Author Topic: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera  (Read 31925 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
The perils of buying cooled thermal cameras

As some readers will already know, I am a user and collector of thermal camera technology.
At last count I own 39 thermal cameras of varying technologies and ages.
My favourite cameras are those from the FLIR PM industrial series and some of the NEC AVIO models.

I already own one cooled camera, the FLIR Scientific SC3000 that uses a Stirling cooled Quantum Well imaging array. When I say ‘cooled’, I do not mean temperature stabilised, that is very different. A cooled camera uses either Liquid Nitrogen or a closed circuit Stirling Cooler that produces temperatures approaching -200C. At one point in time there were cooled scanning cameras that used Peltier cooler stacks to cool a single pixel detector to -70C, but these are long obsolete technology.

Cooled thermal cameras pre-date uncooled Microbolometers, but are still made and used for demanding situations where very low noise images are required without all manner of software manipulation algorithms that could corrupt the data. Such cooled cameras are very expensive to purchase and run. The Stirling Cooler alone costs around $15000 to the OEM and RICOR are a major player in that market.

 ( http://www.ricor.com/innovation-technology/stirling-cooling-technology/  )

Why are they expensive to run ? Well they are a very high performance machine that contains pistons, seals and a gas fill of Helium that is at enormous pressure. Helium molecules can escape past seals and even through the thick metal shell of the cooler. This means that over time the Helium Fill pressure drops as Helium gas escapes from its captivity within the cooler. Mechanical wear in the precision components also leads to a drop in performance. It is not unusual for a Stirling Cooler from the late 1990’s to require a complete rebuild every 2000 operating hours. Stirling Coolers are usually rebuilt when they need a new fill of Helium. This used to cost me around £5000 when FLIR offered the service. It is most definitely not an amateur DIY proposition as ultra-pure(UP) Helium at pressures in excess of 200psi is used.  So every 2000 hours or few years (depending upon the Helium leakage rate, you have to spend around $7500 on the camera.

When looking to buy a thermal camera it is wise to investigate the technology that resides within, or else you may make a costly mistake. Many older thermal cameras are advertised on eBay as ‘unable to test’ or ‘sold as seen’. Be wary of such cameras and investigate why they are described as such. In many cases it is because they require liquid nitrogen to be poured into their internal Dewar (vacuum flask cooling chamber). Liquid Nitrogen is a very inconvenient consumable to need for your cameras use. Without it, the camera is a paperweight. If the camera is equipped with a Stirling Cooler , there is the distinct possibility that the cameras cooler is either faulty or has lost its Helium Gas fill, rendering it incapable of cooling the sensor array. Again, this results in the camera becoming a paperweight. You could have the cooler rebuilt, but I know of no cheap way to achieve this and such professional services still cost many thousands of Dollars, and the providers of such services are few and far between (usually return to OEM only), Many OEM’s no longer support such obsolete products.
 
If a Stirling cooled thermal camera is found in working condition, be aware that it is a bit like an unstoppable egg timer, with its coolers life decreasing every day as the Helium escapes. Some coolers continue to work many years beyond their predicted life, whilst others fail more quickly. Even NASA have this trouble with their space rated Stirling coolers used for vehicle instrumentation cooling. Helium leakage can vary from one cooler to the next and some will remain working after 15 years, whilst others have lost enough Helium after 5 years to cause failure.  Cameras that were used in labs may have received a rebuilt cooler several times during their life. If possible, establish when the last cooler was fitted. That is not the last calibration data so do not be confused into thinking that calibration involves a new cooler or re-gas.

Some types of cooled camera have very hard lives. Namely those used in the military and CCTV applications. The coolers were often running for many hours and suffered mechanical failure before the Helium Fill was lost (bearing failure is a common issue in the Stirling cooler mechanics). With the introduction of new, and more reliable, uncooled TIC technology, many such cameras were consigned to the ‘Stores shelf’ or disposal basket. These cameras are unlikely to be operational and should be avoided.
 
There is a saying in the UK…… “do as I say, and not as I do”

I want to tell you a story.........are you sitting comfortably ?

I recently saw a very nice condition Inframetrics PM280E cooler thermal camera for sale on ebay for a starting price of £600. I was interested in this camera as it is a mid-wave unit and this example was complete with the very expensive High Temperature filter. This may be attached to provide use up to 1500C. If I am truly honest, I have never liked the Inframetics PM series (very different to the FLIR PM Series). They did not seem as neatly designed in some ways. By the way PM prefixes usually just mean a series for ‘Preventative Maintenance’ . Both Inframetrics and FLIR had their own PM series camera and things got more confusing when FLIR absorbed Inframetrics into its ranks. But that’s another story.

