of an accessory on an Android platform, I believe you will need to bypass the Apple ID chip inside the camera. I recall someone attaching a USB cable to the camera side of the Apple ID chip and it apparently worked fine as an Android SEEK.
Of course, any attempt to do such a modification is totally at your own risk and you need steady hands and skills to work on these compact cameras. I suggest you do some research on the Apple ID chip, how it works and how it is connected into the USB/Lightning path.
Fraser
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The ID chip was first noted when Lightning was released.......
https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/lightning-apple/
Apple treat details of the ID chip as Corporate Confidential, so it is hard to find details of its implementation but some Googling may turn something up for you. I do not know whether it sits across the USB data and power lines, or in series with them. as such I do not know how it interacts with the accessory USB port or the host.
Fraser
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The device can not be detected by Android or PC if you use the lighting to micro usb adapter.
however ,the key is not the "chip" but the definition of the lighting connector.
the micro usb connector on the Seek is Vcc D+ D- GND,but the lighting connector on the Seek is Sb D+ D- GND.the pin Sb provides 5V only when IOS detect that is an OTG device.
if you do not want to disassemble your Seek ,you can just connect the pin 4 on the adapter to Vcc
this pic may help you:
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As you can see, I did not "connect the pin 4 on the adapter to Vcc",I just soldering directly on the FPC.
The red wire on the back side and that is connected to pin Sb.
Do this at your own risk :)
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so someone has to make a specific adapter ( but it's doable) .
and it would surely not work from the other side, buying the android device and use it (wit hany adapter) on an ios device.
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This looks similar to the ID chip system that Apple have now employed on their USB to Lightning cables. The data lines and 0V are not interfered with, but the chip sits in series with the power rail. Thank you for confirming the SEEK iOS interface design.
Regarding an android device running on an iOS device using an adapter cable..... Apple want to prevent this so the Apple ID chip (or a clone of it) must be present and correct for the iOS device to interact with the device plugged into the Lightning port.
Fraser
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The Apple ID chip is a Texas Instruments BQ2025. Undocumented, under NDA, but the parts around it(24, 26) use the TI-developed SDQ single-wire interface. Inside is just a gate array that does an improperly implemented challenge-response communication sequence.
More here: https://www.chipworks.com/ja/node/98 (https://www.chipworks.com/ja/node/98)
Just solder directly to the USB lines and ignore the TI chip, it should still function as a normal USB device without it.
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I changed the adapters. The version under ios worked with android.
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how can you get an adapter as a spare part (without buying a complete unit ...) ?
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I was given a few not working thermal imagers. About a third of failures can not be repaired (sensor array malfunction, damage to internal layers of conductors in the electronic board). For testing, you can solder the micro USB to the contacts on the board.
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Hi, has anyone attempted making such an adapter? Thinking about making one for Seek iOS converting it to USB-C.
I got a couple of lightening extension cords on Amazon (links below) and verified all of them work fine with Seek. Now I just need to figure out how to connect the female end to a USB-C male plug.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TCYQP98/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TCYQP98/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZJ13Z8L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZJ13Z8L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
@tonykids, thanks for the info you posted a while back.
So what you were saying is that, taking the lightening port receptacle view below with pin #1 being GND, so you were saying I need to feed both pin #4 & #5 with ACC 5V, is that so?
[8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1] (receptacle view)
I'm very new when it comes to lightening port. When the device (iphone) is charging, I measured pin #5 at 5V.
However when Seek is connected working, I measured pin #5 at 0V (very strange...), pin #8 at 3.3V and pin #4 at 2.97V. I'm afraid that the camera might burn up if feeding 5V to pin #4 and/or pin #5. Also what about pin #8? Any comments?
Thanks in advance!!!
The device can not be detected by Android or PC if you use the lighting to micro usb adapter.
however ,the key is not the "chip" but the definition of the lighting connector.
the micro usb connector on the Seek is Vcc D+ D- GND,but the lighting connector on the Seek is Sb D+ D- GND.the pin Sb provides 5V only when IOS detect that is an OTG device.
if you do not want to disassemble your Seek ,you can just connect the pin 4 on the adapter to Vcc
this pic may help you:
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I have both an iOS and Android version of the Seek Compact and was also trying to figure out a way to be able to use only one type between both platforms.
