Uni-t UTi260B

[Brexei]

A close-up image of an anti-mosquito window grid, using a 20mm FL50.8mm ZnSe close-up lens from Ebay.

Grid windows are very small, maybe a couple of mm!

[pedrokv]

I have this thermocamera since +-February and as it worked with no trouble that time, now it stopped to work. 14 days ago I bing it back to life via some factory resets, but now it seems to be dead. It boots, but then it doesn't distinguish hot or cold items, it shows flat picture with temperature around 34 degrees Celsius. Even when I point the camera at cooler wall or put hand in front of it. I have bought it from Aliexpress, I asked now the seller for solution. For the price it costed and especially for the price it costs now it seems to be okay to send it for repair back to China, I hope to see it again... I saw a youtube video - how to dismantle it, but I am not sure, if I will be able to repair it - for example if there is a bad soldering. Maybe the sensor is faulty. I also tried to google out a firmware to reflash, but I did not find any.

Any idea, guys?

Video:  https://youtu.be/dmF-TvwfUAk

[Bill W]

Still seems to have some picture noise, and as you say sensible temperatures.  As such I reckon the sensor and electronics are still OK

I'd think the shutter is stuck shut.

Did it used to click and now does not ?

Cannot help with disassembly method, hopefully you get a refund

Bill

[pedrokv]

Shutter is still clicking as I press it. But sometimes it is hard to take a snapshot, firstly I thought it is issue with the microswitch inside, now I think it has something to do with FW. 10 times I press shutter and nothing happens and on 11th attempt and later it works on first press.

Now I see it is also self-heating, after boot it shows 31°C, now 37°C and still rising.

[pedrokv]

Hmm, I switched to Lo gain and back, I heard some clicking sound from inside and now works. Guessing how long.

[Bill W]

Shutter is still clicking as I press it. But sometimes it is hard to take a snapshot,

Sorry should have been more precise in wording, 'Shutter' is an internal flag that does a periodic calibration, it is not anything to do with 'taking a picture'.

Looks like you kicked it into life with the gain switching - which also makes the camera do a periodic calibration.

The rising temperature is also what I'd expect for a stuck shutter flag, as the flag warms up the camera gets told it is looking at a warmer thing (just the thing won't get out of the way)

[pedrokv]

Sorry, English is not my native language.

Today I got message from Aliexpress seller KKmoon. He sent me link to youtube video-review & tutorial. 
And Uni-trend replied the same useful way: "Thanks for purchasing our products. Please contact your seller for more support. Thanks"

Both can be translated as "we have your money, bye."

[CANUK]

Hi,

I bought this unit a few days ago as my thermal camera on budget along a China PVD ZnSe D20mm FL50.8 lens. 
While waiting for delivery, I was looking for a nice macro lens holder.  (Definitely not paying 40 USD on Aliexpress for a 38.1mm ZnSe lens in a plastic shell.)

So, I found this nice 3D cover model https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4967196. I'm new to 3D modelling but decided to learn this in a weekend.  So I came up with this modified version to fit the 20mm ZnSe lens. I'm not sure about the dimensions but did my best with the models I found here and on thingiverse. I will have to confirm everything when I get my device.  Anyway, feel free to print it and give me feedback.

[Fraser]

Alex at NorthridgeFIX has just provided his review of the UTi260B that he is now stocking in his shop. Alex is a great believer in the use of thermal imaging to aid fault finding on modern electronics. He uses a FLIR E60 camera but has clearly looked into a more affordable model to offer to his YouTube following.

https://youtu.be/pbYWw5XwT5Y

Fraser

[Andrew LB]

Alex at NorthridgeFIX has just provided his review of the UTi260B that he is now stocking in his shop. Alex is a great believer in the use of thermal imaging to aid fault finding on modern electronics. He uses a FLIR E60 camera but has clearly looked into a more affordable model to offer to his YouTube following.

https://youtu.be/pbYWw5XwT5Y

Fraser

Too bad he wants $400 for the 260B

[Fraser]

The price of these budget thermal cameras appears to vary quite a bit at the moment. Aliexpress offer significant discounts on the claimed $440 normal price tag. In the UK the price from China is just under £300 delivered and including VAT.