Anyway, back to the Camera in question…..

I contacted the seller to establish some facts about the camera. It was apparently in excellent condition with all accessories and the important optional ‘HT’ filter. It was said to be in working order and the cooler was working OK. I asked if the Maintenance warning was flashing in the display and was told it was not. This is important as the warning indicates that the camera needs a service. If this has been ignored it does not bode well for the coolers maintenance. I satisfied myself that the camera was operational and advised the seller about the perils of buying a Stirling cooled camera.

We agreed that if the camera did not sell on eBay, we would discuss a mutually acceptable price for it. The camera did not sell and I spoke with the seller again. He understood the risk of me buying the camera and asked for an offer. I offered £300 and he accepted. A great deal some might think (me included).

The camera arrived and was in its posh flight case complete with all accessories and three batteries. I powered the camera via its mains adapter and the colour viewfinder burst into life. It immediately indicated “Maintenance suggested” at the bottom of the screen  >:(……. I got that awful sinking feeling that you get when you think you have been conned. I left the camera running to complete its cool-down cycle.

A camera with a healthy cooler will take between 5 and 7 minutes for the cooler to get to operating temperature at the ‘cold finger’ (the attachment point to the sensor array). As the coolers Helium Fill diminishes, with associated lowering of gas pressure, the cooler takes longer to reach the operating temperature. A camera that takes 15 minutes, or more, to complete the cooling cycle needs a Stirling cooler service. My PM280E was still trying to reach operating temperature after 40 minutes…..there is insufficient Helium left in the cooler for it to do its job. It valiantly tried but failed to ever meet its target temperature. In STAR TREK speak….”Its dead Jim”

OH cr*p was my response to this discovery. I had a lovely condition cooled thermal camera that promised so much but was incapable of cooling its sensor array. B*gg*r £300 wasted. It was a cash 'sold as seen' deal so there will be no refund coming my way any time soon.

I advised the seller of the situation but, as expected, no response. His view is likely that it worked to the best of his knowledge (which was minimal on thermal cameras). My huge mistake was not getting him to email me pictures of the camera actually displaying a thermal image. I was not on the ball this time (others things on my mind), too trusting, and I have got myself burnt. You live and learn. I am telling this rather embarrassing tale in the hope that it prevents others making the same mistake.
 
The bottom line is...... I recommend you do not buy uncooled thermal cameras unless you know an awful lot about a cooled cameras history and that it has a newish cooler fitted. Without such knowledge you risk buying a turkey, like I have just done.

Remember..... if a cooled cameras Stirling cooler fails……. It’s is just a posh paper weight !

I believe in KARMA and in my world I will not waste precious time chasing the seller or worrying about my loss. It could have been far worse as I have spent more than a £1000 on cameras in the past. This is my first mistake in 39 TIC purchases, so I have not done badly. I bought a beautiful condition FLIR PM575 for only £150 a few months ago so such bargains offset this loss.

What of the PM280E ?

Its fate is yet to be decided. I may sell it as spares, or break it up as a parts donor. It may just sit in my collection as a reminder of getting greedy and its potential consequences. That alone is probably worth £300 to me.

An interesting side note for thermal camera fans….. the 16 Degree lens on the PM280E is not made with Germanium lenses. It uses two large ZnSe or ZnS lens elements, the front lens element having what look to be Fresnel rings on it. I knew some military lenses contained ZnSe or ZnS lens elements internally but this is the only camera that I have seen that uses them for the first two elements. ZnSe and ZnS both have excellent bandwidths and transmission figures. There is a conventional Germanium lens in the cameras bayonet mount, and this forms part of the lens system that may have other interchangeable lenses placed in front of it, much like the AGEMA 880 lens system. Part of it is in the lens barrels and part is fixed in the camera body. Modern thermal cameras with interchangeable lenses tend to change out the whole lens assembly right up to the microbolometer as they use smaller or cheaper lenses in their construction. Germanium is so expensive that OEM's tried to reduce its quantity in the optional lens barrels as much as was possible.

Be careful out there  ;)

Aurora
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 05:45:57 pm by Fraser »
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 
The following users thanked this post: TiN, george.r

Online daqq

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2302
  • Country: sk
    • My site
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 01:24:01 pm »
Wow! Thanks for the text, I learned quite a lot.

I don't suppose you'd be able to hack together a replacement for the cooler module, say, just replace the whole block with a liquid nitrogen holder?

