Author Topic: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay  (Read 12127 times)

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Offline basecaseTopic starter

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2022, 07:59:30 pm »
Thank you for your work on both the schematic and the DVR module. I hope the quality of the recorded footage is as good if not better than that on the display (might have some wear and tear due to usage).

-------------------------------------------

I wasn't able to spend much time working on the camera this week (Lunar New Year and all), but I managed to compile a list of symbols in the hidden menu (see attached).
I tried combining #15 with #16 by themselves to form the full menu icon, but it didn't seem to work. I guessed there will be a lot of trials and errors involved.

Edit: Corrected a mistake in the symbol list. Selecting the next slot automatically populate it with the symbol preceding the previous slot's symbol.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2022, 11:18:44 pm by basecase »
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2022, 09:08:00 pm »
You have done what I did when I got my E380. I was bemused by all the weird symbols !

Now the good news…. Those symbols are just ASCII graphical characters and have no meaning beyond that :)

The debouncing on the buttons is virtually non existent and this makes entering the password somewhat challenging !

Fraser

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Offline cynfab

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2022, 09:17:52 pm »
The debouncing of the switches is done in hardware (see schematic sheet 1) I've looked at the waveforms as they go off th the FPGA and there is no trace of switch bounce. Can't figure out why the menu character selection is so flaky. Maybe it's an attempt to reduce password hacking attempts.

Here are a couple of examples of images captured from the .avi data recorded by my RunCam recorder:
 
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Online Fraser

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2022, 12:39:17 am »
For information….

ISG E380 Hidden Menu contents:

In the Hidden Menu there are two numeric fields at the top of the screen.
The numeric field on the top left is the menu feature number as listed below (1 to 9). This is navigated with the up/down buttons. The number field on the top right is the current setting for a particular menu feature. This number can be changed and confirmed with the up, down and select buttons.

1.   Found set to 0.  Selects Degrees C or Degrees F. 0 = C, 1 = F

2.   Found set to 1.  Enables Zoom X2, X4.  0 = Disabled, 1= Enabled.

3.   Found set to 1. Enables Heat Seek function 0 = Disabled, 1 = Enabled

4.   Found set to 0. A factory engineering mode. Not Used (Pink display if set to 1)

5.   Found set to 0. Provides a précis of the camera build state.

6.   Found set to 00204. Range switching point. Not in any particular units. Factory set.

7.   Found set to 00121. Range switching point. Not in any particular units. Factory set.

8.   Found set to 1. Function not known.

9.   Found set to 0. Enables Freeze frame option. 0 = Disabled, 1 = Enabled. (Causes display glitches if enabled at the same time as Zoom option).


Menu feature 5 produces a précis of the camera build.

My camera displayed the following………


0005.               0000

Prod PAL.           200
0002Z.              170
                        150
SPARTAN 6 HR
NFPA CK.           RX1
                        QY


Fraser





« Last Edit: February 07, 2022, 01:20:42 am by Fraser »
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Offline basecaseTopic starter

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2022, 01:55:43 am »
For information….

ISG E380 Hidden Menu contents:

In the Hidden Menu there are two numeric fields at the top of the screen.
The numeric field on the top left is the menu feature number as listed below (1 to 9). This is navigated with the up/down buttons. The number field on the top right is the current setting for a particular menu feature. This number can be changed and confirmed with the up, down and select buttons.

1.   Found set to 0.  Selects Degrees C or Degrees F. 0 = C, 1 = F

2.   Found set to 1.  Enables Zoom X2, X4.  0 = Disabled, 1= Enabled.

3.   Found set to 1. Enables Heat Seek function 0 = Disabled, 1 = Enabled

4.   Found set to 0. A factory engineering mode. Not Used (Pink display if set to 1)

5.   Found set to 0. Provides a précis of the camera build state.

6.   Found set to 00204. Range switching point. Not in any particular units. Factory set.

7.   Found set to 00121. Range switching point. Not in any particular units. Factory set.

8.   Found set to 1. Function not known.

9.   Found set to 0. Enables Freeze frame option. 0 = Disabled, 1 = Enabled. (Causes display glitches if enabled at the same time as Zoom option).


Menu feature 5 produces a précis of the camera build.

My camera displayed the following………


0005.               0000

Prod PAL.           200
0002Z.              170
                        150
SPARTAN 6 HR
NFPA CK.           RX1
                        QY


Fraser

I think 8 might have something to do with transmitter/DVR mode since these options are mutually exclusive on the XRHR at least.
For the XRHR, tinkering with the service menu WILL require you to split the (missing) green button's wires from the (physical) red button into its own button.
Not strictly true. Doable with some car ignition hot-wiring jank. See the edit.

