Author Topic: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images  (Read 37450 times)

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Offline the1snm

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2015, 09:10:59 pm »
Havaloc, thank you for posting those images  :) I've been looking a long time for some side by side comparisons between the F1G2 and Seek. I would love to see some outdoor distance comparisons, especially using the white hot palette on both since it seems the Seek produces more detail with that palette.  Whatever you can do at your own convenience. I really appreciate your effort, thanks again.

I too would love to see some outdoor images if anyone else has both units. I owned the Seek XR in the beginning part of this year and returned it due to poor span. I didn't know at the time that's what it was as I was a brand new thermal camera consumer and have been reading and learning as much as I can over the past 6 months before buying my next one. I have been very much interested in the Flir One G2 as a possible replacement for the Seek XR I had but always got mixed opinions. These photo's show me that for close ie indoor work the Flir One G2 seems superior. While i have a number of potential uses around the house I also have many outside in the 30-100 yards too.

Thanks in advance if someone is able to help out.
Steve
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2015, 12:37:53 pm »
I too would love to see some outdoor images if anyone else has both units.

I have only the Flir1G2:

here is a real live sample:

I saved with the SDK.app a upscaled Flir Radiometric JPG  and a real Lepton ThermalLinearFlux14BitImage.
Afterwards I rebuild with my old panorama script (see my footer) a real size 160x120 Lepton radiometric jpg.
You can load this sample jpg images in Flir Tools and compare the quality.


cropped images shot with Flir App, about 120x90 Pixel from Lepton sensor (please note the artefacts/patterns)
Flir makes a lens distortion correction of the Lepton sensor for best MSX overlaying  ;)



real "untouched" Lepton sensor 160x120 (with noise/grain because the temperature spread is only 4 Kelvin)


Offline the1snm

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2015, 07:09:16 pm »
OK so I bought a Seek XR from Amazon and it arrived last night (could resist the drop to $225 for a new one) and heard back from Flir yesterday on my inquiry as to when Amazon would get the new Flir One in stock. Instead answering my question they told me that Apple Store should now have them in stock (explains why everyone else is still out of them since Apple probably needed 5k units minimum to load in). Armed with that information I drove to the local Apple store on lunch and bought one and it's charging right now. Now on to the purpose for my post in this thread.

Over the next couple of days I'll be doing some tests with both units to determine which one of the two I'll be keeping. I plan on doing some distance shots like I was inquiring on earlier so I'll throw those results on here as well as some assorted around the house items. If anyone has something specific they are looking for please let me know and I'll do my best to accommodate. Please bear in mind I'm no Flir expert nor am I an electrical engineer or even close. I just want to contribute something to make up for the knowledge I've taken from this site.
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2015, 06:27:00 am »
Over the next couple of days I'll be doing some tests with both units to determine which one of the two I'll be keeping. I plan on doing some distance shots like I was inquiring on earlier so I'll throw those results on here as well as some assorted around the house items. If anyone has something specific they are looking for please let me know and I'll do my best to accommodate. Please bear in mind I'm no Flir expert nor am I an electrical engineer or even close. I just want to contribute something to make up for the knowledge I've taken from this site.

Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison.  I would really like to see some outdoors comparisons with both using the white hot palette and without MSX.  I would really like to see if the seek's extra pixel count can make up for the F1G2's better sensitivity and lack of noise when it comes to the overall image quality.  I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with:)
 

Offline havalocTopic starter

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2015, 07:33:09 pm »
 

Offline the1snm

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2015, 05:36:48 pm »
Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison.  I would really like to see some outdoors comparisons with both using the white hot palette and without MSX.  I would really like to see if the seek's extra pixel count can make up for the F1G2's better sensitivity and lack of noise when it comes to the overall image quality.  I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with:)

I didn't see your post till after I started some testing but I can try and whip another quick round up if this doesn't help answer your questions. I started the first night taking some quick images around the house. These first show the difference in my house, where the Flir found a nice clear cold spot in a corner and a poorly insulated light fixture the Seek struggled. The second images are a quick shot in my garage with the doors closed and lights out. The cars have been off for hours at this point.










These next images are of my dog in the backyard doing well what dogs do in the backyard. Distance in the pics is approximately 20 yards give or take. Both did fairly well here in detecting the key objects.







These next couple of shots were taken while my son and I were hunting and he was sitting in a tree stand a short distance away about 12-15 yards. Right around dawn he started getting approached by an unknowing squirrel who eventually got in the tree above him and nearly ran face to face with him. I include it to show the Flir's ability to detect small objects at distance. I didn't pull the Seek out for these tests as I had no reason to doubt it's capability at this distance and temperature span.





