Author Topic: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair  (Read 2494 times)

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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2021, 06:44:55 pm »
OK, time for me to present two cameras that look to have had some thought put into their design to make then versatile. They appear to be suitable for both PCBA Thermal Analysis and thermal imaging in general applications in the lab or mobile.

I should state that I have no in depth knowledge of either camera and have yet to test them so please understan that this is a comment on their physical design alone.

First the Quianli Supercam X

This camera is a similar format and mounting to my visible light USB camera that was used for video microscope work on mobile phones. It is simple and gets the job done. Note the incorporation of a tripod screw mount in the end of the cameras head arm. Good to see as it enables the camera head to be mounted on many photographic mounting and support accessories  :-+ The camera has nice clean lines and is intended to serve the mobile phone repair industry at reasonable cost. The camera has manual focus so the working distance is set on the stand and then the camera focussed for best image. As stated, I cannot comment on image quality or software performance.

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« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 03:43:16 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2021, 07:01:28 pm »
Now the CA-10 from Dianyang Technology. This camera has only just been released so I know little about it beyond what I have read on the internet. It shows promise  :-+ I will be fortunate enough to be test a CA-10 soon and report on my epxerience.

The stand is more complex than that of the Supercam X as it incorporates both course and fine height adjustments. The camera head is similarly compact to that of the Supercam X but I prefer the A-10 head design. The CA-10 camera incorporates a manual focus lens and the head mounting tube has a tripod thread in the end which is good to see. The base plate appears to have two mounting position options for the upright tube. These offer 'portrait' and 'landscape' base orientations. A neat design and all looks to be of excellent build quality. I look forward to testing this camera.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 11:47:26 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2021, 08:25:16 pm »
Spreadsheet based 'spot size' calculator for anyone who wants one  :)
(the area that one pixel sees on the target at a stated distance)

https://www.homershams.co.nz/site/homersham/files/Downloads/Spot_Size_2014.xlsx

Entering details of the Supercam X and a viewing distance of 20mm provides a figure of 0.1mm per pixel at the target. That is to say a 0201 SMD resistor (0.6mm x 0.3mm) can have up to 18 pixels viewing it in a scene.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 08:38:13 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2021, 09:15:41 pm »
I have been looking for a suiatable articulated arm to hold a PCBA analaysis camera and found one quite quickly. From what I have read the parallel arm type camera booms are more stable than the 'Gooseneck' flexible arm type. The parallel arm boom type does need space in which to manouvre however. The price in the UK from Amazon is ~£30. I will also look for a Gooseneck type that has good reviews.

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neewer-Adjustable-Desktop-Suspension-Logitech-Black/dp/B07C3PDQ93/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Neewer+Adjustable+Desktop+Suspension+Boom&qid=1623100497&sr=8-4

Fraser
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 10:06:36 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Bill W

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2021, 10:57:11 pm »
Looks just like the Anglepoise lamp mechanics

Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2021, 12:13:26 am »
Indeed, a well known and copied design…but the original anglepoise lamp was a balanced affair that needed a certain end load to work correctly. The clones are much more tolerant of load variation  :-+
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Offline bap2703

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2021, 06:58:16 am »
To add a possible mounting solution, if like me you don't need a permanent PCB inspection station but are more doing a bit of this and an bit of that with (thermal) cameras, you might consider a photography tripod.
Be sure to grab one that has the ability to change the angle of the last rod or to mount it upside down.
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2021, 10:49:48 pm »
Well it looks as though the testing of the Dianeyang Technology CA-10 PCBA analysis camera is going to happen. The camera should be with me in a week or so. I have already started gathering details of the unit and I am impressed with the build and have high hopes for the units performance. I can reveal that the CA-10 is not using a 12um pixel microbolometer, but rather the superior 17um pixel size. This is VERY good news as the cheaper 12um pixel based cores remain quite noisy when compared to their bigger pixel cousins. Correction... The CA-10 uses a new generation of Chinese thermal imaging core but does use 12um pixels.

I will start a new thread for the DYT CA-10 review, but if you are looking for an affordable PCBA thermal profiling solution, this could be one to seriously consider. Currently the only available software is for Windows but with a modern Windows tablet PC the system could offer both compactness and portability, without sacrificing performance.

More from me when I have some news.

Fraser
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 11:49:32 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2021, 01:45:00 pm »
The DianYang Technology CA-10 arrived today for its testing and review  :-+

Initial visual inspection shows it to be a VERY nicely designed and built product :-+ :-+
Lots of metal and even ball races rather than plain bushings In the Z axis adjuster. Nylon pads on the end of tube mount locking bolts to protect the tubes paint … nice touches that are good to see.

