Author Topic: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal  (Read 743836 times)

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Offline eee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1825 on: May 14, 2015, 08:47:56 am »
finally picked up a seek after needing it to measure temps for a project. After all the negative comments on here I really wasn't keeping my hopes up high, but I'm actually quite surprised at the images it produces (to the point where I can't see why there were so many complaints). Am I missing something here, or has something been improved in the app software version (I've only started using it a few weeks ago so never experienced the earlier versions).

Here are some sample shots - not hard to make out that's a laptop for example...
 

Offline eee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1826 on: May 14, 2015, 08:49:50 am »
(what's with the images being rotated -90 degrees? They're in the correct orientation on my laptop...)
 

Offline eee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1827 on: May 14, 2015, 08:57:42 am »
I'm surprised nobody sells a short micro usb adaptor that is there to simply change the direction of the port orientation. I mean, you'd sell plenty of these. Seek thermal and the next Flir One will need them. It's going to be nothing more than a female micro usb, a male micro usb, a short run of wire between the two (something long enough to twist)  and a plastic shell,  or even more common--a rubberized coating. Just need a machined mold, then mount and inject the rubber. Any cable factory is already setup to do this is massive runs. Sell them for $5 a piece. Seek and Flir would buy them by the thousands. Walk away rich.

+1000000!

Couldn't believe how hard it was to find a USB micro to USB micro cable. Ended up getting this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171761135081

though it doesn't work! I can charge things though it fine, but when connected to the phone and seek, the phone can't see the seek! I've also noticed the phone charges a lot slower through that cable than when connected directly (with both connections, the phone still reports Charing (AC) - though the battery graph shows a massive difference in the gradient at which it's charging).

The next thing I will try is a standard phone charging cable with this on the other end: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261863844960

fingers crossed!
 

Offline rjardina

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1828 on: May 15, 2015, 10:31:15 am »
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261863844960

the one you posted and

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Micro-USB-Male-To-Micro-USB-Female-Cable-USB-Female-OTG-Adapter-Y-Splitter-/271840335225?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4af25579.

will allow you to use the seek camera and charge only if your hardware and software supports usb OTG while charging at the same time.

My sony z3 for example has USB OTG but will NOT allow me to charge at the same time. my Nvidia Shield portable on the other hand will allow me to charge and use USB OTG at the same time.

Even if you get the correct adapters your device may not allow you to do it in the first place.

  :blah:
 

Offline efahrenholz

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1829 on: May 15, 2015, 06:45:14 pm »
I'm surprised nobody sells a short micro usb adaptor that is there to simply change the direction of the port orientation. I mean, you'd sell plenty of these. Seek thermal and the next Flir One will need them. It's going to be nothing more than a female micro usb, a male micro usb, a short run of wire between the two (something long enough to twist)  and a plastic shell,  or even more common--a rubberized coating. Just need a machined mold, then mount and inject the rubber. Any cable factory is already setup to do this is massive runs. Sell them for $5 a piece. Seek and Flir would buy them by the thousands. Walk away rich.

+1000000!

Couldn't believe how hard it was to find a USB micro to USB micro cable. Ended up getting this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171761135081

though it doesn't work! I can charge things though it fine, but when connected to the phone and seek, the phone can't see the seek! I've also noticed the phone charges a lot slower through that cable than when connected directly (with both connections, the phone still reports Charing (AC) - though the battery graph shows a massive difference in the gradient at which it's charging).

The next thing I will try is a standard phone charging cable with this on the other end: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261863844960

fingers crossed!

Unfortunately, what you purchased was a charge only adapter. It's cheaper and quicker to sell usb cables without the wires connected for data lines because most people buying an adapter are doing so to charge phones and usb devices. The adapter you now humbly own only changes the plug type to a microusb. It's deceitful based on the listing saying it is a full spec usb 2.0 plug, but nowhere do they clearly mention it as an otg compatible cable.

OTG cables and the whole spec is utterly stupid. You can thank the cell phone industry. Basically there are 5 pins in the plug of a microusb cable. Pin 4 is unconnected and by grounding pin 5 to 4, it becomes an OTG cable. It tells the device you are plugging into to act as the host. Since cell phones can be a host for devices or be a mass storage device, grounding the 4th pin tells the phone to host a connection, while leaving it disconnected tells it to act as a mass storage device for a computer. This is the only time I've seen it used in this manner. Most phones should have the ability to enable mass storage I believe the SEEK needs the 4th pin grounded in order to confirm it isn't acting as a host, even if a host attempts a handshake.