These next series of shots are the meat and potatoes of the distance tests between the 2 units. My son was about 150 yards or more from me and was facing me for these tests. As you can see the Flir One was able to see him but not really able to pick up his heat signature well. Sometimes he would blip on the screen but not often. I tried several different color pallets here to see if one was better than the other. The Seek was able to spot him better with some tweaking. First it was important to get the focus just right or it would be like he wasn't there. Next to get him to stand out I needed to use the Seek's high pass filter for a lack of a better name and set the threshold of temps to something like 60 degrees. When you do this though you really do lose the ability to see any other side detail. This is a feature I REALLY do wish the Flir One had especially with the MSX blending. It may be able to do this with the Lock Span option but I've not been able to get it to work well yet.











At the end of the day even though the Flir One doesn't have the distance capability which is a rather high importance piece of my desire for one of these all of the other things the Flir One does better just trump the Seek in my book. Even without the MSX the vastly superior sensitivity of the Flir One over the Seek makes it more useful all around. A great example of that is the picture showing the cold spot in my corner. When I looked for things like this with the Seek previously it was so muted like in the example above that it didn't even stand out. The Flir One has it there clear as day.
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2015, 12:26:26 pm »
The1snm, Thanks a ton for taking your time to do that comparison.  It was very helpful to hear your observations.  It's not too surprising the Seek XR did better on the long distance detection tests considering it has a narrow view zoom lens, but I'd have to agree that the FLIR consistently has a better image in most cases even without the benefit of MSX. If it's not too much trouble I would really like to see a comparison of something outdoors with good temp range and some hard edges (like the front of a house or a hot car or engine) in the white hot palette on both cameras and without MSX.  I keep seeing pretty impressive images being posted with the Seek that seem MUCH better than the majority of other Seek images like this one...

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xta1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/12142431_520619004782584_2144804393_n.jpg

And I want to see if the Seek really can produce that quality of an image and if so, how does the FLIR compare when viewing the same thing.  Thanks again for your help!
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2015, 10:57:34 pm »
I keep seeing pretty impressive images being posted with the Seek that seem MUCH better than the majority of other Seek images like this one...

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xta1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/12142431_520619004782584_2144804393_n.jpg

And I want to see if the Seek really can produce that quality of an image and if so, how does the FLIR compare when viewing the same thing.  Thanks again for your help!
It's likely that that image was taken in very ideal conditions (hot day = very hot car with lots of thermal contrast)
 

Offline the1snm

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #58 on: November 25, 2015, 11:02:06 pm »
I'll see what I can do tomorrow getting some more images for you. Regarding that link sent I'm a little dubious at first since it's such high detail and even the shadows stand out on the background. It almost looks like an image was converted to look like this. I've never seen anywhere near this kind of clarity on either of the 2 cameras.


Sent from my iPhone
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2015, 01:24:36 am »
I'll see what I can do tomorrow getting some more images for you. Regarding that link sent I'm a little dubious at first since it's such high detail and even the shadows stand out on the background. It almost looks like an image was converted to look like this. I've never seen anywhere near this kind of clarity on either of the 2 cameras.


Sent from my iPhone

Thanks, I really appreciate it:) yeah I thought the same thing.  It was posted on Seek's website on their community page though.  There also was another image posted that was framed a little different to where you could see more of the truck and in the iron palette.
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/12139870_1694730324092320_578038826_n.jpg
  If it was faked, it seems wierd to go through the trouble of faking two.  But it's definitely possible. There are others, like these...
https://youtu.be/g8B8Pr_WsuY
https://youtu.be/EkUwo2PTd28
https://media.getstorybox.com/v_3967c1f6-db99-46d8-9c1f-492da679ce10.jpg
https://media.getstorybox.com/v_37fd416d-7039-4a39-9a89-26ef4aa78df9.jpg
that are significantly better quality than most and encryptededdy is probably right that it's down to a high range of temperature.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 01:28:58 am by Redshift1340 »
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2015, 02:16:14 am »
Yeah, temperature and humidity can make a huge difference. Here is a example from my Therm-App showing dramatic differences looking at the same subject

This image was taken at night after a cold overcast day. Also very humid = the moisture in the air blocks a lot of IR light.


Whereas this image was taken in evening after a very hot and sunny day (ground stores a lot of heat). Dry weather also meant less IR light is blocked.
 

Offline ralphd

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2015, 02:23:55 am »
Im not impressed with Seek's 3.6 update for Android requiring permission to access call information.  Skipped the update for now, but more reason to switch to Cyanogen so I can restrict app permissions.
Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth. Einstein
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #62 on: November 26, 2015, 02:40:23 am »
Encryptededdy, yeah that's quite a difference.  I'm actually surprised the therm-app got that much detail out of a 3 degree Span on that first image.  Makes me want the therm-app even more haha.  So if the Seek can get an image of the quality of the ones I posted with a wide thermal span, I'm really interested to see what the F1G2 can produce when compared side by side looking at the same thing.  Because in those two videos taken in the cars for instance, the white hot filter on the Seek seems surprisingly detailed and I haven't been able to get anything that good out of my F1G2.  Seeing images like that made me wonder if I maybe should have bought the Seek.  Regardless, I am still very happy with my F1G2 :)
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2015, 03:03:58 am »
You'll never be satisfied with the one you have :). The "Other" one will always appear better.