Review will follow once testing is completed and will have its own thread.

Fraser
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 11:49:54 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2021, 11:03:38 am »
Another nice video from Alex at NorthridgeFIX. He has an HP Spectre that will not start. His thermal camera quickly shows him a component that is dissipating heat …… an MLCC ! That capacitor is tested and found to be shorted. The thermal camera has, on this occasion, provided very useful information to aid the repair in a timely manner. I would not be without a thermal imaging camera for this sort of professional repair work. It can save so much time hunting for the cause of a short on a power rail.


« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 06:30:35 pm by Fraser »
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Offline Hydron

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2021, 11:31:40 am »
I've also spotted shorted MLCCs with a thermal camera before - can't recall if it was an 0201 or a 0402, but it was pretty small, small enough that you couldn't really feel the heat with a quick finger test. Removing the offending cap saved what would have otherwise been an unrepairable (no schematics, full of BGAs etc) item.
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2021, 12:40:38 pm »
I will be reviewing the Dianyang Technology CA-10 camera using some modern electronics to show the size of SMT components that may be imaged. It is often a case of obtaining close enough focus by some means. The CA-10 can focus down to 2cm but I have had it focus closer than that in brief checks  :)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 11:50:14 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2021, 12:53:55 pm »
I am just finishing the review of the Dianyang Technology CA-10 and I am pleased to report that it did not disappoint me. The fast frame rate was nice to have and I found the resolution adequate for the intended task. I will post the full review shortly but thought I would update this thread first. If I was working in a PCBA repair or R&D role, I would buy a thermal imaging camera to assist me in my work. The CA-10 is a dedicated tool for PCBA analysis and would be high on my list of desirable tools for PCBA work. The CA-10 uses one of the new VOx based cores on the market and I found this superior to both FLIR Lepton and Seek Thermal cores. This is a very good development for affordable thermal imaging without sacrificing too much performance  :-+

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« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 11:50:32 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2021, 11:04:06 am »
Alex at NorthridgeFIX has just released another repair video that provides an excellent example of the “power of thermal imaging”. A PWM IC on a HP Spectre laptop is clearly in distress and is identified as the cause of the fault. As Alex says, work SMART, not hard  :-+  Now that thermal imaging cameras, and more specifically, PCBA analysis thermal cameras, are more affordable, there seems little reason for a repair centre not to own one to aid repairs and efficiency of fault tracing. Enjoy the video ……

« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 03:00:41 pm by Fraser »
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Offline PA4TIM

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2021, 01:08:47 pm »
I use a Seek ShotPro for repair. A very handy device. My opinion is, electronics does often not show you the problems. A DMM and scope make the signals visible, but dead parts are open or short. In both cases this gives a difference in temperature. I like it also for safety. If I power up a board that has a short, I immediately see it on the camera before things smoke or burn a hole in the PCB.

I had a scope meter that would not power on, the camera showed a hotspot on the ASIC, turned out there was a bin shorted to ground.

An other thing that is pretty amazing and unexpected, you can see the circuit powering up or waking up. But also if something is standby. When all is cold the temp resolution is good enough to see the current through a trace and you can sometimes even see ICs waking up. If all is cold something that is 1 degrees warmer will be visible.

Used it also to look if all mosfets from a 6kW laser RF delivered about the same power. Handy because measuring inside a RF is difficult and can be pretty dangerous.

I already used a IR thermometer before but a thermal imager is a lot faster.

You need some experience to read the picture due to the color of parts. I use black tape to mask parts if that is needed for better temperature resolution
www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
www.schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl  repair of test and calibration equipment
https://www.youtube.com/user/pa4tim my youtube channel
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2021, 02:22:33 pm »
Whilst testing the CA-10 on a Amazon Fire TV stick I imaged one of the larger IC’s and could clearly see the different areas of the IC die becoming active and then going to sleep. I also saw processors waking up from sleep and then returning to their low power state after a period if inactivity. Some were pulsing like a thermal heartbeat  :-+ It was great to see this level of detail and such could be compared between a known good reference PCBA and a suspect one. The CA-10 operates at 25fps and that also aided the viewing and recording of fast thermal changes within an IC. I had not previously studied IC’s in such detail in the thermal domain and I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw. I will include both images and videos in my review of the CA-10 to show this interesting level of thermal detail in complex IC’s.
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2021, 02:45:33 pm »
I thought three of the videos from my CA-10 testing may be interesting to readers of this thread so I have added them here. They are MP4 format so I have had to ZIP them in order to upload to this forum (MP4 is not a permitted file type here)

The videos show the IC's inside a Raspberry Pie 3 Model B  and an Amazon Firestick TV dongle MK1. The pulsating that is seen within the IC's is thermal activity and the screen captures show the temperature scale and maximum temperature marker moving as the scene changes.

One thermal signature looks like 'heartbeat' whilst the other shows activity in diffrent areas of the IC die. Look at the temperature change that is being detected and imaged. Good stuff  :-+

Enjoy !  :)

First the R-Pi Model 3B......

Fraser
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 02:49:01 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2021, 02:46:19 pm »
Now the Amazon Firestick Mk1........

Pulsing slowly
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 04:27:15 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2021, 02:47:03 pm »
Amazon Firestick MK1 continued....

Showing activity in the IC … watch the whole video to see the sequence of changes at top left and right, then major ‘event’ followed by start of a repeat ‘cycle’
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 04:28:34 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2021, 11:52:02 pm »
The DYT CA-10 PCBA Thermal Analyzer review has been completed and may be found here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-dianyang-technology-ca10-circuit-board-thermal-analyzer-repair-rd/
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Offline Bud

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2021, 03:28:06 am »
This is a Flir E4 shot of a device with a microprocessor short circuited inside. I connected I believe 1V or 2V from a power  supply with current limited to 200mA or something. The MPU nicely glowed.  :-+
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Offline Bud

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2021, 03:31:47 am »
A failed Android cell phone. Did not boot anymore but the battery kept going and something inside was burning.
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2021, 01:19:14 pm »
Another good video from Alex at NorthridgeFIX. Note how useful the thermal imaging capability is to Alex whilst tracking down the source of a short circuit on a laptop motherboard. Injecting a voltage and current limited supply into the shorted supply rail provides the heating of the failed component that is sometimes needed to identify it. Personally I would have used a lower current though ! 7A can damage fine PCB trace. In this case it was a short from a heavy duty PCB trace to ground though so it was relatively safe. Had the short been on a fine, low current, PCB trace the result may have been additional damage though. Care is needed when injecting voltage and current limited supplies into PCB’s. Usually 1A to 2A is more than enough stimulation of a short.

https://youtu.be/EqcP-jyaxt4
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 01:30:48 pm by Fraser »
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Online Fraser

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Re: Use of a Thermal Camera for PCBA thermal profiling and repair
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2021, 01:20:37 pm »
And another good video from Alex at NorthridgeFIX. This time a Dell 15 laptop with a short a long way away from the stressed MOSFET that controls the power rail. As Alex demonstrates, the thermal camera quickly highlights the failure area even though it is on the hidden side of the PCB. My only comment is that I would have repeated the test with the suspect area visible to see whether a failed MLCC was obvious. That said, a failed MLCC can cause the overheating of a component that drives it so some caution is needed before condemning an active component that is getting very hot. Alex chooses to remove the MLCC’s first to cover this possibility and I suspect he has learnt that this is the best approach from his significant repair experience.

https://youtu.be/9L-K6_E_otM

Look at the speed with which Alex was able to track down this fault and also note his comments regarding doing this repair without a current injector and thermal camera. Even a cheap, low resolution thermal camera would be better in this case than no thermal camera  ;) I am fortunate to own the Dianyang CA-10 and FLIR ETS320 so PCBA inspection is quick and easy. A handheld thermal camera is useable for PCBA inspection work but the user needs to hold the camera and this can be inconvenient. Consider buying/making a camera holder to keep your hands free. Close up inspection also requires the camera to have a close focus capability or the use of a ZnSe CO2 laser focus supplemental lens as detailed on this forum.

For information, I bought a small Saxophone stand for my FLIR E4 to hold it at an appropriate angle for PCB work. I tended to use my FLIR E60+ camera on a desk tripod though. It may be worth looking at saxophone stands if you require a camera holder for a camera not equipped with a tripod mount point. I attach a picture of such a saxophone stand for information. They are inexpensive and adaptable to meet your needs  :-+ I paid £12 for my stand, as pictured. The head of the camera rests in the Y yoke and it’s handle rests on the lower support. The camera then looks down at an angle onto the workbench and you can position the PCBA in front of it. No hand shake and both hands are free for probing or camera adjustments.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 01:31:42 pm by Fraser »
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