Pure Thermal 2 Lepton PCB by GroupGets - UPDATED title : Clone warning

[Fraser]

I suspect many readers of this sub forum will already be aware of the various PCB's that Groupgets offer to accommodate a FLIR Lepton thermal imaging core. I am posting this purchase for several reasons.

1. This is a neat little PCB that may find use with those who own a faulty FLIR One product and wish to use the Lepton Core from it as a web cam or other applications.

2. The price of this Pure Thermal 2 PCB (without Lepton) is normally $99 but a chap in the UK is selling them for £50 or less. I paid £45 for mine on an offer. The auction is here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Purethermal-2-I-O-board-for-lepton-sensors/264913675071?hash=item3dae15e33f:g:ts4AAOSwLfBfBxWX

3. Highlighting the PCB's usefulness for anyone who does not already know about its availability.

4. A question .... is mine genuine    The quality is somewhat lacking in areas !


So I saw these Pure Thermal 2 PCB's for sale in the UK a while ago. They were being offered with a Lepton Core and sold for significant sums of money. The PCB without the Lepton was then offered for sale for a still significant sum of money so I passed over the auction without much temptation. Recently I saw the PCB on offer for £45 and was tempted. That offer ended and the price rose to £50. This week I offered £45 and it was accepted. The PCB arrived today so decent delivery by the seller 

The Pure Thermal series of PCB's from GroupGets have been around in one form or another for a while. The latest models are the Pure Thermal 2 and Pure Thermal Mini. These latest releases provide a micro USB port for communications and programming, unlike previous models that required an active programming adapter. The layout component density of the Pure Thermal PCB 2 is pretty good but the Mini version shrinks it further for those tight for space.

I will not reproduce what the Pure thermal PCB is capable of as that is covered here:

https://groupgets.com/manufacturers/getlab/products/purethermal-2-flir-lepton-smart-i-o-module

As an open project the schematic and firmware is made available to everyone  Such an open project will hopefully encourage many projects that aim to meet various needs and get the best out of the Lepton Cores. The PCB supports all versions of Lepton core, including the radiometric versions. There is much scope for software development here 

Groupgets provide plenty of documentation and software builds for the Pure thermal series of PCB's and they have already appeared in projects like the DIY thermal camera that was detailed on this forum. If you have an Lepton that is not usable in its current host, one of these little PCB's may enable use of that dormant core. It is VERY unusual for the Lepton core to fail in the FLIR One Cameras unless heavily abused in some way.   

So moving on to my question about my unit being genuine ? In an open project like this, does "Genuine" actually mean anything I wonder. The seller states that he bought a number of Lepton Cores and Pure thermal 2 PCB's and did not need them all. This may well be completely true but a little voice in my head wonders whether these are clone PCB's as the finish is not as I would have expected from GroupGets. The Micro USB socket is slightly off angle and one shell securing tab is left unsoldered. The PCB cutting appears crude and has left glass fibre strands sticking out down the edges. This may well be the quality of the genuine GroupGets boards but I have no way to know except to write to GroupGets and ask. Personally I do not care though as I bought the PCB at a reduced cost in order to experiment with it. If its processor works as expected and the PCB works I having nothing to complain about 

All I will say is that the UK seller is providing these PCB's for around half what one would cost from the USA. Make your own mind up as to whether they are worth buying 

I attach some pictures of the diminutive Pure Thermal 2 PCB and a size comparison to the FLIR ONE G2 camera PCB. As shown, this is in with my test F1G2 and F1G3 as it will be used for testing Lepton cores and possibly a project that I have in mind for when I get the time to play.

Fraser

[Fraser]

A project using the Pure Thermal 2 PCB 

https://www.hackster.io/tomasz-lewicki/ai-thermometer-2bacb4

Fraser

[Fraser]

Having compared pictures of the genuine Pure Thermal 2 PCB with mine, I am pretty certain that what I have been sent is a clone.

The writing next to the through hole connections is totally absent on my PCB and replaced with white blocks. As I often think, if it does not look 'right' and feel 'right' it likely isn't right !

The problem I do have now is deciding whether it is likely that a first grade microprocessor has been used on the PCB or some cheap knock-off  The poor finish of the PCB makes me think this is low budget build so a fake, or production reject microprocessor is not unlikely  Such processors can be a total nightmare when developing code as they can misbehave when the genuine grade 'A' part would not. Oh nuts

This PCB may be heading back to the seller as I do not like being mislead.

I have contacted the seller asking about the PCB's provenance.

Fraser

[SilverSolder]

Just out of curiosity, where would you get the Lepton chips from to populate the boards?  - is the price difference worth it compared to buying an assembled product?