You'd get a working-ish, if impractical camera. Though you do not suffer apparently from a lack of them  ;)
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
+++Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++
 
The following users thanked this post: LWIR-Microscop-Man

Offline Chanc3

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 439
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 01:31:24 pm »
Could you not take him to small claims? Or is that too much effort?
 

Offline BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7547
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 01:53:50 pm »
Saved, bookmarked n subbed ... thank you.  :-+

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 01:57:51 pm »
@Daqq,

No desperation to get this camera working  ;)

The construction of Dewar and Stirling cooled cameras does not lend itself to hacking the modules.

With a Dewar camera, the most common detector is the single pixel type which views the output of a scanning optical block. The detector die is actually part of the Dewar and is also inside the vacuum. This avoids condensation issues.

The Stirling cooled camera staring sensor array is an integral part of the cooler module. When you look at a TIC Stirling cooler you will see the large 'cylinder head' like assembly and at right angles to that you have the secondary piston housing that does the cooling of the sensor array.  The sensor array is attached to the secondary piston permanently via the 'cold finger' and the whole lot is placed in a vacuum to prevent condensation and improve performance. The Stirling cooler can only cool a very small mass to approx -200C. Efficiency is greatly improved by an insulating vacuum. If you try to remove the sensor array from the 'cold finger, it will be destroyed.

When a Stirling cooler cannot be rebuilt and has to be replaced, you have to purchase the whole assembly including a new sensor array. The TIC is then recalibrated to take account of the new sensor array characteristics. It looks like my PM280E had a new cooler fitted in 20002 as I have the calibration disk from that repair.

I attach some pictures of Stirling coolers so that you can see what I am talking about.

P.S. Liquid Nitrogen is very hard to obtain in the UK. I have an Agema 880 which I wanted for sentimental reasons (it was the first thermal camera I ever used). It was gifted to me but will never run again due to the lack of Liquid Nitrogen.

Here is a video of a stirling cryo-cooler running with its cold finger exposed (no sensor array fitted as it is not from a TIC)



Aurora
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 02:01:49 pm by Aurora »
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 02:09:08 pm »
@Chanc3,

Its not worth pursuing. It was a Gentleman's agreement.

Not being flippant about £300 but if I am honest, life is too short to waste chasing such a sum. It is not as though I did not receive something for my money. The lens and HT filters are worth more than £300 anyway so if I feel inclined I can recover my money by selling the set piecemeal.

I just wanted others to realise how risky it is to buy these particular camera technologies, even if cheap.

Aurora
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline bookaboo

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 728
  • Country: ie
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 03:47:40 pm »
Thanks for the warning Fraser. To salvage the dead camera could you rip the insides from it and mount something like the 160x120 lepton or a hacked E4 module inside? Im thinking the high quality lens would add much to these sensors.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 03:58:52 pm »
@bookaboo,

The Germanium lens will be AR coated for Mid-wave energy so that would need to be replaced for Long Wave microbolometer use. The ZnSe/ZnS lens is wide band and would work fine with an LW microbolometer core.

Its more work than I would want to do though. I am somewhat spoilt in that I have many thermal cameras and also some thermal camera repairs that are more deserving of my time.

Good idea though  ;)

Aurora

If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline Alphatronique

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: ca
    • Alphatronique Inc.
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2015, 04:24:49 pm »
Hi

since it already a paperweight ,you may try to add extra gas to it and run it until bearing or seal failure  >:D

the good question is how many gas to add and how to add it  :-//
Marc Lalonde CID.  IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.   www.alphatronique.com
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2015, 04:27:27 pm »
I am sat here drinking a cup of tea and reading about re-gassing car A/C systems. They are talking about 210psi in those systems. I am not used to dealing with A/C's so the pressures sound a nightmare, but from what I have read they are normal and manageable even for the DIY enthusiast.

Can you see where I am going with this yet ? I am both a mechanical and electronics engineer so provided I use my old grey matter, I may be able to come up with a way of re-pressurising the PM280E Stirling Cooler with Helium. I am aware that I need UP Helium rather than dirty old Balloon Helium so that will need some tracking down and renting of a bottle. Hoses and gauges for car A/C re-gas should be OK by the looks of it (ebay here I come  ;D ) but there will be one major challenge that I must overcome.  Connecting the gas line to the female threaded receptacle of the Sterling Cooler. From memory, the filler port is 'just' a threaded hole with a conical seat at the bottom. Once filled with Helium, a special threaded seal screw is driven down until it seals against the seat. It is a metal to metal seal to avoid Helium leakage. Hmmmm sounds challenging !