NorthridgeFIx is a business however and he is offering the units from stock in the USA so it is to be expected that he has a mark-up on them. Some buyers want to purchase from a USA based supplier so might be happy with the price, especially if they are a business as I suspect a US to US purchase may be simpler for their accounts ? There is also the issue of a USA warranty as a faulty camera would be returnable to NorthridgeFIX as opposed to China.

Even $400 is a pretty good price for what a UTi260B offers the repair tech in terms of fast diagnosis of a laptop motherboard short diagnosis and repair. I suspect the professional tech could recover the cost of the camera quite quickly in terms of repair throughput and delivery from a USA supplier introduces that efficiency improvement sooner than ordering from China ?

From my perspective, if I did not have other thermal imaging cameras, the UTi260B or Infiray C210 cameras would be of greatest interest to me in terms of specification & performance Vs cost for general thermal imaging applications. The cheaper UTI-120S would also be of interest if finances could not stretch to the more expensive cameras. I have just seen that Uni-T are offering the UT-120S for less than £100 +VAT. Whilst the camera is limited to 120 x 90 pixels resolution….that is still an excellent price for a tech to gain a useable thermal imaging capability 

Finally, regarding Alex at NorthridgeFIX….. Alex is an astute businessman and privides an excellent insight into his repair work via his YouTube videos. Those videos help other techs and provide entertainment but Alex also sells his services and ‘plugs’ his tools shop in order to increase income from his channel. A smart and understandable business strategy as he does not charge for access to his video channel. Alex appears to be a shrewd businessman and has learned to declare a ‘no-fix’ before he invests unrecoverable labour hours into a ‘patient’. I am terrible for investing way more time into a ‘patient’ than it is worth and that is why I would be a terrible businessman in the repair industry ! Alex appears to carry out electronics repairs as a ‘cold business process’ whereas I am passionate about electronics repair and hate to admit defeat ! He knows enough theory to repair laptops, USB drives, Mobile phones and other electronics and has learned the likely failures present on these through ‘on the job’ experience and the study of electronics repair.. Along the way, he has identified tools that assist his work and efficiency. That is a bit different to me….I was formally trained in electronics diagnostics and repair plus I enjoy delving deep into the design of systems in order to learn from them. It is a bit like Repair Vs Research and Research is not always very labour time efficient! Alex has identified the thermal imaging camera as a time and labour saving device that assists him greatly in some of his repairs. This is why I have previously detailed his videos in my PCB thermal analysis thread. He has shown the strengths of thermal imaging technology when searching for the source of over-current situations in modern electronics. The time he saves tracking down a tiny anonymous shorted MLC is time he can spend making more profit repairing other ‘patients’. With this in mind, the Budget thermal camera can actually pay for itself in a very obvious positive effect on some repair times 

Fraser

[Helix70]

Thing that annoys me about him is that he gives up when it gets a bit hard, and will only complete a repair if he can do it quickly. That's just a waste of time for the customer, and I can't believe he does it when on camera!

[zzattack]

I think his videos are more often than not akin to "feel good entertainment". Nice variety of expensive devices coming in, obvious symptoms (ripped connector, pulled traces) or simple diagnosis (shorted mosfet vs. thermal cam is almost like a cheat code!), clean soldering work, usually with a compatible donor in the shop to grab the replacement component from, and a steep profit margin. Throw in some no-fix videos every now and then to remain genuine. It's a great formula and I enjoy most of his videos.

The lengthier failed repair videos do set him apart from e.g. Rossman (and many others these days). If it wasn't the first mosfet, find another one that's bad. Try something similar elsewhere on the board. Then if that doesn't work, decide that the time vs. profit scale is sliding and we have to call it quits. I can't recall seeing him open a schematic diagram or trace out a circuit, so the depth of his investigation is not quite satisfying. I'm inclined to agree though that from a business aspect, he's making the right decisions. With the piles of devices arriving for him, it's a no-brainer to move on to the next repair with a missing HDMI port and 95% chance of success/pay than to sink another minute into a 50/50 repair.