[Fraser]

I have heard back from the seller. He has admitted that he did not buy the PCB's direct from GroupGets.com so it is possible that he has been sold clones. He says they work but I am unhappy about the general poor quality of production that makes me think it likely that the microprocessor is also fake or sub standard. The saying 'more trouble than it is worth' comes to mind. The seller bought quite a few FLIR Lepton cores for a project and just sourced the cheapest Pure Thermal 2 PCB's and I think he got diddled by a Chinese clone supplier  The supplier sold them as genuine GroupGets PCB's. My having raised my doubts about the PCB's authenticity has now got the seller wondering about them and he has halted sales and written to GroupGets. I cannot imagine GroupGets selling such shoddy PCB's especially with missing text annotations. These are like cheap knock-off Arduino boards that many of us have heard about. Nothing wrong with a good quality clone of an open source product  that uses genuine first grade parts, but a poor quality clone that uses fake or rejected processors etc is a potential nightmare and many wasted hours debugging code that will not run correctly.

If I get another Pure Thermal 2 , it will be from GroupGets. The seller is accepting this one back for a full refund 

Fraser

[Fraser]

@SilverSolder,

The Lepton cores are provided by GroupGets, Digikey and some other sources. You are correct.... a Pure Thermal 2 PCB at $99 plus the cost of the Lepton Core makes for an expensive project. Hence why I suggested the PCB as a possibility for using a Lepton core that is residing in a dead FLIR One camera (of which there are many !)

People buy the GroupGets Lepton PCB's for development work as FLIR do not offer a development kit for their Lepton cores. The Pure Thermal 2 PCB with its built-in processor enables people to develop their own software without the restrictions of the FLIR ONE SDK & APK and it is even suggested that the Pure Thermal 2 PCB could be used in a production product. I know some people object to Arduino and R-Pi boards being built into production products, but for small production runs it can make sense.

Basically the Lepton core is very versatile but only if your release it from within a FLIR product by using a breakout board or a development board like the Pure thermal 2.

Fraser

[Fraser]

I have just heard from someone with knowledge of these 'Pure Thermal 2' PCB's. They are indeed clones of the GroupGets.com boards. Made in China, they often contain fake STM32F412 processors and fail often 

Back it goes to the seller 

Fraser 

[Fraser]

I wonder if this was the original sellers advert on AliExpress ? Now shown as unavailable....

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33003485454.html

Fraser

[ir.ukrm]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Camera-2077-PURETHERMAL-2-ND-Lepton-Camera-Modules-Lepton-Thermal-Imaging-In/143749172044?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Is this board original or is it a fake?

[Fraser]

Sadly you cannot tell for certain. The picture looks like a stock photo grabbed from somewhere. Only one photo is provided which is odd. The description is suspicious as no mention of “GroupGets” and is generally poor. The price is lower than the official
Groupgets price and this is a warning sign if a seller is offering new stock. Note the seller includes the term “Camera-2077” almost as though it is a ‘brand’ or maker and to avoid claims of a misleading description. The rear of the PCB usually has the Groupgets logo on it and the Groupgets name. No image of the PCB’s rear is shown. Again, this is suspicious to me.

I would say the odds are high that you would receive one of the boards that are advertised on AliExpress for around $70. So yes, likely a clone and fitted with components that may not be of the quality used on the Groupgets product. The saving is not enough to justify the risk.

These PureThermal PCB’s have caught the eye of some entrepreneurial Chinese sellers who can see a large profit margin for the taking. It is much like the Arduino situation but the cloned board is smaller and relatively cheap to make if a fake processor is used. Compared to selling an Arduino UNO, these PureThermal PCB’s offer a huge profit margin to the supplier.

As I said previously, it is not so much the fact that the PCB is a clone, it is the unknown status of the processor used on it and the poor manufacturing quality.

Finally, looking at the sellers feedback rating of only 2 and none in the last year, that does not sound like a reliable source who would have legitimate stock of such a specialist PCB. It could even be a hijacked account.

My advice is to purchase from an official Groupgets.com source.

Fraser

[Fraser]

The clone PureThermal 2 was just dispatched back to the seller. Poor chap seemed genuinely unaware that they were not genuine GroupGets.com products. The more I looked at that PCB, the more it shouted ‘Fake’, and not a great one at that.
Caveat Emptor folks

I have to wonder why the writing in some areas of the PCB silk screen layer was blocked out..... maybe those connections do not work on the copy PCB due to use of a Fake processor

Fraser

[Fraser]

Refunded already 

Fraser