I came to this conclusion after observing that pressing the red button will both change the option's value AND cycle to the next option, which didn't really make sense.
Needing to press 3 buttons at the same time will be hard, but this is better than messing up the options. Also, remember to write down the default values for 00006 and 00007 in case you accidentally adjusted them.
Lastly, while this still needs to be confirmed, I think the only way to have the settings stick is to cycle through the entire menu to option 9. Exiting from the menu early, be it through holding red+yellow buttons simultaneously or through removing the power, did not save the changes made in the current session for me. Cycling the menu back to 00001 at least once then exit did.

Edit: After realizing that green button shorts to ground when the red switch is pressed (thanks cynfab!), I decided to cut the green wire going into the red switch and manually short it to ground myself. In this case, cutting the green wire at the middle was more preferable than desoldering the end for me since both terminals of the red switch were covered in hot glue and cumbersome to access. Also, one of the red switch's terminals went to ground, so check which one it is and then cut the green wire that is connected to the non-grounded one.

Since both entering and exiting the service menu required all 3 buttons be pressed down simultaneously, the green wire had to remain connected to the red switch some of the time. This led to the use of an alligator clip test wire that maintained continuity when needed, and acted as a big contact point when some shorting was necessary. The overall procedure to access and set the service menu's options boiled down to this:

1. While the camera is off, cut non-ground green wire in half. Strip the ends and connect them with whatever you have handy.
2. Power on camera, punch in the password (contact me) and enter the service menu.
3. Disconnect the green wire's ends. Briefly short the green wire's end that's connected to the main circuit board to the red button's ground terminal to cycle the options.
    Use red and yellow buttons to set the desired values.
4. Reach 00009 then cycle the options to 00004. Connect the green wire's ends again.
5. Press and hold red and yellow buttons simultaneously to exit the menu.
    Failure to time the press shouldn't affect 00004 and 00005's settings, so these are pretty much the only safe options to exit the menu from.
6. Restart the camera.

Album of the setup and the menu options.


« Last Edit: February 07, 2022, 06:09:06 am by basecase »
 
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Offline cynfab

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2022, 04:38:50 am »
Confirmed for the most part, with separate s switches I can get through all but #9. I can enable zoom and change from C to F and back, Heat seek was already enabled and changing 4 to a 1 made the screen pink.On power cycle C/F stuck, as did zoom & heat seek.

6 = 204
7 = 121
8 = 255

Looks great, Thanks to Fraser & basecase!!
 
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Offline basecaseTopic starter

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2022, 05:18:26 am »
Thanks a bunch for reporting the default values of 6 7 and 8! I was really concerned that I messed up the values on mine.
A note on 8: I think 255 was just a display bug since it initially showed that for me until I modified it. After that it just became either 00001 or 00000. Kept mine at 00001 in case this enables more pins on the connectors.

Edit: 8 is bugging me out a bit here. Enabling it caused a green cross in a square to appear at the bottom left corner of the screen. I have no idea what this meant.
The K1000 and E380 operating manuals both have example images with this cross, but neither one explained what this was. I pointed the camera at a soldering iron, and it still showed pretty much the same thing as it did before the service menu was messed with. If anything, it felt like the camera took longer to load the zoom and hot spot tracking functions after 8 was enabled.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2022, 06:47:47 am by basecase »
 

Offline Bill W

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2022, 11:39:35 am »
Thanks a bunch for reporting the default values of 6 7 and 8! I was really concerned that I messed up the values on mine.
A note on 8: I think 255 was just a display bug since it initially showed that for me until I modified it. After that it just became either 00001 or 00000. Kept mine at 00001 in case this enables more pins on the connectors.

Edit: 8 is bugging me out a bit here. Enabling it caused a green cross in a square to appear at the bottom left corner of the screen. I have no idea what this meant.
The K1000 and E380 operating manuals both have example images with this cross, but neither one explained what this was. I pointed the camera at a soldering iron, and it still showed pretty much the same thing as it did before the service menu was messed with. If anything, it felt like the camera took longer to load the zoom and hot spot tracking functions after 8 was enabled.

That is the NFPA 'Plus Mode' symbol.  It means something is enabled that requires additional training to operate.  As Fraser notes this is 'freeze frame' that would be a 'complicated' option as a fixed image is not basic level NFPA compliant.

Some other camera functions may also appear strange to comply with NFPA 1801 - such as 'revert to basic mode' if you press the green button when running (for that power cycle).


Bill


 
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Offline Bill W

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2022, 11:47:01 am »

Lastly, while this still needs to be confirmed, I think the only way to have the settings stick is to cycle through the entire menu to option 9. Exiting from the menu early, be it through holding red+yellow buttons simultaneously or through removing the power, did not save the changes made in the current session for me. Cycling the menu back to 00001 at least once then exit did.


On a full 3 button camera all 3 buttons should save and exit, as should power remove.
What gets you out without a save is no buttons for > 10 seconds

Bill

Offline basecaseTopic starter

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2022, 03:39:03 pm »
Thanks a bunch for reporting the default values of 6 7 and 8! I was really concerned that I messed up the values on mine.
A note on 8: I think 255 was just a display bug since it initially showed that for me until I modified it. After that it just became either 00001 or 00000. Kept mine at 00001 in case this enables more pins on the connectors.

Edit: 8 is bugging me out a bit here. Enabling it caused a green cross in a square to appear at the bottom left corner of the screen. I have no idea what this meant.
The K1000 and E380 operating manuals both have example images with this cross, but neither one explained what this was. I pointed the camera at a soldering iron, and it still showed pretty much the same thing as it did before the service menu was messed with. If anything, it felt like the camera took longer to load the zoom and hot spot tracking functions after 8 was enabled.

That is the NFPA 'Plus Mode' symbol.  It means something is enabled that requires additional training to operate.  As Fraser notes this is 'freeze frame' that would be a 'complicated' option as a fixed image is not basic level NFPA compliant.

Some other camera functions may also appear strange to comply with NFPA 1801 - such as 'revert to basic mode' if you press the green button when running (for that power cycle).


Bill

Thank you for the explanation. It explained why both the zoom and hot spot tracking features weren't available when that cross isn't there.
It makes sense to keep camera operation as simple as possible so that untrained users won't have to fight their cameras during work.

For the Elite XRHR, I found that after powering on the camera, holding the yellow button pressed for a few seconds will enable "Plus Mode." To get rid of the cross but still keep "Plus Mode," hold the red button pressed until "TURN OFF ABORTED" will do the job.


Lastly, while this still needs to be confirmed, I think the only way to have the settings stick is to cycle through the entire menu to option 9. Exiting from the menu early, be it through holding red+yellow buttons simultaneously or through removing the power, did not save the changes made in the current session for me. Cycling the menu back to 00001 at least once then exit did.


On a full 3 button camera all 3 buttons should save and exit, as should power remove.
What gets you out without a save is no buttons for > 10 seconds

Bill

Didn't work for me until I cycled the menu all the way to 00001 again. I wonder if this was due to my unit using older/different firmware or not. I'm aware that the service menu password was different on the 3 button camera.
 

Offline Bill W

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2022, 12:19:02 pm »
de." To get rid of the cross but still keep "Plus Mode," hold the red button pressed until "TURN OFF ABORTED" will do the job.


On a full 3 button camera all 3 buttons should save and exit, as should power remove.
What gets you out without a save is no buttons for > 10 seconds

Bill

Didn't work for me until I cycled the menu all the way to 00001 again. I wonder if this was due to my unit using older/different firmware or not. I'm aware that the service menu password was different on the 3 button camera.

Could be.  While I was told the instructions by someone VERY familiar with the firmware, it was a time when NFPA1801 was standardising camera behaviour yet local sales & distribution waned to customise standard products and ISG not wanting to let out the factory software (or write a cut down one). 
That may have gone through several iterations. 

The odd bit with your camera is that one NFPA requirement is that the power button MUST be green.
Yours is not
Equally, you'd only expect an NFPA plus symbol on NFPA camera suggesting some kind of hybrid build, or making users pay up a lot for making the red button green and an NFPA sticker.


Bill

Offline Bill W

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2022, 12:22:54 pm »

Thank you for the explanation. It explained why both the zoom and hot spot tracking features weren't available when that cross isn't there.
It makes sense to keep camera operation as simple as possible so that untrained users won't have to fight their cameras during work.


To clarify, are you saying the NFPA-plus symbol appears:
  • Only when zoomed
  • When zoom function is enabled, whether zoomed or not
  • Separately selected before you can enable the other functions

Does a brief push of your red button disable the zoom / freeze and clear the NFPA-plus ?


Offline basecaseTopic starter

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2022, 02:46:30 pm »
I don't think ISG intended to sell the XRHR as officially NFPA-compliant though. The product listing's archive didn't claim the thing to be, but ISG did advertised that the E380N was compliant. I think ISG just used the same/similar firmwares for E380/E380N/XRHR/X380.