Another aspect of his videos that I really like is his smart use of (often new) tools. Stuff like holding the soldering braid with SMT tweezers for enourmous heat transfer, or the review of 15 different PCB holders and selecting a definite winner which is then offered in his shop. I've bought a ton in pursuit of the perfect tweezers, and have strolled aliexpress for useful repair tools for ages. But nowadays, if he says something's good, I'm inclined to trust him and am likely to grab it from his shop along with the next amtech flux order I put in

Oh, and he really needs to properly solder ground pads on large connectors if he wants to claim better than factory!!

[Fraser]

I gave up on Rossman since he moved to bigger premises. Last I saw, he was very dismissive of thermal camera use in fault tracing and that was a pity. He was still preferring to cover components in IPA to see where it evaporated quickest. I may have to take another look at his channel as I used to enjoy his more involved repairs. As has been stated, Alex is a self taught repair tech with micro-soldering skills. He limits how deep he dives into a repair in order to maintain throughput for his business. Alex and Louis have somewhat different approaches to the repair business and they live in very different locations. I do recall Louis saying that he does not repair mobile phones because he can charge a far higher fee for repairing a MacBook (~$700 IIRC) when the time needed to repair the phone could be the same. Alex will have a look at all manner of products so we get a nice range of videos to watch  I had never heard of the Diesel Tuning units before seeing Alex fixed a few ! Then there are the various car key fobs, video cards and Nintendo Switch units. Alex has stated that he has no interest in replacing BGA processors as the time it takes exceeds what he is willing to invest in a repair. When you hear how many GPU cards he has awaiting attention, this does make sense. He was claiming a 50% successful repair rate on GPU cards and I suspect his thermal camera and tests quickly identified dead GPU BGA processors in many of the ‘no fix’ units as they are often highly stressed or killed by failed MOSFET’s. I do find it interesting to see Alex’s interpretation of ‘hot spots’ on PCB’s but wish he used a close-up lens as that would make the imagery far clearer.

[Fraser]

Just took a brief look at Louis Rossmann’s Channel video list. Seems he still does not like thermal cameras ! His channel has changed so much since I last looked at it. Full of ‘social’  stuff and lots of non electronic repair videos. It did not make me want to re-subscribe 

Video from 2 months ago …. Louis using a thermal camera at the 34 minute point and realising that they show a situation he would not expect to find with his usual testing methods….

https://youtu.be/IvyG0EcKQPE

He has the visible light camera overlay active in this video …… yuk! I prefer decent resolution pure thermal as the overlay just confuses the image, especially if there is parallax error present. From memory the thermal camera he is using is 160 x 120 pixels with a fixed operating height.

I did watch that video referenced above and ….  I preferred the earlier videos and presentation style at his old shop.

[zzattack]

That's about as great an advertorial for using thermal imaging for fault location that you can find!
Yes, his channel focus has... diverted. Well, watching the umpteenth macbook repair eventually loses its charm anyway. I haven't followed either for quite a while now.

[Andrew LB]

The price of these budget thermal cameras appears to vary quite a bit at the moment. Aliexpress offer significant discounts on the claimed $440 normal price tag. In the UK the price from China is just under £300 delivered and including VAT.

You honestly think the MSRP is $440? I've spent enough years dealing with Asian companies and know how their prices work. Everything is always on huge sale to make customers who aren't smart enough to know you can deal even more so they feel they got a good price. It's just how they roll. Nothing wrong with it though.

NorthridgeFIx is a business however and he is offering the units from stock in the USA so it is to be expected that he has a mark-up on them. Some buyers want to purchase from a USA based supplier so might be happy with the price, especially if they are a business as I suspect a US to US purchase may be simpler for their accounts ? There is also the issue of a USA warranty as a faulty camera would be returnable to NorthridgeFIX as opposed to China.

Yeah, he's probably paying around $220/per unit and considering im guessing his business is in Northridge, California.... i'm sure most of you have heard, but it's REALLY expensive to live here. Like stupid expensive. So i definitely can't knock the guy for trying to make a buck. In fact, i may just order it from him since my biggest fear is having an issue out of the box and having to send something back to China. This way i can just drive up the 405 and exit Devonshire, and hand it to him. lol. 

Even $400 is a pretty good price for what a UTi260B offers the repair tech in terms of fast diagnosis of a laptop motherboard short diagnosis and repair. I suspect the professional tech could recover the cost of the camera quite quickly in terms of repair throughput and delivery from a USA supplier introduces that efficiency improvement sooner than ordering from China ?