I have nothing to lose and everything to gain if this can be achieved and the cooler recharged with Helium. I can then re-fill my FLIR SC3000 cooler when the time comes for such. This definitely sounds like a project for the future though. I will see how much it is likely to cost and decide whether to proceed based on economics.

Aurora
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 06:13:17 pm by Aurora »
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 04:31:56 pm »
@Alphatronique,

Great minds think alike  :-+

This is also an opportunity for me to learn about re-gassing refrigeration systems :-)

What I am unsure about at the moment is whether it is essential to vacuum the system down before adding the Helium. Maybe on such a small unit I can get away without doing so ?

Aurora
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline mikerj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3238
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2015, 04:47:15 pm »
Its not worth pursuing. It was a Gentleman's agreement.

A shame that only one gentleman was involved in this transaction, but that's eBay for you :(
 

Offline Alphatronique

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: ca
    • Alphatronique Inc.
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 05:51:55 pm »

that may price less to see the head of the local machine shop  when ask  for surface finish  for gas tight metal to meal for helium  :-DD  :scared:  :popcorn:
Marc Lalonde CID.  IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.   www.alphatronique.com
 

Offline Kevman

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 146
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 06:57:06 pm »
I don't know why 210 psi would sound like a nightmare- its really no big deal (the off pressure on my grandfather's home air compressor is 200). Its certainly not uncommon. All but the crappiest of rubber hose can handle it, and I don't know that I'd call it dangerous in any capacity.

Remember that welding and other gas tanks are usually like 2000+, vehicle fuel and oil pressure can get higher. And waterjets can hit 90,000.

You may be able to rent a vacuum pump from your auto parts store. Its pretty much required any time you empty a car's AC unit use a vacuum pump. It won't get you high vacuum but it'll certainly get most of the air out.
 

Offline Alphatronique

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: ca
    • Alphatronique Inc.
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 07:04:28 pm »
problem it that it not air  but helium   ,that so tiny that pass/diffuse trough rubber

so everything start to be quickly complex when deal whit helium and specially when need to seal it for long time
Marc Lalonde CID.  IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.   www.alphatronique.com
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2015, 07:09:23 pm »
@Kevman,

I have to agree with you, 210psi is not that bad when you look into it. It just sounded a lot compared to my car tyres  ;D The actual pressure of the fill is 260psi. I checked and BOC supply small Helium cylinders that are pressurised to 200 BAR (2900psi !) Plenty high enough for the task  ;D

This is a journey of discovery for me  ;)

Aurora
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2015, 07:12:32 pm »
@Alphatronique,

Exactly. This is why these cryo-coolers are a bit of a maintenance liability. Helium is a bit of an escapologist and refuses to remain contained for long, even in a solid metal container.

Aurora
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 07:23:56 pm by Aurora »
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2015, 07:19:10 pm »
I thought I would give you guys a giggle......

A cooled camera to be avoided ?

Some time ago I saw a PM380 for sale on ebay. It was a spares or repair unit the like of which I have not seen before. The seller is known to me and asks silly prices for his items so the price was no surprise to me. I actually offered him $100 as I wanted the Stirling Cooler to dismantle. He counter-offered $280 ! What a joke. Needless to say I passed on it. I see that the unit has now sold.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Broken-Parts-FLIR-Inframetrics-ThermaCAM-PM-380-Thermal-Imager-Camera-Corpse-/231373351775?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35deed2b5f&nma=true&si=JD7hxzq%252Bx5kCpkIYZ1deuNE1gM8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

If he can sell that pile of cr*p for more than $100 there is still hope for my PM280  ;D It looks liek it has been exhumed from an underground resting place !

Take a look at the pictures.....suggestions on how it got into such a state invited  ;)

One careful owner ?  :-DD

Aurora
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 07:22:27 pm by Aurora »
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline artag

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1070
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2015, 07:26:31 pm »
@Daqq,


P.S. Liquid Nitrogen is very hard to obtain in the UK. I have an Agema 880 which I wanted for sentimental reasons (it was the first thermal camera I ever used). It was gifted to me but will never run again due to the lack of Liquid Nitrogen.

Aurora

It's not so difficult. The main problems are the delivery, and what you keep it in. You really need a dewar of your own. We've had regular deliveries (every 6 weeks) at our hackspace from http://mansfieldcryogenics.com/ for £500 per year. As I understand it, most of the cost is in the delivery - it doesn't make much difference how big your dewar is.