NFPA-plus symbol only appeared when it was activated/selected by long-pressing the yellow button then releasing it. Zoom/Hot spot tracking would not work until then.
As far as I know once the plus symbol appeared, all the advanced functions would still work regardless of whether the symbol was there or not (i.e. couldn't disable the functions once unlocked).

« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 02:50:59 pm by basecase »
 

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2022, 07:06:36 am »
The ADV7179 video encoder takes the FPGA's CCIR-656 4:2:2 8-bit parallel output and spits out analog video outputs. cynfab found 3 video channels in total which matched up with the datasheet. Now I guess what's left is figuring out which pin of the samtec connector is mapped to which line of the parallel output and then find a DVR solution that takes CCIR-656 directly if it existed.
 

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #65 on: February 14, 2022, 12:06:45 am »
Some screen grabs off video recorded by my RunCam.
 
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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2022, 04:33:56 pm »
Well I took the weekend off to go to LA, Scoping stuff out later tonight and then starting work on the re-engineering of the FPA ribbon cable for custom units (mine doglegs a little and I want a longer straight through unit)
 

Offline Logan

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2022, 01:59:59 pm »
Hi guys.
Is the hidden service menu only exist on the 384x288 models? Or also available to the 320x240 XR(non-HR)?
Thanks.
 

Offline basecaseTopic starter

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2022, 03:10:52 pm »
Maybe. Even if it existed, I don't think you can change much since the Elite XR didn't have any software-configurable feature like the XRHR. Based on the 2010 operating manual and the
brochure, the Elite XR only come with *F and NTSC video output. There's no *C/PAL variant as far as I concern.
 
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Offline cejoba

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2022, 04:48:36 pm »
Just a reminder, if anyone wants to get the ISG XR (not with HR), save your money.
I just got one for cheap and now I have to get rid of it.
They show almost nothing when you point it to normal environment, only work when there's something really warm in FOV (like your hand).
I don't think it's my unit faulty, look up some sample image on ebay and see what I mean.
 

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2022, 05:46:36 pm »
We do have to bear in mind that ex fire service cameras may have been removed from service due to faults so buying used ones are a risk. I have not previously heard of the ISG XR being a poor performer, but then I do not know what you are trying to do with it. Fire Fighting cameras are normally fully automatic and provide the best available image settings for SAR tasks. It could well be that the XR is not best configured for your tasking. The HR may be an advance in both technology and configuration and so suits your needs better.
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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2022, 05:53:12 pm »
This battered old ISG Elite XR looks to still produce a decent image. Look at the background building detail, such as the fire door crash bar.

(Image taken from here: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/452077339167914/ )
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 05:57:04 pm by Fraser »
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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2022, 06:18:13 pm »
cejoba,

I just checked my archives and see that I own the ITC microbolometer based core from an ISG Elite XR camera  :) I do not recall being disappointed with its performance. There was another version of this core that used a different microbolometer brand and that may behave differently, but I would be surprised if the performance was much different.

Take a look here :

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/mystery-imaging-core-fraser-has-been-buying-toys-again-)/msg2799504/#msg2799504

Your camera does not have the high temperature diaphragm permanently engaged does it ? Such would severely reduce the camera sensitivity.

Fraser

« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 06:56:47 pm by Fraser »
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Offline cejoba

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2022, 06:41:40 pm »
It could well be that the XR is not best configured for your tasking. The HR may be an advance in both technology and configuration and so suits your needs better.
I wasn't comparing it to HR, even my BST S300 is much better.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/mystery-imaging-core-fraser-has-been-buying-toys-again-)/msg2799504/#msg2799504
My core looks the same as yours.

However, in your second post in that thread, that lens is different from the stock lens, the stock lens as shown in your post #21 is rather slow, definitely not f0.8.

Your camera does not have the high temperature diaphragm permanently engaged does it ?
No, I cannot see any indicator shown for that.
 

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Re: Used ISG Infrasys Elite XRHR Firefighting Thermal Camera on Ebay
« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2022, 06:48:52 pm »
Hi,

The high temperature range diaphragm is shown n my post on the core. It is similar in appearance to the FFC flag but has a small hole in it to reduce the aperture, and so sensitivity. The FFC flag is still present. The two flags and solenoids are mounted on opposite sides of the lens mount area. I am just wondering of a fault has caused the reduced aperture flag to be permanently positioned in the optical path. There would not be an indication on the display as the ca,era would not be seeing a temperature that exceeds the high temperature range threshold. It would be worth checking if you have not already done so. With my cores high temperature range flag engaged the image is very flat indeed and responds as you describe.

Fraser
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 06:54:20 pm by Fraser »
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