Point taken. II didn't realize at first he was literally less than an hour drive from me. The fact alone that i could have it in hand in a day as opposed to waiting at least a month for the slow boat makes it a good deal.  I'm still weighing my options right now but this is the model i'm most likely to buy. Gotta finish the project i'm currently doing, wiring my entire house with Cat6A. House is 2 story and built on a slab, so its a pain.

[Andrew LB]

Just took a brief look at Louis Rossmann’s Channel video list. Seems he still does not like thermal cameras ! His channel has changed so much since I last looked at it. Full of ‘social’  stuff and lots of non electronic repair videos. It did not make me want to re-subscribe 

Yeah. Louis has experienced as a New Yorker what many of us here in California have gone through this past two years, and that's an out of control authoritarian government  that has bankrupted nearly 1/3 of all single location small businesses while focusing on everything other than helping those citizens living in their state. I hear its 10x worse for a lot of Aussies though.

[Helix70]

Just took a brief look at Louis Rossmann’s Channel video list. Seems he still does not like thermal cameras ! His channel has changed so much since I last looked at it. Full of ‘social’  stuff and lots of non electronic repair videos. It did not make me want to re-subscribe 

Yeah. Louis has experienced as a New Yorker what many of us here in California have gone through this past two years, and that's an out of control authoritarian government  that has bankrupted nearly 1/3 of all single location small businesses while focusing on everything other than helping those citizens living in their state. I hear its 10x worse for a lot of Aussies though.

Don't watch so much Fox News. Us Aussies are fine thanks.

[Fraser]

Alex of NorthridgeFIX is now selling the Macro lens adapter for the UTi260B. He has produced a video of it in use if anyone wants to see its effectiveness for PCB work. No idea of its price but for our US A based members it may be more convenient than ordering from China. Other UTi260B close-up lens adapter designs are available to print yourself and the imaging performance will be the same or very similar, depending upon lens quality.

https://youtu.be/BNQJ77wqYSA

A small side note…. In my comments on Alex’s channel I have tried to steer people towards the EEVBlog thermal imaging forum for thermal imaging information but it would appear that Alex deletes any such posts in his comments. It is probably poor YouTube commenting etiquette on my part though ! His channel, his rules

Fraser

[Fraser]

Just found the NorthridgeFIX listing for the close-up lens adapter. He is asking $48.95 for it

https://northridgefix.com/?s=uni-t&post_type=product

I have no connection to NorthridgeFIX or the products he sells so please do your own due diligence before buying.

Fraser

[CANUK]

Even after 10 minutes powered on, is it normal that FFC is activated every 10-11 seconds?

[Paw85]

It can be normal at startup for the calibration to happen quite frequently, but the interval should get longer as the sensor approach the correct operating temperature.

[CANUK]

Yes I read this entire thread and Fraser's answer about FFC. However, FFC is applied so frequently (every 10-11 sec) even after 10 minutes of usage. I have the impression that this time value is hard coded in the software. I'm wondering if I got a faulty camera and if other people have the same issue ?

[Fraser]

The FFC period is normally staged or fully dynamic.

At first start, the camera firmware initiates a FFC event at short intervals while the microbolometer is coming up to normal operating temperature. That operating temperature is the point of thermal equilibrium where the thermal energy being produced in the Microbolometer and its dissipation into its surroundings become equal and stable (within limits). Once thermal equilibrium has occurred and the imaging core is at operating temperature (approx 32C) the camera firmware increases the interval between FFC events to approx 120 Seconds, or longer. Some cameras have a set period once at operating temperature, whilst others may employ dynamic FFC that responds to changes in the Microbolometer die temperature and ambient temperature changes. These dynamic FFC period cameras sometimes extend the period between FFC events if the cores temperature stability is good. There are cores, such as those from Seek Thermal, that employ a short interval between FFC events whilst operating. This is done to counter temperature drift in the Microbolometer. As already stated, an interval between FFC events is commonly 120 Seconds or longer.

If a camera is carrying out FFC events often when compared to other cameras of the same model, it likely has an issue with its Microbolometer temperature stability or the ambient temperature sensor and this is triggering the FFC response to such in an attempt to maintain measurement accuracy. What is the temperature measurement accuracy and stability like ?

Fraser