Like I said, makes no sense.
 

Offline artag

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1830 on: May 15, 2015, 09:47:11 pm »
You can get a short micro-B-to-micro-B cable with one end configured for OTG here http://hakshop.myshopify.com/collections/accessory/products/micro-to-micro-otg?variant=211796287

I got one and use it to connect an x-protolab  http://www.gabotronics.com/development-boards/xmega-xprotolab.htm to a google nexus tablet. Previously, I needed an Micro-B-OTG-to-female-A adapter plugged into a male-A-to-micro-B cable.


 

Offline Sigmoid

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1831 on: May 18, 2015, 05:13:33 am »
Guys, this forum thread is probably longer than the Bible, and goes off on so many tangents, so please don't hold it against me that I'm not going to read it all. :)

So I have basically two questions...

The first, how does the Seek Thermal compare to the FLIR One, and is it suitable as an actual thermal imaging tool in electronics work - as opposed to a "widget", which IMO the FLIR One is?

From reading the specs, and the forums on the FLIR One, it would seem that as expected from a market leader, FLIR has gone FAR, FAR out of its way to make sure the FLIR One never becomes anything close to a potential competitor for their >$1000 units, or even their $700 Lepton-based handheld. Artificial noise (come on, really?!), limited thermal range (to make sure it's a toy not a tool), and all the other crap.

The Seek on the other hand has a wide temp range, and a much greater resolution in the thermal sensor itself.
However, some people here are surprisingly (shockingly) appreciative of FLIR and rapping on Seek, so what exactly is up? Does the comment about the badly designed optics casing apply to both models, or only the long-distance version?

Another question is that back at the beginning of the thread, people were talking about a price of $199. Well the Seek Thermal retails for $249, BOTH the Android and iOS models! So what is it? Did they RAISE the price (that would be the first time I saw something like this happen), or is this a second version that's more expensive?
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1832 on: May 18, 2015, 05:22:10 am »
The $199 was an introductory price when they launched.

As for the rest I'm happy with my Seek, but others prefer the FLIR One because of the MSX tech (mixing visual and thermal camera) and they have another one lined up but have not heard any details on that one yet.
 

Offline eee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1833 on: May 18, 2015, 07:32:21 am »
I'm surprised nobody sells a short micro usb adaptor that is there to simply change the direction of the port orientation. I mean, you'd sell plenty of these. Seek thermal and the next Flir One will need them. It's going to be nothing more than a female micro usb, a male micro usb, a short run of wire between the two (something long enough to twist)  and a plastic shell,  or even more common--a rubberized coating. Just need a machined mold, then mount and inject the rubber. Any cable factory is already setup to do this is massive runs. Sell them for $5 a piece. Seek and Flir would buy them by the thousands. Walk away rich.

+1000000!

Couldn't believe how hard it was to find a USB micro to USB micro cable. Ended up getting this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171761135081

though it doesn't work! I can charge things though it fine, but when connected to the phone and seek, the phone can't see the seek! I've also noticed the phone charges a lot slower through that cable than when connected directly (with both connections, the phone still reports Charing (AC) - though the battery graph shows a massive difference in the gradient at which it's charging).

The next thing I will try is a standard phone charging cable with this on the other end: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261863844960

fingers crossed!

Unfortunately, what you purchased was a charge only adapter. It's cheaper and quicker to sell usb cables without the wires connected for data lines because most people buying an adapter are doing so to charge phones and usb devices. The adapter you now humbly own only changes the plug type to a microusb. It's deceitful based on the listing saying it is a full spec usb 2.0 plug, but nowhere do they clearly mention it as an otg compatible cable.

OTG cables and the whole spec is utterly stupid. You can thank the cell phone industry. Basically there are 5 pins in the plug of a microusb cable. Pin 4 is unconnected and by grounding pin 5 to 4, it becomes an OTG cable. It tells the device you are plugging into to act as the host. Since cell phones can be a host for devices or be a mass storage device, grounding the 4th pin tells the phone to host a connection, while leaving it disconnected tells it to act as a mass storage device for a computer. This is the only time I've seen it used in this manner. Most phones should have the ability to enable mass storage I believe the SEEK needs the 4th pin grounded in order to confirm it isn't acting as a host, even if a host attempts a handshake.