 

Offline ir.ukrm

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: ua
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2019, 04:40:55 pm »
I see a flame filter in the set, I wanted to know if you worked with it?
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2019, 05:00:02 pm »
No sadly I have not done anything with the flame filter. The two PM280’s are inoperable but I could test the filter with my Amber Radiance 1 or FLIR SC4000 as they are both SWIR. The problem is that it is quite a small diameter filter due to its intended deployment between the lens and the sensor array. As you likely know the filter enables viewing of the inside of boilers and furnaces that have flames present. Not a great deal of use in everyday scenarios.

Fraser
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline cnxunuo

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Country: cn
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2019, 10:55:47 am »
My photon HRC needs around 30 sec to cool, it seems the cold finger has smaller than usual thermal mass than older or newer models.
I once own 3 of them from a electronic waste dealer, however one had died before my hands due to helium leak.


 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2019, 11:35:06 am »
Cnxunuo,

It is so sad when an otherwise good condition thermal camera or core is rendered useless by a leak or low pressure in the Stirling cooler. I see that your coolers are the rotary type. If they suffer any form of mechanical failure it is normally pretty obvious from a change in the sound they make when running. They are never exactly quiet but the one I have with a failed bearing makes so much awful noise That I have to wrap the camera in a towel to attenuate it  :(

Helium fill loss can be checked by placing the cooler/camera in an environmental chamber (or DIY equivalent). If the camera can not achieve or hold the cold finger at less than 77K in an ambient temperature of 35C, it is in need of a recharge very soon. If it cannot achieve 77K at 20C it is toast and needs a recharge. If a camera with reduced Helium fill is placed in an environment that is 5C, it will sometimes achieve 77K in order to test other functionality. Reducing the environmental temperature to -5, -10 and -20C (in a freezer) will also sometimes get a sick cooler to 77K for testing. I did this with one of my PM280 cameras in order to check its other systems and FPA condition. The camera complained at -20C though as other systems did not like such a low temperature.

My SC4000 achieves 76K in less than 5 minutes so is nice and healthy. I note in the GUI configuration software that I can set the cold finger temperature at which the camera enables image collection. On my SC4000 it is set at 80K. Sadly if your Photon HR is only getting down to 80K and not 77K, or better, it is definitely due for a service. As I have already commented elsewhere, FLIR demand enormous sums of money to service these cooled cores and cameras.

I have yet to find anyone who has succeeded in refilling a thermal camera grade Stirling cooler with Helium and returned it to normal operation. Even those who have purchased the correct UHP Helium and rented the correct filling equipment have failed to restore normal performance to a RICOR cooler. I would love to hear of success stories but these coolers are not very common in the hobbyist arena and many hobbyists sensibly buy uncooled cameras to avoid cooler induced failure and so loss if investment.

Fraser
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 11:53:05 am by Fraser »
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Country: gb
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2019, 11:52:16 am »
Cnxunuo,

What software are you using to configure your Photon HRC core ?

The full GUI configuration utility that FLIR sent to me has all manner of useful factory configuration options hidden behind a password. I was very pleased to obtain that utility and already knew the service menu password to gain access to the deep configuration settings such as the cooler temperature threshold for imaging and the cooler information page that showed the hours run on the cooler.

The GUI configuration utility supports many cameras and cores, maybe even your Photon HRC.

Fraser
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline cnxunuo

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Country: cn
Re: Thermal Camera purchasing - The perils of buying a cooled camera
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2019, 12:11:32 pm »
Hi Fraser

the 80K seems to be a set point, as it very quickly get down to 80 and reduced its RPM to save energy, I ran my RICOR without feed back at full power, it can happily get down to 60k, I think its helium condition and bearing (I believe it's a air cushioned bearing) are fine, operating hours around 50, taken from a Russian mower gimble by myself. it is very very unexplained why a Russian gimble which uses russian fiber gyro and swiss motor, Chinese video ethernet encoder, but uses a flir core....

I used the online provided HRC software which is not compatible with any other core, it can perform service such as LUT calibration (there's 3 set of pre calibrated table to choose from and they give different noise patterns when booted, I think flir went thru the trouble of calibrating it 3 different times before shipping them out)

thanks for the information about other software, however as I am chinese and NOT allowed to obtain any itar related softwares, I don't want to get myself and you into trouble by trying the fascinating software you mentioned.

At a aviation show in China, I tried their knockoff version of ricor cooler with knockoff 15um pitch InSb FPA, cant tell a different between my flir one, it seems to be a direct copy,
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf