Author Topic: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras  (Read 7184 times)

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Offline Ben321Topic starter

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By using a completely different process, it doesn't require that the detector chip get welded to a readout chip, one pixel at a time (part of what makes InGaAs SWIR cameras SO EXPENSIVE). Instead, a layer of special detector material called CQD (the company website doesn't say what the acronym means) onto the silicon CMOS chip itself, forming SWIR sensitive photodiodes on a single chip that doesn't need to be welded to another chip. They don't offer online prices, so I'll need to ask for a quote, but they do say it significantly reduces the price of their SWIR cameras. Their website is http://www.swirvisionsystems.com/
I'm going to contact them and ask for a price list of their cameras.

Update: I've contacted them and am waiting for a reply.

By the way, here's their datasheet https://www.swirvisionsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/SWIR-Vision-Systems-Acuros-CQD-SWIR-Camera-Data-Sheet-20190116_web.pdf
Sensitivity is from 400nm to 1700nm. So It's Vis+NIR+SWIR. Looking at its quantum efficiency graph, its sensitivity seems to peak at 400nm, which is strange. That means it is going to actually have significant sensitivity in the UVA part of the spectrum too (though their quantum efficiency graph doesn't show wavelengths below 400nm). How do they limit it to the Vis-SWIR range? I don't know, but maybe their cameras have a UV blocking filter.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 09:09:38 pm by Ben321 »
 
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Offline frogg

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2019, 01:04:33 am »
CQD = Colloidal Quantum Dot.

My guess is that they are using a nano-structure crystal that directly converts SWIR to electrons or visible light, like an advanced form of scintillator detector.
 

Offline Hyper_Spectral

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2019, 01:11:05 pm »
Looks like there was some significant development in 2016 regarding this tech:
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/75399/1/Hybrid%20organic%E2%80%93inorganic%20inks.pdf
 

Offline Hyper_Spectral

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2019, 01:12:44 pm »
Maybe for the HD resolutions, I doubt it'll be any more expensive than FLIR's offering
 

Offline Hyper_Spectral

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2019, 02:31:57 pm »
4K IR would be fricken sweet. We'll get there one day..
 

Offline Yansi

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2019, 03:08:50 pm »
This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras ... my skepticist strongly doubts it will be any cheaper for the end customer.
 

Online Berni

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2019, 03:30:39 pm »
Note that this wavelength range does not include thermal imaging at room temperature. This requires sensitivity around 10 000nm wavelengths.

This camera might be able to see a soldering iron glowing and that's about it.
 

Offline Ultrapurple

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2019, 06:27:03 pm »
Note that this wavelength range does not include thermal imaging at room temperature. This requires sensitivity around 10 000nm wavelengths.

This camera might be able to see a soldering iron glowing and that's about it.

I would go along with that. I have done a little work with SWIR in the region of 1000nm (a bit below red light) and I could just see a soldering iron set to 450°C. I discontinued the tests fairly quickly because my soldering iron was visibly glowing red and I didn't want to shorten its life.
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Online Fraser

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2019, 07:31:25 pm »
My Electrophysics 7290A covers up to 1.8um and is specified as providing thermal imagery above 250C.
Other, more modern, SWIR cameras claim thermal imaging above 100C. Many SWIR cameras cover 400nm to 1.7um and not the full SWIR band so it is worth checking specs carefully when looking to buy.

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 07:36:46 pm by Fraser »
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2019, 09:12:01 pm »
Where you can thermally image depends heavily on your instrument, it's sensitivity, the temperature of your surroundings and your requirements.  10 micrometers is by no means necessary at room temperature, or even when it is well below freezing.  At 1.8 micrometers and 23 C standard room temperatures thermal resolution will be limited, but not to red hot soldering irons.  While NEdTs of 4 or 5 C are not very impressive they can provide a useful thermal map of a PWB and reality will often be better than than.  You might have to live without the obligatory facial shot with glasses on and off, but it can still be usable.

(I haven't actually run the calculations for a narrowband instrument say from 1.4 to 1.8 micrometers, but feel confident that NEdT in the range mentioned could be achieved.)
 
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Offline Psi

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2019, 10:55:09 pm »
i find this bit interesting.
Quote
The cameras are classified as non-ITAR, EAR99 products
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Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2019, 12:04:45 am »
Looking at its quantum efficiency graph, its sensitivity seems to peak at 400nm, which is strange. That means it is going to actually have significant sensitivity in the UVA part of the spectrum too (though their quantum efficiency graph doesn't show wavelengths below 400nm). How do they limit it to the Vis-SWIR range? I don't know, but maybe their cameras have a UV blocking filter.

The absorption profile matches pretty well with PbS quantum dots, InGaAs might be possible but I haven't seen too many at that low of a wavelength.

The absorbance down to 400nm is likely from whatever they are using to cap/shell the QD. Shelling with an appropriate material increases the stability and performance of the QD notably. In fact, many designs incorporate a second shell in a Core/Shell/Shell-type motif to ensure the best performance, stability, and matching between materials.  In this case, if the material is PbS the most likely shell material would be CdS, which would explain the peak at around 400nm. The shell material changes based on the device, CdSe are normally capped in a CdSe/CdS/ZnS layout (sometimes CdSe/ZnS-only but the lattice mismatch tends to damage the CdSe core).
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 04:05:27 pm by PedroDaGr8 »
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Offline frogg

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2019, 12:02:52 pm »
i find this bit interesting.
Quote
The cameras are classified as non-ITAR, EAR99 products
Probably because the "defense" applications are not particularly as useful as LWIR :)
 

Online Fraser

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2019, 12:21:31 pm »
Au contraire, the SWIR spectrum is very much an area of military interest  ;)

http://www.sensorsinc.com/applications/military/swir-for-isr

https://alliedscientificpro.com/blog/welcome-to-our-blog-1/post/white-paper-short-wave-infrared-swir-for-surveillance-applications-in-defense-25

There are sensitivities surrounding this technology that the USA likes to control, where able.

Modern military surveillance systems are very much “multi-spectral” and utilise high quality Visible, NIR, SWIR and MWIR/LWIR Thermal camera systems. SWIR imagery is being digitally combined with that from MWIR or LWIR in order to enhance the identification capabilities of surveillance systems. SWIR is also a known detection system against some stealth aircraft, of which the USA are normally rightly proud and bullish about their covertness.

Then there is VLWIR imaging up to >15um with its civilian and military applications ..........   ;)


Fraser
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 12:45:59 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Ultrapurple

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2019, 01:42:31 pm »
As Fraser says.

It wasn't so long ago that camo netting only had to defeat the Mk 1 Eyeball. Then it became necessary to ensure it didn't show up unnaturally bright or dark in near-IR. Then along comes LWIR, changing the goalposts again. Add in other spectra and suddenly it becomes fiendishly difficult to fabricate a camo net that doesn't act as a dead giveaway at some wavelength or another.

The same is potentially true of everything an adversary may have. If there is, say, an item that shows slightly in each of LWIR, MWIR and SWIR bands then a moderately intelligent can look for a match on all three together and declare it a threat with much more certainty than would be the case for one channel alone.

The more technically sophisticated side has the advantage of being able to engineer its materiel to minimise its spectral signature now, thus obtaining a significant and long-lasting advantage over its enemies who would not only need to deploy new, low-signature kit, but in order to have any sort of chance they would also need to develop sensor technology that leapfrogs their opponents, who have already sorted out everything to meet the current state of the art.

Fraser mentions VLIR; I suspect it won't be long before deployable 'terahertz-gap' sensors are developed, meaning that nothing in the spectrum from radio to ultraviolet is 'safe'.

Superman's X-Ray Vision is probably just around the corner.

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Offline Psi

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2019, 09:39:08 am »
The ITAR rules controlling thermal camera technology are pretty old.
They were created when the technology was very advanced and almost no one had it.
Not all countries making IR sensors care about USA ITAR rules so any government that might want to buy high resolution, high fps IR cameras for military applications can do it pretty easily now.
I.E, The rules remain but they don't serve any real purpose to stop anyone any more

I doubt they will bother to take the time needed to rewrite the ITAR rules to cover this new SWIR camera tech and to then re-negotiation the new rules with other countries so they enforce it. There is no point.

So we can probably expect 1080p 60fps IR cameras using this newer tech to be easily available in the future while the older tech is still restricted under ITAR to 9fps

There could even be a push from Flir/Fluke to remove the IR sensor ITAR rules all together.
The companies invested in the old technology will not want to follow ITAR if their new competition does not have to.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 09:51:56 am by Psi »
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Offline Dubbie

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2019, 10:37:02 am »
Ben, have you received a quote yet? Very interested to hear the price.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2019, 11:28:51 am »
Psi,

I respect your viewpoint but I strongly suggest you do not test your theory in the real world. You will very likely get a very unpleasant surprise  ;) I will say no more but I do have inside knowledge. Respect ITAR and Wassenaar and you will be fine.

People talk about ITAR but do not forget the Wassenaar arrangement !

https://www.wassenaar.org/

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 11:30:26 am by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2019, 11:37:06 am »
Wassenaar Arrangement list.... Revised December 2018 ...... looks pretty current to me.

https://www.wassenaar.org/app/uploads/2018/12/WA-DOC-18-PUB-001-Public-Docs-Vol-II-2018-List-of-DU-Goods-and-Technologies-and-Munitions-List-Dec-18.pdf

Page 109 onwards applies.


About EAR99 .......

http://usexportcompliance.com/FAQear.htm


Fraser
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 11:54:33 am by Fraser »
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Online ebastler

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2019, 11:49:11 am »
Has anyone found patent applications or publications from this company which explain further details?

I am curious how the quantum dots actually work -- do they convert incoming light into visible-range photons or directly into electrons? How close is the CMOS architecture to a typical CMOS camera sensor? (Or is it indeed a standard camera chip, with just the quantum dot conversion layer added?)

The quantum efficiency and the noise level of their current products are somewhat disappointing. Regarding noise, I am surprised by the very high readout (?) noise baseline, which is there even at minimal exposure times. Yes, their chips are optimized for fast readout and are apparently uncooled, but why is the noise level that high?
 

Offline Psi

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2019, 12:03:48 pm »
Psi,
I respect your viewpoint but I strongly suggest you do not test your theory in the real world. You will very likely get a very unpleasant surprise  ;) I will say no more but I do have inside knowledge. Respect ITAR and Wassenaar and you will be fine.

I know it's still very active and enforced, like any law.
But the thermal camera part of it is enforced more because it's a part of the law than because it's actually needed.

I have no need to test it, the only thing i would use an thermal cam for is pcb repair, if i could afford one.
And thermal PCB inspection can be done with off the shelf gear.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 12:07:44 pm by Psi »
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Online Fraser

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2019, 12:07:20 pm »
Psi,

Again whilst I respect your point of view, it is at odds with mine, but then I was part of the ‘system’ that you believe ‘obsolete’ so no surprises there 😄 No problem though. If you became directly involved with exporting controlled technology you would become more familiar with the regulations and the continued need for them 🙂

On the US ITAR front, as Bill W has often reminded us, it is more commonly BIS that are involved in dual use technology imaging related regulations these days.

https://www.bis.doc.gov/

Fraser
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 12:09:38 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Psi

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2019, 12:08:58 pm »
It's possible i'm wrong, it has happened before.  :-DD
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Online Fraser

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2019, 12:10:54 pm »
We all have our views. None are necessarily “wrong”. It all depends upon where you are standing and specific scenarios  :-+

No worries  :)

Fraser
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Offline Hyper_Spectral

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Re: This company has figured out how to make cheaper SWIR cameras
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2019, 12:26:13 pm »
Psi,

I respect your viewpoint but I strongly suggest you do not test your theory in the real world. You will very likely get a very unpleasant surprise  ;) I will say no more but I do have inside knowledge. Respect ITAR and Wassenaar and you will be fine.

People talk about ITAR but do not forget the Wassenaar arrangement !

https://www.wassenaar.org/

Fraser

Interesting, for some reason Israel is not on the list.
 


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