I purchased a Lightning Female to MicroUSB Male adapter on eBay :
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/8-pin-Lightning-to-Micro-USB-Socket-Converter-Adapter-Connector-Date-Charge-US/153499011862 (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/8-pin-Lightning-to-Micro-USB-Socket-Converter-Adapter-Connector-Date-Charge-US/153499011862)
I then carefully cut the side of the aluminum housing, pried it open and removed the moulded internal assembly, which I also had to carefully slice open on the side edge using a sharp knife. See the photo below.
I took photos and made a schematic. Per information in this thread, I jumpered MicroUSB pins 4 & 5 to enable USB OTG when plugged into an Android device.
I then jumpered pins 4 & 5 on the Lightning connector to allow continuous power to any device plugged into that socket.
My Seek Compact is now recognised by both my iPhone AND my Android phone and I can use it pointing forward or backwards on either device.
NOTE: I take no responsibility for anyone doing this modification as I have no idea how it will affect the devices it will be used with.
It works for me.
YMMV
Regards,
Larry
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Hi Larry,
Just brilliant!!!
I followed your instructions and got my CompactXR iOS version to work on a Samsung S7. I happened to have a female lightening to micro USB converter with me, exactly the same as yours.
Somehow it didn't work first for me after the soldering, and I had to wiggle the connectors a bit to get the camera to register in the app (which might explain why my previous attempt had failed), after that it was all smooth.
Thank you so much for sharing this! :-+ :-+ :-+
I have both an iOS and Android version of the Seek Compact and was also trying to figure out a way to be able to use only one type between both platforms.
......
My Seek Compact is now recognised by both my iPhone AND my Android phone and I can use it pointing forward or backwards on either device.
Larry
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hello how can i get this ouput
i have seek compact pro what lens did you use?
thank in advance
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LarryR,
Your post is very timely as I recently purchased a Seek Thermal Compact iOS with which to tinker. I have both iOS and Android tablets to try it with and your post lead to me buying some of the Lightning to Micro USB adapters to modify.
I have the Windows SDK for Seek Thermal imaging cores and the SDK manual states that it works with all Seek Thermal USB output cores and the Dongle Cameras. It further advises that the iOS dongle cameras will be identified as such but will work with the SDK under Windows just fine. As you have shown, it is just a case of bypassing the iOS “identity and power rail management” system. I have a FLIR One G2 iOS and will have to see if that will work on an Android platform with the adapter. I think the USB ID is different between the versions though, so much depends upon the promiscuity of the driver software. The Seek Thermal driver is very promiscuous and not fussy about what Seek hardware it hooks up with ;D
Fraser
Fraser
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Hi Fraser, I'm curious about using the Seek iOS with their Windows SDK. Can you kindly let me know if you are successful accessing the device using LarryR's converter? TIA!
I have the Windows SDK for Seek Thermal imaging cores ......
Fraser
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Will do :)
Fraser
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I can't get my adapter to work between my Seek Compact Pro IOS to Android micro. I double check the connections (I can solder well). The camera works on an apple phone.
Not sure what to try next? The "wiggle" trick sounds suspect. Maybe add a pull-up/down resistor instead of a short?
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I would be very surprised if any of these adapter works ...
You'd better sell it, and buy one for android !
I'm pretty sure the lightning port on iOS devices is simply a USB port with a different shaped connector (a connector shape unique to iOS devices). I know it has more pins than USB, but those are just like audio headphone output line, microphone input line, and some other stuff like that. The data lines on a lightning port are using the USB protocol, as far as I know. That's why it's so easy for a company (such as Seek Thermal) to make both Android and iOS versions of a device. They just need to swap the connector on their device, without redesigning the entire circuit.
Using a simple adapter like a USB-micro to lightning adapter should be able to easily convert the device from an iOS one to an Android one. Fundamentally, the device itself is a USB device, just with a different connector on it, based on which type of smartphone it's intended to be connected to.