Like I said, makes no sense.
You're right, it doesn't make any sense!! Didn't know I need a PhD to connect some accessories to my phone. Thanks for the info though, much appreciated. I can only see 4 pins on the actually connector, is the 5th the metal surrounding of the connector?
Also which side needs to be grounded and which side needs the pin to be unconnected?  :-//



You can get a short micro-B-to-micro-B cable with one end configured for OTG here http://hakshop.myshopify.com/collections/accessory/products/micro-to-micro-otg?variant=211796287

I got one and use it to connect an x-protolab  http://www.gabotronics.com/development-boards/xmega-xprotolab.htm to a google nexus tablet. Previously, I needed an Micro-B-OTG-to-female-A adapter plugged into a male-A-to-micro-B cable.
The only issue is that I'm in the UK - thanks for the links though! :)
 

Offline eee

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1834 on: May 18, 2015, 07:55:37 am »
Guys, this forum thread is probably longer than the Bible, and goes off on so many tangents, so please don't hold it against me that I'm not going to read it all. :)

So I have basically two questions...

The first, how does the Seek Thermal compare to the FLIR One, and is it suitable as an actual thermal imaging tool in electronics work - as opposed to a "widget", which IMO the FLIR One is?

From reading the specs, and the forums on the FLIR One, it would seem that as expected from a market leader, FLIR has gone FAR, FAR out of its way to make sure the FLIR One never becomes anything close to a potential competitor for their >$1000 units, or even their $700 Lepton-based handheld. Artificial noise (come on, really?!), limited thermal range (to make sure it's a toy not a tool), and all the other crap.

The Seek on the other hand has a wide temp range, and a much greater resolution in the thermal sensor itself.
However, some people here are surprisingly (shockingly) appreciative of FLIR and rapping on Seek, so what exactly is up? Does the comment about the badly designed optics casing apply to both models, or only the long-distance version?

Another question is that back at the beginning of the thread, people were talking about a price of $199. Well the Seek Thermal retails for $249, BOTH the Android and iOS models! So what is it? Did they RAISE the price (that would be the first time I saw something like this happen), or is this a second version that's more expensive?
I haven't compared the flir to the seek. I don't have an iDevice so the flir was out of the question. Mine hasn't had any thermal gradient issues that people have talked about on here (maybe the newer .apk fixed that?). The one thing I was wary of was the clarity of the image at short distances, so I picked up one of these as well: www.ebay.com/itm/201341969772

The resulting image is pretty good, I can clearly see what components are heating up and what traces could do with adjusting:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6p-RdH-0NNIWTJ2ZUVuTXRFUnM/view?usp=sharing

The $199 was an introductory price when they launched.

As for the rest I'm happy with my Seek, but others prefer the FLIR One because of the MSX tech (mixing visual and thermal camera) and they have another one lined up but have not heard any details on that one yet.
^ I haven't used it yet(my camera's still facing the wrong way!), but there is a function where you can mix and match, so part normal, and part thermal (depending on how far you drag the divider across). Not the same as MSX though good enough to be able to see what you're pointing it at, e.g.:https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6p-RdH-0NNIWl8xUFVaSnBRRnM/view?usp=sharing



anyone in the UK want to buy one?
 

Offline Lurchbox

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Offline efahrenholz

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1836 on: May 26, 2015, 10:37:01 am »
i want to make one of these:
http://www.smragan.com/2015/02/06/seek-thermal-imager-htc-dna-hack/

Sadly, this is a great example of why a company who produces a usb camera with a fixed plug orientation should provide converters. During testing, how did they not encounter issues with this? I'm aware the camera is built dirt cheap and production costs affect the final cost to the consumer, but they could have mass ordered a cheap adapter from a cable manufacturer and threw it into the box. What does that raise the production cost by? Like 50 cents? Sheesh. Look at video cards. Nvidia and ATI have been throwing in adapters for years. I have cable bundles and vga to dvi adapters up to my eyeballs, but at least they knew people might have an issue sourcing them by themselves. Nobody wants a brand new toy that they cant play with because of a technicality in plug compatibility.
 

Offline jadew

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1837 on: May 29, 2015, 05:36:24 am »
Any idea which one is better for electronics work? The normal version or the XR?
 

Online frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1838 on: May 29, 2015, 06:41:06 am »
XR would be better because you can change focus...
But you could buy "macro" ZnSe lens for 18$...  http://goo.gl/5vkQQg

This is my result with this lens (not sure if this was taken with 100m or 50mm lens):


« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 06:45:01 am by frenky »
 

Offline jadew

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1839 on: May 29, 2015, 06:49:45 am »
That looks great, thank you.
 