I suspect those Seek images were probably taken on a hot sunny day, which would heat the inside of the car pretty dramatically.

FWIW here's another video from the Therm-App in a parking lot.



Don't switch from the FLIR One to the Seek, if you want to replace it, then replace it with a Therm-App or perhaps the new i3-ThermalExpert which will hopefully come in at a lower price than the Therm-App.

That said, Therm-App say they're going to have a black friday sale on their website - so keep an eye out for that!
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2015, 06:59:13 am »
Encryptededdy, yeah the grass is always greener I suppose  :). I agree, I'll be keeping the FLIR regardless. thanks for the heads up on the Black Friday deal!  I've wanted to get the Therm-app for a while (or a modded e4) but can't swing $1,000 right now unfortunately.  It produces a great image at that price point.  But I did have my eye on the i3 ThermalExpert too and I hope it comes in closer to $500 than a grand.  I thought it was supposed to be released in late October but I haven't heard anything about a new release date, I hope it's soon though.  Since you own the Therm-app, I was wondering, I've noticed that the Therm-app seems to produce a dark halo around hot subjects in the image that doesn't seem to be representative of actual temperature.  I heard in one owners video notice it and think it was heat coming off of a persons body heating the air around them, but that seems laughable to me as it was showing up around things like trees, etc. Do you know why that is?  I'm curious to know if it's common in microbolometers or considered a negative attribute to the Therm-app.  It's pretty apparent here in this video around the palm trees.
http://youtu.be/kBq6ixmVcCk
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 07:25:41 am by Redshift1340 »
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2015, 09:53:54 am »
That effect is common in Microbolometers with a BST sensor, however what's going on in the Therm-App is completely different (The therm-app doesn't use a BST sensor).

That artifact is a result of using the stock Therm-App app in "Night Vision" mode. This mode works to use image processing to exaggerate temperature differences for a more detailed image at night. Sometimes the image enhancement goes a bit overboard and causes the halo. However I think this is on purpose and can be useful as if you had, say, a warm person on a background with only slightly lower temperature, it would be very hard to see the person. However, with the image processing, the slightly warmer person will have a black halo around it which makes them much easier to detect.

Personally I use the "ThermAppPlus" app on the Play store, which has other image processing enhancements for lower noise (as I generally use the Therm-App for thermography), however I guess the night vision mode in the stock app results in increased detail.

I'll post a comparison soon.
 

Offline Redshift1340

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2015, 02:23:55 am »
Encryptededdy, thanks for clearing that up for me.  The therm-app's detail is incredible for its cost, it's too bad the Black Friday deal was only for shipping :(  I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer and see how the ThermalExperts stacks up with it. 
Another thing I've noticed specifically with the Therm-app is when the camera is moved around, like in your parking lot video, there is a screen-tearing effect that makes it look like its underwater.  Does that get annoying for you or do you get used to it?  I do notice the effect isn't present or at least as noticeable on the 25hz model.  I wonder if it's to do with reducing the frame rate to 9hz on the base model and if it's something that can be addressed in software.
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2015, 04:43:48 am »
Encryptededdy, thanks for clearing that up for me.  The therm-app's detail is incredible for its cost, it's too bad the Black Friday deal was only for shipping :(  I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer and see how the ThermalExperts stacks up with it. 
Another thing I've noticed specifically with the Therm-app is when the camera is moved around, like in your parking lot video, there is a screen-tearing effect that makes it look like its underwater.  Does that get annoying for you or do you get used to it?  I do notice the effect isn't present or at least as noticeable on the 25hz model.  I wonder if it's to do with reducing the frame rate to 9hz on the base model and if it's something that can be addressed in software.
You get used to it, but I don't really use it for Night Vision so I can't really comment on that.

It's due to how they reduce the frame rate to 9Hz - Cameras like the FLIR One or FLIR E4 read out at 30fps then drop frames to get 9 fps.

The Therm-App reads out at 9fps, therefore taking 1/9 of a second to scan the whole sensor, thus leading to the jello effect. Personally I would much prefer it if they read out at 30fps then just dropped frames, however they claim that this way you're less likely to miss something (as everything being read from the sensor is displayed). I guess that's technically correct, but it certainly looks ugly.
 

Offline in.Vitro

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #68 on: November 28, 2015, 02:16:15 pm »
Guys, I have a Problem with my flir one  :-\

I bought this baby yesterday, charched it and it worked well! but today as i unplugged it from the power brik it wont turn on  :-//

does anybody knows if there is a "lock"-mode on this device? :(


edit: when I plug it on the power brick, the green indicator-light stays dark :(
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: SEEK vs Flir One G2 Images
« Reply #69 on: November 28, 2015, 03:51:23 pm »
Answered in your OTHER post asking this same question.
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 


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