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Ben321,
The iOS versions use an Apple approved ID chip and this identifies the accessory as legitimate to the iOS host. The chip also controls the power supply to the accessory. This is why the chip power supply control has to be bypassed.
Fraser
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I found that the microUSB end part is just slightly short and I have to remove my protective cover on my cellphone to ensure a good connection - and the cover on my phone is only about 1mm thick, so..poor quality control, I guess.
I can't get my adapter to work between my Seek Compact Pro IOS to Android micro. I double check the connections (I can solder well). The camera works on an apple phone.
Not sure what to try next? The "wiggle" trick sounds suspect. Maybe add a pull-up/down resistor instead of a short?
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@Fraser:
Hi, i read this with some exitement :-)
I can get a fantastic offer for a CompactPro FF iOS and a less fantastic for the Androis version.
Did you checkm is the USB ID different from iOS to Android or is it just the same?
Thank you :-)
Ender
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Well, i bit the bullet and bought a Compact Pro FF with Lightning Plug.
I was able to mod the Lightning to microUSB as decribed, THANK YOU!
The ID chip got horribly hot, i simply unsoldered it and its working fine now without hot spots :-)
Thanks!!!
P.S: USB-C Adapter next, already tried but failed, although moving the resistor for CC from +5 to GND its not working as OTG, any idea?
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Well, pretty much talking to myself here, nevertheless, maybe its of interest to someone later.
Here are USB id's of 3 different Seek:
Seek Compact UW-AAA micro USB: PIR206/iAP 0x289d 0x0010
Seek Compact Pro FF LQ-AAAX Lightning: PIR324/iAP 0x289d 0x0011
Seek Compact Pro FF UQ-AAAX micro USB: PIR234/- 0x289d 0x0011
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Hi all!
I recently switched from Android to iOS. is there a way to use Seek Compact micro USB version with iPhone with some adapter?
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Unfortunately this is not possible as the camera needs to be fitted with the Apple ID chip that is not present in the non iOS versions. You could try to course a faulty Seek iOS version and transplant the required cable, Apple ID chip and connector assembly into your working camera unit.
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Hi!
I found several adapters which allow to connect lighting based headphones to android phone.
Will Seek Thermal work with such adapters?
From ugeen - https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003086720291.html (https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003086720291.html)
from aniker - https://www.amazon.com/Anker-USB-C-Lightning-Audio-Adapter/dp/B07R6MKJZH (https://www.amazon.com/Anker-USB-C-Lightning-Audio-Adapter/dp/B07R6MKJZH)
from magnotek - https://www.amazon.com/Mangotek-Lightning-Certified-Headphone-Connector/dp/B0936NK2WT/ (https://www.amazon.com/Mangotek-Lightning-Certified-Headphone-Connector/dp/B0936NK2WT/)
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Check out https://www.dcddcc.com/blog/2018-11-10-retrofitting-the-seek-thermal-compact-with-a-usb-type-c-connector-using-3d-printing.html (https://www.dcddcc.com/blog/2018-11-10-retrofitting-the-seek-thermal-compact-with-a-usb-type-c-connector-using-3d-printing.html) for some hints on USB-C
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I just successfully adapted my iOS (lightning) Seek Thermal to usb-micro.
Thanks to tonykids for the directions.
I used one of these lighting female to male usb-micro adapters: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RHGS3NB (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RHGS3NB)
I used a dremel tool with cutting disk to slice and remove the metal coating, then carefully cut and peeled the soft plastic liner.
The pin configuration is exactly the same as in LarryR's post, so I soldered the same as shown there.
I have only basic skills, so I'm shocked that it worked, but I must have gotten lucky with the soldering iron.
It seems to work fine on my old Android USB-micro tablet.
Next step, I hope to get a USB-micro to USB-C adapter and see if I can plug it into my USB-C android tablet.
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Quick Update. I have now managed to get my iOS (lightning) Seek Thermal to work on my USB-C tablet.
As described earlier, I created a lightning to USB-Micro adapter as described by tonykids. I then purchased a USB-Micro to USB-C adapter that specifically supported USB OTG. This one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I0ZAJXO. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I0ZAJXO.) By chaining them together my Seek now works on my USB-C Android tablet!
Thanks All.