Offline efahrenholz

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1840 on: May 29, 2015, 05:50:51 pm »
Guys, this forum thread is probably longer than the Bible, and goes off on so many tangents, so please don't hold it against me that I'm not going to read it all. :)

So I have basically two questions...

The first, how does the Seek Thermal compare to the FLIR One, and is it suitable as an actual thermal imaging tool in electronics work - as opposed to a "widget", which IMO the FLIR One is?

From reading the specs, and the forums on the FLIR One, it would seem that as expected from a market leader, FLIR has gone FAR, FAR out of its way to make sure the FLIR One never becomes anything close to a potential competitor for their >$1000 units, or even their $700 Lepton-based handheld. Artificial noise (come on, really?!), limited thermal range (to make sure it's a toy not a tool), and all the other crap.

The Seek on the other hand has a wide temp range, and a much greater resolution in the thermal sensor itself.
However, some people here are surprisingly (shockingly) appreciative of FLIR and rapping on Seek, so what exactly is up? Does the comment about the badly designed optics casing apply to both models, or only the long-distance version?

Another question is that back at the beginning of the thread, people were talking about a price of $199. Well the Seek Thermal retails for $249, BOTH the Android and iOS models! So what is it? Did they RAISE the price (that would be the first time I saw something like this happen), or is this a second version that's more expensive?

If I were you, and I was in the market for one of either, and can't wait for the release of the next Flir one, the seek is definitely a better value. It does generally perform poorly with regards to noise, and that heavily limits it's minimum tempereture difference it can see, but overall it is a higher resolution. Noise or no noise, resolution is going to be king. You can have excellent sensitivity, down to less than a degree difference between two pixels, but two pixels don't make an image you can interperet.
 

Offline marshallh

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Verilog tips
BGA soldering intro

11:37 <@ktemkin> c4757p: marshall has transcended communications media
11:37 <@ktemkin> He speaks protocols directly.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1842 on: May 29, 2015, 10:01:11 pm »
So the facts are leaking out at last. Some think it is easy for Russia to obtain advanced TIC technology. The truth is a little different. The SEEK would not be considered an advanced technology
The Russians want FLIR FPGAs, and those of similar quality.

Aurora

« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 10:48:58 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline efahrenholz

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1843 on: May 31, 2015, 10:16:37 pm »
I find it comical that Russia can't develop their own microbolometers. They have certainly had more than enough time to tear apart several aquired samples, yet they can't manufacture any of their own. Meanwhile we have little usb phone powered imagers using micro sized arrays. They can't even manufacture a standard array, so they attempt to illegally export them out of our country. Slowly. Using ebay.
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1844 on: June 07, 2015, 12:49:32 pm »
Therm-App just posted a video of the new Therm-App TH on their Youtube channel. Unfortunately I can't find any additional details yet.



Changes that I can see from the video;

1. The case is now red.
2. Comes with PC-based analysis software, presumably similar to FLIR Tools.

Considering the original Therm-App was in a metal case and this appears to be a cheaper red plastic, I'm hoping this means the TH will be cheaper than the original Therm-App. The original is currently $939, so anything cheaper than that but still with the 384x288 sensor would be amazing.
 


Offline -jeffB

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1846 on: June 07, 2015, 03:11:44 pm »
Odd -- it looks like most of the "additional features" on the TH are software functions that could easily be supplied in an update. It's also strange that you can apparently select those additional features (TH) or a higher-frame-rate model (Hz), but not both.

I hope they get it sorted out, and I'd love to see it at a much lower price point, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

Offline encryptededdy

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1847 on: June 07, 2015, 08:35:42 pm »
I wonder what their shipping policies are on the Hz. Hopefully it's not a huge pain to get it shipped.
 

Offline johntra

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1848 on: June 09, 2015, 01:59:29 pm »
Hey guys,
Like Sigmoid, I started reading this thread from the beginning until I saw how many pages it is... :)
So I hope this question hasn't been answered before as I couldn't goggle it out myself:

Is there a thermal camera that can be accessed from a PC for real-time processing? Ideally via USB.
Additional (negotiable) requirements: affordable price and small form factor (so I can attach it to a mobile rig).

The Seek for android has a USB connector but I didn't see anyone managing to hack-up an SDK for it.
Is there a FLIR alternative? or another competitor?
 

Online frenky

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Re: Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal
« Reply #1849 on: June 09, 2015, 02:12:23 pm »
Users on this forum have made several different PC apps for the SeekThermal... All is inside this thread...
 


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